Farzana and Me

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00002881&channel=gulberg#61

Nasah, have you ever seen Farzana wash Islam`s dirty linen in public?

Your post will make sense if she has ever done so.

I have requested her many times to point out the ills in the Islamic society. She would rather harp on the problems in the Hindu society.

Would you be as accomodating if I as AN INDIAN PAR EXCELLENCE constantly bash the Muslim society?

they are afraid to wash their own dirty linen in public because others will SEE they don`t wear underwears.....or their undergarments are as much SOILED as that of the Muslims

I wonder why Farzana is afraid of washing Islamic society`s dirty linen in public?

Her contention is that all the problems facing Muslims in India is due to the Hindus. How can that be palatable to any reasonable INDIAN?

I have always believed that India is a system that goes beyond a nation-state or a religion. It has shown, that this microcosm, in its contrasting poverty and riches, thrives with all its defects as a democracy.

Do we want to disown the richness of thought that questions in Rig Veda ``Is man the best creation of God, or the God is the best imagination of man``?

Do we want to disown the depiction of love, on the ruined temples of Khajuraho, because ruined temples of Benares and others have mosques on them?

When I saw in Benares, mosque on top of Kashi Vishwanath Temple about 35 years ago, my cousin told me the history. The thoughts that came to me was that even a mosque has a temple in its fabric; a mosque is built on the foundation of a temple. Can the religion practiced in this mosque also be built on the foundation of the religion practiced in the temple that so belongs in the fabric? Do worshippers in this mosques not worship in the temple in its fabric? This is my India, it abosorbs all thoughts. I was proud, my cousin and I went to his home, where his grandfather had brought up Lal Bahadur Shastri in his home as a poor boy of ten and transformed Shastri in to a leader of India.

This is the India, I see in Farzana`s writings, and in the questions posed by others who vehemently oppose or support her. End of the day, their India too will abosorb these thoughts and enrichen them too.

I am confident, taken out of context, a muslim jihadist`s views can be quoted to support the actions jihadists of other colors. Why, because there is a common logic that drives jihadists.

Hinduism has thrieved, and India has lived through several periods of doubts and revivals, and shall live on.

Can you disown the thoughts that some Jain monks and Hindu monks live naked? This sight to a Jain follower is different than to others. When I was a llittle boy, my mother took me to Kumbh mela, from my nani`s hometown. She refused to take me to the ghats when naked sadhus were to go and take bath. I would never know why. I vaguely recall she telling me that there would be a stampede. I know, as a small boy, alone in some relatives strange home, I spent the entire time looking out for her through the window, scared of loosing my mother. These are all perspectives, to some a holy saint, to other fear of loosing mother, and to some a symbol of sex. The common denominator is the abstraction that is mind and thought.

Can we not appreciate the diversity that India is? Farzana is integral part of this diversity, this fabric. Because she is proud. Tears roll out when she hears Indian national anthem. Why don`t you believe these words, when we take others out of context. India, and hinduism that I conjure in my mind, has been enrichened by such diverse thoughts, no one has ever been able to muzzle any thoughts in India. If Aurangzeb tried to bury alive sons of India, more sons came forward, and Sikhism is alive. If brahmanic dominance became overbearing, Buddha and Mahavir came. Institutionalized buddhism became overbearing, Shankaracharyas came. Can we deny this? These facts are also pearls of India.

Can I not forsee, that if hindutva`s yardstick to measure everyone, as less Hindu, right Hindu or more Hindu, becomes overbearing, people who suddenly find themselves less Hindu or more Hindu will not bring change? They will because they want to be Hindu and Indian.

I am very proud of my kashmiri brahmin heritage. My father reminded me of this heritage even though generations have lived away from that part, and found interesting formula to arrange marriages to continue to belong to this heritage. I found similar, intereting this, among a group, in Karnataka and southern Maharashtra. My father had told me to trace our roots to visit Amarnath and asks the priests their. I will go there one day, for the ritual of tracing my roots, and not for anyother ritual. I have a dream to adopt a village in Indian Kashmir.

Politically thinking, Advani is listening to dissenting views from Indian Kashmir too. He has to, to find a solution. He has to, to give them a respect of being Indian. He has to, to evolve his India that he loves dearly. So what is wrong, if Farzana has given an exposure to a dissenting Kashmiri voice. I saw a pain and anger in this voice. Although, I see anamoly that because, my grandparents were not born in Kashmir, therefore, I cannot buy a land there. I also wonder if Paksitan ever did that to prevent Punjabi dominence of their Kashmir, then these half-kashmiri punjabi speaking Pakistani`s will not dictate and meddle. Contrasting to it, I see insaniyat in Vajpayee`s approach, I am glad that Pakistan is recognizing it value in this approach. Don`t we all, when angry with our parents and siblings, say things. So what is wrong if Farzana had expressed herself.

I do not see Pakistani Generals ever succeeding in taking Indian Kashmir away. However, I do see, Vajpayee evolving in Kashmir and elsewhere in India, through coalition form of government, a devolution of democratic powers to states, and making a new transition in Indian democratic that is just opposite of Nehru`s period of centralization. I do see Laloo and similar forces emerging as an alternative to BJP. I see that it will be healthy for India.

It is interesting for me that someone in one post compares Gandhi and Muhammad. I see similar anger in this comparison, as Farzana`s anger elsewhere. I also know that as long as all of us have right to express our anger and love we will have the diversity that is India. No one will be able to break it. No one.

Wait a minute, aren`t we getting carried away? How relevant are concepts of TNT to modern India? One TNT has been blown away by real power of TNT in 1971. In few years, in our life time, we will witness an emergence of powerful South Asia. Will India and Indians not be responsible for it? Doubters can read Fortune Magazine, to notice what Bangalore is called, and see the handwriting on the wall. The justice will be done to the criminals, there is a change, Dawoods of the world are being hunted down. Let us feel the freshness that Indian diversity is.

Sadna is correct Harish Nambiar could have written about Malyalam movies. Every proud Indian is welcome. Join the club, and chose the corner that suits your opinion and is to your liking. Please do not doubt the others. Soon there will be time to welcome Indian Kashmiris who were termed terrorists yesterday. I promise, that time will come. I have faith in India.

Thank you.
ANIL KAPURIA

#54 HN
So FV gains some publicity mostly by ``exposing`` evil majority..we all seem to agree. What is moot is wheather this excercise has cost and benefit; i.e, does it make the rabid foam less or more? I know, I know, its not the journos job to talk about the consequenses..they merely ``expose``...then on to the Pulitzer baby...no wonder they ranked recently right next to lawyers in a recent poll

#69 by nasah
Folks who think they own India passionately enough, own India, this is a reality. It is not a matter of mere birth (talk to folks who out-casted the NRIs). Constitution/bill-of-rights is a piece of paper and is paper thin against much stronger tribal insticts..so a verbal challenge is fair game. We all bear responsibilty of escalation dont we?

re. PunjabiZuku #44:

PZ, my own experiences with Indians in private pretty much mirror those of yours with your Pakistani friends. In fact, I would admit that more Pakistanis seem generally more willing to discuss their own (country`s) faults out in the open, even in the presence of Indians than the other way around. But to suggest that there be some correpsspondence here would be to suggest that the two states are in he same boat, headed in the same direction, which they clearly are not. I think it is this reality (Gujarat aside) that makes many Indians cringe at any attempted equivalency between the two societies, though i dare say too many Indians think of Pakistan too much in terms of who is running it, and too little of who lives in it.

There, Mahesh2! hope that clears it all up for you now! :)

good grief. . .i either respond to this, or i walk away *ponders*

rationalfaith:
first of all, farzana is not a mare. . last i checked, a mare was a female horse, and farzana happens to be a human, and a woman. . .so i would ask that in interacting with me, you kindly refer to her as a human being or cease responding to my insignificant posts.

and now here`s this. . .looking at those top ten pearls of wisdom that have emanated from her pen, or keyboard. . .i am in no position to debate, or argue on what was written, or what was interpreted. i do know what the dangers are of taking phrases out of their context, separating them from the rest of the text, but just as intimate, and yes dangerous and explosive at times as farzana`s writing is, so is our response to it as readers and interpreters. and of course neglected here is that farzana has refuted those pearls, each and every one of them, but readers are not going to receive the benefit of those refutations are they?

and i would argue that while what farzana writes here are her intimate reactions to situations, we are not completely privy to `such beliefs` that she holds. as to her being `allowed` to live in india, india is a free country is it not, so yes it does say something about india that farzana is `free` to express her ideas. and why shouldn`t she, as an indian? of course the obvious implication here is that such would not be the case had she been in pakistan, but who knows?

harish:
i wondered about this business of iconography, and if this is in defense of what Farzana writes about, then my concern was that `farzana ko bhi buland na kar itna. . ke . .ke. . well by now you know i am no poet. as i`m finally waking up a little more, i see that this does not mean making her more important than the issues, she raises. as for the opening hearts and minds. . .there is always the chance that one person who thinks negatively will read this, and rethink their position, and if even one person should be affected then that is something, nahin?
: )

#54 HN
So FV gains some publicity mostly by ``exposing`` evil majority..we all seem to agree. What is moot is wheather this excercise has cost and benefit; i.e, does it make the rabid foam less or more? I know, I know, its not the journos job to talk about the consequenses..they merely ``expose``...then on to the Pulitzer baby...no wonder they ranked recently right next to lawyers in a recent poll

#69 by nasah
Folks who think they own India passionately enough, own India, this is a reality. It is not a matter of mere birth (talk to folks who out-casted the NRIs). Constitution/bill-of-rights is a piece of paper and is paper thin against much stronger tribal insticts..so a verbal challenge is fair game. We all bear responsibilty of escalation dont we?

bullukhan# 58

FYI...RationalFaith: #52 is a classic act...repeat a lie often enough and it will become a truth in (unsuspecting) reader`s eyes...

...each one of those points culled from different articles has been explained and refuted by farzana...he RF so conveniently ignores that...

rgds,

t

``That a person holding such beliefs is allowed to live in India says something about India``
(Rational Faith)

dear Irrational -- did you say ...``allowed to live in India`` ? -- oh your goodness -- so now Indians are ``allowed to live in India`` -- by YOU``?--

so YOU own India now? ...... I had no idea ....since when my dear since when.?..

# 58 Ballukhan

Sadly each and everyone of them.

That`s the core Farzana for you. No wonder she evokes such hatred among Indians and such wild adulation among Pakistanis.

Ref godot #11

[Why do Indian Hindus Hate Farzana

Simple. She’s a Muslim. Never mind that she is an Indian. She is trying to make India, her country she loves so much, to an enlightened country; she wants to pull India out of the muck and give it a bath. But being a Muslim, she is considered a traitor for that attempt by the Indian Hindus. If she were a Hindu, she’d be hailed by the same people as a patriot, a daredevil, a superwoman, a selfless nationalist, a woman of substance who changed India for the better, a woman who pulled India out of the muck it had been stuck in up to its nose. It’s too bad for India that Farzana was born a Muslim.]

You seem to be confusing Farzana Versey with Mother Teresa.

But then, such confusion is common among folks like you.

VHATT ARE YOU DISCUSSING SHE JUST VANTS YOUR ATTENTION.

http://www.chowk.com/show_interactor_page.cgi?membername=ferozk

Can`t you guys talk English for a change.

What with this need to talk in sophisticated tone and language that people like me don`t get.

What was this article about anyway? I am clueless as to whether it says:

1) Harish Nambiar hates Farzana.
2) Hindus hate Farzana
3) People who disagree with Farzana are Hindus
4) People love Farzana
5) What Farzana says is right
6) What Farzana says is wrong
7) Harish Nambiar agrees with Farzana but hates her anyway
8) Harish Nambiar disagrees with Farzna but loves her anyway

and so on.

The same goes for the interactions as well.

````“Yours is the impotency of the minority, mine, the infertility of the majority.``

considering the 1.1 billion Indians -- and multiplying like million rabbits every month -- I would have to say that the above sentence is definitely a misrepresentation of the Indian VIRILITY....

-- In India -- honestly speaking -- neither the minotirity is impotent nor the majority is infertile......if they can just get along -- and mostly they do --

anyway -- most of the time most of the `diseases of performance` are -- psychosomatic -- not organic...like beauty mostly in the heads of the beholders...

I don`t think Farzana is a fiend -- and I don`t think that ALL Hindus hate her -- Farzana herself is one gutsy lady -- not unlike Tasleema she berates or Ismat she adores --

and the Hindus like the Muslims on CHowk secretly admire her -- that`s why some of them get so upset at her at times including me...

of course she criticizes the Indians `despite` being an Indian -- of course she does not like that fascist patriotic bull -- my country right or wrong -- a historical prescription for disaster for the neighbor --

she -- as a member of Indian minority of course she has every right to whine, gripe criticize the majority for not doing enough for the minoruity -- this is universal --

AND IT IS NOT RACISM OR BIGOTRY -- its her MINORITY RIGHT -- the reverse is ....

to me her criticism of the majority establishment -- smells like one hundred percent Indian tea....

she doe it because -- SHE IS AN INDIAN PAR EXCELLENCE -- she hails from a country that prides itself in -- free for all -- free speech -- self- examination -- self criticism -- self deprecation -- self-analysis -- self-correction and self-improvement --

she hails from a democratic Tower of Babel called India -- not a muffled, muzzled CHina

the problem lies with those Hindu CHowkis who unlike a Dost-mitter, a Soysauce, a Nambiar, a Shanker -- a Sadna -- are not so sure and not confident of their of their `Hinduness` -- or are oversensitive of their inadequacies -- they would rather die than -- call their own spade a spade -- their own garbage a garabaage -- any time of the day any time of the night -- on Chowk -- or anywhere...

they are afraid to wash their own dirty linen in public because others will SEE they don`t wear underwears.....or their undergarments are as much SOILED as that of the Muslims

they are are VERY good in dishng but NOT as good in taking -- and they consider it a VIRTUE --

lttle they realize that all religions have collected garbage over the centuries -- all societies have dirty under garments -- ONLY

the socieity or community or the religion -- that is not good in accepting legitimate criticism WITH INTROSPECTION -- is destined to remain wallowing in its beloved dirt ITS sweet filth forever..........despite all the material amenities....:-)

re: Ali1

....if india is a sewer, what does that make pakistan with its rotting economy, higher illiteracy and infant mortality rates?...the tank that collects india`s sewage...or merely a banana republic infested with terrorists which needs to be slapped around every now and then by the US?...

Ref ferozk #60

[Harish, you have made many Indians uncomfortable and this was bound to happen if you sought to challenge the versions of infallibility they have created for themselves and India and the meaning of what is India; and who is an Indian. This is what happens, when you slaughter scared cows.]

You are wrong. When someone slaughters cows, sacred or otherwise, we Indians go on a rampage and a communal riot ensues.

;-)

the latest on ali1`s broke gutter to the west of india:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/07/magazine/07PAKISTAN.html

By BARRY BEARAK

``Pakistan is a great hub of duplicity, and the maulana was just one of the many chameleon characters who seemed able to operate at both its center and fringe, something like the nation itself, which is one of America`s essential allies in the war against terrorism and also one of terrorism`s essential incubators in its war against the West.``

``Since its establishment, it has been in want of a coherent national identity: some there sarcastically call it less a nation than a crowd.``

``The military has controlled the country for about half its 56 years. No elected government has ever completed a full term, and even when one is in place, it stays there only at the pleasure of the generals.``

``In early 1999, just months into his tenure as army chief, he ordered the paramilitary forces of the Northern Light Infantry across the agreed cease-fire line. When the troops were finally discovered, the Pakistanis claimed they were mujahedeen acting on their own, a feeble story belied when the bodies of dead soldiers began to be returned to their families. ``