The Culture of Research and Learning

This pseudo-piety is disgusting.

1.All you have to do is look at responses to Indian articles on Indian issues and see what sort of disruptions Pakistanis always create. I personally remember being abused on multiple occasions by Pakistani interactors for posting my POV on Indian issues. However anyone has a right to hold an opinion on anything so that is their call not mine.

2. Inspite of disruptions, it is STILL possible to discuss what you wish to, but a requirement is, that instead of typing long posts preaching piously to other interactors, you actually have to WRITE ABOUT THE TOPIC.

Hypocrites.

#52 by ballukhan

You are certainly right to put the onus on the theocratic bent of the society in the lack of research programs. This is limited and narrow but cogent argument. In Pakistan, though, religious bigotry is the supreme motivation to suppress the research in areas that may challenge the religion, but what has contributed more is the reluctance of the ruling class or the elite to promote “thinking” or rather “critical thinking” in the basic, mid level, and higher educational institutions. Sure enough, they draw their strength from the Islamic Ideology or Pakistan Ideology or “Nazaria-e-Pakistan” etc. But their reluctance to support R & D is mainly a reflection of their thought that any support of critical thinking or research in the areas of different arts and sciences, helps to create a level of intellectualism in the society that would provide the intellectual fodder to their opposition forces in the society.

This thought process is closer to fascist thinking that allowed for research in areas that helped the fascism but destroyed any other institutions that may oppose the fascism at some point in time.

Once you deprive a population to learn how to question, you have already destroyed the inquisitiveness in the young fellows to find a better solution thru research rather than following the run of the mill or the officially approved solution.

flyhighkites

Being civil and in love with one another is important but not as important as identifying, raising, and discussing real issues.

Murtaza Haider argued that:

1. Research and learning are important.
2. Research and learning need private sector and government support.
3. A few hundred households can get the R&L ball rolling by making donations.

PMishra wrote back that none of this was possible so long as a society remained focused on establishing Islamic supremacy, carrying on jehad, grabbing Kashmir, and crying for Palestinians.


What did you find irrelevant or offensive in this argument? If it`s just the tone, then that`s a sign of hypersensitivity and lack of confidence.

pmishra, Ralph, ankit, mohar11, Jay, arjun_m and sadna are the vanguard of the great civilization that will one day succeed in their noble efforts to make Pakistanis behave like human beings out of fraternal love in the garb of `ahimsa permo dharma`. ZahraJ is the
only intelligent Pakistani who understands their goodwill and to some extent Uncle Tom of Chowk.

need to bash

Pakistan is a failed state. Jihadis operating with out any govt control can occupy border posts and take on the indian army. There are areas of pakistan where no paki soldier dares to go.
Pak govt bans an organisation and they put up a new board and start operating as though nothing happened.

There is no point in talking peace or for that matter anything with the pak govt. Even the yanks have started bombing pakistan.

This leaves the world with only one option of bashing any pakistani where ever one finds them, on which ever board. There is need to address the actions at individual pakistanis, since pakistan is a failed state.

Sadna,

In kerala there was a QIP, quality improvement program for engineering lecturers where they attaended summer schools at IITs for three years and then were given paid study leaves to get PHds. Then as you say, many have gone and worked in the middle east for 5 years and came back with loads of money.

For pakistan it is not a question of lack of ideas, it is simply a case of no one thinks education is important. Pakistan will be the only country where the generals are given a mercedes, and that is really disproportionate with what they do and the social norms.

The tragedy is that no one ven the tahmeds and YLHs do not dare to mention the perks of the military. It is a society where it is a curriculum requirement to collect photos of military men and shaheeds ahile no one even the pathetic editor of dawn, omar quraishi does no dare to write about abdus salam.

There is no social value in pakistan that admires scholarship, it is only the islamic scholarship that people care. A million people at Madreke, that tells something about the tahmeds and omars.

43 by ZahraJ on May 30, 2004 10:13pm PT

Why the Cultural Values of the Sub-Continent are mainly respnosible for the lack of successful Scientific Research Programs:

For a society that has drawn the limits to theory construction by calling free thinking names such as Bidda, paradigm shift is the first casuality. It is my view that only those persons who are not mired in the certainity of their standing in the universe can actually construct innovative hypothesis- on the other hand , societies with strong theological groundings and equally strongly socialized individuals can never come up with a research programme that can be deemed innovative and shift the paradigm. Only communities with strong hermeneutical tradition in its theology (as in christian west) we can find innovative world views which re-defines the perspective of its budding scientists and hypothesis creators. In other words, only where the theology is uncertain and open to interpretations can we have a `culture` where the scientific theorizing can be `innovative`. That is why the brown bum in the sub-continent can never run a successful research program within his society.

Mere funds do not make or break a genuine scientific research programme. The foremost thing required is the `cultural` value of uncertainity in one`s position viz a viz the nature and the world around us. When this desire is extinguished by wholly accepting the revelations from the books then you find guys like Naqshabandi finding it meaningless to carry on their PHD program. ``Certainty`` is the killer of this crucial hypothesis building activity within the scientific community- how can you work out new scheme of things in case the `TRUTH` is already revealed to you. I bet, you try to run a scientific institute with millions of dollars worth of funds with guys like Naqshabandi and UrsTruly around- you would NEVER succeed. That is why mere Funds do not alone make or break a successful scientific program.


Philanthropy again reflects the cultural value- the Saudi Trusts or the Jehadi Funds could have been pumped into the institutes of higher scientific learning- But Why Not? Why do they have scholarships for subjects in which you have to just quote Islamic theology (Islamic Chemistry, Islamic Nuclear Physics et.). Can they not invest in JUST `Pure Physics`- Can they? No, because these people do not share this cultural value of scientific programs running without the crutches of theology. So it is not mere Philanthropy that contributes to the scientific program- you need more on the cultural aspect of it.

43 by ZahraJ on May 30, 2004 10:13pm PT

Why the Cultural Values of the Sub-Continent are mainly respnosible for the lack of successful Scientific Research Programs:

For a society that has drawn the limits to theory construction by calling free thinking names such as Bidda, paradigm shift is the first casuality. It is my view that only those persons who are not mired in the certainity of their standing in the universe can actually construct innovative hypothesis- on the other hand , societies with strong theological groundings and equally strongly socialized individuals can never come up with a research programme that can be deemed innovative and shift the paradigm. Only communities with strong hermeneutical tradition in its theology (as in christian west) we can find innovative world views which re-defines the perspective of its budding scientists and hypothesis creators. In other words, only where the theology is uncertain and open to interpretations can we have a `culture` where the scientific theorizing can be `innovative`. That is why the brown bum in the sub-continent can never run a successful research program within his society.

Mere funds do not make or break a genuine scientific research programme. The foremost thing required is the `cultural` value of uncertainity in one`s position viz a viz the nature and the world around us. When this desire is extinguished by wholly accepting the revelations from the books then you find guys like Naqshabandi finding it meaningless to carry on their PHD program. ``Certainty`` is the killer of this crucial hypothesis building activity within the scientific community- how can you work out new scheme of things in case the `TRUTH` is already revealed to you. I bet, you try to run a scientific institute with millions of dollars worth of funds with guys like Naqshabandi and UrsTruly around- you would NEVER succeed. That is why mere Funds do not alone make or break a successful scientific program.


Philanthropy again reflects the cultural value- the Saudi Trusts or the Jehadi Funds could have been pumped into the institutes of higher scientific learning- But Why Not? Why do they have scholarships for subjects in which you have to just quote Islamic theology (Islamic Chemistry, Islamic Nuclear Physics et.). Can they not invest in JUST `Pure Physics`- Can they? No, because these people do not share this cultural value of scientific programs running without the crutches of theology. So it is not mere Philanthropy that contributes to the scientific program- you need more on the cultural aspect of it.

43 by ZahraJ on May 30, 2004 10:13pm PT

Why the Cultural Values of the Sub-Continent are mainly respnosible for the lack of successful Scientific Research Programs:

For a society that has drawn the limits to theory construction by calling free thinking names such as Bidda, paradigm shift is the first casuality. It is my view that only those persons who are not mired in the certainity of their standing in the universe can actually construct innovative hypothesis- on the other hand , societies with strong theological groundings and equally strongly socialized individuals can never come up with a research programme that can be deemed innovative and shift the paradigm. Only communities with strong hermeneutical tradition in its theology (as in christian west) we can find innovative world views which re-defines the perspective of its budding scientists and hypothesis creators. In other words, only where the theology is uncertain and open to interpretations can we have a `culture` where the scientific theorizing can be `innovative`. That is why the brown bum in the sub-continent can never run a successful research program within his society.

Mere funds do not make or break a genuine scientific research programme. The foremost thing required is the `cultural` value of uncertainity in one`s position viz a viz the nature and the world around us. When this desire is extinguished by wholly accepting the revelations from the books then you find guys like Naqshabandi finding it meaningless to carry on their PHD program. ``Certainty`` is the killer of this crucial hypothesis building activity within the scientific community- how can you work out new scheme of things in case the `TRUTH` is already revealed to you. I bet, you try to run a scientific institute with millions of dollars worth of funds with guys like Naqshabandi and UrsTruly around- you would NEVER succeed. That is why mere Funds do not alone make or break a successful scientific program.


Philanthropy again reflects the cultural value- the Saudi Trusts or the Jehadi Funds could have been pumped into the institutes of higher scientific learning- But Why Not? Why do they have scholarships for subjects in which you have to just quote Islamic theology (Islamic Chemistry, Islamic Nuclear Physics et.). Can they not invest in JUST `Pure Physics`- Can they? No, because these people do not share this cultural value of scientific programs running without the crutches of theology. So it is not mere Philanthropy that contributes to the scientific program- you need more on the cultural aspect of it.

ijaz sahib -- plz dont mind but i think you cant see in one eye -- metaphorically speaking of course

ralph -- what in god`s name is a `sissy fit`? the fact is that he made an irrelevant and offensive comment and got something in kind -- that should have been the end of it but i suppose his foot soldiers had to come to his aid -- and by the way arjun , stop your misquoting plz -- pakistan`s expenditure on education is pretty abysmal but its not the $53 million figure that u said it is and not 0.37 per cent of GDP -- its around 2 per cent which is painfully low but almost six times your figure -- ijaz sahib -- aap kay kya kehnay -- some guy makes a completely irrelevant and inappropriate remark and gets a response and u think the ones who responded are to blame -- kya kehnay ijaz sahib --

This is a thoughtful article which could have led to some useful discussion were it not for the mindless interference of some individuals.

Dear Indians-with-issues (and only those): All right, Pakistan has issues. Can we please discuss our way out of them? And you stop forcing us in to the corner while we try to do the same? Also, why does anyone assume that once a person is provoked and humiliated, they will not retaliate in a manner appropriate or not? Please also refer to the following para.

Dear Pakistanis-with-issues 1: You know, it will help if you stop being an apology for yourself. Guess what, even though many of us can vote with the feet, there are many who cannot, and it is simply NOT their fault. Please realize that any person/nation with issues is NOT expecting a told-you-so, and that too ALL THE TIME. Articles like these, and an attempt to discuss them SHOW that Pakistanis (are beginning to) care. What else do your types want?

Dear Pakistanis-with-issues 2: These are the immature ones who do not grip the basic laws of conversation that children are familiarized with.

*Insult, and be insulted.
*Agar koi ganda bacha tumhain gali de, toh agay se gali na do.
*etc. Refer to common sense.

I am serious. This non-sense must end. And esp to the Indians - except for a person here or there, Pakistanis on this site have been receptive to you. Yes, stuff like what Mishra has said *has* a point. But the likes of these articles show that we got this point.

Please refer to any basic manual of good manners... and some advanced info on how to beign out the better in another person, how to resolve conflicts, and how to simply be quite when there`s no invitation for you to speak and destroy an argument.

[This is due to a culture of research and learning that promotes dedication, induces imagination, and breeds innovation. ]

This article has very genuine thoughts and suggestions coming out of each passage. I am not sure if Pakistani Society is prepared to embrace the culture of learning and research keeping civility in their back pocket.

On a relatively different note, I think many Pakistanis on Chowk will tremendously benefit from the latest findings on balancing their testosterone level. A good number of men are mentally challenged and emotionally disturbed. They like to write first and think afterwards. Some will start crying like little boys if someone disagrees with their gibberish. The ones who resist their tears usually come forth with way too much conceit that is beyond their own control. In short, it`s a real disturbing picture. It would be completely unfair to nurture any constructive expectation from them. Please recommend some organizations who may like to study their behavioral patterns. If you happen to find the right methods of cure to tackle this issue, please share the findings in your next article. That will be a sadqae` jariyaa. I am sure Chowk Admin would highlight that for all times to come. Best Regards.

Arjun,
My comments were not aimed at you. They were at the filty langauge used by Murtaza and Omar. in response to a remark by pmishra.
Romair,
Thanx for always reading my posts.
I think you would know Dr. Fawad Rauf. Now keep guessing???
Cheerios

Correction:
``get professional satisfaction``

``work on professional advancement such as taking exams and earning degrees``

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts