To Be Or Not To Be Home?

hamidm:

as if caught between three ladies and a republican is not enough;)

....you don`t see the pope or bill gates running around chasing a lawn mower ? ...

...one cannot and the other won`t...so...back to you ladies and gent.

...t

``housewifery`` is not real work ...........

Sir Hamidm
You are lucky we haven`t called the feminazi police force or else you would be scrubbing the kitchen floor right now and acknowledging the dignity it brings.
I support career oriented females but at the same time, the work that is done by housewives cannot be neglected. It takes alot of stamina to do the same chores every single day, and I think it is much more physically exhausting to cook, clean, etc than to sit on your comfy chair at the office. Housewifery is just as much ``real work`` as a professional job is, and it carries alot of dignity as well. The difference is the end result, if you are not bringing in money at the end of the month then no matter how much work you have done, people don`t appreciate it. Housewives are not appreciated for the amount of work they put in to nurture their families because their work is not materialisticly productive. Hire a maid and when you have to pay her for the same work that your housewife used to do for free, then I am sure you can appreciate her ``housewifery.``
and all the ``you``s in the post are not directed at you Sir Hamidm, they are used for general purpose. So please don`t retaliate:)

saminasha,

......... both mrs hamidm and i do our share of housework and we both hate it ........... if we could afford it we would farm it all out to mexicans and romanians and spend our spare time watching the grass grow ........... but that is besides the point ........... i still don`t think being a career housewife is an honorable profession and i certainly wouldn`t want my daughters to entertain this silly thought ........... it is a ``choice`` that only a feeble minded, inadequate and lazy woman would make .............. trust me, i know what i am talking about - i can ``keep`` house better than many of these ``professional`` housewives - every sunday i clean the shower stall with a toothbrush, tilex and soft scrub untill the darn thing shines, and i never mix colored laundry with the white ............

............ so i tell my daughters, ``if you don`t study hard, you will end up like me, peeling ten pounds of potatoes in your pajamas ``............ all this dignity of labor stuff is fine and dandy - i just don`t want any part of it, been there, done that!............ as tahmed suggests, i have done my share of ``dignified`` work to make us a superpower.........now it is time to let someone else do it............ i also have a suspicion that this ``dignity of labor`` stuff is cooked up by the idle rich to ensure that the po folk keep on working harder to make them richer ............ you don`t see the pope or bill gates running around chasing a lawn mower ?

I think I see that pig in Charlottes` Web flying overhead....I actually agree with #42....Hamid, perhaps Mrs Hamid should ask you to take over the housework?

stuka #42 it is indeed heartening, particularly for someone coming from class conscious countries like india or pakistan, how democratic the labor force is in the US. today`s gas station attendant could be tomorrow`s chief executive. people are proud of having done manual labor, not ashamed.

many years ago, when my elder brother finished engineering university, my father suggested that he spend a day working as a manual worker in pakistan (the theory being that since he would be ordering workers around once he started his first job, he might as well see things from the worker`s perspective). that evening my brother returned, tired and greasy and dirty (he had spent the day working at an auto repair shop). in the US of course no father would need to tell his son to go work as a manual worker - since they do it anyway when going through college.

it is little things like this that add up to explain why the US is a superpower and so many other countries are not. it has to do with the entire outlook on things of society.

hamidm #43 you write ``housewifery`` is not real work ........... ``

hope you wear your running shoes when you write such things (so you can run faster than the pots and pans and rolling pins that will no doubt come flying at you if mrs. hamidm appens to see you writing things like the above on chowk).

stuka, tahmed

.......... i couldn`t agree with you more .... that`s exactly what i tell my kids........... but i was talking about this kind of work in the context of a household and i still maintain that ``housewifery`` is not real work ...........

HamidM:

`` there is no dignity of labor in cleaning toilets, changing diapers, cooking runny dal and scrubbing the floor - any idiot, male or female, can do it ................. ``

Sure. The operative word is ``can`` as in it is a low skill job but low skill does not translate into low effort. Having done slave labour in desi restaurants, American pizza parlors and various other jobs including mopping floors etc, I agree that these do not require a high degree of skill. That aside, I disagree with anyone who says there is no dignity in these jobs.

It was those jobs that made me a man from a boy. It was the tedious hard work, mind numbingly hard, that made me determined to pull myself up. It was also the pay check that I recieved that gave me the confidence of being able to survive and move up on my own. I was proud of wearing my Domino`s uniform compared to desi kids who were progeny of the IAS and who`se apartment rents were higher then my entire month`s budget.

There is far more dignity in doing all these jobs compared to sitting at the Delhi Gymkhana making small talk while signing chits so the bill goes to my dad. Having done both, I speak from experience.

So, by all means, give your daughters all they need to succeed in terms of education and experience. But do them a favor and do not teach them to have contempt for manual labor. Be it personal or professional. A healthy respect for any sort of labor will bode them well.

hamidm #36 you are confusing cause and effect - the mexican is forced to work as janitor because that is the only way he can earn an honest living. that does not mean that he is giving up his dignity as well. nor does the fact that he makes less than you make him less dignified. that is all i am saying.

as for what your children will do, as my daughter told me when i was trying to convince her to take up medicine like a good desi kid: ``you are trying to live your life through me``. just give your kids good education, and if after that they are happy to raise a family - just be glad for them. dont try to make them astronauts just because you would like to be one. the day pakistani men learn this, they would have gone a notch up on their evolutionary scale.

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temporal,

....... being a poet and all, you are exempt from rules that bind the rest of man-kind .......... i just hope to god my daughters don`t run off with poets or prophets - it is sort of hard to get mad at people who know not what they do ................and we all straddle the middle ground, getting away with what we can ............. i too am sometimes guilty of displaying traits of neanderthal or muslim like behaviour - intransigence, obduracy, and sheer incompetence................ for example i refuse to fold and put away laundry - it is all that stands between me and total capitulation to mrs hamidm ..............somehow, i feel that as long as i don`t fold underwear and match socks, to put away neatly in drawers lined with pink paper, my manhood it intact .............nobody is perfect............ but you really should try cooking - it is quite therapeutic, specially if you drink more wine than you put in the korma ..............korma in a merlot sauce - my speciality ................

Good article and discussion about an important issue.

Our societies (both eastern and western) still do impose a lot of responsibilities onto a woman. (A communist dictator hiding inside me says that any man responsible for impregnating a woman should be made lawfully obliged to share her burdens - financial and/or others. Any of his earnings/time should first go towards the child/mother and then towards himself).

Unfortunately, a lot of South Asian men are brought up without any exposure to housework, and therefore don`t help out as much as they can. In these cases, a woman ends up with all the responsiblity and undoubtedly the relationship does suffer.

Flexible hours from employers, open communicative relationships and prioritization of what needs to be done (i.e. the kids bedroom does not have to be super clean, but the kids should get good decent meals) can go a long way. Supportive family members, social infrastructures can help as well. Day-care centres could be run a little better - what`s with closing promptly at 6pm? The thing is the entire social structure has not come to terms with working parents and there`s a void that needs to be filled.

I really think there should be a `parent` clause in employment contracts. Happier and motivated employees are better than unhappy and unproductive employees.

tahmed32 and hamidm:

...i occupy the middle ground between two...but i swear upon your prophets and gods...surely we all believe in different gods no?...mine smiles...that i know!...as i was declaring my intentions of swearing upon your prophets (both Muhammed (saw) and Carlin (may he stay on the right side of mike and keyboard)…that i do the dishes and some ironing and vacuuming and some of the ghaas-vaas stuff and some more of this and some more of that….but no cooking or peeling sheeling…( you bet M cannot write a bad poem either if her life depended on it;))… so we have a unison…er..division of work/labour…speaking of labour…when she was paire-bhaari…no, no that was a different story…not now…so yes...there is a respectful unision of agreement on who does what…and in front of whom one can proudly tell which lie without being challenged…so back to this post…which i started writing despite having no such intentions…but one of you must have irritated me enough to pound on the keryboard…so unless you have all night,,,i occupy the middle ground between you two and i have M’s permission to say so…there…hummphhh!...go sort it out willya …over your respective rooh-afzas and glennnnntempus…

...t

tahmed,

.......... allright ............ so cleaning toilets and scrubbing floors is ``dignified``, but i still don`t want my daughters to do it and i don`t want any other man to tell them they have to do it either ............. we all know that the prophet (pbuh) mended his own clothes and god`s only son made his own sandals, but i maintan that versache and gucci could have done it better and if they had any sense they would have hired a tailor and a cobbler !.............

............ all this talk about the dignity of manual labor is bs perpetuated by folks who want to keep the poor mexican picking the grapes while they sip the wine ................nobody actually ``enjoys`` digging ditches and picking cotton or doing the laundry - they do it because they have to ............ we thank them for it, but let`s not go overboard with this dignity stuff ............

hamidm #34 you missed (or ignored) my point: you are equating ``intellectually challenging`` with ``dignified``. Rest assured that these are two different things. The laborer digging a ditch under the hot sun in pakistan, or the mexican woman cleaning your toilet bowl, is doing more dignified work than the bara sahib does when accepting a bribe.

I admit that this concept may be a bit intellectually challenging for you to comprehend. but make an effort and you just might get it. Trust me it doesnt require much more brains than it does to peel potatoes to get this concept - so dont shy away from the point.

......... i tell my daughters ten times a day, ``there is nothing diginified about cleaning toilets, scrubbing floors and wiping a baby`s rear end.... and if you don`t do well in school, and have a meaningful career, you will end up doing all that and crocheting doilies in your spare time - brain surgery is real work, any idiot can stuff a turkey and stick it in the oven``............. and to prove the point, i made thanksgiving dinner with home made stuffing, real mashed potatoes and gravey that simmered for five hours ............ i can assure you there was nothing challenging about peeling ten pounds of russet potatoes - it is humiliating work and mrs hamidm, being the self-respecting woman that she is, would have nothing to do with it .......... ``you want real mashed potoatoes? here, mash your heart out,`` she said, handing me the peeler (which, by the way is the greatest invention since sex)............

.........................a lot of fat lazy women and their impotent husbands blabber on about how difficult it is to run a house and raise kids and what a full time ``job`` it is ............. nonsense!............ no, it is not a job, it is menial labor - it might be the labor of love, and all that, but it is still pretty meaningless work .............. and it doesn`t take a village to raise a child (unless you want to raise the village idiot) - all it takes is two parents (or one parent, an uncle and a wet-nanny)............. for god`s sake, there is no mystery to housework - any mexican, or person of polish descent, will be more than happy to do it for you for eight bucks an hour, leaving you free to read the nyt editorials or do your nails............ that is what adam smith meant by division of labor - he did not intend for women to do all the dirty work and take away jobs from new immigrants ................