Broken Stones

Hi rahul-capri:

I understand what you are saying, but without the metaphors there would not have been the story, the way I wanted it. I did not want it to have a `centrality`, because the protagonist is so rudderless. I know that she has more to her...and she is lodged in my mind...

In a few of my responses here, I have explained several aspects, that is if you are interested. I must tell you that had I not clicked the past discussion to look for something on smebody else`s board, I might not have discovered this!

Thanks for your comments,
F

I liked the story,because of the vividity of the images that stay with you,and the metaphors.But thats what, to my mind,are its undoing .I have always believed that a good short story conveys one single central theme and everything else is incidental.Reading this, I find too many images leaping up at me-troubled childhood,disfunctional family,child molestation,prostitution.Perhaps they do metaphorically point to the central underlying theme,but here the metaphors seem to overpower the original theme.
There is material here for maybe three short stories, or a novelette.
Maybe I am being too finicky technical,but its just me.

Dear All,

I think this board has turned it self into a theological gutter. I feel as if I am in the dark ages with all those zealot creeps trying publish their slogans for the net ummah. I think this is no place for guys like me. bye.........

nasahsaab and vertex:

I am happy there are people who believe that extreme patriotism is akin to fascism. What I was trying to state in that article is essentially that the national identity of a disparate people needs a patriotic base on which secularism can be built. I am well aware that nationalism in our current context is a dangerous term, more abused than used.

[On another note, Secularism in India should not be about extinguishing religious identity`s...but about the fabrication of an entirely new notion of what being an Indian is that spans the religious divide...note the use of the word `new`... ]

One cannot extinguish religious identities, but the ``new`` notion could well be a miasma, unless there is a renaissance.

farzana,

Patriotism can be as dangerous as fundamentalism. The last few centuries tell us that Patriotism/Nationalism has in fact has a bloody history, and has the dread distinction of being the first `cause` that employed industrial techniques and all the other goodies of modernity for the sole purpose of killing other humans.

On another note, Secularism in India should not be about extinguishing religious identity`s...but about the fabrication of an entirely new notion of what being an Indian is that spans the religious divide...note the use of the word `new`...

``Secularism, in our contemporary context, is not a virtue.

It is a Necessity.

It should be propagated in the same way as family planning, self-reliance, ecology, health care and adult education, instead of a morally right position````(Farzana Versey)

Bless you inimitable Farzana!

``The best thing after patriotism is secularism``...... Achtung.... ..Achtung ...Beware ... Excess of Patriotism IS Fascism....

For anyone interested, the following column of mine is somewhat related to the subject...

Rediff On The Net, Life/Style: Farzana Versey believes that secularism is no longer a virtue, it`s a necessity.

---

The best thing after patriotism is secularism. Of course, one can conveniently, like the good English bishop, say, ``God said love your neighbour; he did not say love Marks and Spencer.``

Roughly translated into our context, it could mean we may tolerate the bloke next door for his saffron or green colour, but we do not have to suffer the whole damned community.

The problem is we think we are being grand.

Secularism, in our contemporary context, is not a virtue. It is a Necessity. It should be propagated in the same way as family planning, self-reliance, ecology, health care and adult education, instead of a morally right position.

Those who marry across religions must be given similar privileges as those reserved for the scheduled castes and tribes. Their offspring should be provided state backup, whether in education, health or taxation. In fact, the state must encourage private elite institutions where these children can be educated without being tainted by our national obsession with party vengeance.

For secularism to be a success, it must work on the principle of reward rather than punishment. Very often, in the course of trying to sweep away the dust, we tuck it under the carpet whereas a positive wind of change can gently blow it away.

To antagonize any community cannot be the motive of secularism. As has already been understood, religion circumscribes various other realities and, in the process, subsumes them. As one commentator pointed out, we mistakenly equate freedom of religion with freedom from religion. In the current situation, this is not universally accepted. Even an open Hindutva supporter permitted himself some magnanimity when he stated elsewhere, ``The Muslim belief in the finality of God`s revelation in the Koran and in Mohammed`s prophecy is at odds with the spirit of Indian civilisation. But Indian civilisation is large enough to accommodate it.``

Which is where the issue of small fundamentalist organizations and secularism arises. We have to see this in the context of minority power. Were a black person to marry a white person in a predominantly white community, the white person would get all the applause as well as have to bear the brunt of the backlash. Evolution itself depends largely on the numbers game. While the majority can contain others, (and must, for magnanimity is possible only when you have the largesse) the minority has problems containing itself.

For example, the Islamic Sevak Sangh had to pluck its members from the madrasas (religious schools) and unemployment rolls in Kerala. And its founder has stated, on record, that the Muslim League had done nothing for the Muslim community. But the RSS has always had considerable support from the BJP and VHP. In this combine, it could, at least until recently, be respected by a large section of the middle-class intelligentsia.

But religion per se cannot give anyone an identity in the fluctuating late 20th century society. It can only provide the much-dreaded moral fibre and a mistakenly-interpreted formula for living. Besides, it does colour our interpretation of the world.

(http://www.rediff.com/style/jun/16farz.htm)

Urstruly (#76):
What is wrong with the men of today? Why are they obsessed with the size of their penises and their cellphones? Why do they pimp for their wives/lovers? Why do they eat other men (cannibalism in Germany-recent report)? Why do they try to get muscles in places where they won`t be put to much use? Why do they curl their moustaches when they start losing hair? Why do they insist that baldness makes them sexy? I don`t think women have anything to do with it, so it does not make me feel guilty:)

Godot-bhai,
Not only am I not too bright, am also stunned that FV thinks my fitrat is dassing. All this while I thought she just ignored my posts!
Sound ``snake`` meister

What is wrong with the women today. Why they are so obbsessed with anorexia, bolimia, vomitting, suicide, death and prostitution. It seems that the women have stopped having nicer days in their lives. I think men have something to do with it - I don`t know what it is but whatever it is, it has started making me feel guilty. But on the other hand I think it is the wasted reminiscing of the good old days when women were saved by the knights on white horses. Gone are the days and gone are the knights. Pebbles have grown into stones.

Farzana, 65

You are right. He`s not very bright. Case closed. Moving on.

Hi Harpreet:
Wow, one sentence and you are out....:) Wassup?

ana:
I know what imagery I used, but it is wonderful when someone breathes new life into it. Or sees that turning as sharper than I thought it would appear...thanks for this and that!

godot:
``Jiski fitrat hi dasnaa ho
Woh tau dasegaa mat socha kar.``

This shair should be a mantra...so I suggest that you ignore and move on...

Godot,

Awwww

---

you missed me!!!

---

am so touched :))))

Kisses,
sound

Ferzoo,
finally. . .i come to this and read it giving myself more time (which i never seem to have anymore).

this is so rich, i think, with imagery. . .and when i`ve just had a moment for a quick read, that`s all i`ve thought. . .and yes, you do show the utter helplessness of Taraana (a name i`ve always liked, by the way). . .taraana uncomprehending the music. . .was an irony that said much more to me than not understanding what was being played at the time.

and i`ll repeat what i said in my ilog. . .writing from where you are doesn`t necessarily translate into you are what you write. . .a distinction many readers just don`t seem to get.

love, ana

Farzana

Some good lines and arresting imagery in this story.

:)

Farzana, re #53

That repulsive sound
Where one found
A meister braying
For a piece of turd praying
He has been hungry a while
Hasn’t been seen a while
For a donkey that he is
High on turd, deluded himself a stallion he is
Unaware how ugly and repulsive he is
Alas, an ignorant jackass he is

And further...
This is not about FV. Abbajaan is the grandfather and for those who do understand metaphors he stands for a past Taraana seems to be fascinated by. It is clear enough when the narrator states, ``I could sense history in that imaginary room, feel connected with a past I never had and he with a future he never would.``

re: #58

...not until there are jihadis like ali1 crawling around...

rsaxena#55:
Could you please leave this kind of language at `unplugged`? Thanks!

Mahesh:
One correction: This is not an article, it is fiction.

I found it interesting that you came up with this: ``Does Taraana`s fantasies about being a prostitute have any relation to the underlying theme about Hindu-Muslim animosity?``

I am afraid I will have to use loaded terms to explain it...the prostitute does stand for the objectification of the innocent. In this case, Taraana is the innocent who becomes an object of the animosity, although she aligns with neither side. Worse, she cannot do so... it is the utter helplessness.

ali ki gaand may aag lagi phir say - this time it is a paki...enjoy muahahahah

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm

The strategic imbalance

By Irfan Husain

The recent flap about the news that India is rehabilitating and upgrading an air base in Tajikistan concentrated minds briefly on the growing strategic threat to Pakistan.

Although the Tajik government has denied that the agreement with India is aimed at Pakistan, the presence of Indian air force and army personnel at Farkhor has rung alarm bells at GHQ. In fact, these bells have been ringing for quite some time. Consider the following:

* The agreement between India and Israel to procure Phalcon AWACS (Airborne Warning And Control System) aircraft. Apart from the massive force-multiplication effect this system provides, it is significant that Washington has approved the deal when it had earlier put its foot down on a similar sale to China. Pakistan has threatened to buy equivalent aircraft, but the fact is that apart from the US, Israel and Russia, nobody else manufactures them.

* India is committed to spend $250 million in Afghanistan on the reconstruction of Afghanistan. This kind of money buys a lot of influence in Kabul, specially when the Karzai government is suspicious of Pakistani intentions and routinely accuses it of giving aid and shelter to the Taliban who continue to launch attacks in the border areas from sanctuaries located on Pakistani soil.

* Iran has signed an agreement with India giving its navy the use of its port at Bander Abbas in case of war with Pakistan.

* India currently has a $10 billion arms acquisition programme under which it is procuring, among other items, a Russian aircraft carrier with up to 66 Mig-29 fighters; 50 SU-30 fighters; three guided missile frigates; and 200 cruise missiles. Many other items are on the Indian shopping list.

* Our neighbour is building a satellite with a 2.5 meter resolution. Equipment for this spy satellite will be procured from Israel.

* China and India held an unprecedented joint naval exercise recently.

More alarming than these specific items and agreements and the growing strategic imbalance these imply for Pakistan is the increasing isolation we face today. Traditional friends and allies like Iran and China are rapidly improving ties with India, and despite the soothing words that follow these steps, the fact is that many of these developments have been to our detriment. Our generals` pipedreams of `strategic depth` in Afghanistan and Central Asia went up in smoke long ago.

A major reason for the Soviet Union`s collapse is that at the end of the day, it simply could not match American developments and spending on defence. Its inefficient economy finally collapsed under the pressure of generating the funds necessary for the Soviets to match the Pentagon`s massive and continuing outlays. In short, the USSR was out-spent by its superpower rival.

Before 9/11, there was genuine and well-founded concern that Pakistan would default on its international obligations, but thanks to the infusion of dollars that followed the attacks on the Twin Towers, the economy is afloat again, if scarcely buoyant. However, the impressive speed at which the Indian economy is expanding means that our neighbour will be able to easily out-spend us well into the foreseeable future.

And it is not just the size of the Indian economy that is growing; its composition is also changing. Investment in high-tech fields is providing a major boost: according to Arun Shourie, the Indian minister for disinvestment, 100 of the Fortune 500 companies now have R & D operations in India. Not one of them has invested in research in Pakistan. In a speech made last year, he also informed his audience that Rover of Britain had entered into an agreement to market 100,000 Indian cars manufactured by Tata under its label in Europe.

These random snippets of information are not intended to cause alarm and despondency. The idea is to show the direction our neighbour is heading, and to point out a simple fact: Pakistan simply cannot compete with India in the arena of economics. From this flows the obvious conclusion that we cannot match Indian expenditure on defence. Forget parity: we cannot even maintain our traditional posture of minimum deterrence for very long at the rate at which the strategic balance is shifting against us.

Another doctrine drummed into our young men from the day they enter the armed forces is that one Muslim soldier can take on ten Hindus. Apart from overlooking the inconvenient fact that a large number of Muslims proudly wear Indian uniforms, modern warfare is mostly about high-tech weapons launched from a distance to devastating effect. If nothing else, the lesson we ought to have learned from the American campaign of `shock and awe` in Iraq is that courage is no substitute for cruise missiles.

War games played out in America have indicated time after time that an Indian thrust into Pakistan would succeed in cutting the country in two within days, leaving our leaders little option but to go nuclear. This is a suicidal path nobody in his right mind should even contemplate. The Indian retaliation and the ensuing radiation will obliterate much of Pakistan. The fact that leaders on both sides of the border have been rattling their nuclear sabres is an indication of what passes for leadership in our part of the world.

Whenever I have discussed this topic with friends, they have agreed with the facts, but then have stepped back from accepting the inescapable conclusion: we cannot allow Kashmir to hold us hostage forever. Both internally and externally, this single dispute has damaged our core interests more than anything else these last 55 years.

Understandably, it is difficult for the politicians and generals to undo a policy they have been touting for decades. But common sense dictates that there are few options. We must accept the reality and tackle the real issues of poverty and ignorance that confront us which the successive governments have been unable to address largely because of lack of resources.

Aay pattharon Aaaj meray sar pay barastay kiyoon ho

Mein nay tum ko bhi kabhi apna kuda rakha hai...

#52 FarzanaVersey

Thanks F.

I liked the writing but felt the article had discontinuities.

Does Taraana`s fantasies about being a prostitute have any relation to the underlying theme about Hindu-Muslim animosity?

Oh lordy lord
I can`t believe my ears
Ferzie gets soppy
`bout bonkin` her poppy
And everyone breaks into cheers!

Jawahara, always good to get positive (and even negative) feedback from you...how are you?

Skept, glad you liked it...

soysauce:
[I think a part of the reason this piece was not evocative for me is that the actual events have been more outrageous than any fiction. So you`re starting out with a handicap.]

As I said in an earlier interact, I did not want the riots to become a character, and I did not want to capture the outrageousness at all...I suppose you are not used to my underplaying :)

Mahesh:
[What is the last line supposed to signify ``Sister, sister, do pebbles also grow up to become stones?``]

It follows the nurse telling her that when she grows up she can become a heroine...it is really just a way to pacify her...but for Taraana, who has just discovered her `nothingness` through the hurling of stones wonders where they came from. Does growth have to be negative? Do inanimate objects also have a life of their own and `grow up` to cause havoc?

saman:
You are right...

ali_1 #40,

Hmmm....presumably, worshipping a piece of rock in the Middle East is far superior
than Paganism ?

yagacho #25,

``also, let me point out, a brave person fights one on one and does not
need the police/PAC/CRPF and the whole bloody state to cover his ass.``

What are we, two-bit gangsters trying to own the mohalla ? What does
bravery have to do with any of the nonsense that happened in Gujarat ?

Hi Farzana,

The writing was nice but I didn`t understand the ending. What is the last line supposed to signify ``Sister, sister, do pebbles also grow up to become stones?``

Farzana,
``We always remember what we need to forget.``
And pay a price too.
The price for remembering this year is a dozen odd dead, loot and arson and curfew in the old city of Hyderabad. Not to forget fear and tension.
Wish we could simply remember instead of remembering in mourning by some and celebration by others.

As for UC, now how did I get that so wrong?!
Regards.

#44 ali_1

The nice thing about nuts like you is that it takes very little to have you slip and expose your hate filled insides. Now you have done so and shown us our prejudice-filled ugly interior!. While it is sad to be forced to view such a disgusting thing in public, at the same time it rips off your hypocritical mask and exposed you for the low-life that you are.

I can rest now that my job here is done.

ali_1

I am sure you must feel good everytime we animal and genital worshippers, human sacrifices, gao muthra abultioners breat the crap out of you :)

Farzana, guess I`m in the miniscule minority. This is not one of your better pieces. The story telling is strained and the flow feels very artificial.
I think a part of the reason this piece was not evocative for me is that the actual events have been more outrageous than any fiction. So you`re starting out with a handicap. Some of it also reads autobiographical (a curse that almost all story tellers have to live with) and I find that distracting. That could be just me.

pmishra2

[``Till then, you can keep vomiting up your intolerance and disrespect for other traditions in public. ``]

pmishra2,

While you can vomit your diarrhea of hatred all over chowk.com, you feel bad if your own traditions are questioned? What is so sacrosanct about your traditions? What is so glorious about animal and genital worship, human sacrifice, gao muthra abultion and so many other pagan collection of practices that you label as your religion?

PS. Saying ``Inshallah`` has sullied your mouth. You`ll now have to gargle with you know what.

Farzana, you write very well. :)

#41 ali_1

I can see that you are an excellent candidate for the trishuls. Inshallah, that will happen sooner than later. Till then, you can keep vomiting up your intolerance and disrespect for other traditions in public.

Farzana, I really liked this. Multi-layered, multi-textured and so very well written. I look forward to reading more fiction from you.

pmishra2 #35

[``Mahmood is quoted as replying: ``]

In addition to the can of kerosene and the six foot trishul, quotations from Mahmood are an important part of a Hindutva thugs` arsenal. Is there anything Indian Muslims can do to appease these cowardly thugs? They are already poor, unemployed, marginalized and brutalized, and on top of that these racist criminals want to flog them with quotations from Mahmood.

From a Pakistani point of view, Mahmood left the job incomplete. He concentrated on looting the temples where as he should`ve focused on liberating the untouchables and shudras and finishing off this pathetic idiocy of a religion. I think Portuguese did an admirable job in Goa. Europe, South East Asia and the Middle East have been largely cleansed of all forms of paganism. People of Indian sub-continent unfortunately were destined to suffer this despicable ignominy forever.

``Remember that Islam means peace and that Mohammed was pretty much a founder of Amnesty International``

HA HA HA HA HA HA!


Still, you shouldn`t raise too many questions about studebabaker. You will take away the only reason many Pakistanis deeply admire the guy, that he hates everything about India except its rape by the followers of Mohammad.

Ferz:

…thanks for the explanation (#37) … reluctantly…(I still have strong reservations about first person narration)…I will agree with you:)… this will be an exception...

(and the reader is not always right!)

the metaphors were powerful and poetic…and transcending…that makes for lasting beauty…should someone dig this story up in a hundred years from now they will still enjoy it…

…We are persuaded into doing what we want to but are simply too lazy :)…
thanks for reminding…procrastination being a hallmark…just too dear…therefore…have no qualms about shelving this project for other things…will put this back in queue;)…thanks again

…t

Thank you everyone. I am overwhelmed and since most of you have liked it, I must have done something good. This does not mean one cannot do better…however, although there is a craftless craft in here, I wanted it to be raw and I know this is what has struck a chord. I have been fairly satisfied with the effort, but since complacency has never been a part of me, I do appreciate the couple of comments pointing out certain flaws.

HN (#26):

Harish, your praise is important, for it comes from being a writer and a constructive critic.

Let me answer a few of your questions…
[Dilineated a few recurring connections in your writing, how a lot of your pieces have a spine of questions that are woven like a spiral binding that holds the pages of the narrative. As much in your opinion pieces, as in your journal entries, and this short story. Any reflection on that?]

I suppose it comes from not knowing the answers. I am serious. This story arose precisely due to this reason. The narrative is an internal monologue, and that would answer your other query about using the first person. I can and do use third-person narrative, but here it would have become too self-conscious …and Taraana would not have come alive; only the ‘I’ can portray such numbness, confusion and loneliness. Had I used ‘she’, it would have turned out to be a more political story, for the writer would then be at liberty to impose views. The narrator here has ‘no views’ and is really existing in an empty shell. Besides, unlike what temporal says about it being the easy way out, I do not believe that the first-person narrative is such a bad idea. The only worry is that it could be seen as autobiographical, and I am pleasantly surprised that no one has brought this up (including godot!) – it would have been seen as the most obvious thing, isn’t it? So…is it?

Let us just say, the reader is always right :)

[I was therefore looking closely for BaaraTi MeiNon`s speech patterns...and felt you did not bring your usual attention to the subject that you do.]

You are probably right here regarding the intonation, though having spent a good deal of time in Kerala (and I like Mallus, ironman!) I should have known better. The half-sentence was perhaps to make it cryptic, conversational…

Thanks for seeing the story as a “whiff”…I have used many metaphors here– the breaking of the vase, the vomit, the film star-prostitute interplay, the comatose grandfather, death…I do hope they managed to convey without ‘stating’.

And you read my ilogs?! That makes it two of us…

temporal (#32):

While the term “yarn” does mean story, it is often used to indicate a tall story. Surely, this was not unbelievable? I have talked about the first-person narrative in my reply to Harish.

[...the first slice is by far better]

I suppose so, in terms of gathering momentum…the meandering in the middle was deliberate, for Taraana is rudderless. Someone asked me why I had made her an orphan. For me, there was no other way to express how one part of her heritage has been completely taken away from her (the creator, the very womb) and her not quite belonging to the other (provider, cocoon), and how nothing quite protects her from being what she is. What is her identity? I wonder if you noticed the deaths of her mother and father – both died at about the same time and yet the question arose as to who killed whom. Did history kill identity or did identity die trying to reach out to history?

[…felt the stones are not broken…if anything, they are Unbroken Stones…they are growing unbroken stones…but then perhaps am influenced by the story and thinking outside of its tight knit realm…a risk not unknown to the writer perhaps?...]

No, unbroken stones would not work, for stones are unbroken. ‘Broken stones’ is what this story is about…I think Veeresh put it really well when he said, “What other way is there to build, other than to break stones and use them?”

PS: […and on another…the ismat tape…am revising the urdu transcript…next will be rendering it in English…then will see how it looks…might have to edit it down…why did I let you talk me into it;)]

Ask yourself. We are persuaded into doing what we want to but are simply too lazy :)

…F

And to those of you who sent emails, the ones I don’t know…well, thanks a ton, but would have been nice to have more interacts here!

Farzana,

Good read.

From your very detailed knowledge of the keralite accent (Baaarati, Ess, Kyerala, Naiss, phor, oliday, aukay,pitchers, heroin)...all correct...`esscept` for baaarati which would have an `h` after t)....I conclude you`ve had close interaction with them...or that you have good cause to hate them...or both!

Can it be poor Jay ;)

- - - - - - -

Keralites are famous for mixing their `O`s and `A`s.

Joe is pronounced `jaw`...and jaw is pronounced `joe`!

;)

#21 Alpana

No, we don`t need the Elst and Gautier`s of the world to help us. We just need to look around North India and realize a remarkable fact. That not a single historic hindu or buddhist structure of any antiquity survives there, other than mosques !!! A few caves and ``hidden`` temples may be found here or there but other than that they have all been vandalized or destroyed. And this is in INDIA. I won`t even refer to the cultural genocide that has taken place in jihadistan with a systematic and complete erasure of the original culture, which even Hitler would have admired.

Here is quote taken from this Sunday`s DAWN, written by an honest pakistani intellectual.

[quote]
Going back in history, Hindu extremists now openly talk of getting even for the centuries of Muslim invasions and dominance. The destruction of Babri Masjid in Ayodhya was an expression of this growing expression of Hindu nationalism. Zakaria says that Mahmood of Ghazni`s depredations into India a thousand years ago had little to do with Islam and were basically expeditions aimed at loot and plunder. However, Ferishta`s monumental History of the Rise of the Mahomedan Power in India, translated into English by John Briggs in 1829, tells a different story. According to Ferishta, on an expedition to India in 1011, Mahmood was informed about a Hindu holy city called Tahnesur and determined to conquer it. Raja Anundpal sent his brother with an offer of ``fifty elephants and jewels of a considerable amount`` apart from meeting the cost of the expedition if Mahmood would spare Tahnesur.

Mahmood is quoted as replying: ``The religion of the faithful inculcates the following tenet: `That in proportion as the tenets of the Prophet (PBUH) are diffused, and his followers exert themselves in the subversion of idolatry, so shall be their reward in heaven; that, therefore, it behoved him, with the assistance of God, to root out the worship of idols from the face of all India. How then should he spare Tahnesur?``
[end-quote]

Remember that Islam means peace and that Mohammed was pretty much a founder of Amnesty International. Or at least that is what Karen Armstrong and CAIR would have you believe..

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ferzi:

a good yarn…debated whether should plead the fifth and stay away or say something here…

…think i will…

...you can do better…yes, you mentioned this is a slice of life…and life being uneven!...

...the first slice is by far better…with wry and penetrating observations: …with time became a connoisseur of the genuine and a critic of the fake… where everyone was my own, but no one was mine… a man old enough to be dead….feel connected with a past I never had and he with a future he never would…

…perhaps it is my personal take…but i do feel first person narrations are often the easy way out…harish has alluded to it also…but that is a device the writer decides…how would this appear in the third person?...will it lose its bite?...will more dimensions be added?...i don’t know…yet…

…felt the stones are not broken…if anything, they are Unbroken Stones…they are growing unbroken stones…but then perhaps am influenced by the story and thinking outside of its tight knit realm…a risk not unknown to the writer perhaps?...

…on another note…the length encourages me to rethink submitting ‘half a confession’ to chowk…perhaps in one piece…perhaps divided in two parts…will see…

…and on another…the ismat tape…am revising the urdu transcript…next will be rendering it in English…then will see how it looks…might have to edit it down…why did I let you talk me into it;)

bspnd

t

ps: sammi yaar what is this with the Author bit?...she has a name:)

#9 by fountainheader on December 6, 2003 0:13am PT

Oh please...we know bhaiyya really means brother...but we all know a bhaiyya is a UPiite/Bihari/MPer..

and madrasi in bombay means south Indian..

So? What is your point? I was referring to dost-mittar`s question about the word ``ghati``.

And by the way, everyone talks about how ``Madrasi`` means South Indian in Mumbai even though Madras is just a city in South India. Has it occured to anyone that it is a term that dates back to pre-independence Mumbai, and in those days, the whole of South India was in fact called Madras, i.e the Madras Presidency.

re: Farzana

Bravo on the article. It was simply human and more endearing for the questions it asked.

Ciao

fountainheader:
Thanks for explaining the meaning of ghati. Rohinton Mistry uses it quite frequently in his stories. Incidentally, most of the Maharashtrians, I have met in Ottawa -both ghatis and konkanis- are lighter skinned than North Indians, even Panjabis. It may be because they are almost all brahmins!

Farzana,

A very good narrative. Liked it very much. Peppered as it with the sharply observed, and precisely delivered lines. Dilineated a few recurring connections in your writing, how a lot of your pieces have a spine of questions that are woven like a spiral binding that holds the pages of the narrative. As much in your opinion pieces, as in your journal entries, and this short story. Any reflection on that?

A question of personal interest. Have you got stories/c fiction without the ``I.`` I have tried and found the battle still raging. I have managed to use this negative capability in poetry, but in fiction, not at all to my satisfaction.

One nit I found, is really very small and last and least in your story., I have read with great admiration your feel for intonation. In your interracts sometimes, in your ilogs often. You have shown a remarkable ability to broing the laryngal intonation of English spoken by various communities very well. The Parsi, the Punjabi,. the Gujarati...etc. I was therefore looking closely for BaaraTi MeiNon`s speech patterns...and felt you did not bring your usual attention to the subject that you do. There have been times, in other pieces where you use speech patterns of communities, that you have reminded me of passages from ``Angela`s Ashes,`` Frank McCourt`s funny sweet book about an Irish childhood. I remember Bina menytioning it as one of her favourite book.

Most mallus stress Y in theirs Yesses...and and there is extra stress on LLL...an amalgum of three ells and a unique ``LLLah`` of the Malayalam language. In malayalam itself, the first ell is a single ell, but the last is the USP of Malayalam language.

Also, I felt it overlapped with Goan???perhaps speech patterns, than malayaali English. And most do not use half phrases as sentences, because their English tends to be hothoused inside schools. Just a thought, maybe I am wroing here.

Enjoyed this for its freshness, and change. And the whiff that is singularly the hallmark of your prose.

Harish

Farzana, I`m afraid I didn`t much care for your story, and that`s not because of it`s obvious political content, but because I didn`t enjoy it from the ``literary`` point of view. Opinions may vary on what happened at Ayodhya, and your sympathy for the girl`s loss of her heritage is understandable, but there`ve been far better short stories (even one by Shobha De, of all people) on the subject. So do go ahead and write fiction, but try to polish up the stories a bit more, to make them more readable.

yagacho

Hinduism preaches peace and tolerance. That does not mean that Hindus will always be peaceful, or always be tolerant of everybody.

There are certain people and certain things that Hindus will not be tolerant of any more. You`d better get used to it.

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veeresh,

given that hindus are so peace loving and hinduism is nothing but tolerance, how do we explain the following report by Human Rights Watch on Gujarat massacares committed by some peace loving hindus:

---

``Attackers also destroyed Dargahs, traditional meeting grounds for Hindus and Muslims and razed mosques. In some cases makeshift Hindu temples were erected in their place. In many places saffron flags, the signature flag of Hindu nationalist groups, were dug deep into mosque domes. Roughly twenty mosques were destroyed in Ahmedabad alone, many on March 1 during Friday prayers. Even historical monuments were not spared. According to the preliminary report of an Indian human rights fact-finding team:

The famous 500-year-old masjid in Isanpur, which was an ASI [Archeological Survey of India] monument, was destroyed with the help of cranes and bulldozers. The famous Urdu Poet Wali Gujarati`s dargah was also razed to the ground at Shahibaug in Ahmedabad. While a hanuman [a Hindu god] shrine was built over its debris initially, all that was removed overnight and the plot was [paved] and merged with the adjoining road. No authority claimed any knowledge about the entire episode. ``

``Dozens of witnesses interviewed by Human Rights Watch described almost identical operations. The attackers arrived by the thousands in trucks, clad in saffron scarves and khaki shorts, the signature uniform of Hindu nationalist, or Hindutva, groups. Shouting slogans of incitement to kill, they were armed with swords, trishuls, 65 sophisticated explosives, and gas cylinders. Guided by computer printouts listing the addresses of Muslim families and their properties, information obtained from the Ahmedabad municipal corporation among other sources, they embarked on a murderous rampage. In many cases, the police led the charge, aiming and firing at Muslims who got in the mobs` way ``

---

also, let me point out, a brave person fights one on one and does not need the police/PAC/CRPF and the whole bloody state to cover his ass.

Great readable article as always, Farzana. As for 6th December, can we get along with life, please? I am neither here nor there on this subject, and would rather the Armed Forces build a hospital cum paraplegic rehab centre on the site, thus doing some good to the twin cities of Ayodhya/Faizabad.

And just btw, Farzana, since I presume you have been to Ayodhya/Faizabad twin cities, have you, truly, seen any other Hindu/Muslim twin city like this? I mean, Faizabad is full of mosques which are used by Muslims, has even one been touched? There is something about this complete Ayodhya thing where, IMHO, the foreign as well as Indian media to a large extent parrots a standard line . . . ``oh look at the rabid Hindu there``.

Here is something from Francois Gautier which you may like to read (in the English version):-

```` What one has to grasp is that Ayodhya only makes sense when the immense harm the Muslims did to India is not negated, as indeed it has been and still is today, whether in Kashmir, where the last Hindus were made to flee in terror, or in Afghanistan, where the entire Hindu community was made to leave by the Mujahedins, without the world batting an eyelid, or in Bangladesh, where the crowds still regularly go on rampage against Hindus and their temples (as told by a Bangladeshi Muslim herself, Talisma Nasreen). It is in this light, that it becomes extraordinary for an impartial observer to see today that when for once, the Hindus wanted to displace, not even to destroy, ONE mosque and rebuild the ``temple``, which they believe was built in this particular place, for one of their most cherished Gods, the one which is loved universally by all, men, women, children, THEY are treated as rabid fundamentalists. The great Mughals must be laughing all the way down their graves! What a reversal of situation! What a turnabout of history! And when the mosque was destroyed, it evoked such fiery reactions, such pompous, overblown, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, atrocious, ridiculous, sly and totally undeserved outrage, both within India and in the Western world (who should be the last one to give lessons to India), that the importance of Ayodhya as a symbol has been totally overlooked.

The obvious trap is to think that the demolition of the mosque in Ayodhya is something to gloat about and that it is the duty of all good Hindus to see that other important mosques at Mathura, Vanarasi, or elsewhere, be also razed to the ground; or that all cities with a Muslim name be renamed with a Hindu one. This is not true Hinduism, which has always shown its tolerance and accepted in its fold other creeds and faiths. Indeed a true ``Indu`` India will be secular in the correct sense of the term: it will give freedom to each religion, each culture, so that it develops itself in the bosom of a Greater India, of which dharma, true spirituality, will be the cementing factor.

Nevertheless, the destruction of the Babri Masjid, however unfortunate, has made its point: the occult Mughal hold over Hindu India has been broken and centuries of Hindu submission erased. Hindus have proved that they too can fight. ````

+++

Ghatee? Wouldn`t call a person ghatee so easily. Many South Indians, fed up of being called ``Madrasi`` for generations now, have started calling all non-turban North Indians ``Bihai``.

What a life.

+++

What other way is there to build, other than to break stones and use them?

This piece for some reason keeps conjuring up black and white images of the days of yore. Really enjoyed it. Someday you`ll win something real big.......if your prophecy in the first line doesn`t come true i.e...........................

later
-sac

.......... i almost stopped reading after the first sentence, ``Last night I tried to kill myself``.......... here we go again, i thought ....... but i am glad i read on ......... simply wonderful!

Good one Farzana jee....and contrary to your fears the interacts so far suggest that good fiction is also welcome on this cyber dargah of ours :)

Best.

Farzana

Let me add to the praise. You are a good writer. When your mind is not wandering too much you should take a few months off and turn in a novel. Good work.

regards

you finally discovered yourself -- Farazana Versey

bravo

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simply marvelous! stunning! splendid! fabulous!

Farzana, 8

``phir hum bhi keh saktey they ke kisi ne hamare liye nazm/ghazal/shair likha hai...``

You can still say that. Consider it a little ``decent`` poem I wrote for you.

No, I don`t care about the writers, it`s the writings that I like or dislike...you maybe the only exception.

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Author,

There are some amazing lines and ideas here. The first four paragraphs are unbelievably good.

``and of this near-dead man`` is better as ``a nearly dead man``

The narrator is particularly compelling-would be interested in reading more/about her.

And is my reading of this binary of the Hindu/Muslim/sex worker/film star correct?

Just wondering...

Etymology of the word - ghati

The word ghati has two meanings, depending on whether you are a Maharashtrian or not. Within Maharashtrians, this term was used to refer to the people who live in the Western ghats, i. e mainly the Western non-coastal part of Maharashtra. Like people from Konkan are called Konkani. The residents of cities like Pune, Nasik, Satara etc would be called ghatis since these cities are located in the ghats.

However non-Maharashtrians refer to all Maharashtrians as ghatis. This mainly started in Mumbai, where most of the Maharashtrians were those who migrated from the ghats.

When non-marathis use it, it is a semi-derogatory term.

However it really has no economic, social or caste-based significant. A poor fisherman in Konkan, a farmer in Central Maharashtra are as ``qualified`` to be called ``ghati``, as the Rahul Dravids, Sachin Tendulkars and Sharad Pawars of this world.

In fact going by the name, `Savita Damle` would be a Konkanastha Brahmin woman, and would not be doing badly socially or economically. If anything, a Damle would look down upon Muslims, in the traditional scheme of things.

The term ``ghati`` was mainly used by Gujaratis, especially during the 50s and 60s when there was a struggle between the two ethnicities for which state Bombay would be a part of. However over the years, it has sort of achieved a non-offensive status.

This is the first time I took courage to publish my fiction. I have been sitting on it for a year, but there was something holding me back. I would occasionally look at it, go over a few lines and then put it to sleep. I have come in early to interact because I know that not many people want to read fiction at Chowk and fewer want to interact on my board if they like something I have written!

arjun_m:
``I had forgotten that my mother was a Hindu, a “ghaati” they had called her.`` With these lines Taraana is merely stating how removed she was from one part of her heritage, and the little she knew was how her mother was addressed.

bts:
Thank you.

Fountainheader:
Life itself is sado-masochistic, isn`t it?

godot:
If you had broken up the fist sentence, it would have made for a decent poem...phir hum bhi keh saktey they ke kisi ne hamare liye nazm/ghazal/shair likha hai...

Re. being ``the best``, without resorting to any fake humility, I do believe it is a relative term; we are just different kinds of writers. So you like my kind. Bohat shukria :)

dost-mittarji:
Once when I had done a real good job of scraping off dead skin from a friend`s feet, she said I could become a pedicurist...ab kya-kya ban jaaye...but your encouragement is important. But please let me continue with political analysis!

[...I am not an expert in these matters but I think that the plot could have been strengthened and made more taut in the middle; the riot did not seem to be fully integrated into the plot.
...and finally, does ghati refer to all Maharashtrians or to a particular caste or district in it?]

This is no excuse, but I wanted the narrative to meander. I did not want the riot to become a `character`; I wanted it internalised in Taraana and Abbaji, representing tomorrow and yesterday and how intertwined they are.

`Ghati` refers to Maharashtrians, but is used in a derogatory manner as it is a term used to address people of lower economic/social standing.

samankhan:
Glad you liked it. Novel? I need to discipline my mind, it goes off in too many directions.
Uppercrust? That is not me. I am Farzana Versey everywhere, for better or worse!

Regards,
Farzana

Jesus, woman you can write and with a fury which is not odious! To say that I had goose bumps reading this would be an understatement.

To say well done would be inappropriate as I am not in possession of even of a grain to talent to fully comprehend what I have just read.

Farzana,
Awsome................Ever thought of writing a novel?
No doubt you are doing a wonderfully tremenduous/tremenduously wonderful job with Upper Crust, but do give a thought to writing a novel.
Regards,
Saman Khan.

Ab tau ghabra ke yeh kehte hain ke mar jayenge
Mar ke bhi na chain paaya tau kidhar jayenge!

Dear Farzana:
Forget about political analysis, fiction is your real forte! You have a powerful imagination, a way with weaving words, emotions dripping from them and you describe feelings very well. I especially liked Tarana`s fantasising alternately being a glamourous star and a kothewali. Not a far-fetched combination, if you remember that some of the most glamourous stars of yester years honed their skills at kotha.
...I am not an expert in these matters but I think that the plot could have been strengthened and made more taut in the middle; the riot did not seem to be fully integrated into the plot.
...and finally, does ghati refer to all Maharashtrians or to a particular caste or district in it?

Very good story.

The most pithy line - ``We always remember what we need to forget.``

Everyone keeps ruminating over December 6.
The Hindus do it out of sadism.
The Muslims do it out of masochism.
And December 6 gets a devilish tribute during every riot, a riot being nothing but the pinnacle of sado-masochism.

Farzana

So gross, yet so refined; so ugly, yet so beautiful; so grotesque, yet so elegant; so furious, yet so tranquil; so indignant, yet so empathetic; so stern, and yet so funny...

Farzana, you’re a walking volcano, ready to explode...you’re by far the best writer at Chowk. Hats off...

...........................

no words. I feel the numbness.

I have no doubts in stating that this is one of the best contemporary short story that I have read in recent past.

In a word `Terrific`

Bilal

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