Farzana and Me

re: Dost-Mittar # 105

Dost, the Muslim voice in India is not a monotone. Like in the the general and so in the particular, one action by a solitary Muslim does not signify the opinion of the many and the many need not agree with the actions of the one. Islam is not a monolith and those who make this distinction, of Islam being monolithic, are monolithic in their own myopia.

I know, you are not one of the above, so I was amused to see that comment from you, because each Muslim act in India will have its share of appluse and its share of shame by the Muslims themselves and they will never agree on a single act with the same unity of perception, which you alluded.

Ciao

re: harimau # 63

``You are wrong. When someone slaughters cows, sacred or otherwise, we Indians go on a rampage and a communal riot ensues.``

Touche, mon amie! ROFLMAO!

Harimau, I am glad that some one was able to maintain a sense of humor.

Still, I have to restate and which is, that this article was not about FV. The article was about India. India is human and India is a mirror of humanity. India is proud and India is venal and India is progressive and India is regressive. India produces the best and the worst and India is a contradiction. India cannot be pigeon holed as a poster child for utopia and each person`s India is unique and India is the collection of your fears and hopes all rolled into one and what you struggle with is your idea of India; which swings between your limitations and your aspirations. It forces you to compromise, because India will not be what you wish and instead, like Anil said it so brilliantly, India will make you what she wishes and like a beautiful woman, India will seduce you as to try to seduce her and you will not even know the sly of fate, which has befallen you.

India is not an ideology, which can be debated, because the greatness of India lies in its humanity, with all its flaws and weakness and those who try to presend otherwise, do India and Indians a disservice. India is not fragile and India will survive and years from now, these shouts and confirmations of fate will vanish and the people who made them, will be forgotten and India will, with all its teeming billions, still be very much present and will still be viberant. Greatness of India lies in the fact that it thrives with all the hurdles in its way and that is more than what can be said for many a nation in this sorry world.

The article was a sarcastic rejoinder to the majority that it does not hold the monopoly of what is the meaning of India and to the minority that it cannot define what is, and should be, India and to both of them, to stop making India something, which India does not want to become.

The article, like I said was not about FV, but about the futility of the debate on the nature of India, which is being waged by the minority and the majority in India to define India and in the end, both will be wrong.

Ciao

dost:

nice quote from two faces of India by ghulam mohammad al jazira…

while you recognize there is no one voice of Hindu…(you have alluded to thinking hindus and majority of hindus here…and other hindu perspectives in your previous interacts elsewhere…hence you are aware of this that we cannot assign one voice to hindus…similarly…we cannot assign one voice to muslims either…the numbers are too large…india too big a behemoth…

…therefore when you say The more muslims show the attitude displayed in this article, the more hindus will go into the arms of militant hinduism, because they no longer believe in tolerating intolerance.…you err when you make the muslims of India sound as one monolith community…

….there will be Indians muslims who will applaud and there will be Indian muslims who will put down both incidents mentioned in the quoted article…

…this makes up for the vibrancy of the behemoth I mentioned in a previous post

rgds,

t

Let`s discuss the topic:
The chowk staff did not accept my request to end discussing the personality of a chowkie. So, let me try to do what chowk asked, namely, to turn to the issue of majority and minority views re. India. With this in mind, I am reproducing an article from Aljazeera on India, appararently by an Indian muslim and will follow it up with a comment.

[Two faces of India

By Ghulam Muhammed

Al-Jazeerah,12 /9/03
Two pictures in media would graphically hold a key to the Muslim psyche about their interaction with their Hindu compatriots in India. One depicts, the Governor of Maharashtra, folding hands before the deity in Siddhivinayak Temple in Mumbai, on the first day of his arrival in the city, as Maharashtra Governor, on appointment from the Center’s BJP led government. It was Friday and time was bang when lakhs of Muslims in the city were praying their Friday prayers. The picture published by The Asian Age, resulted in deep resentment among Muslims. The picture was sent out on internet all around the world, to symbolize the abject humiliation of a high Muslim state official of a secular democratic government of a land, where a 150million Muslims formed the world’s second largest Muslim population. It also characterized the deep-seated demoralization of Muslims, who, as L.K. Advani had referred to the Media, ‘crawled when asked to bend’.

The second picture depicts, ‘Hashim Ansari with Mahant Gayan Das’ of the front page of Milli Gazette, New Delhi (Dec1 -15,2003 ). The accompanying banner headline was: Azan, Iftar and namaz in Hanuman Garhi. The report detailed how the Mahant had revived the age-old neighborly relations between the two communities in Ayodhya and the deep respect that both had for the spirit of religiosity that characterized the town’s throbbing present and the much more glorious past. MG’s correspondent Manzar Mehdi describes the moving scene: In the evening when the Muslims in different groups dressed in Sherwani, topi etc. started entering the Hanuman Garhi, a big crowd including high officials of he the district and non-Muslim gentry of the City was there to see this historic event. At around5 . 15pm when Hashim Ansari, the oldest living plaintiff in the Babri title suit, broke fast at the hands of Mahant Gyan Das, along with hundreds of Muslims and media photographers “imprisoned” t! his historic and beautiful scene in their films for ever. The Hindu holy men personally served food, mainly fruits and yogurts, to the guests. Shortly thereafter the call of Allaho Akbar from the minarets of Hanuman Garhi, echoed in the atmosphere of Ayodhya. After the call for prayers, congressional namaz started. ….a new history of Ayodhya’s unity and love was written and balm was applied to the injuries of Babri Masjid’s martyrdom. Mahant Gyan Das (recalled) ‘with content and happiness writ large on his face, …..that the land of Hanuman Garhi was gifted by Nawab Mansoor Ali Khan and Nawab Shujaudaula had offered cooperation in its construction. Today, by throwing the Iftar party, we partly repaid their debts.’

Even if reaction in some Muslim circles was not wholly appreciative of this new development, in the background of the new and more sophisticated efforts to woo Muslims to hand over the Babri Masjid site to building of a Mandir in the carrot and stick alternative formulations, the residue effect of this Hindu-Muslim Ekta does leave some positive vibes, that were missing in Maharashtra Governor Mohammed Fazal’s in the supposedly ‘servile submission to diet in the line of duty’.

The recent victories by ultra-nationalist Hindutva BJP in 3 states, while Vajpayee is credited with rejecting the old electoral gimmickry of Babri-Masjid/ Ram Mandir politicization, and proving to his own party detractors that BJP can win even without religious mobilization, the Muslims will not be placated and will not relent without getting their full political rights in a democratic India entering the21 st century. The earliest Vajpayee and company realise it is for the good of the nation, that such a large and vibrant community should get its place in the governance of the country, the smoother India’s progress towards peace and prosperity for all the one billion citizens of the nation.

editor@aljazeerah.info]


The article ignores the act of a hindu nationalist government appointing a muslim governor of a predominantly large hindu state as a sign of tolerance but focusses, instead, on his visiting a hindu temple as characteristic of the deep-seated demoralisation of muslims.

I think that this article sums up the dominant thinking of Indian muslims; namely, that the turning of Hanuman Garhi temple into a virtual mosque for Eid is a symbol of a tolerant, secular India whereas a muslim governor of Maharashtra showing respect for his majority citizenry by visiting their temple -just as Akbar did during his reign!- is a sign of muslim humiliation in an intolerant India.

I would be safe in saying that this concept of asymmetric secularism is no longer acceptable to thinking hindus, although it probably still causes no problem for the large majority of hindus. Hindus can still be quite tolerant, respect and even accept muslim religion and patronise their dargahs and mazaars with visits and donations but they would also like their religion to be respected -not accepted- by muslims. This causes a challenge for many muslims to whom such respect goes against their religious beliefs.

Therein lies the problem. The more muslims show the attitude displayed in this article, the more hindus will go into the arms of militant hinduism, because they no longer believe in tolerating intolerance.
....And now, I fully expect some arrows pointed in my direction for being a bughal-mein-chhuree secularist.

Hypocrisy split wide open

Bibhuti Bhusan Nandy
December 8

Taslima Nasreen is not a paragon of virtue, but she is a brave woman. She has the grit to call a spade a spade. Pronounced a murtad (apostate) and sentenced to death by Islamic fanatics in Bangladesh, the exiled author remains firm in her condemnation of polygamy and other ills in the male-dominated Muslim society, for which she squarely blames the Prophet and the Koran.

Dwikhandita ‘the safer’ version, (Ka in Bangladesh) is an autobiographical work in which Nasreen has unmasked certain intellectuals of Bangladesh and West Bengal, narrating their extra-marital escapades. Additionally, Dwikhandita reiterates the author’s critical views on Islam. On the complaints of one aggrieved Bangladeshi writer and another intellectual of West Bengal, courts in Kolkata and Dhaka have stopped the marketing and sale of the book.

Against this backdrop, the ban on Dwikhandita (Split in two) by the Left Front regime reeks of ulterior motives. It has exposed the state government to the charge of appeasement of Muslim fanatics with an eye on the minority vote bank. It’s also a clever, if cynical, ploy to cover up the allegations of sexual aberrations involving some pro-establishment intellectuals, notably a septuagenarian poet and the father-in-law of a blue-eyed IAS officer, and another government favourite in the state information directorate.

The Marxists’ stand that Dwikhandita has hurt the religious feelings of a section and could spark off communal tensions is untenable. No fewer than 2,000 copies have been sold, but, except for the complaint from a fairly nondescript poet and some self-serving intellectuals, the book hasn’t created any ripple, let alone unleash communal tensions of any kind.

As Nasreen herself has pointed out, her earlier books — Lajja, Amar Meyebela and Utal Hawa — had contained much stronger attacks on Islam, Hazrat Mohammed, the Koran and the fundamentalists. But the Left saw nothing objectionable in those texts. Lajja, published in the wake of the post-Babri masjid communal backlash, was a graphic account of unmitigated Hindu-cleansing in Bangladesh that drove tens of thousands of Hindus into West Bengal. In this surcharged atmosphere, it had the potential of arousing communal passions, but the communists kept quiet, fearing that any action against the book would offend Hindu voters.

In view of the court injunction, the ban is an exercise of executive power. It has pre-empted the judicial process by removing the complainant’s cause of action. The government feared that the court proceedings might result in more damaging disclosures and go in favour of the book and its author. Thus, scuttling of the sub judice case was a safer bet. As the bizarre agitation against a high court order restricting street demonstrations has confirmed, the power-crazy Left has no respect for the law.

Unlike the West Bengal government, the BNP-Jamaat dispensation in Bangladesh has not interfered with the court case in Dhaka because the affected intellectuals there are mostly supporters of the opposition party, Awami League. In 1994, the government of Begum Zia encouraged the fundamentalists to agitate against Nasreen, so that it could provide her with an excuse to ban Lajja and banish its author. Today, in the face of sharpening criticism of the repression of the liberal democratic forces in the country, Dhaka is chary of incurring further opprobrium from the West.

The high-handed action of the West Bengal government has turned the spotlight on the chronicle of Marxist hypocrisy:

* In 1988, following the central ban on Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses, the Left Front kicked up a row. Ashok Mitra, former state finance minister, accused New Delhi of “pursuing the path of Mohammed Ali Jinnah”, conveniently forgetting that in 1947 the communists had unequivocally supported Jinnah’s two-nation theory and the Muslim League’s demand for Partition. In a total volte face now, the same party ideologue has justified the ban on Dwikhandita.

* In 1996, when M.F. Husain was attacked in Maharashtra for painting Saraswati in the nude, the CPI(M) organised massive protests in Kolkata, but Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee boycotted his exhibition in the city earlier this year after the artist had done some plainspeaking on the questionable merit of some Leftist artists.

* In 2000, after Deepa Mehta was forced to abandon the filming of Water in Varanasi purportedly because it hurt Hindu sentiments, the then chief minister, Jyoti Basu, and his deputy, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, assured her security if she made the film in West Bengal.

* Murtahim Billho Fazil’s Hindutva o Islam contains derogatory remarks against Hinduism, Christianity and the Jewish faith, but the Left Front government has turned a blind eye to this provocative book.

Since the Eighties, some so-called progressive intellectuals of West Bengal have systematically denigrated Hindu gods and goddesses. A prominent Bengali novelist, who had promoted Nasreen earlier, has echoed the government’s view that Dwikhandita has hurt the religious feelings of some people. But, writing under the pseudonym ‘Sanatan Pathak’ in a Bengali journal, he had called Goddess Kali a “fierce and ugly Santhal slut” (Kali hochhe bikrita beebhatsa darshana Sautal magi). Later, pornographic celluloid rendering of his novel Radha Krishna in Bangladesh offended the religious feelings of the Bangladeshi Hindus so much that the Ershad government had to ban it. A recent article by Sharmila Bose (Ananda Bazaar Patrika, August 3) depicted Ram as an impotent wretch and Sita as a nymphomaniac. By turning a blind eye to these acts of blasphemy, the Left has shown its bias against the Hindu faith.

The ban on Dwikhandita in the wake of the excision of Ganesh vandana from the Chhou dance and boycott of Saraswati bandana by the state government ministers doesn’t augur well for communal peace and harmony. These shibboleths have even provoked many non-communal citizens to question the motive behind teaching the Koran, Hadis, Islamic theology and Arabic at public expense and allowing mosques to operate in government offices, educational institutions and hospitals.

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#84 by ali_1 on December 9, 2003 11:34am PT
# 45 m_souza

[“MAY OUR CLEAN COUNTRY OF PAKSITAN BE SAVED FROM THE sewer with billion pieces of turd THAT IS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD!!”]

Amen. We pray for this every day.
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Pray pray....at least five times a day. That is what makes your elite country so progressive.


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[“MAY ALL THE MUSLIMS FLOATING IN THAT INFIDEL TURD come floating and fall into OUR HOLY LAND OF PAKISTAN!!”]

Sorry, Pakistan is for Pakistanis. Indian muslims will create their new homeland WITHIN India.
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Keep dreaming of dividing India...for that dream keeps your jihadi country`s young men alive and vibrant.
If Indian muslims set ablaze a train full of Hindu Indians then Godhra takes place. If they try to divide India again...(they did once and formed their shitty pakistan)..then God knows..what...maybe then they would actually be all exported to Pakistan..then let them live in HELL


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PS. Please press your Caps Lock key before responding. Its on the left-middle side of your keyboard. Thank you.
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Wow! you are indeed a genius!! You should come and work for an Indian IT company. Don`t waste your talents in that mullah land where you would finally end up being a terrorist and a jihadi (if that is not what you are already)

..... let`s call a trishul a trishul and accept the fact that most pakis and hindoos hate each other with a passion bordering on insanity............ and what they hate more than each other are turncoats, traitors, fifth-columnists and journalists who sympathize with the folks on the wrong side of the border ............ actually, the horrible hindoos are more prone to this sort of knee-jerk reaction than the pathetic pakis who spend half the time hating themselves ................of course there are a few peacenicks and mentally infirm folks on both sides who want to hug and kiss and make up with the enemy, but they are a tiny minority .......... the rest of us, if we had our druthers, would rather eat dirt than have anything to do with the converts or idolators ..........poor farzana is simply caught in the middle .............

re: #94

...was rsaxena talking to you?...did rsaxena reach low to actually address you?...NO....so get lost... muaaaaaaaaahaha

chowk staff:
``This is a request to all interactors to examine the larger issue addressed by the writer instead of making Farzana Versey the subject of discussion.``

Are you really that naive as to think that this article would lead to anything but a discussion about FV? And if you are really so naive, I have a question and a request for you: Did you check with FV before publishing this article? If not, I would request you to please remove it from here and end this distasteful discussion.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Harish:

…did not know you have a sadistic trait in you…are you enjoying/hurting all this vicariously?…Farzana has her share of faults…all of us here who breathe do have our faults…only the dead don’t…but despite her flaws and faults she speaks with passion, pain and love for her india…from her uniquely farzanian perch…

So what inflames some people about Farzana? you ask…or as chowk editors said…This article was published because HN, a respected writer at Chowk, was addressing a larger issue of Indian majority views vs. Indian minority views.

there are two explanations i can proffer:

1: Chowk is considered by some to be a Pakistani web portal…and Indians do not like to wash their dirty laundry in public…we pakistanis otoh have apparently no such qualms…and often and publicly are more critical and introspective of our religion, politics, government and military

2: farzana shows up all too often an ugly and uncomfortable image…that cannot easily be swept under or aside…

...what amuses me sometimes is this: you know the Indian hindus are by no means a monolithic group as they appear here in response to FV’s articles…we have discussed this at length on many occasions in the past… but here they collectively and vainly assume a shiny monolithic identity…perhaps inadvertently… and they do come across as one here…

…you say…Her worldview, thoroughly imperfect and magnificiently flawed as it is, is essentially humane.

…let us say for a moment that I share this sentiment I…then why do more detractors of FV focus on the underlined and not on the bold parts?

…you say..Emotional truth of Farzana’s pieces cut into our “Hindu Indian” collective consciousness. The point is most of our responses tend to be supremely assured….

assured?…on the contrary even a superficial read of the detractors tell us that they jump, nay pounce on the messenger…because perhaps delving on the message is painful and also needs a greater degree of moral rectitude and introspection than what they are willing to come up with? …there is nothing assured about this in any of the four classifications you discussed…

you say That her pieces have logical leaps, a pronounced preponderance for rhetoric, and a tendency to plough away weaknesses with flourishes, give enough legitimate reasons for a roasting by the politically pure.…if this was so than instead of roasting the message why do they barbecue the messenger?…almost always save a noble exception or two?

In postscript you write why do you Indians hate Farzana? the query should what is there is her writings that makes for that outpouring of hate?…a truer examination of this will perhaps enrich us more…perhaps that was your original intent…unfortunately we have yet to see a real discussion of this here…

rgds,

t

#81 by ali_1

G.I. Ali.. you are better commentrator that FV about what ails India. You are accurate, pithy, precise and have recommended solutions (indoor plumbing water in this specific case). Seems like many of the politicians of Bombay are listening to you. Apparently there seems to be chain of ``Sandas`` in Mumbai, some maintained by Sulabh International, with very garish proclamations on them of which MP/MLA/Corporator got them built (sometimes out of their allocated dev. funds). It literally reads something like ``your progress is facilitated by XYZ``..its kind of funny to think of your local rep each time you move bowels!

Since you seem to taking a lot of interest in these type of (bowel) movements, pls visit

http://www.sulabhtoiletmuseum.org/

and

http://www.sulabhinternational.org

re:# 76 by Anil
``Can we not appreciate the diversity that India is? Farzana is integral part of this diversity, this fabric. Because she is proud. Tears roll out when she hears Indian national anthem.``

Really! When did that happen? When did Farzana Bibi actually shed tears at the National anthem? Pity i missed that one.
I think people like Farzana are trying to travel in 2 boats. One boat leads to India, the other drifts towards Pakistan. F.V has not made up her mind which boat she should travel in. Hence, you read all kinds of ambiguous statements.

Just read some of her statements from articles posted in Chowk:

1. From ``The great turn on``:
F.V writes:
{Pakistan needs to be at war with India. Any kind of war. And even after all those losses (perhaps because of them) the sentiments remain. As they do here. Mr. Vajpayee, after talking about peace initiatives, said immediately, “We will continue to deal firmly with cross-border terrorism, a meaningful dialogue with Pakistan is only possible when we see sincerity in their efforts to stop cross-border infiltration and to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism.”

Of course, we must remember that these statements were made when addressing the combined armed forces commanders’ conference. It is important to speak like a warrior when you are setting up people to freeze in the snow. Just light a little fire to keep them warm}.
She seems to say that India is not sincere about peace. But, wait a minute! If you had read the whole article, you would know that she started out by actually criticising the peace initiatives by India vis-a-vis Pak. Make up your mind Bibi. What is it? Peace or War?

But, her best was to come later.
2. In the article ``Just another blow-up``, she writes:

{What caused the blasts of August 25, 2003? The Home Minister has said it could be the Lashkar-e-Taiba together with SIMI. The same modus operandi was used as in 1993. Busy public areas. Afternoon. Parked vehicles carrying the explosives.

But there was nothing of this kind after the Gujarat riots. Therefore, is it ‘preparing for elections’ time? Is this an answer to the no-confidence motion passed in Parliament? Is it some silly peeve against the proposed visit of The Israeli prime minister? Is it a dead man’s urn? Or is it the Archeological Survey of India’s report? It is difficult to define a backlash – sometimes it is an impulsive act, sometimes a well-planned move, sometimes political expediency.}
And, for those who did not read that article, here is the punch line:

{The moment I saw that shiny steel box, I knew it spelled trouble. I had no idea of what it contained, but my gut feeling was that it would not be a fair report. Because the prime minister of India had declared at the funeral of Ramchandra Paramhans that his wish to have a temple built at Ayodhya would be fulfilled even as he spoke about going by the court verdict. Because the Shankaracharya of Kanchi changed his tune. Because, as I have begun to believe, Ayodhya is now Kashmir. We need it to fight the enemies, Pakistan and what an increasing number of Indians have come to believe Indian Muslims to be – closet Pakistanis, or at least made-for-Pakistan.}

Any objectivity in the above statement? A journalist says so and so because of a ``gut feeling``. When was the last time you heard M.J.Akbar use that word?
One para later, we hear the now-familiar ``Farzana whine``:
{Therefore, when Hindus are killed in specific parts of the country, Muslims have to bear the brunt of the ire; when Muslims are killed, again Muslims must take the blame. They are accused of either playing the victim card or being Pak-bred predators.}

Farzana Bibi has always played the perfect victim and gotten loads of sympathies from her muslim chowkie friends. Note that the above statement had nothing to do with the topic of the article (about the Bombay blasts).
Need i go on? My problems with F.V is not whether she writes badly or she is anti-this or anti-that. My problem with her articles is: they are not objective and not backed with facts. A good journalist must first learn to be objective before putting pen to paper.
Sridhar

re: this article
What is all this fuss about Farzana Bibi? I cannot understand why people are wasting time on this kind of stupid discussion. I regularly read articles written by M.J. Akbar and Syed Naqvi. Both are good writers and write objectively. I have not yet seen even one single objective article by Farzana Bibi. She writes either to whine about something or to shock some people by her atrocious statements. Not one of her articles is backed by good research. I have not forgotten that pathetic article she published in Chowk sometime back, wherein she claimed that the Bombay riots were caused by leakage of some documents (pertaining to the findings of Babri Masjid Archeological survey). She did not substantiate what she said.
And, what is all this doubt about this writer`s safety in India? There is, i think, a greater risk of someone dying from boredom after reading Farzana Bibi`s wirtings than of her getting bumped off by a Hindu zealot!
Sridhar

rsaxena. . .
why don`t you just bugger the bloody hell off. . .why does it bother you whether i come or go. i am entitled to change my mind, you know. if it bothers you so much that i leave, and return and leave and return, then for goodness sakes why don`t you take a vacation and then return, no one but no one will hold it against you.

since you don`t have anything valuable or intelligent to contribute, all you can do is trash me, or temporal or farzana, and you know what, it gets really bloody old. . .why don`t you just grow the hell up. you`re such a hypocrite for wanting 12-head off chowk, when you`re just as much a menace as he is.

*with apologies to everyone especially harish, f, and the chowk staff*

re:#52 by RationalFaith
As i said sometimes ago, this woman is a Paki soul in an Indian body. Tough life.
Sridhar