Farzana Versey December 5, 2003
#76 Posted by FarzanaVersey on May 11, 2004 12:58:56 pm
Hi rahul-capri:
I understand what you are saying, but without the metaphors there would not have been the story, the way I wanted it. I did not want it to have a `centrality`, because the protagonist is so rudderless. I know that she has more to her...and she is lodged in my mind...
In a few of my responses here, I have explained several aspects, that is if you are interested. I must tell you that had I not clicked the past discussion to look for something on smebody else`s board, I might not have discovered this!
Thanks for your comments,
F
I understand what you are saying, but without the metaphors there would not have been the story, the way I wanted it. I did not want it to have a `centrality`, because the protagonist is so rudderless. I know that she has more to her...and she is lodged in my mind...
In a few of my responses here, I have explained several aspects, that is if you are interested. I must tell you that had I not clicked the past discussion to look for something on smebody else`s board, I might not have discovered this!
Thanks for your comments,
F
#75 Posted by rahul_capri on May 6, 2004 1:24:02 pm
I liked the story,because of the vividity of the images that stay with you,and the metaphors.But thats what, to my mind,are its undoing .I have always believed that a good short story conveys one single central theme and everything else is incidental.Reading this, I find too many images leaping up at me-troubled childhood,disfunctional family,child molestation,prostitution.Perhaps they do metaphorically point to the central underlying theme,but here the metaphors seem to overpower the original theme.
There is material here for maybe three short stories, or a novelette.
Maybe I am being too finicky technical,but its just me.
There is material here for maybe three short stories, or a novelette.
Maybe I am being too finicky technical,but its just me.
#74 Posted by ballukhan on December 15, 2003 1:09:20 am
Dear All,
I think this board has turned it self into a theological gutter. I feel as if I am in the dark ages with all those zealot creeps trying publish their slogans for the net ummah. I think this is no place for guys like me. bye.........
I think this board has turned it self into a theological gutter. I feel as if I am in the dark ages with all those zealot creeps trying publish their slogans for the net ummah. I think this is no place for guys like me. bye.........
#73 Posted by FarzanaVersey on December 14, 2003 11:36:06 pm
nasahsaab and vertex:
I am happy there are people who believe that extreme patriotism is akin to fascism. What I was trying to state in that article is essentially that the national identity of a disparate people needs a patriotic base on which secularism can be built. I am well aware that nationalism in our current context is a dangerous term, more abused than used.
[On another note, Secularism in India should not be about extinguishing religious identity`s...but about the fabrication of an entirely new notion of what being an Indian is that spans the religious divide...note the use of the word `new`... ]
One cannot extinguish religious identities, but the ``new`` notion could well be a miasma, unless there is a renaissance.
I am happy there are people who believe that extreme patriotism is akin to fascism. What I was trying to state in that article is essentially that the national identity of a disparate people needs a patriotic base on which secularism can be built. I am well aware that nationalism in our current context is a dangerous term, more abused than used.
[On another note, Secularism in India should not be about extinguishing religious identity`s...but about the fabrication of an entirely new notion of what being an Indian is that spans the religious divide...note the use of the word `new`... ]
One cannot extinguish religious identities, but the ``new`` notion could well be a miasma, unless there is a renaissance.
#72 Posted by vertex on December 14, 2003 11:19:58 am
farzana,
Patriotism can be as dangerous as fundamentalism. The last few centuries tell us that Patriotism/Nationalism has in fact has a bloody history, and has the dread distinction of being the first `cause` that employed industrial techniques and all the other goodies of modernity for the sole purpose of killing other humans.
On another note, Secularism in India should not be about extinguishing religious identity`s...but about the fabrication of an entirely new notion of what being an Indian is that spans the religious divide...note the use of the word `new`...
Patriotism can be as dangerous as fundamentalism. The last few centuries tell us that Patriotism/Nationalism has in fact has a bloody history, and has the dread distinction of being the first `cause` that employed industrial techniques and all the other goodies of modernity for the sole purpose of killing other humans.
On another note, Secularism in India should not be about extinguishing religious identity`s...but about the fabrication of an entirely new notion of what being an Indian is that spans the religious divide...note the use of the word `new`...
#71 Posted by nasah on December 13, 2003 12:54:08 pm
``Secularism, in our contemporary context, is not a virtue.
It is a Necessity.
It should be propagated in the same way as family planning, self-reliance, ecology, health care and adult education, instead of a morally right position````(Farzana Versey)
Bless you inimitable Farzana!
``The best thing after patriotism is secularism``...... Achtung.... ..Achtung ...Beware ... Excess of Patriotism IS Fascism....
It is a Necessity.
It should be propagated in the same way as family planning, self-reliance, ecology, health care and adult education, instead of a morally right position````(Farzana Versey)
Bless you inimitable Farzana!
``The best thing after patriotism is secularism``...... Achtung.... ..Achtung ...Beware ... Excess of Patriotism IS Fascism....
#70 Posted by FarzanaVersey on December 12, 2003 11:59:26 pm
For anyone interested, the following column of mine is somewhat related to the subject...
Rediff On The Net, Life/Style: Farzana Versey believes that secularism is no longer a virtue, it`s a necessity.
The best thing after patriotism is secularism. Of course, one can conveniently, like the good English bishop, say, ``God said love your neighbour; he did not say love Marks and Spencer.``
Roughly translated into our context, it could mean we may tolerate the bloke next door for his saffron or green colour, but we do not have to suffer the whole damned community.
The problem is we think we are being grand.
Secularism, in our contemporary context, is not a virtue. It is a Necessity. It should be propagated in the same way as family planning, self-reliance, ecology, health care and adult education, instead of a morally right position.
Those who marry across religions must be given similar privileges as those reserved for the scheduled castes and tribes. Their offspring should be provided state backup, whether in education, health or taxation. In fact, the state must encourage private elite institutions where these children can be educated without being tainted by our national obsession with party vengeance.
For secularism to be a success, it must work on the principle of reward rather than punishment. Very often, in the course of trying to sweep away the dust, we tuck it under the carpet whereas a positive wind of change can gently blow it away.
To antagonize any community cannot be the motive of secularism. As has already been understood, religion circumscribes various other realities and, in the process, subsumes them. As one commentator pointed out, we mistakenly equate freedom of religion with freedom from religion. In the current situation, this is not universally accepted. Even an open Hindutva supporter permitted himself some magnanimity when he stated elsewhere, ``The Muslim belief in the finality of God`s revelation in the Koran and in Mohammed`s prophecy is at odds with the spirit of Indian civilisation. But Indian civilisation is large enough to accommodate it.``
Which is where the issue of small fundamentalist organizations and secularism arises. We have to see this in the context of minority power. Were a black person to marry a white person in a predominantly white community, the white person would get all the applause as well as have to bear the brunt of the backlash. Evolution itself depends largely on the numbers game. While the majority can contain others, (and must, for magnanimity is possible only when you have the largesse) the minority has problems containing itself.
For example, the Islamic Sevak Sangh had to pluck its members from the madrasas (religious schools) and unemployment rolls in Kerala. And its founder has stated, on record, that the Muslim League had done nothing for the Muslim community. But the RSS has always had considerable support from the BJP and VHP. In this combine, it could, at least until recently, be respected by a large section of the middle-class intelligentsia.
But religion per se cannot give anyone an identity in the fluctuating late 20th century society. It can only provide the much-dreaded moral fibre and a mistakenly-interpreted formula for living. Besides, it does colour our interpretation of the world.
(http://www.rediff.com/style/jun/16farz.htm)
Rediff On The Net, Life/Style: Farzana Versey believes that secularism is no longer a virtue, it`s a necessity.
The best thing after patriotism is secularism. Of course, one can conveniently, like the good English bishop, say, ``God said love your neighbour; he did not say love Marks and Spencer.``
Roughly translated into our context, it could mean we may tolerate the bloke next door for his saffron or green colour, but we do not have to suffer the whole damned community.
The problem is we think we are being grand.
Secularism, in our contemporary context, is not a virtue. It is a Necessity. It should be propagated in the same way as family planning, self-reliance, ecology, health care and adult education, instead of a morally right position.
Those who marry across religions must be given similar privileges as those reserved for the scheduled castes and tribes. Their offspring should be provided state backup, whether in education, health or taxation. In fact, the state must encourage private elite institutions where these children can be educated without being tainted by our national obsession with party vengeance.
For secularism to be a success, it must work on the principle of reward rather than punishment. Very often, in the course of trying to sweep away the dust, we tuck it under the carpet whereas a positive wind of change can gently blow it away.
To antagonize any community cannot be the motive of secularism. As has already been understood, religion circumscribes various other realities and, in the process, subsumes them. As one commentator pointed out, we mistakenly equate freedom of religion with freedom from religion. In the current situation, this is not universally accepted. Even an open Hindutva supporter permitted himself some magnanimity when he stated elsewhere, ``The Muslim belief in the finality of God`s revelation in the Koran and in Mohammed`s prophecy is at odds with the spirit of Indian civilisation. But Indian civilisation is large enough to accommodate it.``
Which is where the issue of small fundamentalist organizations and secularism arises. We have to see this in the context of minority power. Were a black person to marry a white person in a predominantly white community, the white person would get all the applause as well as have to bear the brunt of the backlash. Evolution itself depends largely on the numbers game. While the majority can contain others, (and must, for magnanimity is possible only when you have the largesse) the minority has problems containing itself.
For example, the Islamic Sevak Sangh had to pluck its members from the madrasas (religious schools) and unemployment rolls in Kerala. And its founder has stated, on record, that the Muslim League had done nothing for the Muslim community. But the RSS has always had considerable support from the BJP and VHP. In this combine, it could, at least until recently, be respected by a large section of the middle-class intelligentsia.
But religion per se cannot give anyone an identity in the fluctuating late 20th century society. It can only provide the much-dreaded moral fibre and a mistakenly-interpreted formula for living. Besides, it does colour our interpretation of the world.
(http://www.rediff.com/style/jun/16farz.htm)
#69 Posted by FarzanaVersey on December 12, 2003 10:54:20 pm
Urstruly (#76):
What is wrong with the men of today? Why are they obsessed with the size of their penises and their cellphones? Why do they pimp for their wives/lovers? Why do they eat other men (cannibalism in Germany-recent report)? Why do they try to get muscles in places where they won`t be put to much use? Why do they curl their moustaches when they start losing hair? Why do they insist that baldness makes them sexy? I don`t think women have anything to do with it, so it does not make me feel guilty:)
What is wrong with the men of today? Why are they obsessed with the size of their penises and their cellphones? Why do they pimp for their wives/lovers? Why do they eat other men (cannibalism in Germany-recent report)? Why do they try to get muscles in places where they won`t be put to much use? Why do they curl their moustaches when they start losing hair? Why do they insist that baldness makes them sexy? I don`t think women have anything to do with it, so it does not make me feel guilty:)
#68 Posted by soundmeister on December 12, 2003 8:29:07 pm
Godot-bhai,
Not only am I not too bright, am also stunned that FV thinks my fitrat is dassing. All this while I thought she just ignored my posts!
Sound ``snake`` meister
Not only am I not too bright, am also stunned that FV thinks my fitrat is dassing. All this while I thought she just ignored my posts!
Sound ``snake`` meister
#67 Posted by Urstruly on December 12, 2003 10:28:32 am
What is wrong with the women today. Why they are so obbsessed with anorexia, bolimia, vomitting, suicide, death and prostitution. It seems that the women have stopped having nicer days in their lives. I think men have something to do with it - I don`t know what it is but whatever it is, it has started making me feel guilty. But on the other hand I think it is the wasted reminiscing of the good old days when women were saved by the knights on white horses. Gone are the days and gone are the knights. Pebbles have grown into stones.
#66 Posted by Godot on December 12, 2003 6:36:57 am
Farzana, 65
You are right. He`s not very bright. Case closed. Moving on.
#65 Posted by FarzanaVersey on December 11, 2003 11:28:37 pm
Hi Harpreet:
Wow, one sentence and you are out....:) Wassup?
ana:
I know what imagery I used, but it is wonderful when someone breathes new life into it. Or sees that turning as sharper than I thought it would appear...thanks for this and that!
godot:
``Jiski fitrat hi dasnaa ho
Woh tau dasegaa mat socha kar.``
This shair should be a mantra...so I suggest that you ignore and move on...
Wow, one sentence and you are out....:) Wassup?
ana:
I know what imagery I used, but it is wonderful when someone breathes new life into it. Or sees that turning as sharper than I thought it would appear...thanks for this and that!
godot:
``Jiski fitrat hi dasnaa ho
Woh tau dasegaa mat socha kar.``
This shair should be a mantra...so I suggest that you ignore and move on...
#64 Posted by soundmeister on December 11, 2003 11:04:19 pm
Godot,
Awwww
you missed me!!!
am so touched :))))
Kisses,
sound
Awwww
you missed me!!!
am so touched :))))
Kisses,
sound
#63 Posted by nooralain on December 11, 2003 12:15:48 pm
Ferzoo,
finally. . .i come to this and read it giving myself more time (which i never seem to have anymore).
this is so rich, i think, with imagery. . .and when i`ve just had a moment for a quick read, that`s all i`ve thought. . .and yes, you do show the utter helplessness of Taraana (a name i`ve always liked, by the way). . .taraana uncomprehending the music. . .was an irony that said much more to me than not understanding what was being played at the time.
and i`ll repeat what i said in my ilog. . .writing from where you are doesn`t necessarily translate into you are what you write. . .a distinction many readers just don`t seem to get.
love, ana
finally. . .i come to this and read it giving myself more time (which i never seem to have anymore).
this is so rich, i think, with imagery. . .and when i`ve just had a moment for a quick read, that`s all i`ve thought. . .and yes, you do show the utter helplessness of Taraana (a name i`ve always liked, by the way). . .taraana uncomprehending the music. . .was an irony that said much more to me than not understanding what was being played at the time.
and i`ll repeat what i said in my ilog. . .writing from where you are doesn`t necessarily translate into you are what you write. . .a distinction many readers just don`t seem to get.
love, ana
#62 Posted by Harpreet on December 11, 2003 7:35:50 am
Farzana
Some good lines and arresting imagery in this story.
:)
#61 Posted by Godot on December 11, 2003 7:35:37 am
Farzana, re #53
That repulsive sound
Where one found
A meister braying
For a piece of turd praying
He has been hungry a while
Hasn’t been seen a while
For a donkey that he is
High on turd, deluded himself a stallion he is
Unaware how ugly and repulsive he is
Alas, an ignorant jackass he is
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