One Down Two to Go

Tumbling heros,

Pakistan has quitely started dismantling the ghouri missile models named after a person who did not represent the modern values. Changes are being forced on pakistan by the explosive charged winds from the deserts of iraq, the blasts from the daisy cutters from afghanistan.
Slowly, and unnoticed another hero has fallen from the pedestal. Aperson who stole sevtrets from a dutch facility, and got fame and fortune in pakistan bsed on that act, continued with it for more riches, and he has become the next fallen hero.

Re Arjun

``So again: Was the war in iraq about WMDs or about salvation from tyranny for the iraqi people?``

Welcome to reality. Who cares? We won, apologists lost, Saddam is behind bars, Iraq is free. You can whine till kingdom con about legality/illegality and it will be as irrelevant then as it is now.

``If it was the later, why were the iraqis picked for deliverance before the starving AFricans?``

Because Iraqis were being murdered and there is a difference between premeditated murder and dying from disease, hunger what. Wait for the article on AIDS/Hunger/Africa to discuss this. I will not further comment on this Africa theme.

As much as I sometimes find Hamidm`s posts rather too comic, I must say his message to the apologists is much suitable to their whininess than mine is: you guys are just plain jealous that the beautiful blonde won and won big. There is nothing I can say to make you guys feel better about the doom you`re feeling with the downfall of Saddam. And I won`t anymore on this board.

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shobuz #64 One could discuss the rest of the points, but lets get one thing straight: you write ``These fixes will help a Muslim parent of US Citizen to come out of paranoia that if their daughter wears hijab will not be ridiculed by classmates or being harassed``.

No, my good friend, these fixes will not help muslim parents come out of their paranoia. Because their paranoia is caused by their own screwed up personalities. The fact is that no one cares one bit whether they wear the hijab or not in the US. And americans are far too civilized to harass girls wearing hijab - unlike Pakistan where i recall as a student every foreigner was harassed:

it started in class 3, when british student student i remember in school in rawalpindi was getting into fights every third day because boys were teasing his sister; an american student joined us in class 8 and he was in tears the third day because the fellow sitting next to him kept abusing him in urdu; an african student in college had me as his only friend - once i saw a group of pakistani students around him having a great time poking fun at him; and not just college - as a civil service probationer, we had an elderly scotsman instructor who went with us to a field trip in peshawar: the probationers started poking fun at him in urdu (and of course he understood all that) until he left us and went head down to his room - i followed him there and apologized on behalf of the students: the man actually broke down and started crying that even though he had taken pakistani nationality, he was still treated like a foreigner.

I am telling you all this because I am fed up of these hypocrites who come to the US, have no appreciation for the hospitality and tolerance shown to them (particularly after 9/11), start putting on hijab not because their mothers wore them in pakistan but because they want to get attention - and then whine about people making fun of them and whine about the patriot act (when in fact they have a degree of freedom in the US to follow their faith that they would never dream of giving anyone in pakistan). If the tables are turned (as in cases above) these same people would behave like animals towards westerners or blacks or anyone else who doesnt look like them. They are only fooling themselves with their ``paranoia`` and their ``pain`` at having to take shoes off at the airport - americans are ten times smarter then these morons. and i know their hypocrisy better than the americans since i grew up watching their behavior towards foreigners.

So, excuse me if i am not impressed by your post.

Re Ferozk

I answered the questions that you posed in your last query; you asked me to defend W`s actions, I did. What a previous president did or did not do does is not necessarily incumbent on this president. And yes, it is a matter of which admin is in the White House because it is the prez who directs defense policy.

``I disapprove of the manner in which it was carried out``

As I said, Saddam would not have left promptly after receiving a Fedex letter requesting him to depart. Laaton ke bhut baaton se nahin maante.

Re arjun

``That`s a specious argument.

There are many people dying of hunger in Africa: ...``

Yes it is. It is also rather extraneous if not irrelevant to the current debate about removal of an atrocious dictator in Baghdad. Perhpas we can revisit this issue when there is an article about hunger and AIDS in Africa.

re shobuz

Actually I don`t watch Fox; it`s style is a bit too sensational for my sensibilities.

``kothai Islam ar musolmun der gali diben...``

Islam ar musolmaan der gaali deelam kothai? Sontrashi ar soiroshashak der ninda kora ar Islam ke gaali debar maajhe anek parthakka aachche.

I have never claimed myself to be an expert but I thank you for twice mentioning that on my behalf:)

Few more fixes Americans are working on.

1. Stop passing Patriotic Act II.
2. Getting rid of Paul and Rummy for lying and spending billions of dollars on Iraq
3. A think tank that includes not only Israelis, but muslim too.
4. Stop putting too much attention on what muslims are or are not, and have confidence that we can take care of them or any body, if necessary.
5. Exposing the special interest people in DC who are using our assets, people, strength to make moves based on false intelligence.
6. Come back to negotiation rather building new weapons.
7. Be clear that not only the oil, but a true sense of humanitarian need also drives our foreign policy.
8. We will not support Hosnai Mubarak and Kings of Saud via declaring the 11 pages.
9. We will stop getting support from nation via bribing money or incentive to them.

Mostly
10. Bring some tangible, sensible proof on exposing terrorist cells in North America, rather based on rhetoric’s, junctures and finding Arabic magazines as a source of proof. Thus speculation, confusion and conspiracy theories will be at minimal level.

These fixes will help a Muslim parent of US Citizen to come out of paranoia that if their daughter wears hijab will not be ridiculed by classmates or being harassed, or that if Allen Muhammad and Joe Ismail does bad thing it will not Islam be on trial by Fox and CNN.

What the hell? #241 was not by me.

There was a story a few days ago on how Geroge Schulz directed Rumsfeld to tell Saddam that the US was condemning the iraqi use of chemical weapons against iran in public because the US was opposed to the use of CW in general. Schulz went on to say that, however, in this case the US was determined to see that Iran was defeated. In other words, use CW if you must. This is the level of hypocrisy in the US administration. The hawks supporting the war also are hypocritical in many ways. Use of force against others is OK so long the others doesn`t include my country of birth. The arabs are dirty and need to be reformed. The arabs need to be saved from the monsters that rule them, once the monsters have outlived their usefulness against us, etc. etc. Conservatives are supposed to have an abiding faith in the rule of law and the Constitution. Not the neocons. To them selective suspension of constitutional rule is justified if it threatens their hold on power (in this they are no different from Saddam or any other dictator for whom self-preservation is the first priority), the US can flout international law but other countries may not, the US can dictate terms to the world community but the reverse is not acceptable. The focus actually is on us. If these people were to have been born or immigrated to another country then that country presumably would have all these superior rights. It`s a selfish policy, one that degrades the rule of law and is damaging to world peace.

ferozk #257 So, we are in agreement that the US is overall a force for the good in this world. I agree with you that the US has an imperfect past - and so do the american people themselves! And what is more, the american people have done something about making sure they fix these problems they inherited from their past (racism, treatment of american indians, excesses of capitalism, backroom politics, law and order - there is not just general sentiment against these, there are specific actions taken by the US government to effectively fix thes problems:

1. racism was fixed via integration in the military in the 1940`s, enforcement of federal laws to desegregate the south in the 1950`s, culminating iin the civil rights act of 1964 and countless programs designed to help blacks help themselves after that)

2. american indians have the option of joining the mainstream (as many have - including incidentally Churchill himself who often referred proudly to his amercian indian great grandmotehr, and countless ``white looking`` people who proudly proclaim their american indian heritage) or living on reservations (where they get governemnt aid and also scalp visitors with their casinos);

3. excesses of capitalism: FDR`s New Deal and activist federal reserve ensured that the negative aspects of capitalism were curbed while the positive aspects (encouragement of individual initiative) thrived - making the US the prime economy of the world for the past half century, while marxist intellectuals failed miserably.

4. democratization: FDR again gets credit for clearing the air off these smoke filled backrooms and going directly to the public.

5. law and order: law was brought to the wild west in the 19th century, and to the city streets in the 1930`s when FBI agents shot it out with the mafia in the streets of chicago and new york.

This record of fixing problems is something any nation would be proud to have. Compare this to the miserable performance of the pakistan government (in addressing OUR problems like poverty, law and order, democratization), and I think you will agree that one cannot take success for granted. The US is today engaged in a fight to protect its citizens from a repeat of 9/11. This is a fight in which US victory will have positive affects on all other countries. The positive affects on Pakistan are apparent even now: the military is being forced to curb terrorist camps; for the first time in history the pakistan military has sought to bring law and order to our ``wild west`` (the tirbal belt).

Thus, while agreeing with you that the US has an imperfect past, I hope you will agree with me that the US also has an outstanding record of fixing such problems.

ferozk,

the aei has suggested many ways to skin a cat - it is not always necessary to invade and occupy a country ............ libya is a case in point, russia is another ........... pakistan must be reconstructed and democracy has to be brought to it - the question is how do you do it?............. very, very carefully because it is a powderkeg with a short fuse ........... if the aei doesn`t come up with a plan, who will?............ the horrible hindoos or the god-crazed mullahs?............ i will take the aei any day.........

#Sigalph

You seem to understand & believe everything that Fox tell`s you.

Valo likh te paren valo kotha, kintu kothai, kothai Islam ar musolmun der gali diben, khora jukti dekhaben, ar protibaad korle raag koren | Valo mando shob dharme, jati ar deshe ache. E to buzhen to e ta buzhte to ashubidha hower kothan na| ta hol e to ar torker proyozon nei.


Your ‘expert understanding’ is not owed to your neuron’s firing rather imprinted by CNN & Fox mullah.

re Airmarshal 254

As far as Ramsey Clark is concerned, his true character consists of kow-towing to every genocidal maniac, including his pal Slobodan Milosevic, as depicted by a San Fancisco Chronicle columnist in

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/3/4/132313.shtml

Second to that Grand Ayatollah of Anti-Americanism Noam Chomsky, Clark is probably the Hojjateleslam of the Anti-Americanism crowd.

Airmarshal, you can do better than quote known Anti-American activists. I mean there must be a dozen or so looney left Democrats in Congress or your own Canuck Liberals who can be quoted more credibly to basj America, no?

#220 TAhmed,

As long you won`t byte, I am coming down!!

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re: Sigalph # 249

Sigalph, you still have not answered the basic question. Why did the United States allow Kurds rebellion to be crushed by Saddam Hussein in 1991? It is not the issue of which administration is residing in the White House. In 1991, George Bush, Sr. was the president and he failed to support the uprising against Saddam Hussein. Why?

The question is not about George Bush, Jr`s. failure to act; it is about his father`s failure to act and why he did nothing to aid the Kurds in 1991?

As to realpolitik of the situation in 1980s, I agree with you and I do not fault the United States for the actions it took. I fault the United States for denying that it took the side of Iraq against Iran in the 1980s and in doing so, indeed aided and abetted the rule of Saddam Hussein.

The United Nations` resolution 1441 could have been implemented without any problems. I support military action only as a last resort and like to give diplomacy as much leeway as possible. In this case, I think there was a rush to war on the part of the United States and diplomacy was sabotaged on purpose. I know you will disagree with this statement, but again, we differ in our interpretations.

For the record, I do not oppose the over throw of Saddam Hussein; I disapprove of the manner in which it was carried out. War and the invasion of Iraq, no matter how noble a cause it was claiming, was illegal. Laws, and that goes for international laws, are designed for security of the people and societies. Laws are like trees, behind which we can take shelter when the winds of anarchy and chaos blow and granted the Devil hides behind the same trees, it still does not give us the excuse to cut down the trees to get to the Devil. For, when we have chopped down all the trees and the winds blow, how will be prevent ourselves from being blown away?

In Pakistan, there are no laws and it is the law of the jungle, which exist in everyday life. You live in a society of laws and you may have a disdain for those laws, but those of us who live without laws really appreciate what laws mean and how important it is to have them in our midst.

As to placing the blame; I can easily place the blame. Placing the blame is not the problem, but the problem is when people, who think they hold the monopoly on truth disagree with those who have a different opinion.

Concerning the November elections, I will tell you after the first Tuesday in November! ;)

Ciao