French Not the Only Offenders on Hijab

The most interesting aspect of such discussions related to the lives of Muslim women is the eerie silence of Muslim women.

Truly, Islam is little more than medieval thuggery. For people of conscience to not oppose this medieval thuggery is a moral crime.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/24/thai.monks/index.html

Thai monks slashed to death

The monks were each walking on their morning rounds of receiving alms when attackers, armed with long knives, approached on motorbikes.

---

And the worldwide peaceful living of Muslims with others continues....

When will any of you, born a Muslim, open your eyes to see the evil that Islam brings to human soul?

When will any of you, fortunate enough not to be born a Muslim, join hands to fight the Islamic evil that plagues the entire humanity today as our common challenge?

Urstruly:99
[...Last week they raided, Gestapo Style - the offices of a journalist in Ottawa who was trying to get to the truth. That ...]

---

Thanx Bro.

That brings to mind the yelpings of these chihuauas when that secularist/liberal scum Najam-sethi was roughed-up.

Are the arses of the lapdogs of western-thought so thoroughly greased that now, even if they yelp, no sound!

The lubed-sphincter cannot hold-tight and goes `mute`.

Worlds TOP boot-lickers of the west. INDIA & PAKISTAN
(Please fckk us--but speak only english when you do so)

---

Courtesy: Organiser, Media Watch, December 29, 2002

.............Tim Sebastian runs a programme called ``Hard Talk`` on BBC. Admittedly the does a good job. There are several of his kind in European countries and in the United States, but it is the BBC that is seen on Indian TV, which inevitably has made Sebastian a well-known face. Sebastian was in Mumbai the other day on an assignment. One would have thought that his arrival would at best be dismissed in one paragraph. But no, the English elite media fell head over heels in welcoming him. For nearly ten days he was constantly in the news as if he was some kind of celebrity. Had he visited Hong Kong or Shanghai or Beijing he would have been ignored totally. But in India he has to be made into some kind of hero. Bootlicking a white man is in Indian tradition. Just consider what news coverage Bill Gates got during his stay in India. In Mumbai both Gates and Sebastian were the talk of the town. Mumbai`s local celebrities wanted to be photographed with them. Poor Sebastian must have wondered what sort of country he was visiting. Can one ever imagine a Prannoy Roy or even lesser lights like Karan Thapar or Vir Sanghvi getting the kind of adulation even in Sri Lanka, let alone in the West? But then whose fault is it? Obviously of the English media, too often presided over by the `London-returned` or `Oxford-returned` and latterly of the `Harvard-returned` kind of bootlickers. Writes Gangadhar: ``If Indian media stalwarts were ready to sing the praise of Timji, they will surely get plum assignments from the (BBC) network which is now heavily India-oriented. New Delhi, for instance, is crawling with editors and former editors who would do anything to do a bit of lucrative `stringing` for the (British) Sunday Times or The Daily Telegraph.`` And for good measure Gangadhar added: ``If, by some miracle, Gen. Dyer came back to life, the Indian media would hero-worship him, feature him on Page 3 and recount his achievements over Jallianwallah Bagh. Former Governor Warren Hastings who faced impeachment in Britain for his corrupt dealings with the Indian princes would be lionized`` May be a little exaggerated, perhaps, but Gangadhar is right when he writes about the current crop of journalists whose colonial hangover continues to be a reality, fifty five years after the British left our shores. The Indian media still laps up stories of the sexual escapades of Princess Diana. In what way is she relevant to India, may one ask? The truth is that our media leaders seem to have little self-respect. When the European Union representative in Delhi issued a nasty attack on Gujarat and its Chief Minister Narendra Modi, The Times of India lapped it up instead of telling the representative to mind his own business and attend to the anti-Jewish activities of the EU`s member states. But no, The Times of India must respect the views of the white man. Fancy a Chinese newspaper permitting a foreigner`s anti-Chinese views to be published in its columns! Even for making fun of the newly-appointed Communist Party leader Hu Jiantao and calling him a `puppet` of his predecessor, the editor of a Southern China newspaper Shenzhen Weekly was sacked. The West fears China; but it has only contempt for India. And can anyone blame it for that?

Courtesy: Organiser, Media Watch, December 29, 2002

ajeet # 87

Sir I know of those values more than you do. I have faced baton charges for those values and my ribcage still hurts in michigan cold. In case you are into news, you must know that government of Canada is intimidating journalists who are trying to find truth in the Maher Ahrar case. Last week they raided, Gestapo Style - the offices of a journalist in Ottawa who was trying to get to the truth. That is how intimidation tactics work. You intimidate one jouranist and 10 others mend their ways. Sir, not only I know of these third world tactics but I have lived thru them. So refrain from lecturing me on what I know and what I dont ok

Echoboom

yaar, I have never seen people so amoral and unprincipled as that of Hindus (Pak Army excluded, because they are a different category). Just sometime ago these Hindus and other kalay angraiz (Pakistani variety) were doing their langoor naach chanting `kill taliban, `kill taliban` - reason: taliban impose dress code on women. And as their white masters do the same thing they kiss their thumbs and touch their eyes with them saying subhanallah, kia baat hay goray sahib ki.

Lahol wila quwaat.

Romair # 84

``I don`t know the details of the Sikh religion, but I assume the reason for the turban is that they have long hair. ``

No the reason for turban is sanitary not religious. It keeps the infection from spreading and keeps all the cooties inside.

Dear Hindus

You got your knickers in knots for nothing. Keep in mind that I did not write the BBC news article, I merely provided a link to it. The first picture in the article shows Indian soldiers after the restriction on make up was imposed (isn`t that the caption implies). I don`t see any woman soldier among them. Or are you trying to tell me that the soldiers in the picture are infact women but they are wearing mustaches? Even in that case I am not wrong. In the second picture an Indian soldier is shown doing `thumkas` wearing women`s undies. I think that is exactly what goverment of India has banned.

And rightly so.

If we look at your movies where your soldiers are shown kicking Pakistani butts, even there your officers and Jawans are shown doing thumkas like caberet dancers. THis is a conduct unbecoming of a soldier. I am glad that Indian goverment has banned it.

And I don`t know which snake crawled into your knickers, for me just posting a harmless BBC article. Aren`t your dieties Lord Ram and Lord Arjun shown in full make up; lipstick included; while they sit up on their chariots, on their way to committing biggest massacar in the history of mankind. What about Lord Krishna? Isn`t he a living example of easy breezy covergirl.

Like I said, do you have any deen imaan? any moral values at all?

IS FRENCH ISLAM IN FOR A FRENCH WHACKING?

Integration of Muslims into French society -- by whacking Islam to shape up to French specifications.....here is an article from IHT sent by Writers Forum

``Hello, To understand the French law on Hijab, me must understand the French history. Regards. Munir

---

The long, bloody path that led to French secularism
Diana Pinto IHT
Thursday, January 8, 2004
http://www.iht.com/cgi-bin/generic.cgi?
template=articleprint.tmplh&ArticleId=124072

Head scarves and history

PARIS President Jacques Chirac`s decision to call for a law banning the wearing of Muslim head scarves, Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses in France`s public schools has met with an unusual spate of British and American official and public criticism.

Seldom do nationals of one country meddle in the lawmaking decisions of another. The critics probably deemed that the integration of Muslims in Western societies was too global an issue to be mishandled.

Whether or not one agrees with Chirac`s decision, it is important to understand the historical and political reasons for it and above all to realize that many actively Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim French citizens supported the need for such a law.

In doing so, they were not - contrary to what has been said - singling out and disparaging Islam as an outsider religion.

They were fighting against their own powerful historical religious demons. From this perspective, they perceived the proposed law as a badly needed return to order after a decade when Islam had become in their eyes, a far too privileged interlocutor of the French state, even though

Muslims were in the front line of social and political prejudice.

To understand such a paradox, one must realize that a militantly secular and neutral French republic is perceived by most citizens as the only possible response to a long and tormented French political past, rife with religious tragedy, a story in which Islam is simply
the latest arrival.

Most religions have, at some point, come into conflict - and even war - with the French state, and been cast out of the French body politic.

The state has turned them into privileged interlocutors only after ``whacking them into shape,`` so to speak, in the interests of social and political order.

The Protestants were cast out first, with the massacre of Saint Barthélemy in 1572 and then the revocation of the Edict of Nantes in 1685.

The Catholics, after being declared the enemy of the Enlightenment, were persecuted after the French revolution and massacred in the Vendée at the height of the ensuing Terror.

The Jews, expelled in the Middle Ages and banned from core French lands for centuries, were persecuted in contemporary times through the racial laws of the Vichy state and then deported in the Holocaust.

In terms of being whacked into shape, the Protestants and the Jews were codified as religious bodies with no community status under Napoleon`s Concordat.

The Catholics were beaten into republican shape in 1905 with the separation of church and state under the Third Republic, which had elevated Jews and Protestants to positions of
prominence.

Given this turbulent past, it is easy to understand why so many French people rally around a secular republic as the only guarantor of national peace.

They are all too aware that their nation is a boat with a complex religious balance, one that could easily be upset with the arrival of a particularly unruly boisterous ``passenger,`` modern Islam.

In its contemporary demands, Islam has proven problematic for the French state, not because many consider it to be an ``outsider,`` non-European religion but because integrating it within the republic with in the spirit of today`s pluralist and multicultural outlook could awaken the jealousy of the other ``domesticated`` religions, which were
never given such a choice.

The result would be to threaten the entire French republican edifice.

Consequently, contemporary Muslim religious and cultural demands, whether in the shape of the Islamic head scarf, special treatment for girls in school, the right to bring in foreign imams or the right to have foreign-dominated groups represented in the new Islamic Council, are perceived as shocking.

That is why many French people feel that Islam is getting preferential treatment.

Islam`s demands, especially for those in the camp of laïcité, or secularism, are deemed to break the (often bitter) republican contract that other religions were forced to swallow in the past.

This is why many republican, Jewish and Christian elites, and a significant number of Muslims, are upset that the republic is paying so much attention to the Muslims in religious terms.

With religion and politics so intertwined in Islam, they fear that a Muslim political Trojan horse (and even a fundamentalist Islamic monster) has slipped unnoticed into the republic.

Hence their refusal of state attempts to channel religious identity into a new type of republican contract. They are convinced that such a religious openness is creating a problem rather than solving one.

It is too early to tell whether these secular forces in French society are right or wrong. With time, so-called backward, nonmulticultural France could be in the forefront of a new
intellectual current in Europe that will stress a shared future over any exaggerated ethnic and religious identity. Hence the danger of freezing the integration stopwatch with a law.

One thing is clear, however. Chirac was not condemning Islam to second-rate status within the French republic.

He was desperately playing with a Rubik`s cube of religious identities; by moving one square on one side, he ran the risk of changing the geometry of all the other sides. In speaking about France`s future, he was exorcising the ghosts of its painful past.

The writer, a historian and former consultant to the Council of Europe, is finishing a book titled ``The Wager: Reconciling Europe and the Jewish World in the 21st Century.``

---

WHATEVER......... BUT NO MASSACRES PLEASE.....

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

_digit #83
``You missed the point. If indeed you recognize the Muslim ‘nation’ as a whole, then you are effectively telling us Muslims to put our money where our mouth is. ``

It is absolutely irrelevant whether Muslims consider themselves as a nation or what I think of them as. The protestors all over the world who protest violations of Muslim womens rights in France donot protest violations of Muslim womens rights in Saudi Arabia and Iran, it is as simple as that.

By your nation, I mean Pakistanis who protest the French ban donot protest when the Taliban burn down girls` schools and then hide out in Pakistan under government protection.

Dragging me or what you say are my biases into the picture doesnot change these facts one whit.

``Protesting is a poor gauge of Muslim opinion, however you seem to be using it as the only standard. I think you’re keenly aware of this as well, however are not one too pass up a good ol’ danda. Perhaps I’m mistaken… ``

The lack of protest in the Muslim world is precisely the point here. You again trying to ascribe some sort of malign intent to me for mentioning what is already the subject of the article.

btw, I am interested to know, if protests are a poor gauge, what IS the proper gauge of Muslim opinion? What should the governments of France, Saudi Arabia and Iran consider the proper gauge of Muslim opinion?

``as far as the protests in the Muslim world are concerned, it’s more of a solidarity thing.``

Exactly. The Muslim world feels solidarity for French Muslim women, but feels no solidarity for Saudi or Iranian women.

``After all, regardless of your own principles, is it too much to ask for others to at least be consistent with their own proclaimed principles``

Why apply this only to the French government?

A number of Muslims keep saying how Saudi Arabia and Iran`s treatment of women is `not true Islam` while the governments and clerics of these countries proudly claim that such treatment of women constitutes the truest Islam there is. But let me guess, it IS too much for Muslims to ask the governments of Saudi Arabia and Iran to be consistent to their own proclaimed principles, correct?

And it is too much to expect those protestors to apply their same self-proclaimed standards to the French, Saudi Arabian and Iranian governments, correct?

jiyajale,

``Buddy i agree. As long there is reluctance among muslims to assimiliate, no matter in the states, canada or europe, this kind of shit-traps are going to come up. In the states, i see Christians, jews et al to accept each other. They go to each others` place of worship.``

Actually, I see Christians and even some Jews attend mosque services as part of this interfaith business...aside from that, they don`t really go to each other`s place of worship. Never known any of them to go to a Mandir, though...

Now, what do you mean by assimilate? Worshiping same God? Dressing same way? Having same values? Hell, these people don`t even have same values across generations for the most part, so what the hell is there to assimilate to? Same core values, or at least a promise not to subvert the status quo. Oops. That`s been done cross generations too...

How have Hindus assimilated and Muslims not?

Asimilation is understanding how a society works and how to make your way in it. You SOBs clearly have no clue.

Anyhow, Muslims remain proud to be such, and the last thing we need is to be taking advice from the Hindutva brigade on anything.

Stand true, and be honest...all will follow from that.

#72 by Urstruly,

``Does any one have an old picture of hindu army in full make up? I need it for my records. Thank you.``


Urstruly, I checked your request with the old-boys club of rajputana rifles and ...you`re in luck!...they are quite willing to have their picture taken in full makeup.

Only one problem. They insist on having their old .303s by their side in the picture. Unfortunately, during 1971, each of them had shoved their rifles up a pakistani POW`s rear as a parting gift.

So...the ball is in your court. If you can locate a few dozen POWs and pull out them rifles...you will be able to `update your records`.

No, no...don`t thank me. You`re welcome.

- - - - - -

But...pulling a rifle shoved into a paki soldier`s rear in 1971 can be troublesome. A lot of stuff went up there.

So, you`ll first have to pull out an american flag (with pole)...that went in just 2 years ago. Then a couple of bofors shells...those will be 5 years old. Then a couple of icy rocks from siachen.

...and then finally the said .303

If you keep going...you might even find ghaznavi`s sword at the far end! Gosh...what a find that would be!!

- - - - - - -

Now if all this makes you feel that a paki soldiers rear is a drafty and roomy place...where you can even hear an echo...you would be dead right!

Another name for a paki soldier is echo-bund.


Take care.

I agree with Romair...nothing is more obscene than black and white laws which have no room for deliberation and interpretation. The french law is as idiotic as sharia. Such myopic laws are the reason why the french and god need their head examined

Khushwant is not too far behind Khaled....

Assa Singh Ghuman, who teaches English at the Guru Nanak Khalsa College, Sultanpur-Lodhi (Kapurthala), has put all that is known about Lohri in his recently published Sundri Mundary Ho: Lohri day Lok Geet. Apparently, the central character of most Lohri songs is Dulla Bhatti, a Muslim highway robber who lived in Punjab during the reign of Emperor Akbar. Besides robbing the rich, he rescued Hindu girls being forcibly taken to be sold in slave market of the Middle East. He arranged their marriages to Hindu boys with Hindu rituals and provided them with dowries. Understandably, though a bandit, he became a hero of all Punjabis. So every other Lohri song has words to express gratitude to Dulla Bhatti:

Lohri songs are rhymed nonsense, at times very funny. For example:

Saalee paireen juttee

Jeevey Sahib dee kuttee

Kuttee no nikalya phoraa

Jeevey sahib add ghora

Ghorey uttay kaathee

Jeevey sahib da haathee

Haathee maarya padd

Dey maaee daanya da chajj

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040124/asp/opinion/story_2816036.asp