French Not the Only Offenders on Hijab

I don`t understand what is this big fuss all about. French government`s banning hijab is not a big news. The real big news is that Indian Army has banned its soldiers to wear lipsticks and make up. It is an absolute encroachment on personal freedom of a man. If a man wants to wear lipstick and still wants to be a soldier in Indian army then it should be his personal choice. I don`t undersatnd these BJP religious nuts, who imposed this ban on Indian soldiers. The hijra army was doing juts fine with lipstick and make up in Kashmir and Indian governement took all the fun away from them.


India`s lipstick-free army

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3421039.stm

Does any one have an old picture of hindu army in full make up? I need it for my records. Thank you.

Ref:#67
Are you serious?

#65 stuka


Saeed Naqvi

http://iecolumnists.expressindia.com/columnist_index.php?columnist_id=2

Renuka Narayan

http://iecolumnists.expressindia.com/columnist_index.php?columnist_id=21

BTW, notice that the indian culture commentators we are discussing consist of two muslims, a sikh and a south indian hindu woman.

Hmmmm, I wonder who is missing from this list...(:-

So in summary..

1. French did the ban because of saudi-paki-muslim cospiracy. The root cause was their discriminatory behavior and this is a genuine reaction out of fear of .

2. Saudi and French are similar. Both have weird bans. One on hijab, other on driving. You can protest in France.. and other french will call you backward. In other places, justice will be quick.

digit #59
``But, according to you nationalist types, I thought we Muslims were not supposed to have a pan-Islamist view of the world…I thought we were only meant to be concerned with our own nations. ``

Er the anti-woman stances of the Taliban WAS and continues to be very much a concern of `your own nation`. Those who burn girls schools in Afghanistan cannot be caught because they find refuge in Pakistan where friendly Pakistani provincial governments allow them to regroup.

``One issue has clearly been popularized, and those who protest it for the most part are affected by the ban. The other is a tangential issue that lies beyond their realm of concern or influence. Are you suggesting that I shouldn`t be able to protest the actions of my government because I did not protest against similar or worse actions by foreign governments? That`s absurd. ``

Exactly. What issues get popularized? What is considered tangential. Everyone makes their own choice about what they want to popularize and protest. That choice is indeed the subject of this article.

I can understand that Muslims in Western countries fear such bans would catch on in their own country and effect them personally, so they would protest these bans. In any case I don`t see the point of such a ban.

But the headscarf ban is not being solely protested as a mere lack of freedom to wear the headscarf, the ban is being protested in more universal terms of ``suppression of religious freedom and violation of human rights``, with appeals to the world`s ``conscience``.

For example, 100 students protested in Montreal too:
http://www.montrealmuslimnews.net/hijabvigil.htm

Sadia Virk, a Concordia University Student, stated that in solidarity with Muslims in France ``Jan 17th is an international day of protest against the hijab ban and people of conscience from all over the world are uniting today to protest against discriminatory laws which seeks to prohibit people from wearing religious attire.`` ...``

``...UMSA President Abdellah Ferron stated that ``we are here today to let the French government know that the Hijab ban goes against the freedom of religion and what France is doing violates people right to freedom and human rights.`` ...``


Protests all over the world:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-01/17/article09.shtml

``Some 400 people, 300 of them women, also demonstrated in the Palestinian West Bank city of Nablus to join the world protests against the move.

Protesters condemned the proposed ban as ``undemocratic`` and an ``attack on the Muslim woman.``..``


``In Khartoum, hundreds of Sudanese Muslim women joined a rally at the French Embassy, where they delivered a protest letter to Chirac.

``The decision by the French government has angered the Muslim women of the world, particularly in Sudan, as we are aware that the French government is committed to the French revolution principles of freedom, brotherhood and equality,`` it said...``

In other words, by casting this as a serious global issue, the protestors are laying themselves open to the question- if a French ban on government school premises is such a serious suppression of religious freedom and human rights of Muslim women that the world`s conscience should be awakened, then where do these protestors` own consciences stand, wrt the much worse situation of religious freedom, human rights, and choices of Muslim women in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Afghanistan?

If the French government is expected to take notice of these worldwide protests and modify their behaviour wrt Muslim women accordingly, why are the governments of Saudi Arabia andIran who are much more repressive towards Muslim women, NEVER subjected to such protests by these same protestors of conscience, in similar attempts to modify these governments` behaviour toward Muslim women?

100 people protesting is not really anything. One of the thing, I have been thinking for a while is gauging the Muslim` opinion and also gauging Pakistanis opinion about any matter. Here is the most simplified version of the equation:

PO_g= CN_g

whereas for Muslims

PO_m= CN_mZ_m

PO = Public Opinion; g = general world; m = muslim world; C = constant; N = number of people; Z = zeal

The zeal factor exists in rest of the world too, but Z factor among Muslims amplifies due to the indiffernce, hesitation, fear or cowardness of countering thoughts and actions.


The French proposed law is limited to public schools. It does not stop adult women from wearing it in public; it is not applicable to private schools. If some Muslims are so interested in hijab for their daughters, they should send them to private schools or open private school specially for hijabis. However, given the examples of Islamic schools - madrassahs, the education is not useful in career building outside Islamic teachings. I have never met a doctor, engineer or a scientist, who is the product of Islamic schooling.

Following is an article from BBC about the group that I think will be the most affected by this law. As mentioned earlier, scarves for Muslim girls (at least in my opinon) are more of a cultural and identify issue, rather than a religious one. However, in case of Sikhs, I believe it is a much stronger religious issue;

``French Sikhs defend the turban

By Ranvir Nayar in Paris

``Ultimately, if I have to choose between further studies or my turban, I will keep the turban.``

Fourteen-year-old Vikramjit Singh, who lives in suburban Paris, says giving up his studies would perhaps ruin his material life.

``But if I have to give up my turban, I am sacrificing my spiritual life. And that is totally unacceptable to me,`` he told BBC News Online.

For his age, Vikramjit, the son of a Sikh businessman, sounds extremely philosophical.

Yet, he has summarised the dilemma facing the estimated 15,000 Sikhs who live in and around Paris.

They are warily watching developments in France as Education Minister Luc Ferry prepares to introduce a law that will prohibit display of any religious symbols in state-run schools.

For Sikhs, wearing the turban is crucial to their religious identity.....``I went to five different institutes here. I was called for tests in each and everywhere I passed,`` he says.

``However, each time, the principals added a condition - that I have to take my turban off. And I flatly refused. So, here I am, unable to study, a victim of the law even before it is passed by the French parliament.`` (Complete article at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3403775.stm)

pmishra2:

Who are Saeed Naqvi and Renuka Narayan? Where can I read them? I read MJ Akbar in Dawn sometimes and Asian Age. Khuswant Singh is there on Hindustan Times.

#35 I`ll go with you man. Hopefully they wouldn`t chop our hands just becasue we dared to dream a synagogue in Saudi Arabia. God man, i just loath the Saudis that i call them ass-holes.

#36 That`s right bro. One of my professors said ``you can`t deny others what you seek for yourself.`` Inequakity is exactly what the Saudis and mullahs have sought and when FRance does the same thing it seems as if their ass is in fire.

#38 you`ve got issues man. All we know is that if men make it voluntary for women to wear hibab, only few women would do it.
It also seems to me that you`re one of those people, who would blame everything on the West, Christians, Jews et al, and renounce responsibility yourself. Though i could be wrong.

#53 Sorry, but i`ve to correct. Islam means SUBMISSION not peace. You can check on that. thanks.

Hey #53 in fact i could easily argue that Buddhism is not as good as but even better than islam, as it does not attempt to change its followers. All it says is do what the Buddha did, follow him. But in Islam an individual has to submit him/herself and give-in to the laws. Islam is discriminatory but not as much as Judaism or christianity.

I understand your point #54. But you must understand the France`s point. You must understand where the French are coming from: They have seen what the Taliban and the Saudis have done to women in their counries and they are appalled by it. Now as mentioned in my other posts, the French do not want to give a benefit of the doubt to a woman in hijab walking down the street. Why? Becasue they are fearful that her brother, or her husband, or her father has forced her to do it. So it is not as being a fanatic, it is just that the alternative appears so hauntingly vicious. (Sometimes i think the French went overboard with their decision on the scarves, but i guess since it`s their country, just like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan they reserve the right to say they would not allow this scarf drama in France). What can you do, huh.

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