My SAARC Diary

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harimau
I would recommend reading `Only Man is Vile` by William McGowan, a book about Sri Lanka. I happened to read it in the mid90s and got scared out of my wits at the eerie resemblence between Sinhala nationalism and Hindutva.

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Harimau:


``Please do provide me with a reading list. I would appreciate it very much. I would like to diversify from the history of the US, India, etc., into something else. ``

If you are not being sarcastic, I would recommend the following to start with.

``Commandant of Auschwitz : The Autobiography of Rudolf Hoess``

http://www.0ne-shop.com/books/Biographies-Memoirs/Historical/Holocaust/P-0000000a000052695453625261635458/Commandant-of-Auschwitz-The-Autobiography-of-Rudolf-Hoess/Commandant-of-Auschwitz-The-Autobiography-of-Rudolf-Hoess.php


The link goes to where you can buy the book. I have read it, and you will see how easy it is for a man to slip into something very horrendous. All it needs is a combination of self-righteousness, perception of being victimized (as many Hindutvawadis genuinely feel) and power.

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#120 by FarzanaVersey
//...how it was that a man who wanted a nationalist solution till as late as 1938, when he was 61 years of age, suddenly become a `communalist`..//

Yeah - how did it happen? How did the nationalist become a communalist?

So far - I haven`t got any satisfactory explanation . The common refrain from Jinnah-admirers is that bad obstinate hindu leaders of Congress somehow forced him become a `communalist`. But this reasoning doesn`t really go that far in giving an convincing explanation. Congress leaders were, and still are, staunch secularists and had really gone out of their way to accomdate minority concerns. None of the Congress leaders of that time was anti-muslim or anti-minority.

//...it gave a glimpse into an essentially principled man. That we may not agree with his principles is another matter. ..//

If we donot agree with his principles - then what are we admiring him for? Even Stalin had his principles but we don`t agree with those principles and hence we donot admire him. Just being a principled man means nothing unless those principles brings in results that we can agree with.

From a person who was ``not a votary of mass movements`` to a person who ordered ``Direction Action Day``, a violent mass(mob?) movement - the Jinnah`s transformation was dramatic. That was a 180 degree change of principles ..... Which ``essentially principled man`` flips his principles this way - just because he had some serious differences with his colleagues and compatriots?

Also - I never understood ``not-a-votary-of-mass-movements`` principle either. How exactly do you fight for freedom without involving the masses for whose freedom you are fighting in the first place? ...... By having tea inside an ivory tower with the same guys you are supposed to be fighting?

Such fundamental inconstistencies are in abundance in Jinnah`s life story as we know it.

rsridhar #118 What you are criticizing is not religion per se, but the exploitation of religion. And there i am with you 100%.

Here is a strategy that I wish governments would use more often rather than caving in to the demands of those who claim to represent some religion: The best defense against those who exploit religion is to examine their case from within the same framework of religion that they present it (since nearly every time their arguments are easily exposed as being contrary to the teachings of the very religion they claim to represent - as i did in my post below on the issue of the hajj subsidy).

Zafar: Welcome back.

Ref FarzanaVersey #120

[Why I admire Jinnah]

Native son of Gujarat, perhaps?

[It would be easy to say he was making political capital of the situation by using the minority issue as a shoulder from which to fire the gun, but that would an appalling generalisation.]

Is it the generalisation that is appalling or the use of the gun that is appalling?

[It would, therefore, be unfair to hold him solely responsible for 600,000 deaths and the uprooting of 14 million people.]

Well, you could add Liaqat Ali Khan Suhrawardy and the leadership of the All-India Muslim League to the list of criminals.

[Why were over a hundred million Muslims willing to eat out of his palm?]

``Islam is in danger`` and ``Pakistan ki matlab kya, La Ilahi il Allah`` seem to be very good answers to that question.

[Because Jinnah reflected their fears, even as he spoke of intermarriage to promote communal harmony. Jinnah learned, as does every other politician, that human beings are easily excitable because they are inherently prejudiced.]

I suppose communal harmony between Parsis and Muslims was so high that he felt there was no need for his daughter to marry a Parsi.

[Jinnah has been accused of being a megalomaniac, but so were most of the leaders of the time. They could not forget they were participants in an epoch-making event.]

So were Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot and a whole host of unsavory characters... megalomaniacs and participants in epoch-making events.

[If fact, in 1946 he talked of having a metaphorical pistol in a world full of AK-47s and nuclear arsenal.]

The AK-47s and the nuclear arsenal were NOT in the hands of the average Muslims and Hindus of Calcutta.

[The statement may have seem terribly outdated and stupid...]

Not at all. Just prescient. After all we now have Pakistan awash with AK-47s and also as the proud possessor of the Islamic Bomb.

[.... but it gave a glimpse into an essentially principled man. That we may not agree with his principles is another matter.]

I am reminded of a debate long ago in the British Parliament. When one parliamentarian said, ``You are likely to be hanged or die of a social disease`` the other responded, ``That depends entirely upon whether I embrace your principles or your mistress.`` Well, ZA Bhutto got hanged. We now only have to search for those with social (venereal) diseases.

RefZafarA #115

[``Not really since I haven`t read that book. More like out of that movie (The Siege?) with Bruce Willis in it. You know, the US Army kind of invades NYC in response to terrorist bombings. I was thoroughly impressed by that movie.``

...how long were these people ruled by fillum isstaaars?]

Two-and-a-half hours. We are NOT talking about the Tamil epic ``Sampoorna Ramayanam`` that ran for five and a half hours. The attention span of the average American is rather limited.

#108 by arjun_m on January 9, 2004 1:10pm PT
Ayaz Amir was the same guy with sparkle in his eyes when Mush was talking about nuking India! So , obviously he is now disappointed- he may find his the talent of talking about Paki Army and its wars with India finding no takers in the future- he would be jobless!!

Why I admire Jinnah

http://www.rediff.com/style/aug/25farz.htm
HOME | LIFE/STYLE | COLUMNISTS | ANTI-VIEW
August 25, 1997

Farzana Versey
The other side of Jinnah

The life of the man largely held responsible for the partition of the
country has a touch of tragedy to it.

Mohammed Ali Jinnah almost appears like a naive knight in shining armor,
blinded by the glitter of his position, rather than a visionary convinced
of the soundness of his stand. His major flaw lay in the fact that he was
the brash other voice while everyone else was the chorus.

It would be easy to say he was making political capital of the situation
by using the minority issue as a shoulder from which to fire the gun, but
that would an appalling generalisation.

Like many people in power who portray themselves as saviours, Jinnah was
pawn in the hands of those he promised to free from the majority clutches.
The distribution of leaflets bearing pictures of a sword-bearing,
sherwani-clad Jinnah was clearly the handwork of a marketing genius.
Jinnah, in a spirit of parody, played along, probably for a good laugh and
certainly for a pat on the back.

It would, therefore, be unfair to hold him solely responsible for 600,000
deaths and the uprooting of 14 million people.

Even without referring to his taste in Scotch and sausages, one has to
admit he was not Islamist. The concept of jihad was totally alien to him
and, as Sardar Patel said, he was not a votary of mass movements. H M
Seervai, in his book on the Partition, has raised in important issue: ``It
is a little unfortunate that those who assail Jinnah for destroying the
unity of India do not ask how it was that a man who wanted a nationalist
solution till as late as 1938, when he was 61 years of age, suddenly
become a `communalist`.``

Why were over a hundred million Muslims willing to eat out of his palm?
Because Jinnah reflected their fears, even as he spoke of intermarriage to
promote communal harmony. Jinnah learned, as does every other politician,
that human beings are easily excitable because they are inherently
prejudiced.

Jinnah has been accused of being a megalomaniac, but so were most of the
leaders of the time. They could not forget they were participants in an
epoch-making event.

If he could maintain grace under pressure, at the height of the battle, he
would have dealt with many other issues in a similar fashion. If fact, in
1946 he talked of having a metaphorical pistol in a world full of AK-47s
and nuclear arsenal. The statement may have seem terribly outdated and
stupid, but it gave a glimpse into an essentially principled man. That we
may not agree with his principles is another matter.

Zafar (#77):
[Farzana Begum]

Kya Talib saab, iss naacheez ko aapne begum ka khitaab dekar inaayat kar di…bolo tau apun ka bolee mein, uska tau khopdi ghumaa diya. Itna din kidhar ghoomgayla tha…apun socha kisne supari daal di. Lekin Sydney mein khokha nahin milta na? Iske waastey bachh gaya…waisa sab barabar hai na? Koi vaanda hoga tau bas eik fone ghoomaneka, maamla fit ho jaayega. Purana Chowkie ka waaste itna tau faraj banta hai…woh shaayar log jaisa bolta…aapka dobara istikbal kar te hai hum…baap re, aisa tau gaali lagta, yeh baal-sheel kaiku laata beech mein?

Waisa, yeh jo likha pasand aaya tau thoda ijjat badhela hai!!...iska waaste apun ka taraf se eik nautaak maar lena ;) …(Yeh saala angrej log toast kaise peeta hai? Boley tau, drink a toast… apun tau chai mein doobata tau bhi pighalta nahin poora.)

~~~F Be-gham (yaanike khushi!)
- - -

#100 by gujjubania:

[Auntyji , ( hehehe , I know you hate to be called that , particularly by a scumbag like me..) ]

Lovely to know you do recognise yourself…hehehe…and I hate to make rishtas unless I know people...

Jinnah was responsible for the genocide? The Partition was his idea alone? You must be crazy. (Am posting an earlier column again that I had written a while ago elsewhere.)

[I dont think you are a closet Pakistani spy as some would suggest. I think you are just a little silly. You are a good person though. God bless you.]

Oh, thank you. Ondannondu kaladali!
- - -
#86 by harimau:

Now you are clearly confused. Please tell me how these two statements can be taken together?

[Well, do let me know when you get to Chennai. I just bought absinthe... banned in several countries because it is actually toxic (in large doses and over a long period of time... so it is quite okay to drink one glass!)]

[{Anyway, am still waiting for my first-class returnticket and stay arrangements for Kabul…}
One way, lady. No return from the Islamic Jannat-on-earth for you! Stay arrangements? Surely you haven`t forgotten my suggestion about being in the harem of Mullah Omar! Come on, I expect better than selective memory from you!]

Just when I thought there was hope for you…you spoil it all. I will organise the return ticket, so not to worry. As re. memory, you had clearly stated that you would keep me in fine fettle if I left for Kabul and that your dollars would go a along way there…anyway, what is Mullah Omar paying you as bride price? Btw, an apology from you is in order. You have been nasty, vile, obnoxious…unless you are planning to roll up the slopes of Tirupati!

Alternatively, compulsory reading of all of Periyar’s works, and a chauffeur (Muslim, naturally!)-driven car at my service when I am in Chennai next. And the whole bottle of absinthe. My system is immune to toxicity with the likes of you around…
- - -

To the rest… I suppose I have clarified things.

#116 by ZafarA
Thanks for the post.
Long time no see. Where have u been?
Sridhar

re:#114 by tahmed32
Thanks for the post.
I hope i have not offended u or other muslims. I am not questioning the tenets of Islam of which Haj is one. I am just saying: it is time to be practical even in one`s religious beliefs.
Sridhar

``Not really since I haven`t read that book. More like out of that movie (The Siege?) with Bruce Willis in it. You know, the US Army kind of invades NYC in response to terrorist bombings. I was thoroughly impressed by that movie.``

...how long were these people ruled by fillum isstaaars?

“It is better for Indian muslims to visit Hazrat Bal instead, where i am told Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)`s Hair is enshrined. This will bring the much needed money to Kashmir and keep the money in circulation within India.”

Climate also is better, but what to do yaar…Haj is one of the Five Pillars of Islam and all.