Seducing The Devil

The Pakistan Muslim League died with the death of Jinnah. Today it is just a number of small factions that use the name and the army tries to prop it up as a political party time and again.

If one were to look at what the two major political parties stand for, we would not be able to differentiate between the politics of the PPP and the PML. The PPP of the seventies had socialist leanings and was a totally different animal compared to the PPP of today.

The two major parties would not have gained much by aligning themselves with the army leadership, while the MMA result was probably due to support from the government.

PS : Will like to discuss this Hyderabad Junagadh and Kashmir once and for all ... and who are these others ... I have Hodson`s book again.. and I really don`t understand what you keep going on about.

Will like to discuss this finally once and for all.

Harimau,

I find it sad that nothing but abject surrender and complete denial of my own self and views will satisfy you. Believe me you are not going to get that satisfaction.

I am well aware of the book you are talking about, and I find it amazing that you choose to deduce what you seem to be deducing. You are welcome ofcourse to your own interpretations. Alan Campbell Johnson also exhibits grudging admiration for Jinnah... and the bias is also very apparent. In any event I read an interview where he likedned Jinnah to De gaulle not that I think De Gaulle was all that. While every man has faults, I find nothing in any book I have come across so far to re evaluate my position radically. Perhaps you Indians really did need to re evaluate Gandhi and the politics of partition... so I congratulate you on that... that is probably why on average one book comes out annually on the life and times of Mohammed Ali Jinnah from the renowned scholars of your country. The youth of India is more worldy wise, and if the stupid armymen in Pakistan don`t sabotage peace efforts Pakistan and India need not be enemies.

As for Cabinet Mission plan ... I refer you to the American Ambassador`s reports to the state department (1946) in which he clearly takes the line of argument that Ayesha Jalal has taken. It can be verified in Dennis Kux`s book `United States and Pakistan; Disenchanted Allies`. I suppose one can read into or oppose according one`s bias. I quote the American Ambassador because you seem to hold the gori chamri`s view of the time to infallible. For other gori chamri views... read Beverley Nichols` `Verdict on India`... that too is a very British view don`t you think? Waisay I suggest you read KK Aziz`s `Britain and Muslim India`.

Thank you for your wishes on my marriage... as for saarc... lets not dream pipe dreams. Saarc is nothing but utter stupidity.

-YLH

1985 all over again. The PPP & MRD boycott Zia-ul-Haq`s partyless polls and leave the field to Jamat-e-Islami, MQM and assorted Zia Lackeys.

Ref Yasser # 35

Well, finally I got my hands on ``Mission With Mountbatten`` by Alan Campbell-Johnson, a book that was rather difficult to find. It is interesting to read the British perspective on Jinnah.

It is written as a day-by-day account from Mountbatten`s arrival to his departure, presumably from the daily diary maintained by the author.

There is nothing to suggest that Jinnah was trying to save the Cabinet Mission Plan as claimed by Ayesha Jalal. Campbell-Johnson confirms everything written by others, including the history of events in Junagadh, Kashmir and Hyderabad.... meaning the history you hear in Pakistan is sheer propaganda.

I will give you another few years and you will go through a re-appraisal of Jinnah that Mahatma Gandhi himself has undergone at the hands of Indians. Maybe you will even change your opinion at that time.

As a wise marketing man once said, ``Don`t believe your own sh!t doesn`t stink!``

Regards. Happy New Year. And a wonderful start to a happy married life! And let us hope something comes out of the SAARC meeting that sets our two countries on a path of reconciliation, friendship and peace.

I find it sad that some of our Indian friends occasionally get bouts of a disease which compels them to needlessly and without any logic, rhyme or reason slander the founder of Pakistan, Mr Jinnah. Previously I thought the only way to counter this was to hit back at their antecedents, but I soon realized that it was not the way of the great man in whose name I was acting so passionately.

For those of you who are concerned... martial law was a cruel joke for Jinnah`s legacy ... during that eventful first year , a group of Pakistan Army officers had gone to Jinnah and complained against the government`s policy of giving command to British officers ... Jinnah was very stern with them and had told them that in Pakistan civilian authority was supreme and if they felt otherwise they should leave Pakistan. Among those in attendance was a young Ayub Khan.

The Army never wanted partition, and from the beginning it was hostile to Pakistan`s civil authority but it was also in awe of Jinnah`s towering stature and popularity. It didn`t dare speak up against the man but it also learnt a valuable lesson not to allow popular politicians get too strong... hence one lost a rigged election, was hanged, one was called corrupt and her husband was put in jail and one lives in exile in Saudi Arabia..

-YLH

Ilmoon buss kreen O yaar. tr: shut-up you anglicised educated-ones . Your histrionics will soon be history. Time to lock; stay in--or lock; and leave.
Uncle Sam is respected only by the westernised khakis or suits.

The `masses` are no more servile.


harimou:24

I wouldn`t be surprised to learn that Pakistan was hijacked by its Army on Aug 15, 1947. In fact, I suspect that is the case. Jinnah, for all his talk of ``I will give the orders and my Prime Minister will obey me`` bravado was probably a prisoner of the Pakistan Army till he died.

Very astute observation indeed.

Never occured before, but I believe this continuation of the love-fest by CHERRY-BLOSSOMs (tan, brown, and blacks) with their former masters is represented by the low-class anglicised west-loving `elites`. These are the ones holding the masses for ransom, trying to ``moderatise`` islam (trans: must have fun & fcuk publicly, and be applauded & greeted with respect for it --the height of achievement & progress)

Cherry blossom: a trade-name for boot-polish. good for shining & licking boots.. khaki-types are phDs in BOOTLICKING in Pakistan. Most Khakis are from an area which, instead of feeling shame & guilt, takes pride in ALWAYS, indiscriminately, being on the masters side.

Thanks for providing this angle to the actions of the naa-paak class in Pakistan.

re: SameerJB # 32

Interesting conclusions.

re: hossp # 28

MQM`s power base is in urban Karachi and the vacuum it is occupying is in Karachi. Had the PPP made the deal with the army, MQM would not have ended up with the governship of Sindh.

Ciao

A very thought provoking logic presented in the following article.

Unelected Presidency ‘Constitutional’?

DR FAROOQ HASSAN

On the advent of the New Year, 2004, Pervez Musharraf, went through the apparent “juridical” exercise of having the five Elected Assemblies of the Federation and the constituent Provinces repose “confidence in him to remain as President” until 2007. He had on the previous date, December 31, 2003 signed into effect the 17th Amendment to the Constitution.

It is trite knowledge that he wasted a year of the nation’s precious time and immense resources of the republic to gain a tailor-made document through which he could feign, howsoever feebly, that he was the President of the Republic when dealing with the world community. The timing of this move was blatantly linked especially keeping in mind the SAARC conference in Islamabad between the 4th to the 6th January 2004.

There cannot be any gainsaying the simple fact that Musharraf manifestly manipulates the entire operation for his own benefit. However, in the process there has occurred the continued misuse of the funds and resources of the State. A few comments from a political and constitutional perspective may be appropriate at this stage.

First and foremost, it is borne out by facts and the Supreme Court Case against the Referendum which I argued in which it was clearly held that not only (1) the Referendum through which “Presidency” is initially claimed lacked all constitutional validity and only rested on the military based edict displacing the Constitution of October 12, 1999, the matter had to (2) be decided by the appropriate forum. Only a naively foolish interpretation of the known constitutional jurisprudence doctrines would deny that the Presidents of Republics are “elected” by the “people” of the country and not be “fictions’ or “deeming clauses” or by “purported indirect approval of Courts”.

There has never been any election to the Office of the President of Pakistan since December 1997. As such there is no doubt that factually no election has been ever held in which Musharraf got elected to any office, let alone that of the President. No election has factually occurred to give even the feigned appearance of any contest.

Whether it is the Referendum or the purported vote of confidence or a judgment of any court, no one ever contested any such electoral prize. As such no amount of belaboured sophistry can hide the fact that Musharraf remains today, as he was when he unlawfully took office of the Chief Executive in October 1999, a military usurper who has imposed personalized dictatorship through legal instrumentalities based on medieval legal conceptions. If tomorrow’s historian asks who did Mushaaraf beat in his bid for Presidency of Pakistan, the answer is “Nobody” except perhaps for the helpless Constitution and the impoverished people of Pakistan.

That this manoeuvre is also patently undemocratic can hardly be disputed by any sane or reasonable interpretation. If now, for example, the Commonwealth still does not accept Pakistan’s credentials for being a “democracy” it would be entirely because of this regrettable personalized ambition of a single person. It is nevertheless quite humorous when one sees repeated comments such as “now Pakistan has gained complete democracy” of both Musharraf and Prime Minister Jamali of the last week of December on the approval of the MMA and the Government accord on the 17th Amendment, since that is exactly what they were loudly proclaiming since the last thirteen months!

As the Voting of Confidence of 1st January 2004 and through it Musahharf’s presidency may well be challenged before courts, I do not want to analyze this point in much depth. But two points need a comment as they are of a general nature. First the Confidence Vote is ex post facto ratification of an already “elected” office holder.

Since Musharraf never contested any election, it is impossible to legally contend that his vote affirms anything legally tenable as such. Secondly, under the Parliamentary system, which even Parliament cannot change under existing pronouncements of the Pakistani Supreme Court, the President does not require any such modality for being accorded his Constitutional position. No amount of legal jugglery can give this fake colouring of pretense of validity through this process to a Presidential office bearer. As such this “vote of Confidence” is utterly useless in a constitutional sense.

But equally important is the political message of this vote. Out of the total vote cast in the Federal Parliament, Musharraf only obtained 56 percent of the vote suggesting that his alleged landslide showing during the Referendum was entirely farcical and false. Secondly, he lost the majority vote in both the Frontier and Baluchistan Provinces.

He therefore does not represent the Unity or the Symbol of the Federation, which is a constitutional requirement under Article 41 of the Constitution. In the Federal Assembly he barely got the needed majority by gaining 191 voted which is one less than obtained by Prime Mister Jamali at the time of his confidence vote.

Overall by proportionate calculations the formula of which is contained in the Second Schedule of the Constitution Musharraf only got 53.28 percent of the vote. So with all the arm-twisting, bribery and straight forward duress that the Pakistani governments are infamous for historically for the self perpetuation of an incumbent administration or office holder, Musharraf showing is terrible and embarrassing for him.

As such I have little doubt that the constitutional dressings that Musharraf is desperately giving his Presidency lacks all foundations of political propriety and constitutionalism.

The recent damaging accounts of Musharraf’s alleged “triumph” in continuing in office in New York Times and Washington Post are thus indicative that despite what is being maintained by Musharraf, no one really believes that he has what it takes to continue to be useful to Washington. This should really worry Musharraf more than his lack of political base in Pakistan since he has evidently come to believe that only Washington can keep him in office as President and not the people of Pakistan.

There is thus little substance in Musharaf claiming to be a ‘constitutional” President. I therefore hope for the good of the people of Pakistan that when this matter is raised in a contested litigation, the courts would do what the traditions of genuine democracy would wish for.

Lastly a word of reality about Pakistani power dynamics in the context of Subcontinental politico. Whatever may be said about India, it cannot be denied that it has elected a Muslim intellectual to be the Republic’s President.

On the other hand though we accept the nicest accolades for Musharraf’s abilities and achievements, we should be still quite embarrassed that Pakistan, arguably the most important Islamic nation, has, thanks to Musharraf, a non-elected military chief of army staff as the country’s President!

Therein lies the biggest difference between these two nuclear status rivals. Believe me, no one misses this point when the relative merits of the systems and policies of the two countries are examined by nations abroad.

It is not a good idea to provide/engage/assign etc. military personnel to civilian duties. There are two ways that this is done. The first is when the govt. assigns military personnel on assignments, which the military personnel do not really want. The second is when the military personnel use the military to get civilian assignments, after retirement.

The first should be avoided because it corrupts the military. And I know of very few soldiers of junior ranks, who actually want to do these assignments. Captains don`t want to work in Wapda, nor do Flt. Lts. want to administer polling booths or assist the police in tracking down MQM, also. Or track down ghost schools, as ordered by Shahbaz Sharif.

It is, however, the second kind of assignments, which create the real problems, and ill-will between the civilians and the military. These are created to look after the military officers, even after they retire. These are generally availed by senior officers, generally Col and above. And they are all carried out at the expense of civilians.

These include the following:

- Placements into the military`s civilian businesses, like Fauji Foundation, Shaheen Foundations, etc.
- Direct placement, straight into Civil Services positions like Foreign Ministry, etc.
- Placement into PIA as administrators and pilots, etc. (and even CEO) at a senior age, without having to apply as a civilian and compete against 25 year old pilots
- Placements into other organizations like highway authorities etc.

These are all lucrative and coveted positions and many individuals greatly benefit from them. In fact they make far more money in these positions than they ever did in the military.

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Ref nazarhayatkhan #23

[SAFTA

After wasting 4 years of the country, following Agra, Musharraf has made another U-turn namely CBMs - and even beyond SAFTA. And have called single currency & economic union as good ideas!]

I don`t understand why we have to wait till Jan 2006 for SAFTA.

My feeling is that India should unilaterally lift all barriers to imports from Pakistan; it can be for select items in which Pakistan has some advantage and it can even be timebound so that Pakistan has to respond within that timeframe to lift trade barriers against Indian goods. Simultaneously, Indian markets should be thrown open to ALL goods manufactured in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Burma unilaterally. Prove to these countries -- and drive home the point to Pakistan -- that trade with India can be beneficial to them and that the billion-strong market of India is the growth engine for South Asia.

$5 - $10 billion in unfavorable trade balance for India, if it ever comes to that, will be more than offset by joint ventures in South Asia that will start proliferating when customs barriers come crashing down.

Yusuf Khan will be retiring in September and Musharraf is not likely to quit COAS position by then. The chance of recently promoted Lt. Gen are brighter for COAS position than Yusuf Khan...Somebody named Siddiqui or Syed?

Musharraf is a liar and a cheater, so possibly he can refuse to follow up verbal committment with MMA, he can create another post in the military above COAS for himself or promote himself to Field Marshal and so on..

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Mr. Khan your off-handed assertion that the MQM is busy occupying the space left open by the PPP begs some more elaboration.

“This suggests that MQM has smelled the weakness of PML-N and PPP and is adroitly maneuvering itself to occupy the political space left by these two parties”- Khan

The MQM, the PPP and the PML (N) are three different kinds of parties. The PPP has it support in the rural areas of Punjab and Sindh and PML (N) has support in urban areas of Punjab.
The PPP support in the rural areas has resulted in lots of Zamindar/Feudal in both Sindh and Punjab still hanging out with the party though their real interests lay with the PML (Q) types. The MQM practically has nothing to offer to the rural voters in Pakistan let alone the urban voters in Punjab.
If you think that MQM’s alliance with a group of Sindhi nationalist, would allow it to attract some influence in rural Sindh, then sir that is a huge fallacy in your analysis.
The nationalists in Sindh do provide intellectual leadership; still have failed to translate that into political support. Most of the nationalists in Sindh are Sindhi urbanites and even they are not in tune with Sindhi peasants. How the MQM can piggyback with nationalist to take up the ‘space’ in Sindh, must make an interesting and thought provoking analysis.
It must be an MQM project, which will mature in another 100 years from now. To credit MQM for sponsoring such a long-term project, I must say that Rome was not built in one day either!

If you look at the situation in Punjab, the MQM has no presence at all, nor does it offer any thing to people of Punjab. How will the MQM occupy the space(?) in Punjab, must be a pipe dream that only MQM types can conjure up.

If the MQM had not supported the Army last year, it would have become part of the history very quickly.
True the MQM has loyal following in urban areas in Sindh right now. Nevertheless, it has no succession plan or a long-term plan that can keep it propelled politically in the end.

SAFTA

After wasting 4 years of the country, following Agra, Musharraf has made another U-turn namely CBMs - and even beyond SAFTA. And have called single currency & economic union as good ideas!

Why we need to be consistantly compelled to make U-turns by the force of circumstances - The Military mindset is incapable of looking 40-50 years into the future?

When the BB & NS were aiming for the same moves years back, the military pronounced them traitors!

Ref Ras #15

[I have little against Mush personally and ...... he deserves a chance to rectify the mess that the Khakis, the US and the Saudis have created in my country of origin.]

The Saudis and the US are latecomers to the game.

Jinnah threatened to abandon all support for a constitutional partition of India if the British Indian Army wasn`t divided and he didn`t have a Pakistan Army at his command on Aug 15, 1947.

I wouldn`t be surprised to learn that Pakistan was hijacked by its Army on Aug 15, 1947. In fact, I suspect that is the case. Jinnah, for all his talk of ``I will give the orders and my Prime Minister will obey me`` bravado was probably a prisoner of the Pakistan Army till he died.

Ref nazarhayatkhan #16

I don`t think that you need to set clueless idiots like Ali_1 straight on PIA recruitmeent policies.

He makes his assumptions and proceeds to draw conclusions to his liking from them.

WAPDA, Railway and Steel Mill have proved that Armed Force personals have proved better Administrators. The civilians in these posts were corrupt and inefficient. But why our civil officers and executives are not so honest and disciplined?

Musharraf is in power because of Nawaz Sharif fascism. The Army may be always trying to `come back to power` but they can be kept in their shoes if we have honest and competent civil leadership.

The game of one political party losing and other winning is an on-going process. The PPP and PML(N) have to wait for their turn.

MQM is a racial and lingual party and will always be winning from Urban Sindh and in power as long they can fool their voters and Generals that `oratory of Altaf Bhai` is only to spread hatred and keep intact the vote bank. Otherwise `man` does not mean what he says.

There is a lot of similarities between MMA and MMQ. Both will be limited to a certian geographical area. If MMQ has a `anti-Punjab/Army` slogan the MMA will win on `Anti-US/American Agents` slogan, but both will compromise and will make deals with the same after winning. One is racial, the other is so-called religious. Both don`t have any broad-based political agenda.

The Army will be always `in-charge` as long we have leaders like Shujjats, Sharifs, Altafs and Benazirs. We should `cultivate` statesmen not `politicians hungry for power`. Otherwise, Army has `the real power` and will always fill the `vaccum`.

yusuf khan, zindabad!


......... democracy or shamocracy, it doesn`t really matter ..........the mma, mqm, ppp, pppp, pml (a-z) and musharraf are all irrelevant ................... what matters is what Gen Muhammad Yusuf Khan will do ..........

re: Mantolives

Sorry, there was an accounting error on my part. Pakistan is 33 years old and not 23 as specified. My mistake, but the rest holds true

Ciao

re: haroonellahi # 1

There is no subsitute for democracy.

re: hossp # 11

You are right. MMA and MQM will contest each over Sindh, but presently MQM is busy occupying the space left open by PPP.

MMA was elected on the slogan of sharia and one of the caveats of the deal seventeenth amendment deal, was that MMA will not table any bill related to sharia and its implementation in Pakistan. This is bound to create a backlash in the voter constitutency of MMA.

re: Mantolives # 7

Agreed.

A consitutional framework is needed, but Pakistani politics` experience has been through working extra-constutionally and via extra-constitutional means. The 1973 constitution was suspended in 1977, some four years after it came into force in 1973. From 1979 to 1988, it was inoperable and during the period from 1988 to 1999, it was often ignored. Then in 1999 it was suspended again and in 2002, despite all the pretenses, it has not been fully revived.

The constitutions of 1956 and 1960 do not count, because they were meant for a unified Pakistan and those legal documents ceased to exist the day Pakistan fractured into two nation states. On December 16, 1971. The post-December 1971 Pakistan was a new nation and not the nation of Jinnah`s creation and that nation created the 1973 constitution as its first, and hopefully, only constitution. The point is that Pakistan as it exists today, was created on December 16, 1971 and not on August 14, 1947 as wrongly taught in Pakistani history books.

When I suggested that Pakistan is an adminstrative state, the implication was of Pakistan, which existed after December 16, 1971 and not before it. In that sense, Pakistan is only 23 years old and not 56 years old, as claimed. Out of those 23 years, it has been under military rule nearly 15 years (1979-88 and 1999 to present) and the remaining under civilian rule from 1988 to 1999. Within this period, you also have to account for the dismissal of governments and the time period, when Pakistan existed under presidental rule without a civilian government. Remember, from 1971 to 1973, Pakistan was ruled by Z. A. Bhutto as a civilian chief martial law administrator for two years, which brings the years of military rule in Pakistan to 17.

Hence, the argument; Pakistan is an adminstrative run by the fiat of ordinances.

Ciao

Manto:
Welcome back to chowk and to the club of `grasthis`:-)

Am I the only confused one or the only one who sees things clearly?
The way I see it, Musharraf is as much an army dictator today as he was on the day those faujis climbed up the gates in Islamabad, notwithstanding the LFO, the 97% referendum, the manipulated elections and now, the confidence vote. All these are relevant only as long as Musharraf lasts; whenever a truly elected govt. emerges, it is likely to overturn everything done by Musharraf and may even try him for his unconstitutional overthrow of the duly elected government.

F.R. Khan,
I can only say that to a distant observer the PPP and PML(N) position

on the boycott of the 17th amendment is very logical. In that regard IF Musharraf

fails to deliver the goods, Pakistan has a fall back position. So wish him luck and don`t

be too critical (leave that to Romair) of people who have more of a legal foundation to

stand on.

And speaking of Romair from the temporal board below....

#304 by Romair on January 2, 2004 0:25am PT
Ras #268: ``Romair and Tahmed420 are reassuring readers here that things could not
be in better hands.``

How about asking me first, before misquoting me? :-)

I have never said things could not be in better hands. All I have said is that things could be much worse, and they seem to be settling down, more than they were before.

There is a huge difference, between what I stated and your misquotation of it.

``Romair fails to mention that they still vote mostly for the PPP.``

Spoken like a true PPPliya. I admire your loyalty, though I disagree with your logic.
If we use most votes as a rule, then Musharraf won the most votes to become the Presidents yesterday. This does not make the votes legitimate. The votes were cast under an umbrella of force. Hence he still remains a dictator, if you ask me (albiet a more honest and progressive one than other dicatators like BB and NS).``

My response...

Romair, most of the long list of remarks that you have presented could also be stuck on

the Khakis as well (they do retire don`t they?).

You do not need to talk about misquoting either because we are all quite familiar with

your thinking by now. You are the Volumetic Opinion Champion on CHOWK.

For the rest of us who do not have that kind of time let us agree to disagree and move on.


The PPP is currently the only real alternative for Pakistan if Musharraf cannot deliver.

The Khakis occupation of the presidency currently has Washington`s blessing very much

like the old Zia Regime which is mostly responsible for Pakistan`s current mess.

We are fortunate that Mush does not think like Zia and that Washington seems to be in

``Damage Control`` mode in Pakistan AT THE MOMENT.

Pakistanis are walking on eggshells, a sight that many of our indian friends on CHOWK

continue to enjoy.

I have little against Mush personally and as long as he does not assasinate any leaders

that have been elected by non-military methods in Pakistan, he deserves a chance to

rectify the mess that the Khakis, the US and the Saudis have created in my country of

origin.

We will wait and see....

Ali_1 # 7

(does this include the Khakis who have usurped civilian jobs that they don`t deserve... For example, generals running WAPDA and Steel Mills and PAF pilots flying for PIA now?)

There is a clear differentiation here. The duputationists (people thrust into departments) are not welcome. The retired Khakis who go through the normal selection process after applying through an add in the newspapers fall in the normal acceptable category.

A retired General is most welcome to become a President provided he runs normally in a normal election.

(All PAF pilots, who joined PIA, went through the normal applications, tests/examinations process - and were placed junior most in accordance with AirLine seniority. Airlines all over the world take Air Force pilots - some like Turkey, Singapore, Israel etc take only Air Force pilots. In fact PIA pilots Association, of which I am a member, has to be given credit for preventing Air Force pilots steamrolling into PIA without any selection & merit. Presidents like Ghulam Ishaq tried to get his ADC into PIA through back door - he failed!)

Interesting interview of Stephen Cohen on CSPAN December 31, 2003 at:

http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=205&Rot_WD=

Hope that many Pakistanis listen to it.

Ras

Failure, more than politics,

Pakistan is supposed to have a beurocrcy, modelled or rather left behind by the british. This according to all from pakistan comprises professionals in the various ministries, offering considered views of everything.

Now look at recent pak response to indian offers. They wanted to give medical support for rape victims in india, they wanted the kashmiris to have un documents, they wanted india to signa special deal not to cancell overflights with out consultations.

Suddenly all these are gone, there is cease fire to cap it off. The foolf of the pak administration who offered all of the above advice continue to be thre. It is unlikely that mushy dreamed up all of the earlier reddiculuas ideas, it should have come from the pak elites, the ilks of tahmed and romair.
The new one should have come from the FBI and the US agents with gun to the head of mushy. No point in asking, no pakistani will dare to explain the process.

The above example at the highest policy level is a symtom of the deep rooted malice of the pak society, they can think only in terms of hatred, the TNt effect, and some one else has to faorce the change, good that FBI are arpound and the US troops in 6 bases in pakistan.

in search of respectability,

This article by ferzok is another example of pakistanis insatiable attempts to introduce a symbol of respectability of what is happening in pakistan. All of what is written is pure crap, there can be no rhyme or reason in logical terms of what is happening in pakistan, it has to be understood purely in religious and emotional terms, the actions of section of humanity fed on hatred.
Look at the highest level pak govt policy propasals in the last few weeks. Evry one of them were rediculus and changed, eroding any kind of respectability to the pak government, their beurocrats. Pakistanis lack the basic ability to think through anything rationall simply because of the hatred infused education system. One can cleary see that on chowk, tahmed and romair as clear examples of warped thinking.

F.R. Khan’s analysis is pretty much on the mark when he scolds the PPP and the Nawaz group for boycotting the voting on both measures. I would like to point out that both the PPP and the Nawaz group actually gave a tacit support to both unconstitutional measures. If they were against those amendments, they should have voted against them in the assembly. By not voting, they have proved once again that they are as willing to work with the Army as the MMA.
By abstaining, both the PPP and the Nawaz group have left the options open to support the Army in future.
The feudal characters in the PPP and in the Nawaz league are not very far from the PML (Q) in their political ideology. It is matter of time before we will see the membership of the patriot group swell. It seems to me that by putting Javed Hashmi in jail, the army also obtained quiet approval of rest of the Nawaz group in the national assembly.

It’s hard for me understand Mr. Khan`s logic behind “…that MQM has smelled the weakness of PML-N and PPP and is adroitly maneuvering itself to occupy the political space left by these two parties and as a possible leverage to MMA.”

On the contrary, I think the next move the MMA would make would be to ease out MQM from Sindh govt. MQM arguably has no leverage at all, if the MMA is willing to support the govt. in the National assembly and the senate.
There is a history of hate-hate relationship between the Army and the MQM. The Army, reluctantly accepted MQM as a political collaborator, in the first place, when the Army could not find political support from the MMA after the elections last year. With political support now forthcoming from the MMA, MQM holding its own against its sworn enemies in the MMA does not look viable.

“As to MMA, it has lost all sense of legitimacy and will soon face a backlash of its votaries.” – F.R.Khan

No accurate at all!!! MMA voters had no interest whatsoever with LFO or the constitutional changes. So the question of any backlash does not arise. The MMA was not part of the ARD so it only had an ambiguous stand against the LFO during the elections. Pretty much all the parties in the MMA have always had excellent relations with the Army and it was a matter of time for them to go back to where they are comfortable.

Only PPP and PML(N( have proven to be mature political parties in current situation. It was a mistake by PPP to negotiate Musharraf soon after farcical elections. Late Nawabzada Nasrullah Khan rightly played his hand right as president of ARD to pull PPP back into principled democratic party. As hamidm said, there was nothing in it for PPP, PML (N( or democracy to bend according to the wishes of Musharraf and stamp some sort of semi-legitimacy to clearly illegitimacy that began with treason according to the costitution.

MMA, Military Mullah Alliance was always `B` team for Musharraf. Their strength in assemblies owe it to manipulation and engineering of agencies on Musharraf behalf. Out of MMA components, JI being more matured was most reluctant to negotiate with military thug. Moreover half of their members owe victories to the backing of Nawaz League in Lahore.

On long term basis, it is better to see parting of PML (N) and Islamists (at least I always wished it) in addition to coming of MMA in open as pro-giovernment and not an opposition party. They played their role right as `B` team of ruling junta whereas PML (N) and PPP played right as opposition.

The ground reality remains unchanged and would have remained unchanged despite this face lift of 17th amendment. The legitimacy can not be gained on the basis of reconstitutiing Supreme Court of Pakistan through PCO, removing President of Pakistan unilaterally and unconstitutionally, carrying out illegal and unconstitutional refrendum, facade of engineered elections for assemblies and staying aloof and disdainful of whole elected bodies by ignoring and on the record insulting it. Lastly never facing opposition in election until today, be it referendum or vote of confidence, his was the sole name on the ballot.

In my opinion, by supporting Musharraf both MMA and MQM has made stupid political errors and making the door open for both PPP and PML (N) for anti-military and shia mohajir vote of Karachi and Sindh.

#3 Nazar Hayat Khan

[``It is time that politicians agreed on at least on ONE ISSUE - not to tolerate the Khakis. ``]

Nazar, does this include the Khakis who have usurped civilian jobs that they don`t deserve... For example, generals running WAPDA and Steel Mills and PAF pilots flying for PIA now?

romair! ......... where do you come up with these cerebral gems:

``However, now it occupies the prominent role in the opposition and in the govt. `` ...

....uh ?????............ this might make sense for the mma because in their vision there is no such thing as an opposition - god does not tolerate any such nonsense .......... but most ordinary people (civilians) would agree that you can`t be in the government and in the opposition at the same time ............

............ waiting with bated breath for the next profundity from your flatulence ..........

nhk,

``It is time that politicians agreed on at least on ONE ISSUE - not to tolerate the Khakis``

hear hear! Army needs to go!


ferozk

The issue is not as much of democracy, which is, you will agree, an abstract term. Pakistan might be an `administrative` state, but for any state to function there should be some legality , some constitutional basis. Army`s presence in the halls of political power tells us that the highest law has been violated... forget what it does for democracy... think the repercussions in law and order ...

This is precisely why the entire proceeding on the vote of confidence is a lie and farce.


-YLH

MMA has played its cards well.

Politics is the art of the possible. Not the dreams of the impossible. MMA had a smaller percentage of seats, yet ended up dominating the opposition. Both the PML(N) and PPPP were dancing to the tunes of MMA, and Fazl would have been the leader of the opposition, even though PPP had more votes.

The govt. put pressure on the MMA, through the disqualification act of degrees, and the MMA seeing the situation, decided to work with the govt. Interestingly, it has not voted for Musharraf. It has infact, abstained from the voting. And it still sits in the opposition.

However, now it occupies the prominent role in the opposition and in the govt.

PML has done well also. Since nearly the whole party is now called PML(Q). Only a little bit is left in PML(N). So PML(Q) is the real PML now. It is running the country.

The one party that has sidelined itself politically, is PPPP. This is not due to any political stand based on principal. It is due to giving the desires of its top leader (BB) more important than the future of the party. Had all the charges been dropped against BB, PPPP would have jumped on the bandwagon with the govt. However, sincce that was not done, BB disallowed her party to work with the govt. and form the govt. She is not even allowing a new leadership to emerge in the party, lest her own influence be reduced. That is why she has appointed a weak leader like Amin Fahim to lead it. She is scared that a strong leader may empower the party, and she maybe sidelined. If she does not have her party as a leverage, she will be forced to face the music in the courts, like any other Pakistani citizen would.

MQM has a very strong and loyal base. It is the most secular party in Pakistan. And it genuinely represents the middle class of Karachi (while MMA represents the lower class of NWFP and Baluchistan). A secular MQM, even if it performs marginally well, cannot be defeated by a religious MMA. This is why MQM literally swept away Jamaat-i-Islami from Karachi. And this is why, even after screwing up Karachi, MQM still wins there.

If MQM can get out of its ethnic Muhajir leanings and actually start doing something productive, instead of gang warfare, it would be the best force in representing secularism throughout Pakistan.

There are only two electable parties in Pakistan, whose leaders resemble their voters and are from the same social strata. These are MQM and MMA. MQM leaders are very middle class - pharmacists, shopkeepers, rickshawallahs, doctors etc. As are its voters. MMA leaders are generally from the lower class - illiterate and madrassah educated farmers, mosque imams etc. As are its voters.

This is why the voting base of these two parties is so loyal and disciplined. Altaf Hussain and Qazi Hussain can clap their hands and 50,000 of their supporters will line up in the streets. And hardly any of their MNAs and MPAs ever defects from their party. Added to this, their own heads are not elitist. Altaf Hussain was a pharmacist, and cab driver(?) in USA. And Qazi Hussain was a Geography(?) teacher.

These parties, of course, have other problems. Like violence, and misguided religious policies, respectively.

However, compare them to the two mainstream parties in Pakistan, i.e. PPP and PML, and their leaderships. NS, and especially BB, have absolutely nothing common with the voter who is in their constituency. The former is (was) perhaps the richest guy in the country. And the later is one of the most powerful feudals in the country and an extremely rich woman (through corruption and land holdings).

As I stated many times before, people need to stop making fun of the MMA, and start making fun of their won party`s leaders. There used to be a time, when secularists in Pakistan would say, that if democracy is allowed, maulvis cannot win any seats. This was true uptil the last election. Before than maulvi parties won around 1 - 3% of the seats in the NA.

However, the last election changed that. Maulvis actually defeated the pro-Musharraf PML(Q) in NWFP. Now people have been forced to state that, ``PPP still got the most votes in the country.`` True. But I have a feeling, if the PPPs are not taken away from the self-centered leaderships, pretty soon people will not be able to make the above statement about the votes, either. And once the MMA-types gets a majority, it will be too late for our Secularists to carry out any introspection.

Here is to hoping a day will come when PPP will be headed by a cab driving pharmacist. And PML will be headed by a Geogrphy lecturer. That is when they will turn into truly democratic parties and will be able to take on the maulvi brigade (and the Army for that matter). Till then, if you ask me, the best hope, in the long run, for Pakistani secularism is an ethnically-agnostic and neutral MQM.

.......... i don`t understand fr khan`s logic of what the ppp and ard would have gained by participating in a rigged vote............why?........ anyone who votes when they know that the result is pre-determined is either an flaming idiot or a suffering fool - take your pick.............oh, but they would have proven that they are gentlemen .... so??........what would they get in return - the scorn of the goons in khaki and their bearded allies?.......... at least now they are not part of the establishment and stand a chance with the next chief of army staff - the guy who really matters ............

This is a good article, except that mentioning PML N a number of times does not make any sense. There is no such thing as PML N anymore.

As the writer has mentioned, the best deal would have been a Musharraf-PPP alliance with Makhdoom Amin Faheem as PM. Musharraf also sought that as a prefered option. However, BB could not have settled for that. From her point of view, its only her who merits the position of PM. Any other person elected to PM position would be non-democratic. PPP is BB is PM is democracy. That is the simple relationship for the House of Bhutto.

The writer has correctly forecasted the eventual demise of PPP and Muttahida taking its place in the national politics.

Khan Sahib

I tend to disagree.

You are blaming PPP, ARD and PML(N) for not supportung a Chief of Army Staff who took over.

Whereas, the politicians to be blamed are the one`s in the PML (Q) & its associates for supporting the military.

It was better to have an unconstitutional rule than to have it legalized by the politicians themselves. Army has already ruled for about 25 years - few more years would not have mattered. But then it would have been thrown out by the people. ARD`s stand is correct.

It is time that politicians agreed on at least on ONE ISSUE - not to tolerate the Khakis.

True to the simplistic approach of the military, Musharaf has already done a great harm. By keeping PPP and PML(N) out of the political process, on the pretext of corruption of a few billion Dollars (and possibly Zardari`s murder charges in Shahnawaz case), he has let a much bigger EVIL MMA get some position in the Pakistani political system.

I agree with you on the MQM. MQM has arrived - quite at ease with the Sindhis & deadly against Mullacracy.

Rest assured, PPP & PML (N) have not gone anywhere. They collectively got 70% of the cast votes in the last election. Wait till Musharraf`s uniform is off. The present dispensation is unnarural & unstable. 342 Parliamentarians are just the jokers. It is one man rule.

The MMA has in the ned taken a very pro democracy stance in this whole issue. While negotiations with the PPP stalled because of the BB-Zardari factor, solely. The MMA did what any responsible opposition party would have done it negotiated an exit strategy for the Army, as has been the practice of every civilian parliament since teh first martial law. Surprisingly the MMA accepted clauses in the LFO which reversed Zia`s Islamisation..like the joint electorate..the increase in womens seats and so on....irrespective of their political idealogy..I think they have come out of the whole story as a nationlly recognised political force..which may deliver dividends in Punjab and Sinh come next election.

Mushaarf might be a dictator and might be a `bad guy` in your eyes Mr. F.R.Khan but Pakistan has always done better when ruled by a dictatorship. Our Foreign Researves have increased drastically and our ties with America are good as well. The Economic enviroment in Pakistan has become much better. There is saying ke Nawaz shareef and Benazir Bhutto,
` Woh kuch samajata nahin tha aur woh kuch sunti nahin thi`.

PML-N and PPP have both plagued Pakistan and now their age is over. A new Pakistan is about to emerge. And why are you so in favor of Democracy? Democracy evolved in Greek City states. It greatly influenced the American and French Revolutions. My point is democracy is a Western thing, and it can not be imposed upon us.

Down with democracy! :P