The Culture of Research and Learning

bongdongs

``I cannot tolerate incompetent abuse. ``

haha..that was a great one!!

relax UM! go have a beer , you might explode some veins.

Umer Murtaza
For the record, it still remains to be seen 1. Who will hang whom 2. Who will make whom extinct.

The fact that the question remains open does not imply that you are not worthy of being hung or being made extinct yourselves.

Meanwhile, it becomes clear how BADLY you people want to discuss this article, unfortunately chowk staff is blocking your posts on the subject and allowing only off-topic posts through. So sad.

Murtaza Haider
IMO, these days even multi-national companies are finding it hard to put aside `unproductive` money for real research.

Then what to say about third world universities. For a good university atmosphere, leaving aside equipment(which can be very expensive depending on area of research), having good computing facilities and access to current literature and journals may not cost prohibitive amounts of money. To build meaningful collaborations with industry and universities overseas also (IMO) might require initiative more than large amounts of money.

And there are innovations to retain good faculty. For example, this was this state government scheme in India which would allow its medical college doctors about 5 years worth of unpaid leave without loss of service whereby by their own choice they could go abroad or to private hospitals, get professional satisfaction, earn some extra money, and then return to their govt. jobs and carry on. It is a good scheme which works IMO.

The hope is that these sort of initiatives which do not cost millions of dollars would still manage to provide a good work and study environment for new ideas.

I have been on this site for about four to five years now. During this whole time, there are two things I have never been able to figure out:

- The desire of so many Indians to, again and again, abuse anything that has anything to do with Pakistan. To the point of not allowing any useful discussions to take place on even issues, that have absolutely nothing to with India. Including this one.

If one goes on the, ``India votes and How`` thread nearly each of the last 200 replies is from Indians. There are only a very small fraction by Pakistanis. And even the critical ones are critical based on the topic.

On this thread, before the discussion had even started, on a topic which had nothing to do with India, the brigade jumped in, as usual. I am completely perplexed by why this happens, again and again, and again. Perhaps a sign of a historical inferiority complex? I don`t know.

- The second thing that astonishes me is the inablility of so many Pakistanis to ignore such remarks by various Indian posters. This is even more perplexing. What is gained by replying to someone who abuses you? What kind of argument are you going to present to him/her that will make him/her be quiet? You cannot reach through the Internet and beat the guy up. And nothing short of that will stop the person. So why even bother?

The whole aim of the person who is abusing someone is to instigate a reply. It is obviously not to create a discussion. It is to destroy one. Such individuals have issues, complexes and hatreds and in some cases, psychological problems. Why not just let them them drown in their own filth, rather than jump into the filth with them.

UM #31 I am re-posting what I wrote on unplugged for the benefit of any other reader of your post #31.

UM is pissed because I said he owed pmishra an apology for the expletive laden post he wrote in response to a post pmishra wrote putting down pakis. Rest assured this is not because I have any need to win Mr. pmishra`s approval, or that of anyone else on chowk.

Indeed, I am one of the few Pakistanis who routinely take Indian chauvinists who come to chowk only for ``paki bashing`` to task. Check with Uncle Jay Thakeray if you ever have any doubts on this point. Or with Arjun, Aleph Null, Sadna, gujjubania, or any of the dozens other Indian chauvinists and Pakistan haters who hate my guts for exposing their shabby mindsets as much as you do when I chose not to go along with what you say.

No, my friend, I have never been afraid to speak up to any man in real life and rest assured I am not afraid to speak up to strangers on chowk.

The only reason I said you owed pmishra an apology was because (a) while this particular post of pmishra was uncalled for, by and large he is quite reasonable. You went overboard (I thought) in posting insults to him. Nor was I the only Pakistani poster who noticed that and pointed it out to you - Ijaz Gul and Zehra (both of whom are fine posters) did the same. They stopped short of asking you to apologize, and I did.

If you dont feel the need to apologize - that is fine with me. Personally, if I feel I have been unfair to someone, I have apologized to that poster. YLH once apologized to me for misattributing some dumb statement to me, and that apology told me he was a man with self-respect. In your case, I can only say that your reaction indicates an immature personality.

#31

``head-shaking, lentil sucking, bride burning idli dosa from Gondwanaland``

Dear Sir, the person you are trying to abuse has as his identity: ``p MISHRA``, for godsakes atleast get your abuse right. I cannot tolerate incompetent abuse.

re:#31 by UmerMurtaza
When u have nothing else to say, you revert to name calling. Is this a Paki mentality?
Why don`t u respond logically to some of the questions posed by Jay and others? Some of their questions are legitimate.
Sridhar

re:#31 by UmerMurtaza
``I mean, really, people like him don`t deserve to live.``
So, on the basis of a single post, u are going to decide who lives and who does not! What else do they teach you in your madrassas, dude?
Sridhar

Dear Murtaza,

I apologise for my rant. As stated before, your article was genuinely good and thought provoking. This is of course the reason that when a good work and good dialogue is disturbed by a head-shaking, lentil sucking, bride burning idli dosa from Gondwanaland where everyone is oh sooo happy-happy joy joy and where tigers, elephants and cows live side by side with humans, I sometimes lose my rag. But this behaviour is often exhibited by them. Of course, I have not been helpful and will refrain myself from now, lest the further spoilage of a good work by nutters such as myself.


Dear Chowk-staff

Either I`m sleep typing or that post 23 was written by someone else. IT IS NOT ME. I repeat, I HAVE NOT WRITTEN THAT POST! Please see to it. Thank you.


T23,

With an exception to Murtaza, I do not owe anyone anything, least of all dogs like Pmishra who I would rather see being hung or something. I mean, really, people like him don`t deserve to live. There are only so many resources and his kind should do us all a favour and undergo a voluntary mass extinction. And as for his dog pound, I couldn`t give a flying monkey as to what they think.

But I am truly disgusted at your behaviour. Mishra was `naughty` and I`m `uncalled` for. I wonder how you worked that out. I hope you realise that mine was a retaliation. His was a flatualance. Please don`t reply. As I`ve stated before to Murtaza, it`d be a good idea not to further spoil his work.

Umer M.

UM: While Pmishra was being a bit naughty here, I dont think your nasty reaction was called for. I think you owe him an apology.

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Post # 12:

An appropriate post routed towards completely inappropriate people.

article


I think some of the statistics of this article, are misleading and out of date. Because education budgets are responsibility of provinces, according to my information Pakistan allocates nearly 2% of GNP to education, with GNP of nearly 100 billion dollars according to my reckoning that’s nearly 2 billion for education.

Ref: Romair & by now his standard mantra

I have always wondered what is wrong with this person who not-so-seldom submit rather good quality posts. Because, there must be some good reasons for most, if not all of his answers revolve around salaries.

Finally, I have got the answer. Here comes my expert psychoanalysis.

Romair is basically not as an idiot as many people over here seem to believe. On the contrary, I would assert, he is quite a good person at heart but suffers of severe guilty consciousness. And in order to soothe his spiritual qualms he keeps on chanting his classical mantra of poor salaries in the forces on one hand and his enormous success in the Silicon Valley on the other.

Let me elaborate by first explaining the background.

He joined PAF after his matriculation at the age of 16-17. Pakistan, despite being one of the poorest countries on the face of earth provided him every conceivable facility and luxury. Imagine, at the age of 16-17 when millions of his age fellows were roaming around without any prospect for future he was given 400 – 500 PRs as pocket money (to start with in early 80s) … yeah only to study. Not only that he was provided with free mess, world-class education, very decent sports facilities, extremely good medical care – all gratis, and batman when he was just a shitty cadet. Even every sort of complete clothing sets (from uniform, sportswear, mufti to shalwar kameez) was given to him without charging him and his family a penny. On top of all this, guaranteed job after graduation with not-so-bad packet of perks and privileges.

Gradually, he graduated with a degree in avionics. Then, one day he “realised” that oh, see [very few] people in the civil with compatible academic qualifications are getting more than what he received at the end of month. Which might not be full truth – that’s another story. He started panga-bazi, got released from the forces, moved to the US. With some luck succeeded in making a few bucks.

Now, he knows very well that there are not many very plausible justifications for his code of conduct. He knows very well that he got everything possible, rather much more than what it affords, out of that poor country and left it the very moment he got a better chance. He feels guilty. Possibly very guilty. Somewhere deep inside him someone keeps on reminding him that Mr, aapis kee baat hai, you are a selfish $ucker.

He needs something to get rid of those disturbing thoughts. Some alibis. To do that he keeps on chanting that military officers are not well paid. Their civilian counterparts are better off. He is a super genius – his enormous successes are a proof that Pakistan was too small, too backward for him. Though most of his replies and comments [try to] derive authority by the virtue of his past in the forces. A decade that PAF served him (yes PAF served him) is by all likelihood the cornerstone for all of his grossly inflated achievements.

Take his whining out and think for a while what reasons there are for his betrayal. Keep in mind he joined PAF well aware of their salary packages. He exploited it in every imaginable manner. Left it the very day he could stand on his feet. He never takes into consideration the amount, the efforts, put in and zalalat endured by civilians from Matric (Secondary School) to graduation – normally 7 – 9 years at least -- and then finding some decent job.

Even if there were exactly same salaries, using romair’s formulas, I bet he would have been saying now: until and unless Pakistanis don’t get same amount of money in Pakistan what they can easily get in Saudi Arabia or Northern America or Somalia, they will keep on leaving the country?

I remember watching an American film, where to a general, betrayal was a far worse crime than a rape. So friends, it is romair’s betrayal that makes him keep on submitting all that nonsense. If he doesn’t do that, he has to admit that he is a namak-haram a$$hole. Not an easy job to confess, I guess. Right!?
Everyone is fully and legitimately entitled to social, economic and intellectual promotion. I definitely don’t want to deny him that fundamental right. This note is only meant to offer him a different set of lenses.

To be noted I post this analysis of mine only in response to recycling of romair’s trademark bakwas – not when he sticks to the point. There is no other way to keep him on track.