Iraqi Resistance Warns Turks to Keep Off Iraq

The attacks were indeed a gauntlet thrown down to the most secular, modernist, anti-clerical Muslim country. The response ought to be Atatturk-like: give no quarter, show no mercy, take no chances. The only good Islamist radical is a cold, dead one.

Gajendra,

You knowledge of ME and specially Turkey is impressive. However, you write like an Upper Division Clerk of the ministry of foreign affairs. I suggest that you have someone write for you.

PS. Our Foreign Ministry Babu, Karamatullah can write much better than you.

Your knowledge of the area seems quite impressive.

Turkey, to take Samuel Hunington’s words, is a, “torn” country. I think certain people are unnecessarily and overly impressed with it, since it, at one time, “shoved the mullahs into the sea.” However, secularism (or any other ism) in the form of semi-fascism, with weak economic foundations, is usually not a long-term constructive strategy.

Ataturk gets more credit than he deserves, in my opinion. Some of the writings about him, on his treatment and policies towards Kurds and Armenians make sad reading. If they are true, then I would consider him more of a human rights violator than a visionary reformist. Personally, I rate Jinnah much higher than Ataturk.

Turks are involved in too much of a hodge-podge to figure out what is wrong and what it right, and which direction to take their country. They have just become victims of terrorism. Yet their own human rights records against the Kurds is terrible. The military is very secular, but it is also very undemocratic. They are sometimes a fascistly secular country, having banned religious parties, again and again, even after the religious parties won elections. To the extent of even kicking young girls out of universities for wearing scarves. Yet now they are ruled by an outright majority of a religious party. And it is this religious party that has finally neutralized the military’s indulgence in politics. The parent of this religious party, “Rafah,” was initially banned, by the same military, after it had won the highest seats in a previous election.

Turkey doesn’t get along with its Christian neighbors in Greece. And its Muslims neighbors in Iraq. And not only will it not allow its own Kurds their rights, it has vowed to invade Iraq, if Iraqi Kurds get those rights.

It will be interesting to see, which direction Turkey goes in. An un-elected politically active and overly secular military pulling it in one direction, with a democratically elected, overwhelmingly popular, Islamic party, pulling it in the other direction.

Ataturk’s vision may have worked in the short term. But, perhaps the contradictions in his own stances, are only now starting to show up, 80 years later.

so you write that the six turkish jews who were murdered (includinga six year old girl and her grandmother) while in prayer were being punished!! and ignore the ``collateral`` damage of 21 or so turkish muslim who were killed.

and the fact that the turkish governmnet is an elected one, and these thugs whom you admire are trying to override the will of the turkish people by scaring them with bombs.

evil indeed exists in this world. not just in the form of these murderers of innocent people, but of haraamis like you.

Minister`s remarks spark British Muslim fury
Indo-Asian News Service
London, November 22

British Muslim leaders have protested against a minister for his statement that Muslims do not speak out strongly enough against terrorism.

Europe Minister Denis MacShane found himself at the centre of a political maelstrom Friday when he urged British Muslims to follow the ``British way`` of political dialogue and reject Islamist terrorism.

Speaking in his Rotherham constituency a day after the Istanbul bombings, MacShane likened terrorists to Nazis and urged imams and other Muslim leaders to use ``clearer, stronger language`` to speak out against them.


///May be what is needed is contained in the above news item, one of my usual posts on chowk, that the muslims ahve to conemn jihadic killings and say that jihad is not killing of kafirs. It is amazing that after each jihadic killings, the pakistanis and other muslims come up with ideas of fundamental cause of terror, as though there is something other than jihad behind it.

Turkish expert,

At last we have a turkish expert on chowk. Two bombs and the man has declared that it is agaisnt the recognition of israel. Now two more bomb blasts, I am waiting for the expert to come back, it is against the british, against the part britan played in the collapse of ottoman empire. In producing pathetic experts, chowk is second to none.

Why does every one fearr Islam so much? perhaps it MIGHT do some good. democracy and all forms of goverments have not worked so well with us Muslims. perhaps we should try the Caliphate system? :P

haroonelahi #7 are you seriously unaware that the caliphate was the form of government in the middle east for a thousand years?

if you dont like democracy, that is good though: that means you want someone else to tell you what to do. i am in need of a slave to do my bidding (some of them i will turn into eunuchs, as was done in the caliphates). i will be glad to accomodate all of those individuals who do not wish to live in a democracy and would rather follow a caliph like a bunch of eunuchs.

post 7,

I will support taht for pakistan. In the legal system of pakistan, most elements of the book has been puit into practice, the blasphemy laws and honour killings, what is needed next is hand choppings and kalifayet. There is hope for pakistan, when the elites like you can seriously think of kalifayet, and in a way will be the most convincing answer to pakistan ka matlab kys.

Saudi first, now Turkey.

Seems to be home-grown, although details are scarce. No one knows who is doing the attacks, although Western analysts like to invoke Al-Queda, which seems to be more of a terminology for such kind of attackers rather than an actual movement.

After Riyadh attacks, Americans turned towards Saudis and pretty much said ``we told you so``. That is, their ``support`` for foreign militants (...let us put aside the fact that this support began on America`s behalf...) was the ``root cause``. Funny, when same is said to Americans, it`s some how considered improper to mention.

Now, we have attacks in Turkey...a country that was anti-Iraq war but in the end somewhat willing to send troops to Iraq - sort of. Writer is correct in stating these attacks were related to Turkey. My bet is on Kurdish terrorists who want to ensure Turkey stays OUT of northern Iraq...West too busy blaming everything from ozone depletion to DPG (donkey propelled grenade) attacks on ``The Book``.

In both cases though, it shouldn`t be lost on us (those skeptical of American intensions in the region) that attacks in Saudis and Turkey were in fact congruent with American interests. Nothing like turning a population seemingly hostile to your interests like a few attacks of these natures to make it seem that there was a common enemy all this time. And his name was Sadama Bin Laden.

Anyone see Tom Clancy on CNN? I think he looked jealous, because whoever`s writing the script to this show is doing one heck`ve a job....

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First of all, some sarcasm.

It turns out that the recent bomb blasts in Turkey were the work of the Turkish military. The Turkish military was getting concerned about the increasing Islamic sentiment in Turkish politics and need to take steps to stop the so-called Islamization of Turkish politics. As Turkey is interested in joining the European Union, the possiblity of a military coup to change the government was not a politically feasible possibility. Therefore, it was decided that Turkish military would ``stage`` a few terrorist attacks and blame it on Turkish citizens and this way, discredit the Islamic parties in Turkey.

re: Vortex # 10

``Even paranoids have enemies`` - Henry Kissenger

In intelligence gathering, there are three different levels of considering available information: probable, possible, and improable. A good intelligence officer will always consider the three options and in fact, s/he is encouraged to theorize about possibilities that seem as unlikely. There are ``links`` or facts, which may seem as conspiracy theories, but they have to be considered. Good intelligence pre-supposes that everything must be considered before it is presented. The basic rule in intelligence gathering is, which makes it imperative to consider all the possibilities no matter how illogical they seem, is that truth is stranger than fiction.

You are basing your statements on the assumption of ``who benefits`` from all of this and the answer you get, may not gel with the offical truth and once you remove all the possibilities, what is left, no matter how improbale, is most probable explanation.

Ciao

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arjun_m,

Man, read will you. I already said I think it was KURDS. Just ironic that accused in fact don`t benefit at all from this string of terrorism, and no doubt they would understand that (correct feroz?). Anyhow, Turkish PM claims these people were Turk nationals and members of an extremist group. I wonder if that`s speculative still or positive ID has been made.

As for Tom Clancy comment...no doubt their are two script writers here...primary one is American, the other seems to be an international ``open source`` group of Arabs. These events aren`t accidental, they follow from premeditated acts, action and re-action, or more properly counter-action. Reality is always more strange and nuanced than fiction...hence any writer like Tom Clancy must marvel at how such events unfold.


ferozk,

``You are basing your statements on the assumption of ``who benefits`` from all of this and the answer you get, may not gel with the offical truth and once you remove all the possibilities, what is left, no matter how improbale, is most probable explanation.``

Hunh? Can you insert some proper nouns in there...

Assumptions on who benefits seems like a logical choice in absence of any other evidence. We have to ask who and why, among other questions. What are the other possible motivators? How is this to further Al-Queda`s cause? What is the motivation behind this kind of terrorist attack? Prior terrorist campaigns was against occupying powers, and so the rational - ``theory`` if you like - of their terrorism was well understood.

This kind is distinctly different, and seems to defy logic - that invokes suspicion. Aside from simple ``they hate so they commit mass murder`` explanations, what is the political motivations behind these kind of attacks? How do terrorist gauge their success? Why would they waste resources on particular targets if they wouldn`t see some kind of benefit to their cause?

Given above questions, Kurds would seem like a likely choice. Now it seems they`ve ID`d these people so we are left scratching our heads. Maybe these terrorists ARE as retarded as they look...but those of us who are against American Imperalism-lite can`t get over the irony, that the supposed enemy is often doing things that actually help out the American agenda.

Let us keep in mind that America and friends have already been caught in a lie...a down right `conspiracy` no less, in their WMD claims in Iraq. We SHOULD be paranoid against people like that.

vertex: you ignore the reality of what you know, and conjure up conspiracy theories for which you have no basis. there is a word for an individual who demonstrates such an attitude. can you help me find that word?

could it perhaps be ``moron``? it cant be, because a moron is not delusional, and you are that as well. perhaps we can call it vertexoron (defined by webster dictionary to be ``delusional moron``). that seems about right, dont you think?