Another Attempt on Musharraf

#256 by dost-mittar
//...when I visit Pakistan next month, I am sure of receiving nothing but warmth and affection, even while shopping at a store with donation box for the Kashmiri mujahids...//

Obviously you will receive `` warmth and affection`` in that store - because indirectly you are putting money for their ``cause``.

Why do you shop in stores that donates money for Jihadis, anyway ??

RE #273 tahmed420

You wote in # 264:

``At least the jackals got shooed away while their queen BB dare not come into the country and can only sniff around from the outskirts in dubai. So, now we only have the vultures to worry about. Against them we have the Pakistani Fox musharaff. With the mullah vultures piggy-backed on him, they have also put themselves in a position to be dumped as and when the fox pleases.``

Now here is a New Year`s resolution for YOU

``I will not try to advise people who want Democracy to return to Pakistan ASAP via accusations of misrepresentation . And I will try to control my hatred of all things related to the name Bhutto.``


On my side I sincerely wish Fox Musharraf the best of luck. He is going to need it.

Ras

I think some of the pseudo-intellectual on this board must read this article, if they have not already.
The problems Pakistan is facing are much more severe than just feudal or secular issues. Some of the analogies or comparisons in the article, may be heavy but they all point to one conclusion and that is when killers and assassins are determined, security is not much of an obstacle.
“Musharraf as army chief of staff, one of the instigators of the Kargil ``mini-war`` of May 1999 and beneficiary of the military takeover in October of that year did more arguably than any other man to set Pakistan on the road to extremism and fanaticism. Since 9/11 he has appeared to try, at least fitfully, to reverse direction from that dire precipice. But unlike Czar Alexander, he must survive the wrath of the fanatics first. It will not be easy. “ -Martin Sieff

Should we write off Musharaf already in the face of determination shown by extremists in response to OBL and Al-zawarihi’s fatwas?

re:#266 by veeresh
Veereshji,
I agree with you. If Bihar has elected Lalloo Yadav today, someday it will elect better leaders. I personally prefer Lalloo to Modi. Former is an A$$HOLE but latter is a scumbag.
As long as there is a system in place, things evolve. India has evolved from a socialistic democracy to a more capitalistic free market economy today. But states like Bihar have not jumped on the bandwagon yet and need more time.
Problem with Pak is that Army in that country has not let any system thrive and evolve.
Sridhar

re:#258 by mohar11
Just at a time when Mushy seems to have learnt some importrant lessons in history and politics and seems to be in a mood for reconciliation (with a lot of prodding from USA), it is likely he will be overthrown/killed. Result: another military dictator who will undo everything that Mushy has done. India will have to start all over again.
If Mushy does survive and goes on to make a deal with ABV, the question is: will this deal be accepted by Pak Generals who have all been led to believe from infancy that Kashmir is their`s for the taking. HOw about the Pak public (which should count at some point of time even though in a dictatorial system there is no accuntability)? Will the public accept such a compromise?
There are no clear answers to what is going to unfold in Pak in near future. How Mushy tackles the situation and survives determines what Pak will be like in years to come.
Sridhar

Re : HisExcellency # 261
“For some odd reason, Pakistani economy always performs better under military rule.”

That’s a simple one. For economic growth you need stability. The elected dictators as you call them are show the door by the army after a short time. So its not entirely unfair to blame the Pakistani army for Pakistan’s problems.

Regards,

Faruk

how bizare.....pleople jump and jive, but the clowns have stuck around ............how bizare..


``The BBC`s Zaffar Abbas says it is yet another bizarre event in Pakistan`s chequered political history - a military ruler seeking acceptance as constitutional head of the state, not through elections but through votes of confidence. ``

Ringmaster step out
Says the elephants left town
People jump and jive
But the clowns have stuck around

Ooh baby, (ooh baby)
It`s making me crazy, (it`s making me crazy)
Everytime I look around
Look around
Everytime I look around
Everytime I look around
Everytime I look around
It`s in my face

.......... how bizare .......... how bizare

Ras #168 you write ``Tahmed420 are reassuring readers here that things could not
be in better hands. ``

I never said that.

Here is your new year`s resolution (repeat after me):

I, Ras Siddiqui, hereby resolve on the happy occassion of this new year`s day, to make sure that I do not ever again misrepresent anyone`s views on chowk. In persuance of this goal, I resolve to cut and paste what someone said, thereby ensuring that I am commenting on what that poster actually wrote, rather than commenting (as I did in my post #268) on what I thought he was saying.

hamidm: I hope so too. God bless pakistan. And india too. And the US. and all other parts of this lonely planet.

and a happy new year to you and yours as well.

subedar: thanks for the clarification. no doubt we pakistanis have much to learn from india. certainly our generals need to learn a lot about humility from them - i pray that current political trends in pakistan will result in generals being put in their place as servants of the pakistani people, not their landlords and big bosses.

``I think that the Pakistani chattering classes yearn for democracy but are not willing to pay the price for it; so they keep bringing in the army and civilian govt. in turn - bringing in army when they are fed up with the inefficient and corrupt democracy and bringing in the civilians when they the army has been in the saddle for some time``(DOST MITTER)


Between the Army Party and the Civilian Party -- if this is not Democracy then what is it...:-)

HE#261:
All these shenanigans are common in Indian politics as well. The inumerable `Janata` parties in India, including Mulayam, Laloo, Sharad Yadavs` parties as well as Fernandez`s Samta party are all splinter groups from the Janata party based on individual leaders who either split or dismiseed from their party. Same for the many Akali dals. The mother of all splits came when Indira Gandhi split the Congress in 1967 because she could not get along with the majority of the party executive and created her own Congress (Indira); since then there have been several national and regional Congress parties. The BJP has a somewhat stronger organization but it too is not free from dismissals/exits, prominent leaders like Vaghela and Kalyan Singh were removed from the party for allegedly insulting their leaders.
Democracy in a third world country, especially, is a messy process of evolution. It is not my case that military rulers have been bad for Pakistan; one could argue that Musharraf is the best Pakistani ruler since ....er, Ayub. But the army cannot be absolved of not letting democracy take root in Pakistan. As India`s experience shows, democracy can be chaotic, cumbersome, slow and inefficient. I think that the Pakistani chattering classes yearn for democracy but are not willing to pay the price for it; so they keep bringing in the army and civilian govt. in turn - bringing in army when they are fed up with the inefficient and corrupt democracy and bringing in the civilians when they the army has been in the saddle for some time.

tahmed,

......... i hope you are right ......... happy new year

Re: #253 hamidm2

hamidm,

UNFORTUNATELY you are very right. What is Pakistan`s future going

to look like? Romair and Tahmed420 are reassuring readers here that things could not

be in better hands. We can only wish that they are right while we know that they are not.

Let us wish Pakistan luck in 2004, but just in case keep that Merlot handy.

These ``horrible hindus`` already are breaking out the scotch and celebrating victory.

It would be fine and I would join them except that their ego`s have been clouding their

judgment recently on CHOWK.

Musharraf has made a bad call by aligning himself with the MMA to secure super power

via the 17th amendment. He should have turned to the PPP and PML for support.

And while the poor or Pakistan are busy getting bags of flour from the Jamaatis,

Romair fails to mention that they still vote mostly for the PPP.

hamidm2: All the best for 2004 and keep up the good work on CHOWK!

Ras

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``...the people of Pakistan can hardly tell the difference between a military government and an ``elected`` government``

This is a lie / propoganda circulated by the boot lickers!! Do not mock the wisdom of the ordinary people of Pakistan!