Enduring Operation Freedom

Shahid

You have hit upon a major issue across the liberal and secular world. People are going out of there way to defend the brash arrogance demonstrated by America and its murderous foriegn policy. Soon you will see some chowkies come out in there droves describing your article as ``Hot Air`` and ``Baseless`` because they feel that your only motivation is being Anti-American. It is a major problem with the bourgeosie as they wrap themselves up in the comfortable disposition of wealth and security of the greener pastures and conveiniently forget the injustices perpetrated in the name of Western Democracy.

Dont give up

Well, you certainly have the right to ask your government for answers. But the United States has the right to act in self interest especially where national security is concerned. There have been numerous incidents of Arab terrorists coming in from Canada. The famous one was of the Algerian arrested on the border on the eve of the Millenium celebrations. The Algerian was in Canada and came to the US with the express purpose of blowing up the Space Needle on Dec 31, 1999. He was arrested by an alert customs agent and many kilograms of concealed explosives were discovered. This is a direct result of Canada`s lax policies in allowing foreigners without appropriate background checks.

The US and Canada are friendly nations and we wish the relations remain so. However, if Canada is to become a den of anti American terrorsists due to its own ``liberal`` policies then the Uunited States will have no choice but to implement defensive measures.

Oh and just to clarify matters to Wajahat and his ilk...

`` because they feel that your only motivation is being Anti-American.``

I do not see the author as Anti American at all. Nor do I see Europeans as being ``Anti American`` in the strict sense of the word. I do believe that their priorities and vision may be different from those of the United States. That is fine. They are welcome to define and prioritize their world view as they see fit and the US has the exact same right to do so for itself. There may be a tradeoff between coinciding priorities and relations with the US but that too boils down to prioritizing by the governments of the respective nations.

The author uses the word `censorship` rather permissively. Censorship is when a government or its agents stop you from expressing a thought, speech, cartoon, letters etc. It is an entire different ballgame when a non-government agency or a business decides not to underwrite what you express.Deliberately confusing the two seems to be one of the primary tools in the arsenal of the Blame America First crowd that is upset that many American publishing houses and institutions are not providing a forum for anti-American propaganda.

``Canada chose to legitimize the United Nations``. NO kidding. The same UN which presided over the genocide in Bosnia during much of which a Canadian general who led the UN `peacekeepers` busied himself being an apologist for Serbian atrocities. Now the same general is a spkesman for the chief Serbian apologist group in North America. Thank you, but we don`t need that kind of legitimization.

``...forged relationships with foreign countries irrespective of their political leanings`` With all due respect to Pierre Trudeau who I truly admire, the US is in a slightly different league than Canada. Just because the Liberal regime in Ottowa wanted to cosy up to Cuba, the PLO, Iraq, Iran doesn`t mean that US needs to do the same. Had we left it up to the Canadian foreign policy of all-gocts-are-equal, Communism would still be up and running.

And by the way, since Arar is mentioned, how come there is no mention of the Canadian journalist who was killed inside a prison in Iran? Bashing America makes juicier reading doesn`t it?

LoL @ wajahat

;-)

stuka #2: ``There have been numerous incidents of Arab terrorists coming in from Canada.``

Could you highlight the, ``numerous`` cases.

Literally hundreds of thousands to millions of people cross between Canada and the USA every year. Multiply that by the number of years the border has been open and the number would run into tens of millions of people who have crossed.

Hundreds of billions of dollars of material has crossed the border, over the years.

Out of all of these people and material, you highlighted one case. Do the math. If it is a real problem, and Canada is, ``a den of anti American terrorsists due to its own ``liberal`` policies,`` as you claim, you should be able to rattle off at least ten cases, with no problem.

Could you list them for us, kindly.

Also, USA is busy blaming everyone and their grandmother for the terrorist acts against it. It tried to establish a Canadian relationship with the Sep 11 unsuccessfully. Not a single one of the terrorists came in from Canada. All of them entered the USA through the US immigration system. In fact, one of the pilots actually received an approved work visa, sent to his flying club, after he had died in the WTC attack!

The US policies are quite counter-productive. The people who enter the USA legally are generally well-wishers of the USA. All these restrictions against them, are just pissing them off, and the USA is losing its well-wishers. Outside foreign policy (where Canadians, like most peace-loving people are generally anti-USA), Canadians seem to really like and even admire the USA. However, all this anti-Canada stuff is pissing them off also.

The US had the world`s sympathy after Sep 11. I have never seen any nation lose such sympathy so quickly, due to its incorrect policies. This is primarily due to the attempts by the USA to pressurize other countries, to change their domestic policies, against the wishes of the other countries citizens. This is why the citizens of all countries, including India, are against sending their troops to help the USA.

There is absolutely no way to control terrorism on the supply side. It can only be controlled on the demand side. Each action USA takes, including Iraq, pressure on Canada etc. is just creating more individuals who are angry at the USA.

Interestingly the USA is unwilling to pressurize the one country it knows it needs to pressurize (Israel), to solve the USA`s terrorism problems.

Perhaps the Americans should ask themselves the following question: America has a huge immigrant population. It probably has the most terrorist sleeper cells in the world. Why is it that Americans are scared of terrorists crossing into America from Canada, yet Canadians are not scared of terrorists crossing into their country from the USA? Even though the USA`s immigration and security policies have proven to be weak.

And why is it that Canadians themselves don`t feel scared of the, ``numerous`` terrorists who, according to your claim, are sitting inside Canada at the moment?

And if there are as numerous as you claim, then why don`t they just blow up things in Canada? Why are they all bent upon entering the USA?

shahid:

there is no clear and simple reason for the cancellation...some of the following play their part as well:

--outright racism
--influence peddling by the you-know-who groups
--buckling under the threats and innuendo (grants/aids)
--penetration in canadian security apparatus of foreign sympathizer
--ineffective lobbying by the minorities

agree with you these should be discussed and addressed

rgds,

t

``There have been numerous incidents of Arab terrorists coming in from Canada.``

There have been numerous allegations of terrorists coming from Canada. There has, to my knowledge, only been one case with merit, and you have correctly identified it.


``This is a direct result of Canada`s lax policies in allowing foreigners without appropriate background checks.``

Excuse me? And what about all the 9-11 suspects? You have no right to criticize Canada on this matter when America`s record is anything but stellar. Throw in general profiling, and mass detentions which in turn have produced little results, then we must conclude America has a really poor record, if anything. Nothing to emulate, and certainly something we Canadians should keep in mind when Americans go on and on about our apparent lack of security at the borders.

Romair:

Here`s a report from Canadian Intelligence as reported by BBC BEFORE Sept 11. Read on...



The Canadian Intelligence Service says Islamic extremists, including supporters of the Saudi exile, Osama bin Laden, appear to be using Canada as a base for plotting against the United States.
The statement follows the capture last December of an Algerian-born man, Ahmed Ressam, as he tried to cross into the United States from Canada while allegedly carrying bomb-making equipment.



Sunni Islamic extremism, exemplified by terrorist financier Osama bin Laden, has emerged as the pre-eminent international terrorist threat

CSIS report

In its annual report, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) said the arrest of Mr Ressam and a number of associates was an indication that extremists had intensified their activities in North America.

The report says that, while state-sponsored terrorism continued to pose a significant threat, ``one of the prime motivators of terrorism today is Islamic religious extremism.``

``In the past few years, Sunni Islamic extremism, exemplified by terrorist financier Osama bin Laden, has emerged as the pre-eminent international terrorist threat.``

`The financier`

Last month, President Clinton accused Mr bin Laden of financing Mr Ressam - a charge denied by his lawyer.

The US has demanded that Afghanistan extradites Mr bin Laden to stand trial on charges of masterminding the August 1998 bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, which killed more than 200 people.

CSIS said Canada`s open society and proximity to the United States meant the country was becoming an increasingly attractive base for foreign terrorists.

The Intelligence Service also said it was concerned that extremists were trying to manipulate immigrant communities in Canada.

``Despite warnings by the Canadian government that it is deemed unacceptable, certain governments consider it in their best interest to monitor the activities of political opponents living in Canada and coerce expatriate nationals,`` the report said.

`Friendly` threat

CSIS acknowledges that Canada is also threatened by its own allies.



Bomb explosions at US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania cost many lives


``Foreign governments, including some of Canada`s allies and trading partners, direct their departments, state-owned corporations and intelligence services to engage in economic espionage against Canada,`` CSIS said.

The most sensitive areas of economy include aerospace, biotechnology, communications, information technology, nuclear energy, oil and gas, the report says.

CSIS is also concerned that other countries have targeted Canadian trade negotiations, military and technological development, and classified Nato exchanges.

Another serious problem is the smuggling of illegal immigrants - mainly from China - and the powerful financial resources enjoyed by crime groups from Eastern Europe and Asia.

``Several groups have an increasing presence in Canada and its economy through Canadian nationals and companies used to launder hundreds of millions of dollars,`` the CSIS reports says.

Digit:

You contradict yourself:

``You have no right to criticize Canada on this matter when America`s record is anything but stellar. ``

True, pre Sept 11 our record was anything but stellar. We should have tightened up after Y2K attempt. But we did not.

``Throw in general profiling, and mass detentions which in turn have produced little results, then we must conclude America has a really poor record, if anything.``

Excuse me?? How are these steps contradictary to thorough checks? So you are saying we had a poor record because we let people in who turned out to be terrorists and now we have a poor record coz we make an effort not to?

Regarding allegations, why would an intelligence service criticize or ``allege`` things about its own country?

oh yeah, no one is telling Canada how to run its own ship. But if it has a consequence on the US, it has a right to take its own steps to protect itself. What is so hard to understand about that? Maybe the Canadians will tighten up if the CN Tower is hit because the Sears Tower had become too hard a target.

All it takes is a couple of blasts to change your outlook on terror as the Saudis are fast discovering.

sigalph wrote

``And by the way, since Arar is mentioned, how come there is no mention of the Canadian journalist who was killed inside a prison in Iran? Bashing America makes juicier reading doesn`t it? ``

The death of Zahra Kazemi was big news here. It`s somewhat `stale` news since there is no change in the status of that story. The Arar story is relatively recent. And unlike the Kazemi case, this one involves Canadian ineptitude in the face of American zealotry. This one involves `our` government and law enforcement agencies, not those of a known corrupt regime. This has nothing to do with `America Bashing` - although America does deserve to be bashed in light of its actions.

Romair#6

`
And if there are as numerous as you claim, then why don`t they just blow up things in Canada?
`

There are other nation (like Turkey..) to take care of before mosad works on Canada.

I think Shahid makes a valid case for the censorship. A censorship is censorship whether it is imposed by a government institution or by a publically funded institution. It is not fair to judge censorship that is imposed in Western societies by the parameters that are applicable to third world countries. In Third World countries, it is usually the government that controls everything from sports to media and from business to God so the censorship is more visible and well defined. Whereas in Western societies, most of the institutions are publically or privately owned with minimum government interference, so the line between true censorship and the so called freedom of speech are blurry but censorship exists. When government imposes a censorship it does so because some vested interests of the interest- group(s) in the government are at stake. And when a public or private institution instills a censorship, it does so because the vested interests of interest-groups within the organization are at stake. Telling the truth and doing the right thing will always cost man. And that is the reason that Jihad is forever.

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