Basement

chusni #55:

You can find both lyrics and audio in the voices of various singers at www.apnaorg.com/ This site contains extensive punjabi poetry in roman, arabic and gurmukhi scripts, The above one is by Shiv Kumar Batalvi and according to several sources best sung by Bhupinder and Mitali and also by Jagjit Singh. More recently this one and other poems of Shiv were sung by Hansraj Hans.

sadna:

I hope you understand my point regarding Panjabi poetic traditions and literature. Like many other desi ethnic literatures, best and the brightest ones happened to be leftists - many card carrying members of CPI. I do not deny some of them being sympathetic to the Khalistani movement as a result of the tradition of ethnic poets to side with the underdogs, disadvantaged, disenfranchised, down and out sections of the society. It is therefore not surprising that Kanwal, a committed athiest would write some sympathetic literature about the plight of the families of supprters of Khalistani movement.

Amrita Pritam`s fame and higher ranking is due to combination of factors in which literature is but one. She has been activitst of noble causes for decades and being a woman helps in predominantly male literature. Im many ways, her ranking is like that if Iqbal and Sufi poets where extra-literary activities generate respect and that respect raises the ranking in poetry and poetry returns that favor by raising the religious or political stature - like capillary action, many areas complementing each other.

The name of Panjabi woman missing in that list, according to my personal favorites is that of Romila Thapar - the eminent historian of pre-Islamic subcontinent.

Zahra,

Believe me when I say that this board is no different than the kinds of responses than other writers get. The writer of this board and this piece seems to make it a point to belittle the work of others-in a manner that is most undeserved. Although he has no tolerance nor any respect for the work of others, (based on an ajeeb process in which through spiritual divining he can judge the ``character`` of a writer) he has been given a lot more leeway than he has given others. And that is because we are self respecting enough to address his work and make valid points.

If this has been unpleasant for you, please make it a point to visit future boards of writers Godot has less than constructive criticism for.

Sameer #53, plats8 #52
er, Godot did say he wanted to translate a Sikh writer. The politics of Punjabi literature are beyond me.

Sameer, normally, the predominance of Punjabi women among women chosen from all over India in that (rather obscure) top 50 list would be taken as a positive sign, not a nationalist conspiracy against Punjabis.


khamkhwa #51
Thanks for the correction. I did say `if I am not mistaken`.

so after all there is intelligent life on CHOWK.

Thank you Godot for the cue and opportunity. Some of your cultural cobwebs do need to be cleared though--if you know what I mean. (Now be a sport)

Could someone please provide the lyrics and/or audio of shiv kumar`s Ujj din charryaa tiray rang vargaa. Also any other stuff that one is aware of (but must be of similar calibre or mood-- I know all `pop` ones). The kudip deepak one I like the most.

I already browsed most of the sites. Maybe there`s one I know not.

Please Please help! SameerJB!

Other good stuff from Other eastern languages with intro. gist and translations will be highly appreciated. Religious & philosophical ones even more valued.

thanks.

..ik chadar maili si...was by rajinder singh bedi...slip from sadna? qayamat ki nishani...;)

Sadna #50,

I guess the blooper is not really a blooper in this context. I presume Sameer merely
pointed it out to correct an error, with no ``malicious`` intent.

I agree that translations such as these (if there are more competent ones, by all
means share them) serve a purpose in a forum such as chowk. I hadn`t read
Premchand`s Nijaat before it appeared here. Anyone seen Sadgati, by the way ?

sadna:

``Ik chadar meli si`` is by Rajinder Singh Bedi and not Amrita Pritam. My remark about Amrita Pritam being a Hindu and not a Sikh was in response to freethinker using her name as Amrita Pritam Kaur and me trying to correct it. Whether you like it or not, the truth is that anti-establishment Panjabi writers on both side of the border get poor rating (in other words, the status of standard nationalistic line towing writers are elevated). Panjabi language has no shortage of poets, novelists and short story-writers but naming Amrita Pritam as the best by mostly non-Panjabi circles raises some serious questions. I am not well-read in Panjabi literature but in short stories and novels, Jaswant Singh Kanwal would come out near the top. Now because he was once a naxalite, commie and anti-establishment does not mean degrading his literary value based on 50+ books. In Urdu, Faiz Ahmed Faiz would come on or near the top by most Urdu lovers despite his similar anti-establishment, commie, secular background. It is sad that when it comes to Panjabi literature rankings, both nations factor in insecurities with almost veto powers. The anti-establishment Panjabis are least Khalistani, by the way, due to secular, liberal and communism influences whereas religion is very definite component of Khalistani movement. Many such writers, singers and other artists were shunned or even murdered by the activists of Khalistani movement. So there!

I am not sure if Amrita Preetam would be happy to hear so much noise coming out of her ``Thehkhana`` in January 2004. There was a lot to contemplate on in this piece.

It`s sad to browse through the silly and childish brawl taking place on this board. If someone did not like something in this piece they could have pointed it out and moved on. Why keep on hammering on an issue ? Well, some adults (both men and women) on this board really need to grow up.

An interaction board full of distasteful communication!

(What a nice way of sticking to your 2004 resolutions!)

So Godot apparently translated an unverified ``Indian nationalist``-favored Hindu writer as opposed to a ``Khalistani/Punjabi nationalist``-favored Sikh one. Gosh what a blooper.

Of course, the question of whether the language Ms Pritam writes in should be taught to children whose mothertongue it is, is a question only the denizens of the RAW-ISI domain should discuss, going by Godot`s last interactions on the subject.

Then there is the question of the translation itself. It `vibes`, though the formatting and the grammatical errors are a bit jarring.

However, its very worthwhile to attempt translations such as these, which make the literature in any language of the subcontinent accessible to a larger audience. So do keep improving and do keep it up!

I remember seeing `Ik Chaadar Maili Si`, (Kulbhushan Kharbanda/Rishi Kapoor/Hema Malini). If I am not mistaken that was Amrita Pritam too.

Godot,

I figured that would be your answer. Pity.

Dost-mittar, 45

To appreciate or criticize another writer, one does not need to be better or worse than the other, as long as the appreciation or criticism is genuine. I have my own writing style and you yours. To me, sometimes we both write well, and at other times we don’t. Further, I cannot compare my style to Farzana`s. I write in my way, and she does in her way. However, there is no doubt that she is a far superior writer than me, far more flawless and flent. I dare not even attempt to duplicate her; I’ll only ruin myself.

If I can find Vijay Tendulkar’s story in Urdu, then certainly.

Samina, 46

Every time I interact with you, I have to lower myself. Frankly, I’m getting sick and tired of you. So, please, do me a favor and learn from your friends such as t-bhai and Shandy and stay away from me. Thank you.

Dost #41,

I did see Pinjar - have mixed feelings about it. Do share your thoughts when you
get a chance to watch it.

Godot,

It is unbelievable that having been told the MANY ways in which your work fails at conveying this writer`s ideas, you`d rather write it off as ``animosity``. On one hand you denied there was anything wrong with it, and when shown better interpretations, denied that, even though it is plainly obvious to all of us that yours is the least competant translation.

Secondly, having this utter lack of grace and humility regarding the limitations of your work, you project your very strange and fragile attitude to the rest of us. I know writers who wont email a message unless it is concise, trim and accurate. The excuse that Chowk is for amateurs wont cut it. A conscientious, or self proclaimed conscientious writer takes responsibility for their work, regardless. In addition, I have praised the work of writers I didnt personally agree with or like- praise must be given where it is due. This is called respect for the work. But you have huddled behind the curtains of your fear-which is that you should have spent a great deal more time with this before sending it off.

Finally, that you are palming all of this off with the justification that your only interest was to expose this writer to the world is the piece de resistance.

Your attitude is what stands in the way of your work-nothing else.

Godot:
I agree that it is worthwhile introducing local language writers to chowk. May I suggest Vijay Tendulkar, a marathi writer, who is much acclaimed for his socially relevant stories? I believe his daughter, Priya Tendulkar, played a socially concious woman`s role in some TV serials in India.
As far your writing style, I am not qualified to comment because you write much better than I do. But if you can adopt some of our friend Farzana`s style, it would perhaps enhance on your own.
I did not suggest that Amrita Pritam`s writings are seductive. I was merely refering to her language and voice that came across on radio. As someone else suggested, she is best known for her feminist views and her novel, Pinjar, describing a woman`s ordeal during the partition, which has now been made into a movie. I intend to see it when it becomes available in Canada.

SameerJB

Do you know much about this writer, Gurdial Singh? From this profile he sounds quite interesting I would like to get hold of his stuff.

http://www.meghdutam.com/authorstemp.php?name=writer10.htm&&printer=0

Rozaiba

Your sarcasm aside, no, I’m not looking for fake accolades as some writers (one happens to be on this board) do and are granted (yes, a couple of those who shower the other with fake accolades happen to be on this board also). I know myself quite well and know where my writings and translations stand.

I know genuine criticism when I see it and am secure enough to admit my shortcomings, even in public. However, the history and the animosity that exists between some of the interactors on this board is not visible to the ousiders such as you. The criticism you talk about is not criticim but are malicious attacks. If you notice, there are only three people involved in “criticism”. Their animosity is passed as “criticism”. You wouldn’t know the cheap shots unless you are at the receiving end of it. You are mistaken if you think that this board has turned into spit-fire because of my ego.