A Case for Banning Polygamy

anew #219 While it is kind of you to invite me to join you on this other board, I dont recall us having interacted much with you on this board. We did interact a bit in the beginning, but (I had drawn my conclusions about you after the first couple of interactions when I realized that you were just another mouthpiece for mullahism.

Here is a piece of friendly advice: chowk is not a mosque where only the mullah has a voice via the loudspeaker. so dont think that by cutting and pasting miles and miles of mullah literatuve on chowk you will simply drown out other voices. You will simply come out looking like an ideologue who is impervious to reason, which is certainly the conclusion I have come to.

hamidm #218 You, my dear sir, are never dull, often witty - and generally wrong. And this post is no exception. Here is why you are wrong:

``my`` version (as you insist on calling it) of a peaceful islam is not a figment of my imagination: one billion muslims around the world DONT wake up every morning planning their next attack on civilization. They wake up instead to go about their business which is quite peaceful in case of 99 percent muslims (as is the case with everybody else).

On sharia law, while I will grant you that lip service is paid to the term in most muslim countries, it is basically a lot of hot air since no one can really define sharia law. Example: if one goes by the sharia law as practiced under the caliphs, slavery would still be valid under sharia law. But not even the mullah will argue for slavery today (slavery was legal right upto 1962 in Saudi Arabia, and then even they gave it up). Similarly, no muslim country other than Saudi Arabia chops of people`s hands for theft - and when Zia tried to implement this in Pakistan, to their great and unsung credit not one single doctor in Pakistan was willing to carry out this brutal act. Like a lot of other mullahisms, this is hot air. Civil and criminal procedures and laws in most muslim countries are not that different from the rest of the world. It is saudi arabia that is the exception in muslim countries, not turkey. Go to the banks of the Nile in Cairo and you will see male-female couples holding hands as they do on the banks of the Seine (OK I am getting a bit poetic here, but nevertheless I did see that when I was in Cairo once).

And in saying that islam is a peaceful religion, I AM in the mainstream. Not just the pakistani mainstream, but the american mainstream too: I have heard virtually every single mainstream politician refer to islam as a peaceful relgiion: the only ones for whom islam is anathema is in fact the cultists in the USA - namely, the christian fundamentalists. So, it is you who is in the company of the cultists - the christian fundamentalists in the US, the hindutvas in India - whereas what I am saying is said and practiced by the mainstream across the world, in the muslim world, as well as in places like the US and India (unless you really think that jay represents the mainstream in India and not dost mittar).

So, i am very comfortable with my respect for islam as i am with my respect for all religions. It is you who have the problem - you keep repeating how you cant wait for religion to be disappear (wont happen), and seem to think that the world will become a perfect place as a result (not true).

So, like I said, you are often witty and often wrong.

tahmed:
Thanks for the url for the article by your dad. It does build a good case against blasphemy laws. But it does not say anywhere that quran is not to be accepted in its entirety but only its essence, or that sharia is not part of islam; indeed it uses hadith to support the case against blasphemy laws.

who is this `anew`? -- talking like an `anold`-- may be `anold` Naqshbandi`` -- if NOT -- then where IS he -- I want to hear the Duet......:-)

dost mittar #211 I appreciate your encouragement on speaking out on behalf of the peaceful message of Islam (as opposed to the violent and oppressive message preached by the mullah). Of course it wont accomplish much, given that chowk (with an audience one can count on one`s fingers) is more of a time-pass than anything else, and at best a way to bounce around ideas. And i dont think i am about to take on the job of reformation in islam. :-)

More seriously, I dont think the problem is with the average Pakistan who (as we both agree) is a decent fellow and not the murderous fanatic that he is made out to be by muslim haters. The routine thrashing mullahs have always received in elections being an important proof of this. Anothe important point is that shariah laws (hadood, blasphemy) have been foisted on Pakistan by a dictator in order to continue his rule through the arbitrary tools for terrorizing anyne who spoke up. They have not been the result of any referendum or popular assembly.

Given that the legal system in pakistan has been debilitated by dictators through the mixing of religion, the solution clearly lies in doing away with dictatorship. Only in a democracy will leaders see themselves owing their jobs to the voters, and thus stop playing games with them by posing as viceroys of God on earth. And only then will the basic decency of the pakistani people be reflected in public policy, in its laws.

I thought you might find this link which seems to be on a Canadian muslim website nteresting (i googled it): it is a reprint of an article my father had written to demonstrate how blasphemy laws were in fact a blasphemy of themselves:
http://muslim-canada.org/HamdardBlasphemy.html

It is quite well written I think, even keeping in mind that I may be biased a bit here. He wrote a number of such tracts (on hadood laws and also one that was actually used at the Lahore high court to challenge Nawaz Sharif`s attempt at becoming a dictator through a constitutional amendment). Pakistan has a large middle class, and this fight for freedom of the pakistanis from generals and mullahs will continue until one day, inshallah, Pakistanis will be victorious over those who seek to rule over them. And the whole region, and indeed the world, will be a better place as a result.

dost-mittar,

............. you are absolutely right in your observation that tahmed`s version of islam exists only as a figment of his imagination ............. his is a lone voice, very very lonely indeed ..... at least i don`t know a single person, including those who can barely recite the kalima and couldn`t tell asar from zuhur, who would deny that sharia is part of islam ...............therefore in some form or fashion sharia is the basis of law in every muslim country except turkey .............. this koranic cult that tahmed is pushing is just that - a cult .......... and it is very possible that these well-meaning folks will soon incur the wrath of the ummah and be declared heretics by the mainstream ummah like the ahmedis and pervaizis before them ..............the fact of the matter is that islam is still a couple of hundred years from reformation or (hopefully) destruction ............but first, like any other religion or viral disease, it has to run its course and humanity has to suffer .............

...... however, i am beginning to suspect that anew is really rationalfaith in disguise - even a muslim couldn`t be this stupid.....

sattar2 - fair enough … let’s wait for your messiah to settle the issue …

#215 by tahmed32 -

Tune in on Friday for the next exciting episode of (drum roll, please): ``Rabid people make strange bedfellows``.

You are in a good company. Join me on other boards (karo kari). Enough on this one. Thanks to Ayesha to start this Topic and the opportunity to Dialogue.

Anew Sahib, fair enough … let’s wait for your messiah to settle the issue …

… apparently this two thousand year old messiah will descend to earth, on some minaret in Damascus. You may not know this … but this minaret does not have a ladder leading down from the eastern dome … and a helicopter may be required to bring him down to the ground. Also, do offer him some nihari when he shows up … it is the only noteworthy achievement of the ummah in the last 700 years ...

Sahib … you claim religion is sincere advice. Sincerity is one thing … but bartering your brains for charas is quite another … and send me an e-mail when this messiah shows up … you know … CNN’s coverage is quite biased at times … and they cannot be fully trusted in matters of faith …

RationalFaith … stop before you push him over the edge … he is more foolish than you think … and will be even more dangerous in his moment of disillusionment … it’ll all be your fault … you know …

vertex #213 to anew: you write ``You really should know when you`re being egged on. What a strange alliance,you and rabidly anti-Islamic people ... ``

and, as if on cue, RationalFaith comes up with #214, another laudatory post to anew!! Hallelujah! It is a Miracle!! Will anew finally get it (and thus demonstrate that is IQ is not that far below double digits)? Or will he take yet another bow for he no doubt considers to be the high praise due to him for cutting and pasting miles of mullah literature on this board.

Tune in on Friday for the next exciting episode of (drum roll, please): ``Rabid people make strange bedfellows``.

anew,

You really should know when you`re being egged on. What a strange alliance,you and rabidly anti-Islamic people ...

Dude, your problem is that no matter how much you deride western culture you take the crtiisicm of westerners to heart. You are forever the reactionary. WHO CARES what other people think. The very notion that you have to ``defend`` yourself 24-7 shows how insecure you are, not the opposite.

anew

I admire you more than I admire all the pretenders here combined. Islam is based on complete surrender. You are a true Muslim because you have completely surrendered to Allah`s and His Book. Nothing can come between you and victory over pretend Muslims. That`s the beauty of Islam. Over and over and over that has been proven but pretend muslims refuse to see.

I am not a Muslim but the inevitable rise of true Muslims in Islamic lands once again at the crossroads of history fills me with joy. What can be more delightful than seeing Allah at work among his own chosen people? Glory be to Him!

#211 is addressed to tahmed#206

``So, your ``test`` simply fails, and i am not that far off when I say that even you have a wrong impression of Pakistanis. The plain and simple fact is that the average pakistani is in fact a down to earth, decent, hard working individual, not the narrow minded religious fanatic that jay would like to portray him to be, nor the stupid superstitious mullah follower that hamidm loves to caricature.``

I have never said that the average Pakistani is not a down to earth, decent, hard working individual, but how does my test fail without your using it? I am sure that your father was a very decent person and wrote a very decent book but I am at a disadvantage in not having read the book. What I do know is that I have been frequently scanning Dawn, generally considered a liberal Pakistani newspaper, for the last seven or so years and I do not recall ever reading anyone saying that sharia should not be considered as an integral part of Islam. What I have read is many Pakistani/muslim secularists arguing that sharia should not be part of the laws of the Pakistani state, which is different from saying that it is not a part of islam. Even at chowk, I do not recall anyone other than yourself who keeps repeating that sharia is not part of Islam.
But don`t give up! As I have said before, if a change is to take place in islam, it will be because of people like you and not by hamidms and sameejbs who would have no credibility among the believers.

#205 by RationalFaith on December 11, 2003 12:15pm PT

Thanks for the encouraging words. Islam is the Need of the Hour and it is THE ONLY IDEA whose TIME has come. The rest is all failure and total disaster. I am humble and modest because I am seeing it HAPPENING. The Taghoot, Munkirat and Dajjaliat have all the given time to dominate, influence and present solutions to their own created crises.

la tufsidu fil Ardh, qalu ina ma nahnu Muslihoon


But in the end ja ul HAQ - zahuq al batl phenomenon has to happen.

It is not by Compulsion or Terrorism but sheer Victory of Truth and THE ULTIMATE TRUTH -ALLAH.

Try any Doctor or medicine - the cure is with MUHAMMAD and his Divine Doctrine - Islam.

My Open Challenge. Take your time and `do your best to prove it wrong`. The more your efforts the more the mess and less the time.

anew,

..... are you for real, or have you been planted by the zionist-hindoo enemies of the deen to discredit tahmed`s ``new and improved`` islam ?......... in any case, i like you because you are a perfect representation of the the mad mullah that i love to caricature! .............. unfortunately you do represent the ``real`` islam, and that is what makes this world a scary place to live in ! ............. it is not funny

##204 Anew
It is Man`s responsibility to be bread-earner. Woman is freed from this burden.
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Who made this distinction in the first place for everybody without asking? Second of all, what about women who are geniuses? Should the human race as a whole eschew the benefits of such genius or waste it because it is a ``man`s responsibility`` to ``earn bread``?

Maybe in your mind, it may not even be possible for a woman to be a genius because they are obviously so inferior. Right?

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I live in Pakistan and tell you honestly there is absolutely no restriction on women doing a job.
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I would like to hear the names of 10 woman fighter pilots or top scientists. Or a statistic supporting the absence of this restriction - social or otherwise.

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Even every thing goes as you desire still a lot of women in Pakistan will prefer staying home and concentrate on family affairs for being Eastern if not being Muslim.
##

Do you have a statistic or is this something Mullah Omar/Masood Azhar said during Friday prayers?