My SAARC Diary
Farzana Versey January 6, 2004
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#81 Posted by Urstruly on January 9, 2004 7:37:07 am
Dear jiagale
Welcome aboard. We always welcome new hindus at this forum with open arms. Since you are new, let me explain with a parable what happens between me and other chowk hindus here:
Once there was a man who was passing by a river and he saw a scorpion floating on a leaf in the river water. The scorpion was screaming for help. At hearing his pleas, the man, without a second thought jumps into the river. He holds the scorpion in his palm and starts swimming towards the bank. But just as the man holds the scorpion in his hand the scorpion stings him but man doesn`t let it go. Until the man reaches the bank, the scorpion stings him several times but man keeps on swimming and reaches the bank and sits the scorpion on the grounds.
The scorpion says to the man ``Yo dude, I am quite surprised at you. I stung you like 20 times and even then you saved my life. Is there something wrong with you?``
The man replies ``Nope, I am not crazy; the fact of the matter is that your nature compelled you to sting me and I was compelled by my nature to save you``
So my friend jiyagale the situation with me and hindus at this forum is just like that man and the scorpion. I try to save hindus from their religious hatred of Muslims and their prejudices and hatefilled biases against Paksitanis. It is this hatred which has blinded them and it is drwoning them in itself. I try to save them and I get stung. I am compelled by my nature and they are compelled by their nature.
#80 Posted by Urstruly on January 9, 2004 7:02:03 am
Lahori200
As a matter of fact I totally agree with your analogy of John and prostitute rather than car dealership, but if you are following my posts then you will know that I was using Arjun-m`s criteria of worth of a nation. According to his criteria the worth of a nation depends on how much America approves of that nation. For him moral values have no bearing in such relationship. And if you remember India tried to prostitute itself to John as deligently as it could but John chose Pakistan. And you know what happens to the abandoned prostitutes? their kothas are deserted. Bai-ji descends to a mere randi. As a lahori you must know all these things, don`t you?
#79 Posted by FarzanaVersey on January 9, 2004 12:01:19 am
Before I respond to some queries, one correction. “Will those in such far-flung areas who have been separated by their relatives have it easy anymore?” should read from …I guess I am watching too many saas-bahu serials…or am I??
#1 by omar_r_quraishi:
[farzana, i`m just curious -- where do you live? as in i presume it`s India]
Must confess, I initially assumed there was sarcasm here :) I forgot that all I said was I am Indian Muslim. Yes, I do live in India.
- - -
#2 by nazarhayatkhan:
[In general, I liked the Indian media people. Their emphasis was on peace & future. They were quite critical of some of Indian Government policies in Kashmir - and most of all, did not brag about the Indian successes & power. They were mature & I give them high marks.]
The difference is you watch them on Pak TV, I watch them on Indian TV… for me any media person who has to, or chooses to, toe the establishment line for convenience rather than out of conviction has no currency. Just before the Saarc summit, I found the so-called secular newspapers writing edit after edit singing praises about the party in power. Therefore, I have my reasons for playing devil’s advocate.
- - -
#12 by harimau on January 7:
[Try telling that to the Jinnah-lovers!]
Totally out of context, this comment. And I am a Jinnah-admirer myself.
[Aha! Now we know the meaning of ``Hindu pani, Musalman pani``. Musalman pani is jal-jeera and buttermilk and Hindu pani is Merlot and Drambuie…And all along I was thinking this had something to do with each group not wanting to use the lota used by the other!]
Unless the Mussalman is in Tam-Brahm territory, like ‘Dublin’, Chennai! Re. lota, NRI’s should stay away from such references…woh tau pochtey hai:)…apologies to those who get offended by my scatological references…
[The President of the country is a Muslim. Some of the leading cricketeers now and in the past have been Muslims. Several judges of the Supreme Court and High Courts are Muslims. Do you really want us to bring back the jizya and forcible conversions to prove that we are Muslim-friendly? Or would you prefer the imposition of Sharia for criminal offenders of The True Faith?]
Again, what is the ref to the context? Where do jiziya and Sharia come in here? I was merely upset that someone could imagine that the country is doing a huge favour by including a Muslim, the son of a maulvi who lived in a mosque and was from Gujarat in the Indian cricket team. This was like giving special points to that state government.
[It is nice to know that you harbor no illusions about Pakistan inviting you to reside there!]
How you twist things…this remark was specifically directed at the Indians who ask a certain Muslim to relocate there. Anyway, am still waiting for my first-class returnticket and stay arrangements for Kabul…
And listen to Stuka.
- - -
#13 by jang:
[Simple minded comment is that an elected govt. is kinda meant to represent people in a democracy (at least for a specific time) like it or not. Politicians will always attempt fill a void of representation, specially when they feel that a certain group is different enough and it feels that it lacks representation.]
I do affirm that the government is supposed to represent its citizens, but it cannot form political parties for minority groups or those that lack representation. As I said, this is fascist. I find it ironical that a Hindutva party wants to help form a ‘secular Muslim’ party…tomorrow they will decide on a Hindu dalit party, a Bajrang Dal Christian party…if I oppose Hindutva, I oppose any religion-based political party, that too one that is being co-opted. However, if certain groups do need a voice, they better be in a position to find their own. Simple.
[There is buyer and a supplier.]
If I need to buy meat, I won’t go to a vegetable vendor…
[My though is that ``Secular Muslims`` (whatever that is.. i guess it just means middle-professional class muslim) have pretty much similar representaional needs as rest of the non-muslim middle class.]
True. So, if you agree with me, why are you quarrelling??
- - -
#14 by Satire on January:
[``How the media plays moll``: A case of the Kettle calling the pot black!]
If you use a carafe instead of a regular kettle, then you can afford to do so!
- - -
#15 by arjun_m on January 7”
[The Central government also plans to give a Rs.50 crore package to the Ajmer dargah.
++
And the problem with that is?
The Ajmer dargah, like the siddhivinayak temple in bombay, is visited by people from many religions.]
Hmm…this is wonderful, coming from you… people of all religions also powder their noses, so would the government please provide more…er…powder rooms? People of all religions need education, they need health, they need medical facilities…
PS: Thanks for putting in a word for me…the coffee at that place now costs only Rs.75 instead of 80 :)
- - -
#17 by dost-mittar:
[I missed the news about the BJP sponsoring a mulla party. Is this for real? If so, I think that they have very low opinion about the intelligence of muslim Indians and that they will not recognise that the real motive is to split the muslim vote. In the last elections, muslims voted selectively for whichever candidate had the best chance of beating the BJP and I dont see why they wont do the same again.]
This is for real, as per the report. (Incidentally, I had sent in a letter to the paper saying precisely what I have written here, but it was not published.) I do not think it is a genuine desire for helping the Muslims. I maintain it was a pre-Saarc, pre-election populist announcement. However, it is also a smart move. You want to justify the existence of sadhus in politics, then include imams and maulvis too...
- - -
#20 by MaheshG2:
[Farzana behan,
Lagta hai aap ki likhai hamare samajh ke baahar hai. Kitni baar bhi padoon mujhe yeh samajh mein nahin aata ki aap kisko gaali de rahin hai :)]
Aapko taajub hoga ke hum gaali khaaney ke aadee hai, dene ke nahin! Aur aap kyon humpar itne meherban ho rahe hai? Ab sab ko pataa chal jaayega ke itne ‘hits’ kahaan se aa rahe hai agar aap khuley aam bayaan kar dete hai ke aap issey baar-baar padh rahe hai…aur phir bhi samajh mein nahin aata? Ajeeb baat hai…agar nadee sookhi hai tau phir aap itney gehrey paani mein kaise doob gaye??? ;)
Seriously, why are you nitpicking?
Let me answer the queries in your other post:
[#33 by MaheshG2 on January 7, 2004 3:20pm PT
Stuka #29,
I guess you are correct. But I am really confused about where Farzana stands.]
1) Does she or does she not want the subsidies to be stopped?
2) Does she or does she not want India to make peace with Pakistan?
3) Does she or does she not want India to reject the likes of Bukhari?]
1.Yes. For all religious stuff. We have enough devotees in this country and their deen-bandhu outside to finance these.
2.She does not like war, mainly due to the decibel levels…for more info on her views re. peace read ‘The Big Turn On’.
3.She wants India to reject all religious leaders meddling in affairs of the state. This is why she is so against the saffron brigade, and not because the Hindus have a little more skin on them…
As for where she stands, at the moment on a cold marble floor.
- - -
#29 by stuka:
[If a Hindu was to write these words....
``The welfare of all citizens in a democracy rests on the government in power. The last time a party was formed for the welfare of a community, we had another country. ``
...he or she would be hailed a great nationalist. Yet, because Farzana writes it, no one recognizes the validity of the point??? ]
So true! But I do not wish to be hailed as a ‘great nationalist’. The last one was Narendra Modi…let me be the simple Indian I am. I hope you don’t mind that I am a Cadillac Communist, though!
- - -
#31 by rsaxena:
[the pakistani establishment seems content, but farzana is not...the bjp has work to do..surprised?]
I always knew you were in touch with the ISI…but now I also know you are facilitating the BJP’s ‘work’ as well :)
- - -
#39 by DRUMZ:
[Every 4 months i drop by and find the same people passionately engaged in the same old boring discussions.]
Zaraa saamne tau aao…oh heck, I will have to wait for 4 months. Is that when you take your laxative???!! I am curious…how can people be both passionate and boring at the same time?
[I however strongly suggest that even if peace is reached, (almost) everyone on chowk should meet somewhere in a kashmeri park and freely begin shooting eachother. I would kill to see all these pseudo S. Asian AMERICANS actuallty set foot in the region they cant stop blabbering about.]
Aha, this is where I agree with you…but since they will be huddled together (urstruly will discover that arjun makes great kahwah, and rsaxena will be feeling romair’s natty tie) I think one of us will have to do the shooting…right now I am trying to figure out how to use a digital camera, though there is an auto-focus one with red-eye reduction around. Which one are you using?
I know, this is all futile talk, especially when there is not enough food for the fish:)
PS: A certain lady sends her love and one has missed you…how are your poetry lessons going?...
Ballukhan:
Am not sure if your post is a swipe or not. And as you have maintained always, “Who cares about FV??Not me!!” I thought I’d spare you form reading a response! Thanks for your comments, anyway…
Farzana
#1 by omar_r_quraishi:
[farzana, i`m just curious -- where do you live? as in i presume it`s India]
Must confess, I initially assumed there was sarcasm here :) I forgot that all I said was I am Indian Muslim. Yes, I do live in India.
- - -
#2 by nazarhayatkhan:
[In general, I liked the Indian media people. Their emphasis was on peace & future. They were quite critical of some of Indian Government policies in Kashmir - and most of all, did not brag about the Indian successes & power. They were mature & I give them high marks.]
The difference is you watch them on Pak TV, I watch them on Indian TV… for me any media person who has to, or chooses to, toe the establishment line for convenience rather than out of conviction has no currency. Just before the Saarc summit, I found the so-called secular newspapers writing edit after edit singing praises about the party in power. Therefore, I have my reasons for playing devil’s advocate.
- - -
#12 by harimau on January 7:
[Try telling that to the Jinnah-lovers!]
Totally out of context, this comment. And I am a Jinnah-admirer myself.
[Aha! Now we know the meaning of ``Hindu pani, Musalman pani``. Musalman pani is jal-jeera and buttermilk and Hindu pani is Merlot and Drambuie…And all along I was thinking this had something to do with each group not wanting to use the lota used by the other!]
Unless the Mussalman is in Tam-Brahm territory, like ‘Dublin’, Chennai! Re. lota, NRI’s should stay away from such references…woh tau pochtey hai:)…apologies to those who get offended by my scatological references…
[The President of the country is a Muslim. Some of the leading cricketeers now and in the past have been Muslims. Several judges of the Supreme Court and High Courts are Muslims. Do you really want us to bring back the jizya and forcible conversions to prove that we are Muslim-friendly? Or would you prefer the imposition of Sharia for criminal offenders of The True Faith?]
Again, what is the ref to the context? Where do jiziya and Sharia come in here? I was merely upset that someone could imagine that the country is doing a huge favour by including a Muslim, the son of a maulvi who lived in a mosque and was from Gujarat in the Indian cricket team. This was like giving special points to that state government.
[It is nice to know that you harbor no illusions about Pakistan inviting you to reside there!]
How you twist things…this remark was specifically directed at the Indians who ask a certain Muslim to relocate there. Anyway, am still waiting for my first-class returnticket and stay arrangements for Kabul…
And listen to Stuka.
- - -
#13 by jang:
[Simple minded comment is that an elected govt. is kinda meant to represent people in a democracy (at least for a specific time) like it or not. Politicians will always attempt fill a void of representation, specially when they feel that a certain group is different enough and it feels that it lacks representation.]
I do affirm that the government is supposed to represent its citizens, but it cannot form political parties for minority groups or those that lack representation. As I said, this is fascist. I find it ironical that a Hindutva party wants to help form a ‘secular Muslim’ party…tomorrow they will decide on a Hindu dalit party, a Bajrang Dal Christian party…if I oppose Hindutva, I oppose any religion-based political party, that too one that is being co-opted. However, if certain groups do need a voice, they better be in a position to find their own. Simple.
[There is buyer and a supplier.]
If I need to buy meat, I won’t go to a vegetable vendor…
[My though is that ``Secular Muslims`` (whatever that is.. i guess it just means middle-professional class muslim) have pretty much similar representaional needs as rest of the non-muslim middle class.]
True. So, if you agree with me, why are you quarrelling??
- - -
#14 by Satire on January:
[``How the media plays moll``: A case of the Kettle calling the pot black!]
If you use a carafe instead of a regular kettle, then you can afford to do so!
- - -
#15 by arjun_m on January 7”
[The Central government also plans to give a Rs.50 crore package to the Ajmer dargah.
++
And the problem with that is?
The Ajmer dargah, like the siddhivinayak temple in bombay, is visited by people from many religions.]
Hmm…this is wonderful, coming from you… people of all religions also powder their noses, so would the government please provide more…er…powder rooms? People of all religions need education, they need health, they need medical facilities…
PS: Thanks for putting in a word for me…the coffee at that place now costs only Rs.75 instead of 80 :)
- - -
#17 by dost-mittar:
[I missed the news about the BJP sponsoring a mulla party. Is this for real? If so, I think that they have very low opinion about the intelligence of muslim Indians and that they will not recognise that the real motive is to split the muslim vote. In the last elections, muslims voted selectively for whichever candidate had the best chance of beating the BJP and I dont see why they wont do the same again.]
This is for real, as per the report. (Incidentally, I had sent in a letter to the paper saying precisely what I have written here, but it was not published.) I do not think it is a genuine desire for helping the Muslims. I maintain it was a pre-Saarc, pre-election populist announcement. However, it is also a smart move. You want to justify the existence of sadhus in politics, then include imams and maulvis too...
- - -
#20 by MaheshG2:
[Farzana behan,
Lagta hai aap ki likhai hamare samajh ke baahar hai. Kitni baar bhi padoon mujhe yeh samajh mein nahin aata ki aap kisko gaali de rahin hai :)]
Aapko taajub hoga ke hum gaali khaaney ke aadee hai, dene ke nahin! Aur aap kyon humpar itne meherban ho rahe hai? Ab sab ko pataa chal jaayega ke itne ‘hits’ kahaan se aa rahe hai agar aap khuley aam bayaan kar dete hai ke aap issey baar-baar padh rahe hai…aur phir bhi samajh mein nahin aata? Ajeeb baat hai…agar nadee sookhi hai tau phir aap itney gehrey paani mein kaise doob gaye??? ;)
Seriously, why are you nitpicking?
Let me answer the queries in your other post:
[#33 by MaheshG2 on January 7, 2004 3:20pm PT
Stuka #29,
I guess you are correct. But I am really confused about where Farzana stands.]
1) Does she or does she not want the subsidies to be stopped?
2) Does she or does she not want India to make peace with Pakistan?
3) Does she or does she not want India to reject the likes of Bukhari?]
1.Yes. For all religious stuff. We have enough devotees in this country and their deen-bandhu outside to finance these.
2.She does not like war, mainly due to the decibel levels…for more info on her views re. peace read ‘The Big Turn On’.
3.She wants India to reject all religious leaders meddling in affairs of the state. This is why she is so against the saffron brigade, and not because the Hindus have a little more skin on them…
As for where she stands, at the moment on a cold marble floor.
- - -
#29 by stuka:
[If a Hindu was to write these words....
``The welfare of all citizens in a democracy rests on the government in power. The last time a party was formed for the welfare of a community, we had another country. ``
...he or she would be hailed a great nationalist. Yet, because Farzana writes it, no one recognizes the validity of the point??? ]
So true! But I do not wish to be hailed as a ‘great nationalist’. The last one was Narendra Modi…let me be the simple Indian I am. I hope you don’t mind that I am a Cadillac Communist, though!
- - -
#31 by rsaxena:
[the pakistani establishment seems content, but farzana is not...the bjp has work to do..surprised?]
I always knew you were in touch with the ISI…but now I also know you are facilitating the BJP’s ‘work’ as well :)
- - -
#39 by DRUMZ:
[Every 4 months i drop by and find the same people passionately engaged in the same old boring discussions.]
Zaraa saamne tau aao…oh heck, I will have to wait for 4 months. Is that when you take your laxative???!! I am curious…how can people be both passionate and boring at the same time?
[I however strongly suggest that even if peace is reached, (almost) everyone on chowk should meet somewhere in a kashmeri park and freely begin shooting eachother. I would kill to see all these pseudo S. Asian AMERICANS actuallty set foot in the region they cant stop blabbering about.]
Aha, this is where I agree with you…but since they will be huddled together (urstruly will discover that arjun makes great kahwah, and rsaxena will be feeling romair’s natty tie) I think one of us will have to do the shooting…right now I am trying to figure out how to use a digital camera, though there is an auto-focus one with red-eye reduction around. Which one are you using?
I know, this is all futile talk, especially when there is not enough food for the fish:)
PS: A certain lady sends her love and one has missed you…how are your poetry lessons going?...
Ballukhan:
Am not sure if your post is a swipe or not. And as you have maintained always, “Who cares about FV??Not me!!” I thought I’d spare you form reading a response! Thanks for your comments, anyway…
Farzana
#78 Posted by ZafarA on January 8, 2004 11:54:44 pm
Farzana Begum
``...the secular Muslims are just not interested in permitting clerics to be their voice.``
Well said!
``It is fascist for the Establishment to decide who must represent our ideology. ``
But very convenient, you must admit. Excellent piece.
Regards
Zafar
``...the secular Muslims are just not interested in permitting clerics to be their voice.``
Well said!
``It is fascist for the Establishment to decide who must represent our ideology. ``
But very convenient, you must admit. Excellent piece.
Regards
Zafar
#77 Posted by ZafarA on January 8, 2004 11:54:44 pm
“In the past few days these spineless and chracterless journalists and media were roaming in our country like they have come to their susraal. I am glad that these cockroaches and their genocidal maniacs of leaders are out of my country now.”
Urstruly Sahib, a classic example of your oeuvre, mashallah. Best regards.
Urstruly Sahib, a classic example of your oeuvre, mashallah. Best regards.
#76 Posted by ironman on January 8, 2004 10:23:09 pm
Romair,
Perhaps its time to tell you the truth about Imran Khan.
If you look at pictures of Daniel Pearl (http://www.danielpearl.org/)...you may be struck by his resemblence to Imran...minus the long hair off course. Sometime ago there was this Abdali character on chowk...who said pakistanis look like israelis.
He wasn`t kidding.
Its time to reveal the truth Romair...a lot of your countrymen have been fathered by jews...visiting from Israel.
Most people think Daniel Pearl was on a journalistic mission to pakistan. Hell!...Abdali knows better.
And no prizes for guessing why Pearl was murdered...!
But I digress. We were talking of Imran Khan.
Imran, as you well know, adored his mother shaukat khanum. He speaks about her in his autobigraphy and off course he built the cancer hospital in her memory...shaukat khanum cancer hospital.
Now if you read his autobiography (which I`m sure you did, being a big fan of Imran)...you may remember he writes that his mother told him repeatedly never ever to marry a western woman.
Now that may make you wonder...why he disobeyed and dishonoured the memory of his beloved mother????
The truth again for you Romair...on her deathbed, Imran`s mother revealed to him who his real father was!!!!
..and well, now you know why he married a jewish woman.
Epilogue:
The elder Pearl has 2 photos on his dressing table...Daniel and Imran.
P.S.
Abdali is not available for comments. He changed his name to Abdalnikoff and is currently in TelAviv searching for his roots.
Perhaps its time to tell you the truth about Imran Khan.
If you look at pictures of Daniel Pearl (http://www.danielpearl.org/)...you may be struck by his resemblence to Imran...minus the long hair off course. Sometime ago there was this Abdali character on chowk...who said pakistanis look like israelis.
He wasn`t kidding.
Its time to reveal the truth Romair...a lot of your countrymen have been fathered by jews...visiting from Israel.
Most people think Daniel Pearl was on a journalistic mission to pakistan. Hell!...Abdali knows better.
And no prizes for guessing why Pearl was murdered...!
But I digress. We were talking of Imran Khan.
Imran, as you well know, adored his mother shaukat khanum. He speaks about her in his autobigraphy and off course he built the cancer hospital in her memory...shaukat khanum cancer hospital.
Now if you read his autobiography (which I`m sure you did, being a big fan of Imran)...you may remember he writes that his mother told him repeatedly never ever to marry a western woman.
Now that may make you wonder...why he disobeyed and dishonoured the memory of his beloved mother????
The truth again for you Romair...on her deathbed, Imran`s mother revealed to him who his real father was!!!!
..and well, now you know why he married a jewish woman.
Epilogue:
The elder Pearl has 2 photos on his dressing table...Daniel and Imran.
P.S.
Abdali is not available for comments. He changed his name to Abdalnikoff and is currently in TelAviv searching for his roots.
#75 Posted by JiyaJale on January 8, 2004 10:23:09 pm
Sorry my post was 62 not 63 and it was regarding Urstruly #53. Aplogies to Romair
#74 Posted by JiyaJale on January 8, 2004 10:23:09 pm
Thanks #66 rsridhar. All I attempt to do is be fair, honest, and if wrong admit the mistake. I am a big fan of Al Franken. I am sure you`ve heard of him. Well, hang in there buddy.
#73 Posted by stuka on January 8, 2004 9:15:30 pm
Harimau
``I advocated collective punishment for CRIMINAL ACTS involving murder and arson when you are unable to identify individual criminal elements in a mob``
I see. So you would advocate using Canberras of the Indian Air Force to bomb Hindu neighborhoods in Gujarat? With friends like you, the Hindus have no need for enemies.
``I advocated collective punishment for CRIMINAL ACTS involving murder and arson when you are unable to identify individual criminal elements in a mob``
I see. So you would advocate using Canberras of the Indian Air Force to bomb Hindu neighborhoods in Gujarat? With friends like you, the Hindus have no need for enemies.
#72 Posted by stuka on January 8, 2004 9:13:21 pm
``Butt-kissing self-loathing people like you are the perfect example of spineless Hindus. ``
HAHAHA Arrogant Nazi loving Tam Brahms on the other hand are what Hindus should look up to huh? Dumbass.
You prove that money has to be paid for the Mansarovar Yatra. So what??? Money has to be paid for Haj as well. A subsidy is just that, a subsidy that reduces costs. You stioll gotta pay. A 20 page document from a tour operator says more than questions answered in parliament??
``amount of about Rs 46,000 will have to be paid towards yatra arrangements like transport, food, accommodation, medical check-up, visa etc``
How do u know the total cost is exactly that?? Rs 46000??? Maybe it is 49000. Maybe it is 55000. Why would the Minister of Externa Affairs lie? To put soothing balm on the sensitivites of Harimau Iyer?
Idiot.
HAHAHA Arrogant Nazi loving Tam Brahms on the other hand are what Hindus should look up to huh? Dumbass.
You prove that money has to be paid for the Mansarovar Yatra. So what??? Money has to be paid for Haj as well. A subsidy is just that, a subsidy that reduces costs. You stioll gotta pay. A 20 page document from a tour operator says more than questions answered in parliament??
``amount of about Rs 46,000 will have to be paid towards yatra arrangements like transport, food, accommodation, medical check-up, visa etc``
How do u know the total cost is exactly that?? Rs 46000??? Maybe it is 49000. Maybe it is 55000. Why would the Minister of Externa Affairs lie? To put soothing balm on the sensitivites of Harimau Iyer?
Idiot.
#71 Posted by rsaxena on January 8, 2004 8:15:40 pm
ahahahahah....arjun_m`s smacking urstruly around...
#70 Posted by harimau on January 8, 2004 8:15:40 pm
Ref stuka #54
[`` SO UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF SUBSIDIES FOR THE KAILAS-MANASAROVAR YATRA, YOU SHOULD STOP THIS FALSE PROPAGANDA IMMEDIATELY. ``
You don`t have to shout.....]
I shout because people like you are repeating this LIE to justify the Haj subsidy.
[THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRA (SHRI DINESH SINGH): (a) to (b) Government of India have been providing organisation and logistical support to the Hindu/Sikh pilgrims visiting shrines in Pakistan: pilgrims visiting Kailash Mansarovar: and Mulsim pilgrims proceeding for Haj to Makkah. In the case of Haj pilgrims, besides the organisational assistance. Government have been arranging special fares both by sea and air.
So, yes, the subsidy provided is more in case o Haj travellers as Air Fair is fixed. Interestingly enough the BJP government INCREASED the amount of subsidy though there was no organized demand. (Just found this out from doing a google search)]
I have actually queried tour operators in Bombay and gotten a 20-page document on how to go about signing up for the Manasarovar yatra and the document made it clear that one couldn`t expect any subsidy from any government agency. The Chinese government requires that all pilgrims must be selected/approved by the Government of India and they will issue visas only after this process. The Government of India, to ensure the pilgrims` safety, subjects them to a medical examination and then selects pilgrims in a randomized lottery.
Here is some more from a google site:
[The Ministry of External Affairs organises a pilgrimage from June to Sept. One should have attained the age of 18 years to apply. Because of the rush, those who have once visited the mount are advised to give way to fresh applicants. The Government-organised yatra takes 26 days - 18 days on foot. The yatris holding passports have to complete visa formalities and medical check-ups. For this purpose an extra four days` stay is required in New Delhi. For the year 2003, 16 batches of 44 pilgrims each were scheduled. The first batch was to leave New Delhi on May 30, 2003. (See Kailash yatra put off & latest report: China clears Kailash yatra)
Risks from altitude sickness and natural calamities have to be taken care of. The yatra involves trekking at altitudes of up to 19,500 ft. Those suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma, heart disease, epilepsy etc are advised not to undertake the yatra. The applicants have to submit a medical certificate.
The applications are submitted to the Under Secretary (China), Room No 271(A), South Block, Central Secretariat, Ministry of External Affairs, New Delhi-110 011. The applications for 2003 were accepted up to March 14. An amount of about Rs 46,000 will have to be paid towards yatra arrangements like transport, food, accommodation, medical check-up, visa etc. This does not include any extra personal expenditures like hiring a pony or shopping in China.]
So, WHAT is the subsidy?
[Looks to me as a repeat of the Shah Bano case. Government proposes and appeases. Common Muslims get the stick from people like you though they are no party to the process in the first place.
Why ?]
Did you carefully read that the Government of India suggests that those who have visited Mt. Kailash not apply again? Did you KNOW that when the suggestion was made that the Haj subsidy should be limited to first-time pilgrims to Mecca, the Haj Committee said that such a decision would be ``politicising the pilgrimage``?
Butt-kissing self-loathing people like you are the perfect example of spineless Hindus.
[`` SO UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF SUBSIDIES FOR THE KAILAS-MANASAROVAR YATRA, YOU SHOULD STOP THIS FALSE PROPAGANDA IMMEDIATELY. ``
You don`t have to shout.....]
I shout because people like you are repeating this LIE to justify the Haj subsidy.
[THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRA (SHRI DINESH SINGH): (a) to (b) Government of India have been providing organisation and logistical support to the Hindu/Sikh pilgrims visiting shrines in Pakistan: pilgrims visiting Kailash Mansarovar: and Mulsim pilgrims proceeding for Haj to Makkah. In the case of Haj pilgrims, besides the organisational assistance. Government have been arranging special fares both by sea and air.
So, yes, the subsidy provided is more in case o Haj travellers as Air Fair is fixed. Interestingly enough the BJP government INCREASED the amount of subsidy though there was no organized demand. (Just found this out from doing a google search)]
I have actually queried tour operators in Bombay and gotten a 20-page document on how to go about signing up for the Manasarovar yatra and the document made it clear that one couldn`t expect any subsidy from any government agency. The Chinese government requires that all pilgrims must be selected/approved by the Government of India and they will issue visas only after this process. The Government of India, to ensure the pilgrims` safety, subjects them to a medical examination and then selects pilgrims in a randomized lottery.
Here is some more from a google site:
[The Ministry of External Affairs organises a pilgrimage from June to Sept. One should have attained the age of 18 years to apply. Because of the rush, those who have once visited the mount are advised to give way to fresh applicants. The Government-organised yatra takes 26 days - 18 days on foot. The yatris holding passports have to complete visa formalities and medical check-ups. For this purpose an extra four days` stay is required in New Delhi. For the year 2003, 16 batches of 44 pilgrims each were scheduled. The first batch was to leave New Delhi on May 30, 2003. (See Kailash yatra put off & latest report: China clears Kailash yatra)
Risks from altitude sickness and natural calamities have to be taken care of. The yatra involves trekking at altitudes of up to 19,500 ft. Those suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma, heart disease, epilepsy etc are advised not to undertake the yatra. The applicants have to submit a medical certificate.
The applications are submitted to the Under Secretary (China), Room No 271(A), South Block, Central Secretariat, Ministry of External Affairs, New Delhi-110 011. The applications for 2003 were accepted up to March 14. An amount of about Rs 46,000 will have to be paid towards yatra arrangements like transport, food, accommodation, medical check-up, visa etc. This does not include any extra personal expenditures like hiring a pony or shopping in China.]
So, WHAT is the subsidy?
[Looks to me as a repeat of the Shah Bano case. Government proposes and appeases. Common Muslims get the stick from people like you though they are no party to the process in the first place.
Why ?]
Did you carefully read that the Government of India suggests that those who have visited Mt. Kailash not apply again? Did you KNOW that when the suggestion was made that the Haj subsidy should be limited to first-time pilgrims to Mecca, the Haj Committee said that such a decision would be ``politicising the pilgrimage``?
Butt-kissing self-loathing people like you are the perfect example of spineless Hindus.
#68 Posted by rsridhar on January 8, 2004 8:15:39 pm
re:#53 by Urstruly
USA`s policy is : talk soft but wield a big stick. That stick is not very visible.
God did not whisper into Mushy`s ears to compromise on Kashmir. I think USA`s role is unmistakable.
Of course, USA needs Pak`s co-opearation. If you are not hearing a lot of noise from US lawmakers, it is because Mushy did one more of his ``about turns`` and promised to co-operate with US in putting and end to terrorism. His joint statement with ABV should tell you something.
Why would US punish a dictator who is willing to co-operate? Nobody kills a golden goose.
Sridhar
USA`s policy is : talk soft but wield a big stick. That stick is not very visible.
God did not whisper into Mushy`s ears to compromise on Kashmir. I think USA`s role is unmistakable.
Of course, USA needs Pak`s co-opearation. If you are not hearing a lot of noise from US lawmakers, it is because Mushy did one more of his ``about turns`` and promised to co-operate with US in putting and end to terrorism. His joint statement with ABV should tell you something.
Why would US punish a dictator who is willing to co-operate? Nobody kills a golden goose.
Sridhar
#67 Posted by rsridhar on January 8, 2004 8:15:39 pm
re:#62 by jiyajale
Welcome to Chowk. I believe this is the first time i am interacting with you.
Urstruly is not a ``fundamentalist`` in the real sense. He does not have the guts to blow himself or others for a cause. He is too much of a coward for that. He is, what we call, a ``closet mullah``. It is all talk and nothing much else for him. From time to time he shows his true colors. And the guy hates India, US, Israel (not necessarily in that order) as nobody else.
Sridhar
Welcome to Chowk. I believe this is the first time i am interacting with you.
Urstruly is not a ``fundamentalist`` in the real sense. He does not have the guts to blow himself or others for a cause. He is too much of a coward for that. He is, what we call, a ``closet mullah``. It is all talk and nothing much else for him. From time to time he shows his true colors. And the guy hates India, US, Israel (not necessarily in that order) as nobody else.
Sridhar
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