What is the Matrix?

Collectively talking, a good article. Using Matrix in one`s own way
Writer`s words
``directed to making``
Fourth form of verb after ``to``, Is it allowed in English?
Why only my error come to the eyes.

Farhan,

Interesting.

This article reminded me of a line from the movie The Matrix: ``Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that was seemed real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?``

In secular, not religious, terms, we are all like slaughtered chickens running around blindly and having no sense of purpose or even destiny.

I hope that someday something within man will awaken him to himself, and that one day this man will find his destiny, and who he is. And the day when man discovers himself, he will also discover as a necessary corrollary what his destiny is.

Take care.

We are being prepared for a Next Stage......



.....and believe me or Not As it does not matters..


...buts its from my personal experience.....

It`s elementary my dear SoulKeeper! I won`t go into the details of the creation of the Universe because honestly speaking from a sceintific point of view I`m not quite erudite in this subject. But what I do know and believe in is that we are human beings; a very superior ape with a powerful brain. We gave life to the lifeless, we used Nature, manipulated it and harnessed its powers. We know our limits. With all of these technological advancements we are also making ourselves vulnerable to the basic emotion of Fear. The more we learn the more complicated it gets, and it is this complication that is a challenge for some and a hindrance for others. To overcome it we need a resolute determination and sufficient knowledge to crack every code, to solve every problem. Our purpose is to exist on this planet, because we are here. And we are existing in a very, very extraordinary manner... IF you think of us as just a race of extremely intelligent apes! :-)

What do you think?

- M.F

Farhan:

Is there a purpose of human existence? (outside how it is defined by relegion, that is)

Curious,

SoulKeeper

ironman:

Going deeper...

Can `deep thinking` free me from the matrix (of my conditioning) ?

Is `thought` the tool ?

I think it depends on how strongly you believe in your new concept of reality.

Don`t THINK you are, KNOW you are! :-]

Azure:

Like any revolutionary personality, he broke through the tradional ways of thoughts and processes and brought forth an idea that was ahead of its time.

He helped form a new perception of looking at the world. That is what other Sufis have encouraged to do as well.

`` The Matrix gives you a choice though, to be the devils advocate or to play good guy. But whatever your choice might be, you`re still a prisoner of the Matrix, someone who has no control over himself and is actions. ``



.........God has created the whole universe...and he gave choice to mankind....either to follow the path of goodness....or evil......( Every religion/every school of thought says the same thing...) .....


so question..? `` Is God ``the Matrix`` or Matrix `TheGod`` or ....some one imagination inspired by watching the movie`s trilogy `` The Matrix ``......


....still trying to Find `` The One ``.....


...........It is Said in the Holy Books .....`` I am so near to you ....you cannot imagine how near I am...``

...so again `Question`` Do we Live in ` GOD``...


.....Scientist have Identified four Actual forces ......and Dr Abdus Salam got Noble Prize when he sort of Proved....the two of them are actually One...
.... a bit closer to the Unified Theory ......

......So Again Quesiton .......Are we trying to Identify God as a Physical manifestion....or at least as a understandable concept in terms of Force.....ie ..Is God .....`` The Force ..``


.....



......any brainstroming....!!!!!

Azure #26,

Again a good post from you.

``That too depends upon initial conditioning, the things the child learns at school, his parent`s stress on religion. Less exposure to knowledge, satisfaction with what is and not wanting more answers, and a feeling of superiority through strength of inner faith are some of the factors that make a person adamant and unshakable in his beliefs.Inquisitive and curious people usually venture into the `forbidden` and play with their own beliefs to find answers that have bothered them for sometime but have been looking for the tools to solve the problems, tools which they eventually find through sufficient learning. The other type of people who are not of the questioning type, don`t usually take interest in research and extraneous cerebration over things which are apparently beyond their reach and which according to them are irrelevant. So I think the trait varies in individuals.``


So we agree that people having `strength of inner faith` are the ones who are neither inquisitive nor curious.

These are the most `matrixed` people...who are not aware of their conditioning.

- - - - - - -

What we see is that this early childhood conditioning (as you correctly describe it), becomes a part of our psyche, our identity...it does not remain an abstract piece of knowledge.

In other words hinduism becomes a part of ME...like my arms and legs. I can no longer detach it as I can my body parts from me.

A joke about flying monkeys becomes a `personal` affront.

- - - - - - -


Going deeper...

Can `deep thinking` free me from the matrix (of my conditioning) ?

Is `thought` the tool ?

ironman:

That too depends upon initial conditioning, the things the child learns at school, his parent`s stress on religion. Less exposure to knowledge, satisfaction with what is and not wanting more answers, and a feeling of superiority through strength of inner faith are some of the factors that make a person adamant and unshakable in his beliefs. Inquisitive and curious people usually venture into the `forbidden` and play with their own beliefs to find answers that have bothered them for sometime but have been looking for the tools to solve the problems, tools which they eventually find through sufficient learning. The other type of people who are not of the questioning type, don`t usually take interest in research and extraneous cerebration over things which are apparently beyond their reach and which according to them are irrelevant. So I think the trait varies in individuals.


rozaiba:

Hmm... What did the Prophet break through?

Azure:

Of course preachiness stinks. From my understanding of mystics- who seemingly have broken from the matrix and have come back into it, the reason for coming back is the challenge to help others see a different perspective with the understanding that each person thinks and perceives according to their own individual capacities.

The tales of Mulla Nasirudin are meant to assist in breaking down the normal patterns of thought and perception imposed on us. Some say the Sufis could easily have preached rather than have hidden messages in the comical character and tales of Nasiruddin.

One cannot call Sultan Bahu or Mian Muhammad Bux`s poetry as preachiness. Those are words that are meant to show `the other side` but in a form better recognized by the average joe but with the knowledge that it won`t necessarily be understood by all- because as you point out

``So it is, in a way, foolish to tell everyone about something which is totally incomprehensible to the ordinary mind which never had any exposure to a different reality.``

Among others, the Prophet is seen as a person who came back after breaking through. :)

``We`re born with it man. And our belief, our faith is formed and strengthen by soceital influence, initial parental care and teaching, and the first things we learn about the world the moment we open our eyes and become truly conscious of our surroundings. A mother is the prime source of a childs primary education; her lap is where he learns the basics about his parents` religion, which he eventually has to adopt. He doesn`t have a choice in the beginning because he has no knowledge! What is pushed into his mind is what he is willing to believe, anything foreign would be considered hostile. With time and gradual learning he gets his own freedom, and only then he can make a choice, IF he really is free from all fear. And then he can say that Yes, I am a Muslim or I am a Hindu by my own personal consent!``

Azure, bravo! five stars to you.

But please explain: ``With time and gradual learning he gets his own freedom``.

99.99999% of hindus, muslims, christains, sikhs,etc prefer to stay in their childhood religion. How do you reconcile this fact with your theory of `gradual freedom`?

rozaiba:

Those many conspiracy theory sites on the internet and other literature written by disgruntled rebellious authors use the concept of the matrix in a really twisted way. But one point that everyone stresses on is that the one who breaks free from the matrix should not tell others that he has done so, neither should he go preaching around about the evils of the matrix. That is quite contrary to the analogy of a person seeing the world outside the cave and telling his friends about it. Instead, if we change that very analogy we could say that the escapee comes back in the cave, doesn`t tell his friends anything and returns to the free world outside. So it is, in a way, foolish to tell everyone about something which is totally incomprehensible to the ordinary mind which never had any exposure to a different reality.

I`ve read about sufi saints and mystics hiding in forests or other secluded places where they cannot be disturbed and can stay tuned with the Almighty in their own solitude. Is this selfishness? Or is this their way to tell people of how important freeing oneself from this materialistic world is? Religion encourages preaching, asceticism doesn`t, in my opinion.


ironman:

We`re born with it man. And our belief, our faith is formed and strengthen by soceital influence, initial parental care and teaching, and the first things we learn about the world the moment we open our eyes and become truly conscious of our surroundings. A mother is the prime source of a childs primary education; her lap is where he learns the basics about his parents` religion, which he eventually has to adopt. He doesn`t have a choice in the beginning because he has no knowledge! What is pushed into his mind is what he is willing to believe, anything foreign would be considered hostile. With time and gradual learning he gets his own freedom, and only then he can make a choice, IF he really is free from all fear. And then he can say that Yes, I am a Muslim or I am a Hindu by my own personal consent!

Azure,

``Religion though contributes a lot in supporting the Matrix, it does not inhibit completely a persons freedom of choice and his determination. To use Religion is tool for control over the masses is not right... religion is for the individual alone... personal faith.``

Sometime back I asked Urstruly a question. I`d like to ask you the same.

I`m a hindu and you are a muslim.
Are we so...by exercising our freedom of choice?

Urstruly said `yes`.

What do you think?

Azure:

You were reading Plato`s Republic I recall. Two quick points.

1) Remeber the analogy of the cave. Those who break free and are able to see the world from a different perception, when they come back and tell the others inside the cave of a different world, will be thought of as totally crazy.

2) Mystics say that the true challenge is not to merely become free from the confines of the structured patterns of society. But it is to become free of it and help show others this freedom.

Azure,
Thanks for clearing that up to Urstruly.

``...Yes Osama is the first to break free of the Matrix but is he the ONE. But he is just a symbol of protest against the status quo. The ONE will be the one who will tell all disposesd, the weak, the hungary, the tired, and the down trodden how to be self-aware; how to find his ``khuddi``. And when man will find his khuddi the Matrix will self-destruct.........``

Urstruly the methods of religious matrices are relevant only till that khudi is found. After that religion also gets relegated to the realm of matrices. Remember, there is no single orderly Matrix but matrices- there is no SINGLE divine architecture here- it is like internet- connected yet not orderly.- however, the commonality is that it is the WEB OF POWER- it is the Web designed to CONTROL the human bodies- through religious programming of the bodies, acculturation programming- running programms of Jihad in the minds of the guys so that they can try to send the message of domination of the Matrix over the other human bodies.

Osama was one of the agents of the religious matrices- he sent message of destruction to the other human bodies if they did not subject themselves to his type of matrix. Every matrix wants to dominate , take into POSSESSION more of the human bodies for subjugation- that is why I said it is like possession of the bodies by the Geist- once you understand this and let your ``KHUDI`` take over the control of your body , the matrix ceases to exist for you.This is the reality behind the matrices of power. To understand this is to achieve freedom!!

.

Farhan

I apologize for calling you Irfan in my last post - regret the error.

LOL!

jiyajale:

Would you please stop generalizing, unless you know everybody on this planet?

--> All I know and should know to make generalizations is that everyone on this planet is a human being.

Again how the hell do you know that everybody is doing all the above things. Again do not generalize.

--> And if I had NOT said what I have generalized here then it`s quite probably that you`d be saying the exact opposite of your said statement. So please, be honest with yourself first.

Get a life man. The more you think in like terms the more severe your disease may become. With such examples maybe you are implying there is an organization that controls the world and the personnel of such agency are all powerful to do whatever they like. It’s the imagination of the powerless, who don’t want to work in order to succeed.

--> I`m not actually IMPLYING that there is an organization working all around the world to control the underdeveloped, it`s the CONCEPT that has been put forth in an allegorical manner. I`m afraid you haven`t understood entirely what I have been trying to say. You might want to read Urstruly`s second post for clarification.

Yeah broke free from the matrix alright, huh. Dare I say, do you condone his murderous actions Mr. Farhan? Hope not. Mr. Farhan with all due respect, you must get your facts straight. Disguising your support for Osama under the veil of rhetoric won’t work with me. The religion of Islam does not call for actions like Osamas, but he has been able to use the same religion to convince some people to give up their lives. And for the record very few Muslims spoke against Osama’s actions. The entire world calls him a terrorist, a highjacker of an entire religion, and you call him someone, who tried to break free from the system. There are numerous other ways to break free from your so-called matrix (system) then ruthlessly killing people. I am glad you mention them at the end. But I think you somewhat believe that Jews or Americans are the problem. Therefore, you are now welcome to go on sprouting about how the Jews control the world and everything. I am waiting, ting, tong, ting, tong!

--> Man, you just don`t read properly do you. I wrote that he`s an evil rebel of an evil Matrix... wasn`t that enough to convey my meaning? And where did I mention Islam, Judaism or even the word Religion in the article? Osama Bin Laden is indeed a terorist, and the world hates him for what he has done, and I think those few lines I wrote explain that to a considerable extent. May I dare say that you my friend are a a confused component of the matrix too, with no clue about what someone says outside the box, or on the other side of the fence. All you have in mind is what your newspaper feeds your brain in the morning, what those many foriegn and domestic media reports on the internet or on the TV keep blabbing about, and what you have been fed ever since you became a conscious inhabitant of this planet. I in no way am condmening the Jews and Americans alone, but have written against all that are supporting, propagating and nourishing the Matrix with or without their own personal consent. Don`t jump to conclusions before you`ve understood what this matrix concept is all about.


ironman, that`s what I am talking about man... it`s the strength of their inner faith that distinguishes them from the ordinaries and agents of the matrix. Religion though contributes a lot in supporting the Matrix, it does not inhibit completely a persons freedom of choice and his determination. To use Religion is tool for control over the masses is not right... religion is for the individual alone... personal faith. And to use something as positive as that for constructive work, something which the Matrix has no right to object is indeed a means of breaking free from the Matrix... from the inside... though apparently that very person would be following the rules and regulations of the system that everyone else is following. :-]


- M.F

Azure,

Mother Teresa said she helped people because she sees jesus in them.

She helped people...not because she feels empathy, not because she`s moved by pity, not because they`re human beings...but because she sees JESUS in them.

I think people like St.Teresa are more `matrixed` than you and me.

Yet another looser drowning himself in self-pity. Bwaaahhhh.... bwaaaahhhhhhh....... bwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.............

“Greed for power and for money is so firmly established in your psyche thanks to the Matrix that your negative actions never seem to reflect your ideas and personality.” (Farhan)
Would you please stop generalizing, unless you know everybody on this planet?

“You complain about corruption, of bribery and ill management in Government institutions when you yourself are doing the same the very next day.” (Farhan)
Again how the hell do you know that everybody is doing all the above things. Again do not generalize.

“Why can`t you break out of it? Because you depend on the Matrix, and if you did break out of it somehow, the Matrix would tear you to shreds.” (Farhan)
This is creation of your imagination and only yours. World system would be a better word.

“The Intellegentsia and Pseudo-Intelligentsia is just another product of the Matrix, a necessity to keep the intelligent beings satisfied with their inflammatory statements against the working of the Matrix... but they can do nothing more than that. They sit around tables to discuss issues like Kashmir, Palestine, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and the rest, but because of the control of the Matrix over their minds they are not able to reach a practicable solution. The stronger components of the Matrix know what they are, and they control the rest through their power, be it evil or be it good. The world complains of their inane acts all around the world but they remain unabated. The walk around trampling the weaker ones, telling them that they`re out to save the world, when the only thing they`re doing is making the Matrix stronger and stronger.” (Farhan)
Get a life man. The more you think in like terms the more severe your disease may become. With such examples maybe you are implying there is an organization that controls the world and the personnel of such agency are all powerful to do whatever they like. It’s the imagination of the powerless, who don’t want to work in order to succeed.

“Osama Bin Laden. Wanted dead or alive for severe acts of terrorism. He broke free from the Matrix sometime ago, but not in a very good fashion. The Matrix is hunting him down. He`ll have a really bad end, just like Saddam Hussein. Even if he surrenders the Matrix would not treat him kindly. Osama Bin Laden is an evil rebel of an evil Matrix, and that leaves him no where.” (Farhan)
Yeah broke free from the matrix alright, huh. Dare I say, do you condone his murderous actions Mr. Farhan? Hope not. Mr. Farhan with all due respect, you must get your facts straight. Disguising your support for Osama under the veil of rhetoric won’t work with me. The religion of Islam does not call for actions like Osamas, but he has been able to use the same religion to convince some people to give up their lives. And for the record very few Muslims spoke against Osama’s actions. The entire world calls him a terrorist, a highjacker of an entire religion, and you call him someone, who tried to break free from the system. There are numerous other ways to break free from your so-called matrix (system) then ruthlessly killing people. I am glad you mention them at the end. But I think you somewhat believe that Jews or Americans are the problem. Therefore, you are now welcome to go on sprouting about how the Jews control the world and everything. I am waiting, ting, tong, ting, tong!

Urstruly, that`s an excellent description of the true nature of the Matrix. However, the Matrix that I have made here is somewhat different than the one you have described in the first part of your explanation, and later you pointed out the difference yourself. It was not an accident though, and the idea to use the original concept to describe the very reality that we live in had been in my mind for quite some time. The Matrix of our reality approximates to the Matrix defined by the Wachowski brothers, but has different components working in a similar fashion, different agents and dissimilar objectives. So the purpose of the article was not to use entirely the concept of the the Wachowski Matrix, but to give it a realistic enough appearance to fit with the real world, the world goverened by a Matrix that made Wachowski create a Matrix of their own!!


*scratches head*


jang, it has nothing to do with religion being a divine endeavor. If you ask me I`d say that it is more of a political business than a divine one nowadays!

Same whine, different bottle. As if an abstract god is not enough, you have to worry about an abstract evil and enjoy the wallow in self-pity. And no, you dare not bring in religion as a part of matrix, since matrix is a human endevour, whereas religion is devine, is that it?

I must admit that I am a bit behind times. Matrix--the video is sitting on the shelf. Everybody who has watched it must have been a bit shy to recommend it to this old geezer;though by some eavesdropping I did hear the oohs & aahs.

I`ll watch it prompto and THEN I`ll read this article. From the cursory reading & ensuing replies it seems I am missing out on a great contemporary metaphor.

And a great budding talent--Irfan.

P.S: www.yahyaharoon.com anyone?

Azure & 87msa

I think the very definition of Matrix eludes you both.

Allow me to explain:

In real world humans and a machines have a symbiotic relationship - both support each other - where man try to improve machines and in turn machines try to provide better service. Man does the creative thinking and machine aids in processing data to be more creative. In real world man has absolute control over machine to pull its plug.

In fictional world humans and machines also have a symbiotic relationship - both support each other. But in this world machines have total control over man. Machine depend on man`s creative thinking and in return man is rewarded with a life that he percieves only through the electrical impulses that machines generate. Man is grown in fileds like crops (an anology with production of machines on the assembly lines) and upon birth man is plugged to the machines. While man`s actual physical self lies in a ``pod-farm`` along with other human beings, only his brain is kept alive by machines by giving electrical signals to his brain. The concept is brilliant. Our brain processes info in the form of electrical signals. Thus if a signal resembling the taste of an apple is intrudoced to a man`s brain the brain would translate it as actually having consumed an apple. Thus the machines weave a tangled web where human beings are tied at its lattice feeding machines with their creativity while machines give them a life that they want in form of electrical signals. Machines have absolute control to pull any man`s plug as it deems fit. This web and its sybiotic relationship with the machines is the MATRIX.

Everybody is happy with this arrangement, except the people of zion who have understood the true meaning of freedom. This freedom is not by virtue of living inside the Matrix, relying on the happiness that Matrix provides in the form of electrical signals, but the true happiness is in living outside the matrix where perception of reality is through our own free senses. So the main idea is not only the freedom i.e. freedom to think but also that of having the control over machines - the control to pull the plug.

Keeping this in mind now we come to the real life again and see the point that Irfan is unwittingly trying to make. The Matrix that he refers to is not a Matrix between man and machine but it is a matrix between man and man. This is a matrix between usurpur and the disposesed; this is a matrix between weak and strong; this is a matrix between rich and poor. Unlike fictional man-machine matrix this matrix does not establish a symbiotic relationship, instead it forms a parasitic or viral relationship. This matrix survive on the blood of disposesd to give a new life to a usurper; this matrix feeds off the flesh of weak to make strong even stronger; this matrix seeks to destroy defenseless so that rich and strong thrive. The richer, stronger, and usurper part of the matrix do not reward weaker and disposesd with better life but seeks to destroy it just like parasite destroy its host when it has comletely drained the host. The world that this matrix has created obeys only the law of jungle; the law of might is right; where stronger nations make laws when laws benefit them and break laws when laws benefit them; where stronger nations define something one when it favors them but when same thing is applied to weaker nations the very definition changes.

The weak, the disposesd, and poor struggles to break free from this matrix but matrix tells him to obey the rules - the rules to maintain the status quo by sending agents and promoting agents like Terressa and Edhi telling its subjects that either accept this as the zenith of freedom or accept the rules of the jungle - get destroyed.

But it is not in the nature of man to accept the tyrranny of other.

Yes Osama is the first to break free of the Matrix but is he the ONE. But he is just a symbol of protest against the status quo. The ONE will be the one who will tell all disposesd, the weak, the hungary, the tired, and the down trodden how to be self-aware; how to find his ``khuddi``. And when man will find his khuddi the Matrix will self-destruct.

Thanks all!

Urstruly & 87msa:

Mother Teresa and Edhi are a part of the Matrix too, not doubt about it... but they`re like antibodies, fighting what is wrong and trying their best to fix everything. It is basically poverty, hunger, misery that the entire world is fighting for... either to stay away from it or to eradicate it. So any agent that might bring about a good change is positive.

We can confuse the concept of the Matrix and make it unmaginably complex. There can be multiple meanings of a single concept. This very article is a product of the Matrix.. and so are many other things. I guess we really have to be a Superman to break out of the system.

ballukhan, I deliberately kept Religion out of it, although it has a considerable effect on the working of the Matrix.

Thanks a lot ZahraJ, I fully agree with your thoughts... have read your message in the bio... will try my best! :-)


- M.F

Azure,

Hello. Points well brought up! Points well taken!

[You want to do something, you have the potential to help and to work for the benefit of the innocent, to bring everyone above the poverty line and to give women their due rights, you even talk about it during discussions... but sadly you`re never able to implement your ideas.]

In order to implement your own ideas, you need to form a strong support group and have people with the same level of conviction and belief. Also, eliminating the ones who do not believe in the constructive line of thought you possess, will be a great step towards getting rid of another kind of matrix.

[We dream of freedom, of nirvana and coming closer to the ultimate Creator without knowing that we are still inside this net, chained and gagged.]

This is very well put!

Reminded me of something very subtle that I observed recently amongst those who were chanting the lyrics of Gibran`s Prophet. I feel nauseated to even see human beings chanting what Almitra said to the rest of the world when the world continues to only appreciate the lyrics, the flow, the depth....but they are not capable of practising what`s stated so clearly. It`s just appreciation for the surface value. Going down a step or two will make humans cry in pain since it will mean letting go of things, liberating others and yourself of any attachments, standing on their own, realizing that they come alone and leave alone...I do not think that it`s fine to read Gibran`s school of thought to comfort one`s ego. Culturally, adopting that school of thought will mean something else.....Probably, that may mean getting a life for some :) ...

Good work!

Do read the little note I posted under your bio!

Bye Bye...

I have a similar thesis- could not work on it due to other preoccupations-

Religion is the biggest creator of these matrices- Religion is like a Geist which seeks possession of the human bodies- it replicates itself in the human bodies- it wants to keep itself and its memories alive in the form of rituals of collective histories of the bodies it possessed- it wants to brand the human bodies with its icons and marks such as tonsering, circumcision, plucking of hair from body parts- the Geist seeks control over the bodies - why?? because it seeks immortality (but only God is!!) - quite like the creature from the Alien movies- it tries to reproduce by taking the body as its host- and dis-posses these bodies of its own control.
Dispossessing the Geist from the bodies is the way to get out of the matrices.

farhan

wonderful work, incredible writing. Leep it up. Made my day

farhan

wonderful work, incredible writing. Leep it up. Made my day

Good work Farhan! Makes us think some other way.

I proud of you man. :)

Nice article, Farhan. The use of the Matrix as an analogy of Greed as some sort of evil force created by human beings is a bit farfetched for me personally. I think both love and greed are human emotions, feelings. Osama bin Laden, Edhi, Mother Teresa, MLK, Gandhi etc. They did not break away and escape your Matrix. They had the guts to stay within it, fight for love and face the consequences.
There is also a problem with the use of good and evil as adjectives. Isn`t that falling into the trap of the matrix. Some of the machines that form the most powerful components of your matrix are using good vs. evil arguments to further their own objectives.
And remember, Neo can only do that ``superman thing`` in the Matrix.

Excellent piece of writing. The juxtapositioning of facts over fiction are true to its core. However, I do not think that Edhi and Teressa are a very good example of breaking free from the Matrix. They are just another program - the lady in red - which Matrix wants us to see (or be). If one wants to break free of the matrix, soar high, and do the ``superman thing`` like Neo, he has to destroy the Matrix. What is superman thing? Nothing but ``khuddi ka sir-e-nihaaN, La ilaha il-Allah``.

Long live resistance.

this is actually quite wonderful. Seems like the fundos and the capies are really geting it bad here at chowk.