Khadija Hassan December 22, 2003
#12 Posted by temporal on December 26, 2003 6:57:27 pm
aamir:
gnothi seuton?
o tempora! o mores!
look around (specially since you are in lahore today)....the friends you see around will be the aunties of tomorrow;)
khadija:
...the promised response is delayed...but it will come...been preoccupied some...
...t
gnothi seuton?
o tempora! o mores!
look around (specially since you are in lahore today)....the friends you see around will be the aunties of tomorrow;)
khadija:
...the promised response is delayed...but it will come...been preoccupied some...
...t
#11 Posted by Ansari on December 26, 2003 9:19:56 am
Enjoyed reading this. Yes, Lahore`s aunties do have a penchant for picking the most garish outfits to costume themselves with. I think the aesthetic sense you were alluding to is not just a function of less money but a more comprehensive exposure to various styles and ways of living. Rozaiba`s right in mentioning how this concept of a more wilfull and informed attitude to matters of dress can be extrapolated to all areas of life.
Gnothi seuton, or know thyself.
Gnothi seuton, or know thyself.
#10 Posted by ZahraJ on December 26, 2003 7:41:54 am
It`s a timely article. Probably, it should have also find some place in the local newspapers. Ironically, money CAN buy a lot; but it cannot provide you with the sense, wisdom, experience, and enlightenment. You have to earn those. Unless you do not earn all the above yourself including money, you do not ``get`` many things in life. Pakistani Society in general is way too much influenced by the Indian Media, both drama and movies. There is no other outlet for women except for spending money and eating out. No education is provided to women to manage their finances. To top it all, a woman`s financial worth is determined by the man who bears her burden. Obviously, when there is not any outlet for expression and thought then people will dwell on glitter.
By the way, one of my cousins, an anthropologist recommended me to look into Newsline`s latest issue on my way back from Lahore. Since he has worked with the Agha Khan Development Programs for quite sometime, he was very passionate about that study. Probably that study may reveal deeper insights into the current psyche.
By the way, one of my cousins, an anthropologist recommended me to look into Newsline`s latest issue on my way back from Lahore. Since he has worked with the Agha Khan Development Programs for quite sometime, he was very passionate about that study. Probably that study may reveal deeper insights into the current psyche.
#9 Posted by ZahraJ on December 26, 2003 7:41:54 am
It`s a timely article. Probably, it should have also find some place in the local newspapers. Ironically, money CAN buy a lot; but it cannot provide you with the sense, wisdom, experience, and enlightenment. You have to earn those. Unless you do not earn all the above yourself including money, you do not ``get`` many things in life. Pakistani Society in general is way too much influenced by the Indian Media, both drama and movies. There is no other outlet for women except for spending money and eating out. No education is provided to women to manage their finances. To top it all, a woman`s financial worth is determined by the man who bears her burden. Obviously, when there is not any outlet for expression and thought then people will dwell on glitter.
By the way, one of my cousins, an anthropologist recommended me to look into Newsline`s latest issue on my way back from Lahore. Since he has worked with the Agha Khan Development Programs for quite sometime, he was very passionate about that study. Probably that study may reveal deeper insights into the current psyche.
By the way, one of my cousins, an anthropologist recommended me to look into Newsline`s latest issue on my way back from Lahore. Since he has worked with the Agha Khan Development Programs for quite sometime, he was very passionate about that study. Probably that study may reveal deeper insights into the current psyche.
#8 Posted by anew on December 25, 2003 6:41:21 am
#6
Khadija
I appreciate your `discerning eye` and `sense of style` being classified as the hallmark of `traditional rich` which `neo-rich` Lahoris lack. The `aesthetic eye` is also heriditary feature. True, money can`t buy the elegance but Islam (the one without break) can take us out of this confusion, contrast and brand craze. Money can buy diamonds, fashion and brands but not the Style. That is exclusive for the Class, no matter how full their purse is.
Did I deduce right this time?
But take my word just for a change, Islam cures all these `complexes` and make your life and thoughts more meaningful.
My `annoyance` is not with what you did write but `the attitudes` you described. Otherwise you did write very well and `more educative and effective` than `my preaching`. I will also request you like Temporal did that `continue portraying the picture` in Lahori landscape.
#7 Posted by temporal on December 24, 2003 2:13:03 pm
Khadija/k-s:
just a quick note...appreciate the response:)...you should write more here...(not that rag!...heheh just kiddin`)
...the divine leeway has landed me in more trouble than one can imagine...tho` to be fair has rescued me also out of some impossible situations:)
...t
ps: oh, this does not mean you`re off the hook...detailed response later...
just a quick note...appreciate the response:)...you should write more here...(not that rag!...heheh just kiddin`)
...the divine leeway has landed me in more trouble than one can imagine...tho` to be fair has rescued me also out of some impossible situations:)
...t
ps: oh, this does not mean you`re off the hook...detailed response later...
#6 Posted by khatam-shud on December 24, 2003 1:09:10 pm
hey temporal: glad to see you still patiently reading my writing. i dont disagree with what you say but there is so much to dressing up that a lot of people just, i guess, dont want to understand. i think ill just itemize my responses to your comments:
``divine leeway`` - i will use that :).
and your caveat: made me smile.
``diamonds are for dummies!...`` well...diamonds are diamonds and you can tell fakes apart from the real thing..its almost instinctive in some cases. the cant-tell-the-difference deal was sparked off by a report saying that debeers has to laser-tag its` gems to distinguish them from top quality fakes. but place a real set by a fake one and you can so tell which is real! i guess ill just close this by saying - i love them and, as you say, with love comes the hormonal factor and so maybe thats just my blinded-by-love-ness talking!
``the hormonal factor`` - i talk about objective fashion and not subjective love so the point u make here is invalid.
``fresh/youthful ...looks`` - i think i said that. read this: ``The perfect look emerges when one focuses not just on what goes on the body but also on what goes inside it. Healthy hair and skin add a special glamour that no lakh-rupay-ka-jora can. And the bounce of a fit body whether stick-thin or curved-just-right cannot be purchased with a liposuction or tummy tuck``.
``how one carries`` and ``more than attitude`` - absolutely. But with no attitude you got no carriage. i should have elaborated on this though. point well taken.
and i attack not the nouveau riche but any monied person who closes his/her mind off to creativity because he/she can simply buy everything.
and anew: wow! thats a lot of rage for a clarification. lets take this, again, one-by-one:
``The people who have fear of ALLAH...Islam condemns both miserliness and extravagance``
ummmmm...where did that come from? and as an attack! i dont think ive been easy on wasteful spenders. i think money can stifle creativity - read my article again, if you like, ive put it down quite clearly. i may not have quoted islam and moderation but i dont like throwing the name of Allah/religion around in vain. Your fervor is great but please give Islam etc. a break please!
you live among the wealthy class - good for you!
you find them to be nauseating show-offs more often than not - welcome to my frustration.
``Ather Shahzad`s touch`` - dont even get me started!
``temporal is right`` i agree
but then you say : ``How much money they waste on ``Healthy hair and skin``?`` - i think temporal agreed with me on the health-is-a-pre-requisite-for-beauty. So if you are taking sides, whose side are you on? because as i see it - temporal isnt really attacking anything that i said. which is what is nice about him...he discusses. I wish more chowk-wallahs would do the same.
and, youre rich right? you said that. So why do you think you have to spend money for healthy hair and skin? vegetables do the trick quite nicely for both and they dont cost much. just a little fact for you.
``divine leeway`` - i will use that :).
and your caveat: made me smile.
``diamonds are for dummies!...`` well...diamonds are diamonds and you can tell fakes apart from the real thing..its almost instinctive in some cases. the cant-tell-the-difference deal was sparked off by a report saying that debeers has to laser-tag its` gems to distinguish them from top quality fakes. but place a real set by a fake one and you can so tell which is real! i guess ill just close this by saying - i love them and, as you say, with love comes the hormonal factor and so maybe thats just my blinded-by-love-ness talking!
``the hormonal factor`` - i talk about objective fashion and not subjective love so the point u make here is invalid.
``fresh/youthful ...looks`` - i think i said that. read this: ``The perfect look emerges when one focuses not just on what goes on the body but also on what goes inside it. Healthy hair and skin add a special glamour that no lakh-rupay-ka-jora can. And the bounce of a fit body whether stick-thin or curved-just-right cannot be purchased with a liposuction or tummy tuck``.
``how one carries`` and ``more than attitude`` - absolutely. But with no attitude you got no carriage. i should have elaborated on this though. point well taken.
and i attack not the nouveau riche but any monied person who closes his/her mind off to creativity because he/she can simply buy everything.
and anew: wow! thats a lot of rage for a clarification. lets take this, again, one-by-one:
``The people who have fear of ALLAH...Islam condemns both miserliness and extravagance``
ummmmm...where did that come from? and as an attack! i dont think ive been easy on wasteful spenders. i think money can stifle creativity - read my article again, if you like, ive put it down quite clearly. i may not have quoted islam and moderation but i dont like throwing the name of Allah/religion around in vain. Your fervor is great but please give Islam etc. a break please!
you live among the wealthy class - good for you!
you find them to be nauseating show-offs more often than not - welcome to my frustration.
``Ather Shahzad`s touch`` - dont even get me started!
``temporal is right`` i agree
but then you say : ``How much money they waste on ``Healthy hair and skin``?`` - i think temporal agreed with me on the health-is-a-pre-requisite-for-beauty. So if you are taking sides, whose side are you on? because as i see it - temporal isnt really attacking anything that i said. which is what is nice about him...he discusses. I wish more chowk-wallahs would do the same.
and, youre rich right? you said that. So why do you think you have to spend money for healthy hair and skin? vegetables do the trick quite nicely for both and they dont cost much. just a little fact for you.
#5 Posted by anew on December 24, 2003 7:52:51 am
#3 by khatam-shud on December 23, 2003 7:55am PT
The people who have fear of ALLAH and have fair earnings are not extravagant. They have different culture. The culture of simplicty. Islam encourages moderation in all affairs. Islam condemns both miserliness and extravagance.
``… and do not be extravagant wasters. Those who are extravagant are kinsmen of Satan.`` (Surat al-Israa` 17:26-27)
Lavishness and excess often lead to arrogance. Additionally, they can breed envy and resentment between the affluent and less wealthy segments of society.
Khadija!
Unfortunately, I live among the ``Class`` you described and based on my personal experience - These are not the Real people; they are artificial and show-offs and in majority of the cases, wealth of these people is quite dubious.
Temporal has quite simple ways to look graceful. It is not always designer clothes, diamonds and Athar Shazad`s touch. The affluent class needs to be simple so the middle class come out of the `catch-up` complex. These neo-richs `awam` look real funny when they are wasting money on Brands; mostly fake like them.
How much money they waste on ``Healthy hair and skin``? The ``lakh-rupay-ka-jora `` from SHE or VISAGE is a ``double fatigue``.
The people who have fear of ALLAH and have fair earnings are not extravagant. They have different culture. The culture of simplicty. Islam encourages moderation in all affairs. Islam condemns both miserliness and extravagance.
``… and do not be extravagant wasters. Those who are extravagant are kinsmen of Satan.`` (Surat al-Israa` 17:26-27)
Lavishness and excess often lead to arrogance. Additionally, they can breed envy and resentment between the affluent and less wealthy segments of society.
Khadija!
Unfortunately, I live among the ``Class`` you described and based on my personal experience - These are not the Real people; they are artificial and show-offs and in majority of the cases, wealth of these people is quite dubious.
Temporal has quite simple ways to look graceful. It is not always designer clothes, diamonds and Athar Shazad`s touch. The affluent class needs to be simple so the middle class come out of the `catch-up` complex. These neo-richs `awam` look real funny when they are wasting money on Brands; mostly fake like them.
How much money they waste on ``Healthy hair and skin``? The ``lakh-rupay-ka-jora `` from SHE or VISAGE is a ``double fatigue``.
#4 Posted by temporal on December 23, 2003 12:12:24 pm
Khadija/k-s:
…ok! will humour you if you will…:)
(caveat: this comes from a comfort-dresser who has been told by gods-at-home that he has no sense of colour, dress and what-to-wear-when at all and has often been accused to intentionally select dress to offend sensibilities…e.g. bow tie to chehlums and s-kameez at the formals…in defense to which he meekly says poets specially minor poets have this divine leeway)
now some observations:
--diamonds are for dummies!...and those with exceptionally long necks…(and there are other requirements too)…how many balls are held in Lahore annually?…one or two?…as for shaadis and milaads…lahol e wala!…a friend in the trade confides most people cannot discern between a fake and a real set if umer bin abdul aziz’s life depended on it…ok…make that imam hussain’s…ok…strike them both…mushy or fazloo?
--there is only so much one can do with shalwar-kameez…(am saying this in the sense of the given constraints and without being facetious)
--exceptions can get away with anything (this needs further elaboration)
…the hormonal factor: my beloved can wear anything and look exceptional…
…fresh youthful/scrubbed looks wins hands down
…how one carries (poise, rhythm, balance, walk and yes eyes) is more important than fabric material, color, cut (this is more than attitude you wrote of…some women can carry any dress…price, designer, fabric no bar…others can insult the best designer`s creations so effortlessly...
…guess this shall set the ball rolling for now?…more on nouveau riche’s money sophistry later
rgds,
t
ps: nice to see you back here:)
…ok! will humour you if you will…:)
(caveat: this comes from a comfort-dresser who has been told by gods-at-home that he has no sense of colour, dress and what-to-wear-when at all and has often been accused to intentionally select dress to offend sensibilities…e.g. bow tie to chehlums and s-kameez at the formals…in defense to which he meekly says poets specially minor poets have this divine leeway)
now some observations:
--diamonds are for dummies!...and those with exceptionally long necks…(and there are other requirements too)…how many balls are held in Lahore annually?…one or two?…as for shaadis and milaads…lahol e wala!…a friend in the trade confides most people cannot discern between a fake and a real set if umer bin abdul aziz’s life depended on it…ok…make that imam hussain’s…ok…strike them both…mushy or fazloo?
--there is only so much one can do with shalwar-kameez…(am saying this in the sense of the given constraints and without being facetious)
--exceptions can get away with anything (this needs further elaboration)
…the hormonal factor: my beloved can wear anything and look exceptional…
…fresh youthful/scrubbed looks wins hands down
…how one carries (poise, rhythm, balance, walk and yes eyes) is more important than fabric material, color, cut (this is more than attitude you wrote of…some women can carry any dress…price, designer, fabric no bar…others can insult the best designer`s creations so effortlessly...
…guess this shall set the ball rolling for now?…more on nouveau riche’s money sophistry later
rgds,
t
ps: nice to see you back here:)
#3 Posted by khatam-shud on December 23, 2003 7:55:35 am
Hi anew: Thanks for the response but my point is not about halal or haram money. its about blindly following the dictates of those who may have nothing to do with us. Even when money is halal - whatever your definition of halal may be - people can still beome sheep-like. And as far as writing material goes - the word is not subservient to the wallet.
rozaiba: what you say is interesting because u have realized that my point about money and fashion is not restricted to the world of fashion but applies to human thinking/behaviour in many ways...it would be nice if u`d elaborate though. I`d love to discuss this...
rozaiba: what you say is interesting because u have realized that my point about money and fashion is not restricted to the world of fashion but applies to human thinking/behaviour in many ways...it would be nice if u`d elaborate though. I`d love to discuss this...
#2 Posted by anew on December 23, 2003 12:44:18 am
The main thing about Money is that it should be Halal (earned by fair means). If most of us had so, Khadija won`t have much to write.
#1 Posted by rozaiba on December 22, 2003 8:06:11 pm
Khadija,
Focussed piece. It`s concept can easily be carried out to other areas of life where compromises offer great security and comfort. These have a very seductive appeal.
Focussed piece. It`s concept can easily be carried out to other areas of life where compromises offer great security and comfort. These have a very seductive appeal.
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