Should Pakistan, too, Dump the Commonwealth?

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Disgusting ... the way some Indian friends have acted on this board.

Anyway... I think Commonwealth is an important symbol. If some in Pakistan favor the abandonment of this very exclusive fraternity, I say why not leave the OIC? That is much more useless body to be a part of. If Naqshbandi feels Commonwealth is slavery to the british, I say OIC is a form of slavery to those no good A-Rabs!

Musharraf has to be extremely stupid to leave the commonwealth... Mugabe (and prevously Bhutto in Pakistan) suffered from an advanced form of Megalomania.... no doubt these men were brilliant in their own right... but it seems like power went to their head, and they started thinking of themselves as the champions of the third world and the downtrodden.



Jacka$$ #43


Sir, let me assure ... unlike you my concern for Ahmadis is much more genuine and personal ... my father is an Ahmadi .... half my family is ahmadi. Nothing pains me more than the treatment meted out to the ahmadis, some of whom were in the forefront of the Pakistan Movement.


However I WILL NOT LIE to make you happy. Dr. Salaam is recognized as Pakistan`s greatest scientist and even a bigot like Zia was forced to acknowledge that... after all he had that famous banquet where Dr. Salaam courageously uttered the famous words `I am a scientist by chance just like you are the president by chance` ... Dr Ata recently set up a science sectretariat for the OIC and named the hall after Dr. Salaam.

The truth is that these things are subject to political situation.... Tariq Ali pointed out that 20 years ago under Zia... Faiz Ahmed Faiz was taboo... record of all of Bhutto`s speeches were destroyed... even Wolpert`s famous book was banned... Today Faiz Ahmed Faiz`s name graces one of the busiest roads in the capital of Pakistan.... Bhutto`s speeches have started resurfacing, Wolpert`s famous book is a must for any library official or otherwise. So is the case with Dr. Abdussalaam.... no one can wipe him off our national memory. Infact the common man is not aware that Dr. Salaam, Pakistan`s only nobel prize winner, was an Ahmadi. Many a mullah will quote Salaam to prove that true inspiration for science comes from the Quran.


Jackass thackerey ... you are a disgusting human being. You are least concerned about the plight of the Ahmadis or women for that matter ... these are convenient sticks to beat Pakistan with. I am sure if someday this discrimination ceased in Pakistan... you will commit suicide. I have often said.... the TNT is completely invalid when it comes to Indi-bashers and Paki-Bashers ... they constitute one nation: A nation of Idiots.

-YLH

#69 by plats8

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US was not invited in by Pakistan to clear up the mess - it walked in when it wanted, will walk out at its whim
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US authorities need clearance as well as support from Pakistani agencies inside Pakistan. These are joint operations, not US operations inside Pakistani territory. Its a big difference. US agencies can`t walk in and out of every place that they want to. For example, Pakistan`s nuclear installations are strictly off limits.

A nuclear leak investigated by Pakistani agencies may be bungled because of incompetency. US investigation lends credibility to the results of investigation and strengthens the US-Pakistan relationship. In the end, Pakistani agencies will also learn something worthwhile from the FBI.

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His-Excellency #68,

Come on, there has to be a limit to spinning events. US was not invited in by Pakistan
to clear up the mess - it walked in when it wanted, will walk out at its whim. And you
don`t think this violates national self-respect ? It`s one thing to ask for help when
you need it - US presence in Pakistan post 9/11 is anything but that.

#68
Depends on highly subjective definitions of national pride. ...

After ROmair and the the pak t-shirt issue, I have rarely seen such elan in putting lipstick on a pig.

#57 by arjun_m

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Self-respecting nations don`t allow their scientists, atomic or mechanical, to be humiliated at the behest of foreign powers.
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Depends on highly subjective definitions of national pride.

Ayaz Amir may believe that investigating nuclear leaks at the behest of US is lack of self-respect. On the other hand, I believe it only proves that Pakistan is willing to go the extra mile and demonstrate that it is a responsible nuclear state. Cooperating with other nations in controlling nuclear proliferation only proves that Pakistan is a serious ally in the War against Terror.

Taking a rigid stand on the wrong issues (e.g. Kashmir) may be your concept of self-respect. I don`t share that notion. Walking lockstep with the international community will result in greater self-respect for Pakistan.

Re AirMarshal
``Throw out both Mugabe and Blair.``

Blair can be thrown out in the next general election. Mugabe cannot. The difference is democracy and it is a moral difference that you`re trying to obfuscate. The `both are equally bad` nonsense is as old as the phony science of apologia. Apologists for Nazism, Communism, Saddamism, Talibanism, and in our neck of the woods, Yahya Khanism have used the same argument to put a moral equivalence on protagonists who were distinctly different in their approach to right-wrong.

What is the Commonwealth good for?

Hmm..It used to be good for Canadian residents of Pakistani origin, not requiring a visa to visit the USA. But now that doesn`t hold anymore.

The Games are nice. It allows countries like Pakistan (and especially, much larger ones like India) to win some medals, against the (weaker) goras, when they have no chance of winning any against other countries in Olympics.

Other than that, I don`t really know what it is good for. I doubt it would affect my life much, if Pakistan was in or out. But, it is always good to be a part of as many organizations as possible, unless they are doing harm. And I don`t think the Commonwealth is doing any harm to Pakistan. So Pakistan should not dump it.

As for Zimbabwe: from whatever I have read, it was screwed by the White leadership, and now it is being screwed by the Black leadership. Where has this happened before? Do I hear India and Pakistan? This is the tragedy of third world countries. Every leadership screws them.

As for UK: They, like the USA, always seem to be on a moral high-horse, for some reason. Everyone else is wrong and they are right (or moral). I agree with the first part, in case of the Zimbabwein govt. But not with the second. One could make a pretty good argument that what the UK has done in Iraq, is a much bigger rights violation than what the Zimbabwein govt. is doing in Zimbabwe. UK has just done a much better job of spinning it.

People would laugh if Mugabe said he was violating White Zimbabwein rights for their own benefits. As they should laugh. However, there are some people (including some on this site) who don`t laugh, when Blair says the same thing about violating Iraq for its citizens` benefit.

As I said, a better job of spinning.

In fact, the people of every country in the world (except Israel and USA), including even its own citizens, accuse UK of violations in Iraq. While there are citizens of a few countries (more than two, at least) that do not oppose the Zimbabwein govt.

So, everyone on a high-horse, opposing one country and supporting the other, needs to get off it. Point out the violations evenly and objectively. Zimbabwe`s govt. is violating rights to keep its power. And its biggest adversary, UK, is doing the same, to keep its power.

My solution: Throw out both Mugabe and Blair.

Or keep both of them in power. But there is no way, one can be supported and the other opposed. And Blair himself, certainly, cannot be the spokesperson for pointing out anyone else`s violation.

Maybe Mugabe should say he is looking for WMDs in White farms.

P.S. Wasn`t it the Zimbabwein rep at the Commonwealth, who announced the banning of Pakistan from this organization? Shows how ridiculous things get. Pakistan gets banned, even though, the Pakistan govt. was quite a bit better than Zimbabwe`s, in terms of human rights. While Zimbabwe doesn`t get banned. And nothing happens to the Indian govt., even after the pogrom(s) there, that were supported by the BJP.

I guess elections are more important than rights violations. Elected govts. can literally get away with murder.

``what, exactly, is the value of Commonwealth membership? What benefits, if any, do really accrue from the ‘club’? ``
Good question, and not just for Pakistan! Since all economic and political preferences have become obsolete, what useful purpose is this not-so-exclusive club serving?
...the rest of the article is not that impressive!

His Excellency at # 55:

While the Fundoo Indiots like arjun, jay, gay, pee-mishra, etc. may be posting trash messages from a fundoo Hindu Indiotland, from the statements issued from both the Western Capitals and Islamabad, it seems that the relationship is of strategic nature. However, you are right about democratic credentials. Here too, I am positive that as soon as Pakistan`s economic and social reforms are completed and it begins to reap the harvest, President Musharraf will return the power fully to the elected Government. A news of today confirms that he has delegated some more powers to the House of PM that formally were with him.

so my dear Ambassador -- you are advocating that Pakistan should join the world`s foremost PARIAH CLUB headed by that Black Racist Mugabe? --

Musharaf n Mugabe .....MnM? -- certainly rhymes well....

SHAME ON YOU -- no wonder Pakistan diplomacy in shambles....

the question being pondered right now around the world capitals is: Should Commonwealth DUMP Bushrraf`s Pakistan -- NOT the vice versa....:-)

to #44 by fuzair on December 11
``when chuutyas like this have served as Pakistan`s ambassador to any place more important than some gutter Islamic Republic. ``

you must restrain and you must shame

soundmeister #59

Pakistan is on the right path. Leave them alone. They will soon be leaders of the world.

My only fear is Vajpayee. I hope he doesn`t halt Pakitan`s steady and otherwise unstoppable progress to new heights of pristine Islamic glory.

Ali_1 #56,

I tend to agree with Fuzair`s post #54. Perhaps his personal bias against bureaucrats
made his earlier post colourful, but the content does stand. Mugabe was questionable
to begin with, and has become a tyrant of the first order over the past 24 years. Ghori
conveniently sidesteps that and spins a yarn about complete non-issues. It is a very
weak article; coming from a career diplomat, even more so.

Fuzair`s fauji background has little to do with the facts presented here. Of course,
if you guys have past issues to sort out, that`s a different matter :)

How long will Pakistan continue to be haunted by the living ghost of India? Is the need to prove TNT right so compelling that each and everything Pakistan does as a country is dictated by what India has/ has not done.

Just wait a few years-- we`ll be so far ahead of you guys by then that we`ll just stop listening to your whining. Hopefully by then either you`ll realise the error of your ways and blindly imitate us or (god forbid) your entire system collapses into chaos and anarchy. Either way, India can`t lose. So wake up and smell whatever it is you guys drink in the mornings....