My SAARC Diary

farzana, i`m just curious -- where do you live? as in i presume it`s india

This is all well and true - India does have a fundamentalist hindu strain and it shows through in their media whether news or films. But that`s just part of the picture. Indian education is far ahead of ours and their economy is set well for the future. The saffron brigade won`t be allowed to damage that progress. We need peace for ourselves not for anyone else`s sake. It wouldn`t do them any harm either.

Farzana

In general, I liked the Indian media people. Their emphasis was on peace & future. They were quite critical of some of Indian Government policies in Kashmir - and most of all, did not brag about the Indian successes & power. They were mature & I give them high marks.

The Pakistani media - sorry to say - except for a few - were still in their traditional hangover - same old Kashmir, Kashmir, Kashmir - bickering about the commas & full stops in the agreement.

In fact, majority of the callers told them not to sensationalize the issue & think of the poor masses of the area. A common caller displayed a better sensitivity & maturity than the TV anchormen. (Hamid Mir of Geo, Dr. Masood & the other joker with him on ARY)

In a strange congruance of interests - Mulla, Military, PPP, PML (N) - all were for peace and agreement - in accordance with their own independent logic.

Musharaf, for the first time, gave a Press Conference where he got a Pass Grade. It took him 4 years to learn this.

I`m really not sure what to say...but the media gives the people what they want..and it would seem that the audiences want to hear about peace..which is a good thing?

Maybe we should diffrentiate between peace and living togther like best friends...I think most people in both nations want war to stop, as someone with friends posted on the border..I want the cease fire to continue..and I think most other people do to...

And I personaly felt visiting Pakistan is an eyeopenere..even PLU (people Like us) with supposed access to media and liberal ideology do have preconcieved notions which are only shattered once u cross the border...I mean, you know you are similair but you are suprised when u see actually how similiar you are..

I agree that BJP is trying the appease-the-mullah strategy now- as if the mullahs represent the ‘secular’ Muslim . By trying to form a “Muslim” party BJP has shown its evil intention of splittng the muslim votes by encouraging the mullahs to align to the communal politics. BJP is playing with fire and is adopting double speak. FV is right about BJP and its evil intentions for the Indian muslims.

How the media plays Joker of the Indo - Pak Circus-
FV- These guys have been raving and ranting like jokers on the streets of Pakistan. The same natty anchor went to interview the street urchins playing cricket on the streets to get the “young voices”. They were asked whether they know Sachin . One kid said no. The other said yes. The anchor’s closing statement was- every Pakistani is looking forward to Indian team ..and all that crap!! I fail to understand why the stupid Indian journalists in Pakistan want to turn this into a mela and keep lying about the undercurrents.
And that headline regarding the film LoC - Who the hell is the Pakiland to tell us whether we should make films on terrorism or Kargil sponsored by them or not- why is the General ASHAMED and EMBARRASSED of his stupid acts getting exposed in the Public- the film LOC should be seen by all the Indians compulsarily- FV is right in stating that all this is a planned strategy to ignore Kargil while the Indians and Pakistanis played their games of peace? Yes, contemporary reality must leave some room for history.

It`s good to see Pakistani and Indian Leaders interacting but for how long? that is the real question ? after all this could be BJP`s one of those vote-attracion tactics? ahhh.. there goes my Pakistani-Doubting on India Sense.. I am confused whats happening to be honest! friends and relatives in high-up places says ` this is the last chance.. ma mala banta nazar aa raahaa hai` but who knows!!! thats what I heard back in Agra? and back in Lahore?
As a Pakistani who has links back in Fatehpur Sikri, I sure am concerned about my family relatives there and about Muslims back in India especially after post-Gujrat, last time I was in India was last year and all I saw was a new sense of hatred between Hindus and Muslims (thank you CM.Modi) the man who turned India from Secular to Religious...about Jamat-e-Islami is concerned `everyone knows how loyal Jamat is to Army is...after all who sponsered Qazi Saab`s son visa for USA?)...
I could conclude my reply with a prayer of peace...Insh`Allah there will be peace..!!!
Bush Blair Bhajpaye Bushraff Bin Laden Zinda Bad..!!!

Indian media tows their government agenda unquestionably. It has no character and no principles. Probably, they have been put in that position by the fascist policies of the current government of hindu religious nuts. What these nuts did to the journalists of Tehleka dot com and how they destroyed their lives for the crime of exposing the corruption of Army Generals and politicians who would sell their country for a prostitute and a thousand bucks has set an example for the rest of the journalists in India. And that is exactly the reason, even when something was not even happened yet, Indian media would blame it on Paksitan in the past - whether it was the hijacking of Indian airliners by their own government or attack on their own parliament by their own agents.

In the past few days these spineless and chracterless journalists and media were roaming in our country like they have come to their susraal. I am glad that these cockroaches and their genocidal maniacs of leaders are out of my country now.

Stay out!!!!!!

Great write up. More then a few home truths written here. Wonder if thin-skinned Desis will accept it.

...shouldn`t the FBI be looking for urstruly?...

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``How the media plays moll``: A case of the Kettle calling the pot black!

I guess some folks will always see the pot as half black (ooops empty).

Satire

FV,

General impression: someone seems sore about not participating in the junket :-).. kidding aside, the following statement is interesting:
``As a ‘secular Muslim’, I refuse the government in power the right to decide who should represent me``
Simple minded comment is that an elected govt. is kinda meant to represent people in a democracy (at least for a specific time) like it or not. Politicians will always attempt fill a void of representation, specially when they feel that a certain group is different enough and it feels that it lacks representation. This is what caste-reagional politics is all about. Yadav or Marathi parties succeed because certain politicians identified a niche they could fill. Its kind of like market economy. There is buyer and a supplier. If ``Secular Muslim`` is not a different enough caste, and representation for it is not a real market demand, then this pary will fail to take root, no matter how strong is the marketing campaign. My though is that ``Secular Muslims`` (whatever that is.. i guess it just means middle-professional class muslim) have pretty much similar representaional needs as rest of the non-muslim middle class.

[I keyed in my query: “What gives Pakistan the right to speak for Indian Muslims?” .....

My query about Pakistan and Indian Muslims was not a hollow one. On December 15, one headline screamed, “BJP plans ‘secular’ Muslim party”. As a ‘secular Muslim’, I refuse the government in power the right to decide who should represent me....

It is fascist for the Establishment to decide who must represent our ideology.]

Try telling that to the Jinnah-lovers!

[In a few days when they have got over the hangover (incidentally, Indian journalists have been proudly sending dispatches about sneaking in liquor), they will tell you about sounding a note of caution. Just how removed they are from reality is when they were shocked when they heard someone talk about, “Hindu pani, Muslim pani.”]

Aha! Now we know the meaning of ``Hindu pani, Musalman pani``. Musalman pani is jal-jeera and buttermilk and Hindu pani is Merlot and Drambuie (well, for some folks maybe arrack and IMFL -- that is `Indian Made Foreign Liquor` not `Indian Ma-ki-galli Liquor` though the latter is more appropriate). And all along I was thinking this had something to do with each group not wanting to use the lota used by the other!

[I will show you a recent letter in the newspapers that amazed me with its ‘logic’. The writer believes that if you find a place in the Indian cricket team even if you come from a state where your community has been persecuted with the active connivance of the government in power, then all is well with the world. It is “secular” intellectuals who have the audacity to malign the poor Gujarat government when Irfan Pathan, a teenager, the son of a maulvi who lives in a mosque can play cricket for the country.]

Well, I don`t know what else we can do. The President of the country is a Muslim. Some of the leading cricketeers now and in the past have been Muslims. Several judges of the Supreme Court and High Courts are Muslims. Do you really want us to bring back the jizya and forcible conversions to prove that we are Muslim-friendly? Or would you prefer the imposition of Sharia for criminal offenders of The True Faith?

[We have reports about how Indian hacks are being stopped in the street by ordinary people and told that they want peace. Yet, no one is going to ask them to relocate to Pakistan.]

It is nice to know that you harbor no illusions about Pakistan inviting you to reside there!

[How many are from the regional press, the small newspapers from towns in Muzzarfarnagar, Sopore, Tirunelvelli, Gadchiroli?]

I don`t know about Muzzarfarnagar, Sopore, and Gadchiroli but the newspaper coming out of Tirunelveli would be the `Dina Thanthi` which specializes in reporting on local news. They wouldn`t be able to locate Sri Lanka which is just across the Palk Straits on a map let alone Pakistan. Their idea of foreign news is ``Cold Wave in Chennai! Two Dead!! Bone Chilling Cold!!!`` Mercifully, they do stop at three exclamation marks.

Dear Farzana:
I missed the news about the BJP sponsoring a mulla party. Is this for real? If so, I think that they have very low opinion about the intelligence of muslim Indians and that they will not recognise that the real motive is to split the muslim vote. In the last elections, muslims voted selectively for whichever candidate had the best chance of beating the BJP and I dont see why they wont do the same again. If the party is serious about being inclusive, it should nominate muslim candidates in proportion to their population, just as it has done with the dalits, tribals and OBCs. But, then, how will it retain the support of its solid core?

arjun



http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/10/04/story25523.asp

It was a part of Indian act, you remember when India was gyrating its hips to seduce amrika...remember that?

Arjun:

``Did i miss anything? ``

Yup..you missed out on India Gyrating its hips but it is perfectly okay for Pakistan to help the US screw Mullah Taliban brothers. Check the Archives for Urstruly`s shopping list. :)

Via sulekha

http://indiareacts.com/fulldebate.asp?recno=799
Pakistan & Indian Muslims

There is no link between A.B.Vajpayee’s “success” in Islamabad and Muslim votes for the BJP, and no one should draw the link either.

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Re Arjun 16
``Did i miss anything? ``
Yes.

4. All the American and British newspapers are controlled secretly by Jews
5. All the international banks are controlled by Jews
6. Pakistan won the 1971 war but had to `surrender` East Pakistan due to `political` pressure
7. Every Hindu keeps awake at night weaving eleborate methods to tarnish the image of Pakistan and Muslims

Stuka #9,

can you point out some of the home truths in the article?

Seems to be Farzana will be unhappy even if BJP does whatever she wants them to do.

Farzana behan,

Lagta hai aap ki likhai hamare samajh ke baahar hai. Kitni baar bhi padoon mujhe yeh samajh mein nahin aata ki aap kisko gaali de rahin hai :)

Seriously, would you be really happy if BJP did away with all subsidies and stopped dealing with the mullahs?

It`s no surprise that the petty shopkeeper party doesn`t understand what secularism is. How can anyone claim to speak for hindus or muslims as a whole? The job of the government is to provide opportunities to all citizens (taking into account that some may need more help than others) paying no heed to their personal beliefs. Secular muslims don`t need muslims to represent them and the same goes for secular hindus. You can always reject the leaders chosen for you by not voting for them.
On this whole blowhotblowcold tamasha, Vajpayee comes across as unstable and given to big stints. How can any man shake hands with the engineer of Kargil repeatedly is beyond me. The poor jawans who were sent up cold mountains to die are being insulted again. It`s not peace this man desires, but a place in history the rest be damned. There`s absolutely nothing to suggest that things will be different this time around. Are there any secular media hacks questioning the logic of this foreign-policy-of-the-month strategy?

soysauce #27: ``How can any man shake hands with the engineer of Kargil repeatedly is beyond me.``

There is an Indian General, named General Chibber. He was the architect of India`s actions in Siachen. That is a conflict that was the pre-requisite for Kargil. And it is still going on.

Somewhere along the line, General Chibber, after retirement, decided to become an Indo-Pak peace activist. He visits Pakistan on tours. And is asked to speak on the subject. Many Pakistanis shake hands with him. Would you agree that they are wrong in shaking hands with him? Or are the correct?

There was an Indian lady named Indira Gandhi. She may have had something to do with the breakup of Pakistan and engineering an invasion of the whole country. How should Pakistanis treat her?

Why is it that Indians know so much about Kargil, yet never bother to mention any action in which India is the agressor? Shouldn`t objectivity demand that both sides` actions be considered equally?

MaheshG:

Let me state a basic home truth. You can look at Farzana`s article later.....

Was there a Muslim mass movement involving common Muslims in the Shah Bano case?

Was it not a ``secular`` Indian government that chose to, on its own free will, reject the decision of the Supreme court of India thereby pandering to the demands of a few Mullahs? And yet, who is/was maligned for the Sha Bano case? The common Muslim who had nothing whatsover to do with it.

The subsidies of the Haj are repeatedly cited as a major irritant in Hindu-Muslim relations and yet the author is asked if she will only be satisfied when all Haj subsides are removed? Seems to be a case of Heads I win, Tails you lose. Esp when no one mentions the subsidies given to Kailash Yatras.


Where is the lack of home truths here....

``Can India then be in a position to talk about the mullah stranglehold over Pakistan? Mr. Naidu has accused Sonia Gandhi of running away from the development debate when she made a plea for the unity of all secular parties in Aligarh. Does making Syed Ahmed Bukhari contest the next elections from Chandni Chowk or giving money to a religious organisation or involving imams in politics constitute ‘development’? ``

If I can see it, I am surprised you cannot?

If a Hindu was to write these words....

``The welfare of all citizens in a democracy rests on the government in power. The last time a party was formed for the welfare of a community, we had another country. ``

...he or she would be hailed a great nationalist. Yet, because Farzana writes it, no one recognizes the validity of the point???

I give the benefit of doubt to Chowkies. They roast, and deservedly so, authors like Angana Chatterjee who happen to be Hindus albeit of the Karl Marx variety. But I also believe, without a personal axe to grind, that the author of this article has been so demonized that simple home truth do tend to become complicated by preconcieved perceptions.

Regards

Soyasauce:

``How can any man shake hands with the engineer of Kargil repeatedly is beyond me. The poor jawans who were sent up cold mountains to die are being insulted again. It`s not peace this man desires, but a place in history the rest be damned.``

I disagree. But anyhow, why don`t you go beyond mere criticism and talk about what he should have done. My curiosity is piqued.

BTW, Indira Gandhi did shake hands with Bhutto. Zia used to get hugs from Zail Singh.

Stuka #29,

I guess you are correct. But I am really confused about where Farzana stands.

1) Does she or does she not want the subsidies to be stopped?

2) Does she or does she not want India to make peace with Pakistan?

3) Does she or does she not want India to reject the likes of Bukhari?

Urstruly #8,

I wonder where the rest of us would be without a beacon of humanity like
you around. Must be difficult to live in a world such as this (in a kafir land,
no less).

the pakistani establishment seems content, but farzana is not...the bjp has work to do..surprised?

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Shorn of all the euphoria created by peacenicks, I am sceptical if anything of substance has come out of SAARC. A realist should always focus on the essentials and the fundamental causes behind a certain problem. And I dont see any significant change in the ground realities to warrant optimism- at least from India`s perspective. The rivalary between India and Pak is rooted in history and the intractable hostility arising out of adverse religious perceptions. All other issues are mere symptoms, not the disease. May be some issues would be temporarily shelved for want of stability and economics but the ``fundamental causes`` are likely to manifest themselves in some other muted form in future or perhaps in the same form as now but with renewed intensity. Or perhaps the tidal waves of economics may mitigate these ``fundamental causes`` as a better off person has greater fear of losing his hard earned money to ideologies. May be, but more likely may not.

The best one can ever hope between India and Pak is a state of non-aggression, overt or covert. Any real peace can only arise out of fundamental shifts in the perception(religious) between Indian and Pakistani populations at large, not peacenicks. Things like these are very slow paced; perceptions rooted in centuries of hostility do not go away in decades.

I know I am being a spoilsport here, what will all the euphoric stories being weaved by the peacenicks in press. I hope to be wrong in this case but I am afraid my scepticism is rooted ``fundamental causes`` which are only too real. ``Hindu pani, Muslim pani`` is not totally fictictious.

What will all the India-Pakistan chowk warriors, cross-border spitters, and plain morons (``I was just following my governments propoganda line``) do once indo-pak relations are normalized?

Will they, like the japanese fool who continued his own one man war for 20 years after WWII was over, continue their spitting contests on chowk?

Will the change in their government`s policies so confuse them that they`ll all go berserk and start chewing on their keyboards?

Or will they, perhaps, actually learn to walk and talk like grown men?

Wait for the next exciting episode of .... ``My government`s propoganda line, right or wrong!!``

#28 by Romair on January 7, 2004 12:24pm PT

Where were you at the time the Paki army was bending before the feet of the Indian Generals while laying arms??

tahmed: ``What will all the India-Pakistan chowk warriors, cross-border spitters, and plain morons (``I was just following my governments propoganda line``) do once indo-pak relations are normalized?``

Every 4 months i drop by and find the same people passionately engaged in the same old boring discussions.

With the amount of time these idiots have dedicated to the ``my country is the coolest on earth`` debate, it seems they would go crazy if peace was established.

I however strongly suggest that even if peace is reached, (almost) everyone on chowk should meet somewhere in a kashmeri park and freely begin shooting eachother. I would kill to see all these pseudo S. Asian AMERICANS actuallty set foot in the region they cant stop blabbering about.

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arjun 24

``Security drill``, my ass. The hindu media was telling the size of the underwears the ``Pakistani`` hijakers and terrorists were wearing while the plane was still in the air. It was no security drill - it was an attempt at drilling insecurity into already prejudiced and venomous Hindu minds.

plats8

There is no need to be sarcastic, instead you should say what is on your mind. In my previous posts I was merely reminding us the ugliness of the hypocricsy and dishonesty that we as two people are capable of exhibiting towards each other. I was merely pointing out towards this mia kulpa of hindu media that has happened just overnight. Don`t you find it perplexing whether your media was telling the truth a few days ago or is it telling the truth now. Don`t you even question? Just a few days ago your media was portraying Paksitan and Islam as the source of all evil and now we are brothers?

Let me explain it by a parable. Once there was a man whose son got bit by a snake. The boy died. The man saw the snake and tried to kill but could only amputate its tail. The snake ran away. Both, the snake and that man were furious at their respective losses. After that, snake and that man tried several times to kill each other but neither could succeed. Years after that and tired of such perpetual hostility the snake offered the man truce. The man laughed and rejected snakes offer saying that as long as you remember your tail and I remember my son, there cannot be peace. Your nature will keep compelling you to bite me and mine will to crush your head.

Now, way the hatefilled and religiously prejudiced Indian media has changed its stance can only be compared to the shedding of snakes skin. The new skin may look pretty and enticing to some but most know that how deadly the venom it still has. The venom that spurs its nature to bite.

So my friend lets be honest with each other. As long as we will keep remembering our respective loses and miseries that they caused there cannot be peace. We cannot change our nature. Our nature can only be undone if our original grievances are undone first. You have to return our son and we have to return your tail. Unless we have a vision and courage to do so, there cannot be peace. Peace without justice is impossible.

Ref Urstruly#41

[``Security drill``, my ass.]

Me speak bad Angrezi. Do you say Airport Security drilled your ass? Please explain kindly. Thankoo.

Both countries aren`t relocating to some place else any time soon. Thus, they can`t live with each other and can`t live without each other. Both sides have made tremendous strides in making the other side trust it, so please let`s not dilute this optimism. Let`s not forget that both Vajapyee and Musharraf are responsible for where we are. It`s their peace efforts that have induced both sides to have interaction. I agree to an extent with #40 but I must correct you that not all people in Pakistan share hatred for India. There is certainly no shortage of those who are hostile towards India, but they are probably uneducated and religious fanatics, totally unaware of the history that both neighbors share. Indians and Pakistanis have a histroy together!

Pankaj
``Any real peace can only arise out of fundamental shifts in the perception(religious)``
This is very true. However, lack of overt-covert hostilities will have ensure that politicians seeking expediency will not fish in (communal) troubled water that easily (in India, its less an issue in Pakistan due to electoral irrelevance of minorities). That is the biggest potential peace dividend overall. The war of thousand cuts hurts the most in this area and not in troop deployments in Kashmir (as Romair thinks) viewed from a larger Indian context.

Ref stuka #29

[The subsidies of the Haj are repeatedly cited as a major irritant in Hindu-Muslim relations and yet the author is asked if she will only be satisfied when all Haj subsides are removed? Seems to be a case of Heads I win, Tails you lose. Esp when no one mentions the subsidies given to Kailash Yatras.]

STOP YOUR LIES RIGHT NOW.

I looked at the Ministry of External Affairs website dealing with the Kailash pilgrimage last year and it makes it very clear that the pilgrims are responsible for all travel expenditures and the the Government acts as a clearinghouse for Chinese visas and selects pilgrims by lottery. This information has been posted on Chowk before.

SO UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF SUBSIDIES FOR THE KAILAS-MANASAROVAR YATRA, YOU SHOULD STOP THIS FALSE PROPAGANDA IMMEDIATELY.

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Ref Maasanamuthu #27

[It`s no surprise that the petty shopkeeper party doesn`t understand what secularism is.]

We know what your brand of secularism is. It is eating at Iftar parties and saying ``Eating rice conjee is good for one`s health`` but deriding Hindu beliefs. It is presiding over a public meeting with a Bishop and a Mullah in atendance and saying that according to a Persian dictionary the word ``Hindu`` means a thief. It is calling the wearing of holy ash on one`s forehead a stupid superstition but saying that when DMK party hack PT Rajan does the same thing, it merely happens to be a family tradition.

Answer this question which of course your buddy K. Veeramani refused to answer: as an atheist do you believe that only Siva, Rama and Krishna do not exist but are creations of Brahmins to rule over the public or do you believe that Allah and Jehovah are also frauds foisted on the unsuspecting public by control freaks named Muhammad and Jesus respectively? Come on, tell us what you think. Others on Chowk have already challenged your intellectual honesty and this would be a great opportunity for you to prove that you have an iota of sincerity left in you.

[How can anyone claim to speak for hindus or muslims as a whole?]

But Dravidians is a different story. The Great Intellectual claimed to speak for all Dravidians and demanded a Dravida Nadu comprising of Andhra, Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu though there were no takers in any of the four states for secession from India.

[The job of the government is to provide opportunities to all citizens (taking into account that some may need more help than others) paying no heed to their personal beliefs.]

I like the way how you slipped in that bit about ``taking into account that some may need more help than others``. Are you talking about somebody who is handicapped in some way such as being affected by polio, rheumatic heart disease or congenital blindness? No, of course not. You are talking about the walking brain-dead such as yourself. Even better, you like the idea of stealing anything that might legitimately be set aside for the Dalits.

[Secular muslims don`t need muslims to represent them....]

Ha, ha, ha. Thanks for the laugh. Why don`t you tell this to Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion who ran Nagore Hanifa, a Tamil Muslim famous for his recording of Muslim devotional songs, as his party`s candidate in the Vaniyambadi constituency just because Muslims are in a majority (not just a plurality) in that place?

[..... and the same goes for secular hindus.]

Ho, ho, ho. Thanks for more laughs. Is that why the DMK puts up as candidates a Nadar in Tiruchendur, a Thevar in Ramanathapuram or a Vanniyar in South Arcot?

Hey, tell you what. Let us see if you will vote for a Brahmin candidate for election. I even got a name for you: Mani Shankar Aiyer. Yep, go vote for him in the next election.

[You can always reject the leaders chosen for you by not voting for them.]

But that would mean one would have to think. In your case, all your thoughts are nothing but the racist views of Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion.

Arjunm

``Terrorist State?`` What terrorist state? I think it is you hindus who have to get their heads out of their asses now. Once before I have interacted with you about your criteria of measuring the credibility of a state with the measuring tool of American approval. If this is the criteria we are going to use then probably you know that this terrorist state is one of the greatest recipient of American financial and military aid recently. The most interesting thing is the fact that this aid also includes an arms deal as well and even more inetersting is the fact that Americans will pay for this deal for next five years. Now just imagine that you go to a car dealership, chose a car and when you are ready to pay the dealer tells you that the car is on the house - no need to pay. Now imagine it starts happening at every store you go to and people tell you that there is no need to pay because everything is on the house. That is exactly what is happening to Paksitan at this moment. It`s debts are being paid off, arms are for free, and pocket money is on top of that. It doesn`t happen to terrorist states ok? Your banya mind should understand this logic very well. So, are the deals that are being offered to Paksitan are also being offered to India as well? No. Your approval rating and credibility is non existent if we use your criteria - well almost. Yes, India is being offered with arms deals as well but how. India will have to put probably 5 million additional prostitutes on the streets of Bombay and probably 10 million more people will have to live on the footpaths of Calcutta to put one Indian pilot behind one F-16, right? Now wake up and smell the coffee ( after you get your head out of your daal khor ass). And by the way some of the arms that are coming to Paksitan, are coming from S. Dakota. Read newspapers - not the hindu ones but the joos ones, ok?

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re:#49 by Urstruly
Mullahji,
If you do not hear (as i do) the cries of Mushy, the Supreme Mujahir whose GUBOed A$$ (GUBO for the uninitiated means: Grease Up Bend Over) has been rammed out of shape by Uncle Sam, it is not my fault.
But then, i hear your own A$$ has been hijacked.
My sympathes.
Sridhar

>>What will all the India-Pakistan chowk warriors, cross-border spitters, and plain morons (``I was just following my governments propoganda line``) do once indo-pak relations are normalized?

Will they, like the japanese fool who continued his own one man war for 20 years after WWII was over, continue their spitting contests on chowk?

Will the change in their government`s policies so confuse them that they`ll all go berserk and start chewing on their keyboards?

Or will they, perhaps, actually learn to walk and talk like grown men? <<

Couldn`t agree more. It`s amazing that for once there is being more sense shown by Indo/Pak politicians and the common man in our region than supposedly educated internet community. I haven`t been here long, but some of the idiots here seem to enjoy wallowing in the past 50 years of misery.

rsridhar

``...............has been rammed out of shape by Uncle Sam``

I don`t think so. The ground reality is that the US and other imperialist mercenaries would not last probably beyond a month in Afghanistan, without Pakistan`s helps. And without Paksitan`s help, it would be a miracle, if puppet regime in Kabul lasts more than 10 days in Kabul. Pakistan holds the keys to their survival and Americans know that very well, otherwise Americans are the people who would even sell their mothers if they see an opportunity to make a dollar somewhere lest they would provide financial and military cooperation to Paksitan without any interest of their own. Don`t you read newspapers; Paksitan has been supplying nuclear weapons technology to Lybia, Korea, and Iran - the axis of evil - and it didn`t even get a slap on the wrist. Wonderful, ain`t it? Now if this very fact sets the tails of hindus and jews on fire then it is not our fault. Who told them (US) to stick their finger where it didn`t belong. I guess it was you, hindus, right?

Harimau:

``
SO UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF SUBSIDIES FOR THE KAILAS-MANASAROVAR YATRA, YOU SHOULD STOP THIS FALSE PROPAGANDA IMMEDIATELY. ``

You don`t have to shout.....

http://www.parliamentofindia.nic.in/lsdeb/ls10/ses7/0526079301.htm

SHRI MOHAN RAWALE:

Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be pleased to state:

(a) whether the Government are providing any subsidy of monetary grant to pilgrims going abroad on religious pilgrimages;

(b) if so, the details thereof;

(c) the amount spent on such subsides/ grants durnig the last three years, year-wise and pilgrimage-wise;

(d) the norms prescribed for providing such subsidies;

(e)whether the Government have any plans

to review the scheme; and

(f) if so, the details thereof?

THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRA (SHRI DINESH SINGH): (a) to (b) Government of India have been providing organisation and logistical support to the Hindu/Sikh pilgrims visiting shrines in Pakistan: pilgrims visiting Kailash Mansarovar: and Mulsim pilgrims proceeding for Haj to Makkah. In the case of Haj pilgrims, besides the organisational assistance. Government have been arranging special fares both by sea and air.



So, yes, the subsidy provided is more in case o Haj travellers as Air Fair is fixed. Interestingly enough the BJP government INCREASED the amount of subsidy though there was no organized demand. (Just found this out from doing a google search)

Looks to me as a repeat of the Shah Bano case. Government proposes and appeases. Common Muslims get the stick from people like you though they are no party to the process in the first place.

Why ?

Harimau:

So when are you advising collective punishment for Hindus who vote for Muslim Appeasing politicians?

Govt under fire for tinkering with Haj subsidy

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, DECEMBER 23, 2003 02:15:02 AM ]
NEW DELHI : The traditional secular-communal fault-line today once again surfaced in the Lok Sabha with the opposition protesting against the government’s move to deny Haj subsidy to the creamy layer.


Congress and the opposition which raked up the Haj subsidy issue in the House saw Union civil aviation minister Rajiv Pratap Rudy sticking to the government’s stand that the rationalisation of subsidy will not be abandoned.

The opposition members kicked up a row when Mr Rudy repeated the three restrictions cleared by the Cabinet. “The subsidy for Haj pilgrimage can be availed of once in a lifetime; only those staying at the accommodation provided by the Haj committee would be eligible for subsidy and lastly income-tax payers would not be entitled for any subsidy,” the minister said even as his party colleagues insisted that no one should have any quarrel with these restrictions.

Mr Rudy said all the 72,000 Haj pilgrims going this year had been asked to file affidavits confirming whether they fulfilled the conditions and so far 55,000 of them had done so. He said affidavits could be filed after check-in at airports where notaries would be present to help them.

As expected, the opposition took strong exception to the government stand, and Congress chief whip Priyaranjan Dasmunsi described it as “absolutely improper” and said it was for the first time that such conditions have been imposed on the pilgrims. “The conduct of the government is condemnable,” he added.

Compared to the Rs 12,000 subsidy for Haj pilgrims, devotees visiting Kailash Mansarovar are given Rs 3,250. The amount is given to the Kumaon Vikas Madal for providing facilities to the Hindu pilgrims.


...I read thru the whole story. Not a single Muslim organization mentioned, not a single Muslim politician mentioned....why is that???

Interestingly enough...here`s another article...this time from a Muslim. Maybe he is friends with your driver??

Politics of Haj
Author: M A Siraj
Publication: The Times of India
Date: September 3, 2002

Introduction: Subsidy violates spirit of Islam
Subsidy may be a dirty word in the post-liberalisation era but the government continues to subsidise the air journey for the Haj pilgrimage for nearly 77,000 people who travel to Saudi Arabia every year from nearly 10 destinations in India. The government paid Rs 150 crore to Air-India for ferrying pilgrims for Haj 2002 (concluded in March) towards the subsidy it has been offering ever since sea voyages were replaced by the chartered flights around the end of the `80s.

A substantial section of Indian Muslims, including some MPs, has been opposing the subsidy on Haj. The opposition is on two counts. First, even from the Islamic point of view, state subsidy for Haj is untenable. The Koranic injunction is plain. One should perform Haj if he/she can afford the cost. And affordability includes the cost of the journey by contemporary means of travel. It was on the basis of this assumption that ship voyages were phased out 15 years ago at the behest of Saudi Arabia and air travel became the sole means.

Second, the Haj subsidy is one of the points on the list of myths propagated by the sangh parivar in their hate campaign against Muslims.

And unfortunately it is not a myth, but a sad reality which several Muslims are slowly realising and reluctantly questioning. Why should a secular state subsidise a pilgrimage when no Islamic government does so? There is a third angle too. Haj being a rich man`s ritual, the subsidy benefits the wealthy. It has encouraged them to go on the pilgrimage year after year. The Prophet himself performed it just once. A former central Haj committee chairman had once asked why a pilgrim needs a subsidy on the airfare to Jeddah when his baggage on the return journey is twice the weight he carries on the onward flights. That the Haj should become a camouflage for annual shopping trips for the rich Muslim is unacceptable.

A Haj pilgrim travelling from any point in India to Jeddah under the central Haj committee arrangements currently pays only Rs 12,000 towards airfare. This is far less than what one would pay for, say, a two-way air journey between Thiruvananthapuram and New Delhi. That is just one aspect. The dynamics of the Haj are such that flights that take pilgrims to Jeddah have to return empty and again fly empty to Jeddah after 40 days to bring the pilgrims back.

This would not be possible if the Haj were not so highly subsidised by the state. Undeniably, subsidy had a social purpose in the Indian context during the heyday of socialism. But subsidy for the Haj air journey could easily be categorised as fiscal profligacy This burden on the national exchequer is undesirable. A secular state could act as a facilitator for religious duties, can even make it cheaper, but in no way should be seen susbsidising sectarian rituals.

It also adds grist to the propaganda mill of the Hindutva lobby which sees the Haj subsidy as ``a tool of minority appeasement`` and demands subsidy for the Kailash Mansarovar Yatra to Tibet annually organised by the Central government. However unpalatable the language may be, there is some merit in the argument.

However, there exists a case for making Haj cheaper. In countries like Malaysia and Indonesia, the Haj boards mobilise savings from those aspiring to perform Haj. They invest the money in profitable ventures, disburse profits, take zakat out of the annual earnings and divert it for charitable purposes, charter planes, make bulk booking of dwellings and transport at holy sites. The Haj operations by Malaysia`s Tabung Haji, which even bagged the Magsaysay award for its exceptional services, need to be studied by the mandarins in the central Haj committee.

The committee being the biggest buyer of air tickets from Air-India could straightaway be granted a 33 per cent discount on fares. (There is a growing opinion that Haj flight operations and the subsidy are indirectly helping to keep the sagging economy of Air-India afloat and the company needs to come clean on this). Besides, the Haj committee could be given free hand in chartering flights and collecting excess baggage from the returning pilgrims. This will enable the central Haj committee to hire the services of international air carriers at much cheaper rates and, in all likelihood, the pilgrims would pay only 60 per cent of what a normal air journey to Jeddah costs.

Going a step further, the committee could also mobilise deposits, buy its own planes and lease them out to the national carrier during the non-Haj season. A proposal to this effect, i.e., to set up a Haj air corporation by some Muslim MPs has been submitted to the government.

The size of the official goodwill Haj delegation could be trimmed and more transparency could be introduced in the whole process in order to improve efficiency at all levels of the Haj administration.

The government would do well to set up a committee of well-meaning citizens in order to find out ways and means to make the Haj a cheaper and more pleasant exercise, remove subsidy and cap a source of competitive communalism.

Urstruly #49

Your analogy of car dealership does not fit. How many car dealerships are giving free cars to customers. The true analogy would be a `respectable` John and a prostitute. The John being the US government and the prostitute being the Pakistani army. The John enjoys and uses the postitute when he feels like it and compensates her for it. He disregards the unsavory aspects of it and even calls her dear. Also as a `respectible` citizen he contributes money for the rehablitations of the prostitutes. However once he had her for a while, he loses intertest and goes on to other things. In fact he may even go to the extent of punishing them if they don`t reform.

Re Mullah`s
``The ground reality is that the US and other imperialist mercenaries would not last probably beyond a month in Afghanistan, without Pakistan`s helps. And without Paksitan`s help, it would be a miracle, if puppet regime in Kabul lasts more than 10 days in Kabul.``

The veracity of that claim is as sterling as that of ``Tiger`` Niazi`s `Dhaka will fall over my dead body`. Or the more somber `One Pakistani soldier is equal to 10 Indian soldiers.` Or the even more colorful `Haske liya Pakistan, ladke lenge Hindustan`.

#30 stuka
Mushy was busy sabotaging the last serious peace effort. He has done nothing to earn india`s trust. If what`s motivating him is concern for his own life or external pressure, those are not good enough reasons for india to do deals with him. Once those contingencies wear off and his desire for peace is not sincere then any deals are not going to last.
More insidiously though, Vajpayee has been systematically legitimizing Mushy`s hijacking of pak polity. It has the effect of further strengethening pak military`s role in internal politics. This also works to India`s perpetual disadvantage vis-a-vis relations with Pak. We are telling the pakistanis, yes we agree that the military is your savior and they do represent you. India should insist that any peace talks will only take place with an elected civilian government. But then that might not happen in Vajpayee`s lifetime and he`s a man in a hurry...

You are right we and our allies would not last in Afghanistan beyond a month without Pakistan’s help, however a reminder Pakistan would not have lasted an Indian attack triggered by the parliament bombing, if we had not stepped in and held the Indians back. I don’t know what’s your origin, but those Pakistanis who think that their army is brave are under a delusion. Do you think an army can do two things at a time, govern and defend a country? If you ask a sane man the answer is hell no. So it’s quid pro quo between the Pakis and us. Sometimes I’m tempted to think it is Pakistan, who is the real problem rather than India or even Afghani Taliban. However, of course we can’t discipline Pakistan cause they’ve got the bomb, eh, Urstruly? Pakistan did get a slap on the wrist. Have not you heard that they questioned A.K. Khan over the allegations, and yeah do you still have those F-16’s that you paid for a long long time ago? Nope. So you got more than a slap on the wrist for that, eh? We stuck our finger in Afghanistan and are now in Iraq because we are bent on getting rid of those people who attacked us and killed our innocent citizens. (Of course you would say Jews did it or if that won’t work would say we had it coming because of who we are). If you can’t discern truth from fiction and blame everything on us (the United States) or Jews, what can my fellow Americans or I do? If I may suggest, you should begin reading unbiased newspapers. www.newyorktimes.com perhaps, but of course you would say it’s a Jewish newspaper, eh, right? Hope you don’t mind but are you an Islamic fundamentalist. The ones usually found in Saudi Arabia, vowing never to let women drive because they lack a penis. Never to let women go out without a chador, thus depicting them as black ghosts in a male chauvinist society, and here is a good one referring anyone to Koran who disputes the claim that women have to be covered up, right, Urstruly? Koran only preaches modesty and the meaning of modesty is subjective, eh, Urstruly? Is it not? Sorry I guess I said too much, just couldn’t contain my passion for some implicit truths and observations. No offense intended.

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I read posts #41, 42, 40 and think both sides are equally to blame. Urstruly would you deny that Pakistan has been backing insurgency into Indian Kashmir for over a decade? The only reason Pakistan had any ambition of acquiring the nukes was because of India. (By the way India got the nukes because of china, but that’s another story.) I don`t deny that India should have held plebiscite in Kashmir a long time ago, but if Pakistan demands that plebiscite take place only in Indian Kashmir then it’s not fair. Why does Pakistan assume that Azad Kashmir residents are going to stick with Pakistan and not opt for independence? I also think when negotiating, India should act like a ‘big brother’ and defer to Pakistan, since India is bigger in size and richer with resources. But Pakistan also has to show some flexibility, since India can’t just kneel, explicitly admit its mistakes without Pakistan admitting its, and hand Kashmir to Pakistan on a platter. As long as Pakistan does not confess its mistakes why should India? But there is good news and that is both countries are now on the verge of something critical and this time the credit goes to both Musharraf and Vajpayee. Political issues are not as easy as one might think. What’s easy is sticking to one’s own opinion and squirting at other’s, without admitting one’s own mistakes.

On a lighter note:

``Musharraf on the last day, during the last moments, astonished everyone by announcing that he would address a press conference. Indians perceived Musharraf as a person who is witty and thinks very quick. ‘He is the darling of Indian women,’ Vinod Sharma, political editor of Hindustan Times told TFT. Many female Indian journalists did not hesitate to admit that they were fascinated by his charismatic personality. ‘He is the most charming leader of Pakistan,’ remarked a young Indian journalist who had asked him when was he coming to India.`` (http://www.thefridaytimes.com/)

Apparently, Pakistanis still got it, big-time, in the looks department. Musharraf is probably considered one of the not-so-good looking leaders of Pakistan, within Pakistan. If he is the, ``darling of the Indian women,`` then imagine what will happen to the Indian women, if Imran Khan ever becomes President (or if Maulana Fazl-ur-Rahman decides to go clean-shaven. Or if Nawaz Sharif gets a hair trasplant. Or if Jamali decides to join a gym.)

IT, Pharmeceuticals, Tea and democratic systems are good, but they can only take a person so far. In the end, its the looks that get the girls (or the female journalists, as in this case).........

re: #63

...yes, i`m sure rajiv gandhi had a few words to say about zia the beauty too...

Right on sigalph235. More power to you, pal for your receptivity to what’s true. Yeah general Niazi was such an exaggerator, he could easily be friends with Republicans. People who make such exaggerated claims are nonsensical and in need of a reality check. It’s like saying somehow we are unique and others aren’t. And what happens when you go into battle? You get your ass kicked. (Bangladesh is a stark example, but let’s put a significant Indian role aside and face the facts. Pakistanis and Punjabis never treated Bengalis on par, never offered them dignity that would make them proud to be Pakistani citizens, and never made them think of themselves as a part of Pakistan. Pakistani leaders at that time were drunk on religious nationalism that religion alone would hold the two parts together. Well it didn’t. And then of course they make India a scapegoat for East Pakistan’s succession. Well for India you don’t get a chance to weaken your enemy everyday, huh? I’m sure Pakistan would have been a willing participant in similar circumstances) Once I over heard a man at a gathering during the beginning stages of the war in Afghanistan saying, ‘Americans can win the air battle, though their courage will be truly tested once they get on the ground because they don’t know the area.’ Well he acted like exaggerator Niazi. Did he think that we just go into battle without any goddamn preparation? Hell no. It has been over two years and we have improved the situation in Afghanistan that they now have a constitution. The point is first people who make such exaggerated claims are illiterate/ignorant, second they have some sense of divine intervention that we don’t have to buy a ticket we’ll just win if god-willing. lol. Good work #57.

Ref stuka #55

[Harimau:

So when are you advising collective punishment for Hindus who vote for Muslim Appeasing politicians?]

I advocated collective punishment for CRIMINAL ACTS involving murder and arson when you are unable to identify individual criminal elements in a mob, not political decisions. There is a difference.

[...I read thru the whole story. Not a single Muslim organization mentioned, not a single Muslim politician mentioned....why is that???]

It depends on what you read and what you WANT to read.

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/378356.cms

Subsidy restrictions disappoint Hajis

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 24, 2003 12:39:11 AM ]

HYDERABAD : Restrictions on the subsidy given to Hajis by the Central government have left prospective pilgrims disappointed. Till last year, Haj pilgrims were given a subsidy of Rs 20,000 on the air fare to Mecca .

This year, the Centre has decided not to give the subsidy to pilgrims who are IT payees, to those visiting Haj for the second time and to those who stay with their relatives or at Rubbac, the Hyderabad guesthouse in Mecca .

The state government had asked the Centre to relax the rules but the response has been negative, according to minority welfare minister N Md Farook.

The matter was broached again by the minister at a meeting of the State Haj Committee on Tuesday in the presence of the Central Haj Committee’s chief executive officer Abdul Rashid and the vice-chairpersons of the All-India Haj Committee, Sirajunnisa and Hasan Baqar Kazmi.

However, Rashid said the subsidy cut was a policy decision taken by the Centre and there was nothing he could do in the matter.

The State Haj Committee on its part decided to provide the pilgrims free accommodation and transport facilities to and from the airport. It will also provide free vaccination and help them in getting foreign exchange and necessary clearances.]

The disappointed Haj pilgrims, if I am not mistaken, belong to The True Faith. I am yet to see a Hindu, Parsi, Christian, Jew, Daoist, Buddhist (Zen or otherwise), or Animist being allowed into Mecca or Medina.

I am yet to encounter persons named Mohammad Farook, Abdul Rashid, Sirajunnissa or Hasan Baqar Kazmi among the followers of the above-mentioned religions.

[Interestingly enough...here`s another article...this time from a Muslim. Maybe he is friends with your driver??]

The committee of well-meaning citizens is what the Haj Committee of India is supposed to be. If they turn out to be self-serving politicians, you can blame that on 57 years of Butt-kissing.

As to the writer being friends with my driver, I consider it highly unlikely. I don`t believe he selects his friends on the basis of religion because he gets along very well with the Hindu driver we have.

re:#62 by jiyajale

Welcome to Chowk. I believe this is the first time i am interacting with you.
Urstruly is not a ``fundamentalist`` in the real sense. He does not have the guts to blow himself or others for a cause. He is too much of a coward for that. He is, what we call, a ``closet mullah``. It is all talk and nothing much else for him. From time to time he shows his true colors. And the guy hates India, US, Israel (not necessarily in that order) as nobody else.
Sridhar

re:#53 by Urstruly
USA`s policy is : talk soft but wield a big stick. That stick is not very visible.
God did not whisper into Mushy`s ears to compromise on Kashmir. I think USA`s role is unmistakable.
Of course, USA needs Pak`s co-opearation. If you are not hearing a lot of noise from US lawmakers, it is because Mushy did one more of his ``about turns`` and promised to co-operate with US in putting and end to terrorism. His joint statement with ABV should tell you something.
Why would US punish a dictator who is willing to co-operate? Nobody kills a golden goose.
Sridhar

My post #63 was regarding Urstruly# 53.

Ref stuka #54

[`` SO UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF SUBSIDIES FOR THE KAILAS-MANASAROVAR YATRA, YOU SHOULD STOP THIS FALSE PROPAGANDA IMMEDIATELY. ``

You don`t have to shout.....]

I shout because people like you are repeating this LIE to justify the Haj subsidy.

[THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRA (SHRI DINESH SINGH): (a) to (b) Government of India have been providing organisation and logistical support to the Hindu/Sikh pilgrims visiting shrines in Pakistan: pilgrims visiting Kailash Mansarovar: and Mulsim pilgrims proceeding for Haj to Makkah. In the case of Haj pilgrims, besides the organisational assistance. Government have been arranging special fares both by sea and air.

So, yes, the subsidy provided is more in case o Haj travellers as Air Fair is fixed. Interestingly enough the BJP government INCREASED the amount of subsidy though there was no organized demand. (Just found this out from doing a google search)]

I have actually queried tour operators in Bombay and gotten a 20-page document on how to go about signing up for the Manasarovar yatra and the document made it clear that one couldn`t expect any subsidy from any government agency. The Chinese government requires that all pilgrims must be selected/approved by the Government of India and they will issue visas only after this process. The Government of India, to ensure the pilgrims` safety, subjects them to a medical examination and then selects pilgrims in a randomized lottery.

Here is some more from a google site:

[The Ministry of External Affairs organises a pilgrimage from June to Sept. One should have attained the age of 18 years to apply. Because of the rush, those who have once visited the mount are advised to give way to fresh applicants. The Government-organised yatra takes 26 days - 18 days on foot. The yatris holding passports have to complete visa formalities and medical check-ups. For this purpose an extra four days` stay is required in New Delhi. For the year 2003, 16 batches of 44 pilgrims each were scheduled. The first batch was to leave New Delhi on May 30, 2003. (See Kailash yatra put off & latest report: China clears Kailash yatra)

Risks from altitude sickness and natural calamities have to be taken care of. The yatra involves trekking at altitudes of up to 19,500 ft. Those suffering from high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma, heart disease, epilepsy etc are advised not to undertake the yatra. The applicants have to submit a medical certificate.

The applications are submitted to the Under Secretary (China), Room No 271(A), South Block, Central Secretariat, Ministry of External Affairs, New Delhi-110 011. The applications for 2003 were accepted up to March 14. An amount of about Rs 46,000 will have to be paid towards yatra arrangements like transport, food, accommodation, medical check-up, visa etc. This does not include any extra personal expenditures like hiring a pony or shopping in China.]

So, WHAT is the subsidy?

[Looks to me as a repeat of the Shah Bano case. Government proposes and appeases. Common Muslims get the stick from people like you though they are no party to the process in the first place.

Why ?]

Did you carefully read that the Government of India suggests that those who have visited Mt. Kailash not apply again? Did you KNOW that when the suggestion was made that the Haj subsidy should be limited to first-time pilgrims to Mecca, the Haj Committee said that such a decision would be ``politicising the pilgrimage``?

Butt-kissing self-loathing people like you are the perfect example of spineless Hindus.

ahahahahah....arjun_m`s smacking urstruly around...

``Butt-kissing self-loathing people like you are the perfect example of spineless Hindus. ``

HAHAHA Arrogant Nazi loving Tam Brahms on the other hand are what Hindus should look up to huh? Dumbass.

You prove that money has to be paid for the Mansarovar Yatra. So what??? Money has to be paid for Haj as well. A subsidy is just that, a subsidy that reduces costs. You stioll gotta pay. A 20 page document from a tour operator says more than questions answered in parliament??


``amount of about Rs 46,000 will have to be paid towards yatra arrangements like transport, food, accommodation, medical check-up, visa etc``

How do u know the total cost is exactly that?? Rs 46000??? Maybe it is 49000. Maybe it is 55000. Why would the Minister of Externa Affairs lie? To put soothing balm on the sensitivites of Harimau Iyer?

Idiot.

Harimau

``I advocated collective punishment for CRIMINAL ACTS involving murder and arson when you are unable to identify individual criminal elements in a mob``

I see. So you would advocate using Canberras of the Indian Air Force to bomb Hindu neighborhoods in Gujarat? With friends like you, the Hindus have no need for enemies.

Thanks #66 rsridhar. All I attempt to do is be fair, honest, and if wrong admit the mistake. I am a big fan of Al Franken. I am sure you`ve heard of him. Well, hang in there buddy.

Sorry my post was 62 not 63 and it was regarding Urstruly #53. Aplogies to Romair

Romair,

Perhaps its time to tell you the truth about Imran Khan.

If you look at pictures of Daniel Pearl (http://www.danielpearl.org/)...you may be struck by his resemblence to Imran...minus the long hair off course. Sometime ago there was this Abdali character on chowk...who said pakistanis look like israelis.
He wasn`t kidding.

Its time to reveal the truth Romair...a lot of your countrymen have been fathered by jews...visiting from Israel.

Most people think Daniel Pearl was on a journalistic mission to pakistan. Hell!...Abdali knows better.
And no prizes for guessing why Pearl was murdered...!

But I digress. We were talking of Imran Khan.


Imran, as you well know, adored his mother shaukat khanum. He speaks about her in his autobigraphy and off course he built the cancer hospital in her memory...shaukat khanum cancer hospital.

Now if you read his autobiography (which I`m sure you did, being a big fan of Imran)...you may remember he writes that his mother told him repeatedly never ever to marry a western woman.
Now that may make you wonder...why he disobeyed and dishonoured the memory of his beloved mother????

The truth again for you Romair...on her deathbed, Imran`s mother revealed to him who his real father was!!!!

..and well, now you know why he married a jewish woman.



Epilogue:

The elder Pearl has 2 photos on his dressing table...Daniel and Imran.


P.S.
Abdali is not available for comments. He changed his name to Abdalnikoff and is currently in TelAviv searching for his roots.

“In the past few days these spineless and chracterless journalists and media were roaming in our country like they have come to their susraal. I am glad that these cockroaches and their genocidal maniacs of leaders are out of my country now.”

Urstruly Sahib, a classic example of your oeuvre, mashallah. Best regards.

Farzana Begum

``...the secular Muslims are just not interested in permitting clerics to be their voice.``

Well said!

``It is fascist for the Establishment to decide who must represent our ideology. ``

But very convenient, you must admit. Excellent piece.

Regards

Zafar

Before I respond to some queries, one correction. “Will those in such far-flung areas who have been separated by their relatives have it easy anymore?” should read from …I guess I am watching too many saas-bahu serials…or am I??

#1 by omar_r_quraishi:
[farzana, i`m just curious -- where do you live? as in i presume it`s India]

Must confess, I initially assumed there was sarcasm here :) I forgot that all I said was I am Indian Muslim. Yes, I do live in India.
- - -
#2 by nazarhayatkhan:
[In general, I liked the Indian media people. Their emphasis was on peace & future. They were quite critical of some of Indian Government policies in Kashmir - and most of all, did not brag about the Indian successes & power. They were mature & I give them high marks.]

The difference is you watch them on Pak TV, I watch them on Indian TV… for me any media person who has to, or chooses to, toe the establishment line for convenience rather than out of conviction has no currency. Just before the Saarc summit, I found the so-called secular newspapers writing edit after edit singing praises about the party in power. Therefore, I have my reasons for playing devil’s advocate.
- - -
#12 by harimau on January 7:
[Try telling that to the Jinnah-lovers!]

Totally out of context, this comment. And I am a Jinnah-admirer myself.

[Aha! Now we know the meaning of ``Hindu pani, Musalman pani``. Musalman pani is jal-jeera and buttermilk and Hindu pani is Merlot and Drambuie…And all along I was thinking this had something to do with each group not wanting to use the lota used by the other!]

Unless the Mussalman is in Tam-Brahm territory, like ‘Dublin’, Chennai! Re. lota, NRI’s should stay away from such references…woh tau pochtey hai:)…apologies to those who get offended by my scatological references…

[The President of the country is a Muslim. Some of the leading cricketeers now and in the past have been Muslims. Several judges of the Supreme Court and High Courts are Muslims. Do you really want us to bring back the jizya and forcible conversions to prove that we are Muslim-friendly? Or would you prefer the imposition of Sharia for criminal offenders of The True Faith?]

Again, what is the ref to the context? Where do jiziya and Sharia come in here? I was merely upset that someone could imagine that the country is doing a huge favour by including a Muslim, the son of a maulvi who lived in a mosque and was from Gujarat in the Indian cricket team. This was like giving special points to that state government.

[It is nice to know that you harbor no illusions about Pakistan inviting you to reside there!]

How you twist things…this remark was specifically directed at the Indians who ask a certain Muslim to relocate there. Anyway, am still waiting for my first-class returnticket and stay arrangements for Kabul…

And listen to Stuka.
- - -
#13 by jang:

[Simple minded comment is that an elected govt. is kinda meant to represent people in a democracy (at least for a specific time) like it or not. Politicians will always attempt fill a void of representation, specially when they feel that a certain group is different enough and it feels that it lacks representation.]

I do affirm that the government is supposed to represent its citizens, but it cannot form political parties for minority groups or those that lack representation. As I said, this is fascist. I find it ironical that a Hindutva party wants to help form a ‘secular Muslim’ party…tomorrow they will decide on a Hindu dalit party, a Bajrang Dal Christian party…if I oppose Hindutva, I oppose any religion-based political party, that too one that is being co-opted. However, if certain groups do need a voice, they better be in a position to find their own. Simple.

[There is buyer and a supplier.]

If I need to buy meat, I won’t go to a vegetable vendor…

[My though is that ``Secular Muslims`` (whatever that is.. i guess it just means middle-professional class muslim) have pretty much similar representaional needs as rest of the non-muslim middle class.]

True. So, if you agree with me, why are you quarrelling??
- - -
#14 by Satire on January:
[``How the media plays moll``: A case of the Kettle calling the pot black!]

If you use a carafe instead of a regular kettle, then you can afford to do so!
- - -
#15 by arjun_m on January 7”

[The Central government also plans to give a Rs.50 crore package to the Ajmer dargah.
++
And the problem with that is?
The Ajmer dargah, like the siddhivinayak temple in bombay, is visited by people from many religions.]

Hmm…this is wonderful, coming from you… people of all religions also powder their noses, so would the government please provide more…er…powder rooms? People of all religions need education, they need health, they need medical facilities…

PS: Thanks for putting in a word for me…the coffee at that place now costs only Rs.75 instead of 80 :)
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#17 by dost-mittar:
[I missed the news about the BJP sponsoring a mulla party. Is this for real? If so, I think that they have very low opinion about the intelligence of muslim Indians and that they will not recognise that the real motive is to split the muslim vote. In the last elections, muslims voted selectively for whichever candidate had the best chance of beating the BJP and I dont see why they wont do the same again.]

This is for real, as per the report. (Incidentally, I had sent in a letter to the paper saying precisely what I have written here, but it was not published.) I do not think it is a genuine desire for helping the Muslims. I maintain it was a pre-Saarc, pre-election populist announcement. However, it is also a smart move. You want to justify the existence of sadhus in politics, then include imams and maulvis too...
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#20 by MaheshG2:

[Farzana behan,
Lagta hai aap ki likhai hamare samajh ke baahar hai. Kitni baar bhi padoon mujhe yeh samajh mein nahin aata ki aap kisko gaali de rahin hai :)]

Aapko taajub hoga ke hum gaali khaaney ke aadee hai, dene ke nahin! Aur aap kyon humpar itne meherban ho rahe hai? Ab sab ko pataa chal jaayega ke itne ‘hits’ kahaan se aa rahe hai agar aap khuley aam bayaan kar dete hai ke aap issey baar-baar padh rahe hai…aur phir bhi samajh mein nahin aata? Ajeeb baat hai…agar nadee sookhi hai tau phir aap itney gehrey paani mein kaise doob gaye??? ;)

Seriously, why are you nitpicking?

Let me answer the queries in your other post:
[#33 by MaheshG2 on January 7, 2004 3:20pm PT
Stuka #29,
I guess you are correct. But I am really confused about where Farzana stands.]
1) Does she or does she not want the subsidies to be stopped?
2) Does she or does she not want India to make peace with Pakistan?
3) Does she or does she not want India to reject the likes of Bukhari?]

1.Yes. For all religious stuff. We have enough devotees in this country and their deen-bandhu outside to finance these.
2.She does not like war, mainly due to the decibel levels…for more info on her views re. peace read ‘The Big Turn On’.
3.She wants India to reject all religious leaders meddling in affairs of the state. This is why she is so against the saffron brigade, and not because the Hindus have a little more skin on them…

As for where she stands, at the moment on a cold marble floor.
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#29 by stuka:
[If a Hindu was to write these words....
``The welfare of all citizens in a democracy rests on the government in power. The last time a party was formed for the welfare of a community, we had another country. ``
...he or she would be hailed a great nationalist. Yet, because Farzana writes it, no one recognizes the validity of the point??? ]

So true! But I do not wish to be hailed as a ‘great nationalist’. The last one was Narendra Modi…let me be the simple Indian I am. I hope you don’t mind that I am a Cadillac Communist, though!
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#31 by rsaxena:
[the pakistani establishment seems content, but farzana is not...the bjp has work to do..surprised?]

I always knew you were in touch with the ISI…but now I also know you are facilitating the BJP’s ‘work’ as well :)
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#39 by DRUMZ:
[Every 4 months i drop by and find the