My SAARC Diary

Dear jiagale

Welcome aboard. We always welcome new hindus at this forum with open arms. Since you are new, let me explain with a parable what happens between me and other chowk hindus here:

Once there was a man who was passing by a river and he saw a scorpion floating on a leaf in the river water. The scorpion was screaming for help. At hearing his pleas, the man, without a second thought jumps into the river. He holds the scorpion in his palm and starts swimming towards the bank. But just as the man holds the scorpion in his hand the scorpion stings him but man doesn`t let it go. Until the man reaches the bank, the scorpion stings him several times but man keeps on swimming and reaches the bank and sits the scorpion on the grounds.

The scorpion says to the man ``Yo dude, I am quite surprised at you. I stung you like 20 times and even then you saved my life. Is there something wrong with you?``

The man replies ``Nope, I am not crazy; the fact of the matter is that your nature compelled you to sting me and I was compelled by my nature to save you``

So my friend jiyagale the situation with me and hindus at this forum is just like that man and the scorpion. I try to save hindus from their religious hatred of Muslims and their prejudices and hatefilled biases against Paksitanis. It is this hatred which has blinded them and it is drwoning them in itself. I try to save them and I get stung. I am compelled by my nature and they are compelled by their nature.

ZafarA

abay aadhay hindu kahaN tha tu.

Arjunm-60

``3 billion over 5 years starting this year or next!! HA..That hasn`t even passed congress yet..wait till i mail senators Liddy Dole, Joe Biden and others about the need to put restrictions on any aid 1. end of support to Islamic terrorism and 2. stopping nuclear proliferation....``

But your leaders just said that we are your brother. Are these your real plans instead? So my initial assessment of you hindus as ``baghal maiN churri, moNh meiN Ram Ram`` was absolutely correct. Isn`t it?

Ref stuka #72

[HAHAHA Arrogant Nazi loving Tam Brahms on the other hand are what Hindus should look
up to huh? Dumbass.]

Arrogant Tam-Brahms have no doubts about their self-worth. They don`t look up to anyone else for approval. And they have no reason to apologize for the actions of earlier generations. They also have the guts to ask why it is that they have to pay a price for ``oppressing the Dalits`` but Muslims don`t have to pay a price for oppressing ALL Hindus for a thousand years. Arrogant Tam-Brahms are willing to wait until Hell freezes over to get an honest reply because they recognize they will have to wait that long and longer. They are kind enough to be willing to attribute this delay not to the slow workings of other people`s brains but merely to the prejudices instilled in them by what passes for history education in India and political propaganda from the Left.

[You prove that money has to be paid for the Mansarovar Yatra. So what??? Money has to be paid for Haj as well. A subsidy is just that, a subsidy that reduces costs. You stioll gotta pay. A 20 page document from a tour operator says more than questions answered in parliament??]

So exactly what was said in the Parliament by a minister? Let me quote:

{TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, DECEMBER 23, 2003 02:15:02 AM
NEW DELHI :

....Compared to the Rs 12,000 subsidy for Haj pilgrims, devotees visiting Kailash Mansarovar are given Rs 3,250. The amount is given to the Kumaon Vikas Madal for providing facilities to the Hindu pilgrims.}

The Government makes a payment to Kumaon Mandal Vikas Nigam (to give it its full and correct name) because it is making use of some of KVMN`s facilities.

I remember 12-Head wanting to know if the running of special trains during the Kumbh Mela wasn`t a subsidy akin to the Haj subsidy. I am sure you would similarly ask if providing security to pilgrims to Amarnath isn`t a subsidy. You probably would like to see the pilgrims massacred by grenade-throwing jihadis. So, just to refresh my memory and save me a search of Chowk, what exactly was your stand on the Godhra incident? Did the pilgrims bring it on themselves by singing bhajans on a public transportation system?

[How do u know the total cost is exactly that?? Rs 46000??? Maybe it is 49000. Maybe it is 55000. Why would the Minister of Externa Affairs lie? To put soothing balm on the sensitivites of Harimau Iyer?]

You can check out competitive rates offered by several tour operators. I did because I was/still am interested in making this trip. You obviously don`t have any interest except in parroting untuths.

[Idiot.]

Well, you are the one who couldn`t even do a decent google search.

{http://lccables.com/kailash/tips.html

This pilgrimage is conducted by Uttar Pradesh State Government and Kumaon Mandal Vikas Nigam (KMVN) in association with the Ministry of External affairs. KMVN makes all the arrangements up to the Lipu Lekh Pass, which includes accommodation in tin sheds at all the night halts, electricity through generators, simple vegetarian food, etc. The cost of all these facilities is included in the package by KMVN. All kinds of medical and security facilities are also provided. The U.P. Police, the Prantiya Suraksha Dal and the Indo-Tibetan Border Police provide the required service to the pilgrims. Ponies and porters are also arranged for the convenience of the travelers.

After Lipu Lekh Pass, Chinese authorities take over and provide the necessary facilities. The Chinese authorities do not arrange for food during the parikrama. Hence, the yatris should carry their own provisions in Tibet.

In order to undertake the journey from India, one has to go through the Ministry of External Affairs and submit application. Only around 200 pilgrims are selected every year from among thousands who apply. The most important requirement for the journey is the medical fitness certificate test. The test has to be cleared to undertake the arduous trip in which trekking of almost 20,000 feet is involved. For this purpose, a clinical checkup of the traveler’s physical condition is made for two days.

After that, one has to undergo the visa and foreign exchange formalities. Pilgrims are allowed to take US $500 for the yatra of which $400 has to be given to the Chinese authorities to cover expenses of accommodation, transportation, coolies, etc.

The duration of the entire trip is 32 days from Delhi of which only the first and last two days are spent in bus. The entire trip is under the guidance of the Ministry of External Affairs and Kumaon Vikas Mandal Nigam (a unit of U.P. Tourism, responsible for the pilgrimage on the Indian side).}

{http://www.kmvn.org/kailash.htm

During the selection itself Yatris are advised to procure good quality trekking shoes/ walking-stick, raincoats, Polythene and Rucksacks to carry their belongings, goggles, woolens mufflers, hats, jackets/wind-cheaters, couple of pairs of socks, cameras, transistor radios and general medicines. Notebooks and pens can also prove handy.

The weight of your luggage should be upto 25 kg only. Extra weight will be charged.

From Delhi to Lipulekh and back from Lipulekh to Delhi there are good arrangements by KMSV.N, but K.M.V.N. or Uttranchal Tourism is not responsible for any accident. If a yatri doesn`t attend after selection, money will be not refunded.

The lodging facilities on the way are in snow-huts, tin-sheds or tents in some places. Warm beddings are adequately provided. All these facilities are arranged in Tibet also. The yatries have to cook their own food for 6 days while undertaking the `parikrama`.

Onion-less food rice, dal, chapatis, vegetables, pickle, puri, paratha, pakori, vegetable soup, sweets, rasna, tea, Bournvita, and local green vegetables are available. The food required for the duration of the parikrama is advised to be purchased from Delhi or any major town enroute. In Tibet, stoves and utensils are provided.

In case of illness, one may have to stop the yatra midway and return, but money is not refunded. In emergencies, a helicopter can also be arranged, on payment and depending on availability.}

By the way, when you read the Ministry of External Affairs website, you get the information that helicopters are available for medical evacuation. One would automatically assume that it is free. You can see that it is NOT free. Or may even not be available.

As I said before, people who are interested in making the journey go through several sources to obtain their information; those who want to score political points lie.

Ref stuka #73

[``I advocated collective punishment for CRIMINAL ACTS involving murder and arson when you are unable to identify individual criminal elements in a mob``

I see. So you would advocate using Canberras of the Indian Air Force to bomb Hindu neighborhoods in Gujarat? With friends like you, the Hindus have no need for enemies.]

I believe I suggested collective fines -- the idea was to hit them in the pocketbook -- so that each community would be involved in controlling its miscreants. Mullah321 was vehemently against ``punishment by association`` and I pointed out to him that the Pakistan Air Force bombed and strafed the Balochi rebels so he shouldn`t complain too much about my suggestion.

The use of the Canberras would be ideal for the simple reason I don`t know if any one of them is still flying. But you forget that if I were selecting targets, Godhra would be my starting point... as it was for the mob of Islamic thugs..... which you so conveniently forget.

Yaaawn!

Ref harimau #12

[And I am a Jinnah-admirer myself.]

You need to be de-programmed! A healthy skepticism is what you need about all things and all people.

[Unless the Mussalman is in Tam-Brahm territory, like ‘Dublin’, Chennai!]

Well, do let me know when you get to Chennai. I just bought absinthe... banned in several countries because it is actually toxic (in large doses and over a long period of time... so it is quite okay to drink one glass!)

[Re. lota, NRI’s should stay away from such references…woh tau pochtey hai:)…apologies to those who get offended by my scatological references…]

Re lota.... the word is corrupted sufficiently in its meaning that it means in our household the tumbler (a drinking glass without foot or stem). Thus I intended no scatological references at all.

[Anyway, am still waiting for my first-class returnticket and stay arrangements for Kabul…]

One way, lady. No return from the Islamic Jannat-on-earth for you! Stay arrangements? Surely you haven`t forgotten my suggestion about being in the harem of Mullah Omar! Come on, I expect better than selective memory from you!

[And listen to Stuka.]

No. He still needs to work himself free from the prejudices instilled by Nehruvian education. Then he will be in a position to confront the truth.

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#79 by FarzanaVersey on January 9, 2004 0:01am PT
Before I respond to some queries, one correction. “Will those in such far-flung areas who have been separated by their relatives have it easy anymore-

A Jungian would say- your slip of tongue reveals more than it hides-

anyway! I am all ears provided your blacks are greyer.

``HAHAHA Arrogant Nazi loving Tam Brahms on the other hand are what Hindus should look up to huh?``

You know Stuka, I`ve always wondered why you picked that handle...

#66 by rsridhar on January 8, 2004 8:15pm PT
Urstruly hates bacuse he has lapped up all the puke stuff that has been served by his favourite maulavis regarding kafirs and jews. It is his fault- does he have brains or not?

Apologise for this intrusion:

My friend and a long time chowkie Harish Nambiar has met with a tragic accident. Please click on this link (you may have to sign in) and express your condolences and support.

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#79 FarzanaVersey

Its not the government attempting to form a party, but BJP. Nothing wrong if they form any kind of political party, in fact that exactly is the bussiness they are in d-uh!
My quarrel is that in an effort to find everything wrong with BJP, you are over-stretching. Surely the new party is a pure political stunt and not worthy of any attention. There must be far bigger priorities you can fault BJP on (and the govt which is different.)

Re. secular muslims. I do empathise with the pain and dillema they go thru. On one hand they have to put up with the Bukharis etc as well as political antagonism and insults from the hindutvas...the misery made much worse because bjp probably does represent them as much as it does the majority community. It got to be stiffling.(here it comes) However, if the majority enjoys irfan pathans bowling and tries to celebrate his origins (albeit in a somwhat cheesy manner, what can we do, we grew up on amar-akbar-anthony), why attack that. Attack the Gujrat riots, and Godhra burning, but celebrate Irfan. Else you will continue to lose credibility.

Romair, the thing about female journalist liking Mushrafs noor is a lie. Farzana made clear that she did not go for the junket :-)

Regarding post #81. Dear Urstruly. Thank you for your reception. Also, thank you for correctly identifying my identity, even the FBI couldn’t have done a better job. In the future, I will forward potential identity queries to you. As far as your comment regarding ‘man compelled by nature to save the scorpion’ is concerned, it is totally ludicrous. Perhaps you should brush up on Thomas Hobbes. You are not as familiar with him I take it, but you will. ‘Man is fearful’ he said. Meaning if it knows its life is in danger, it will do anything to protect it, let alone get stung the second time. You forgot to mention the mental state of your man in the example and forgot to include he was insane, because only an idiot would attempt to save a scorpion not knowing the fact the scorpion is going to bite. I hope you are aware that mentally the only difference between us (humans) and other creatures is we can think, plan and get what we want by reasoning. But of course you learn such things, only when you get time-off from reading Koran. But not to worry, I and other enlightened folks here will do our best to enlighten you whenever we can. As far as the last paragraph is concerned, I disagree that the problem is people like myself or those with moderate views. To the contrary, I think the problem is those people who say: one side has done all the right things and is without any blame, whereas the other side renegades from its promises. If this is how a person thinks, being rigid in one’s perception then any agreement is extremely unlikely. Have you heard of the phrase ‘give and take?’ Didn’t think so.

Stuka and Manasarovar:

Their hardly any equivalence. Indian govt is spending money inside india, which goes towards dev. of Kumaon Reagion (or atleast Kumaon Babus). The scale of the trip is veeeery small. Their is no religious discrimination for the trip. So just stop it. Haj subsidy is a SOP and a huge political issue, plain and simple.