French Not the Only Offenders on Hijab

This fundamental asymmetry flows through the arteries and veins, nay the very soul of Islam.
Extract the benefits of liberality of other` religion followers but coerce them if you can at every step!

Tarek,
You`re right. Any muslim who is offended by the French government`s plans to introduce this law should be offended by pretty much every muslim country where women`s rights are constantly flaunted (beyond the issue of wearing a hijab as well). I was offended because I thought the French government knew better.
I think most muslims need to reevaluate and re-interpret the treatment of women in Islam generally. Islam`s treatment of women is quoted as being fair and progressive by most Muslims. While this may be true for the seventh century, it no longer applies to modern times.

argument well put. muslims should not give apologetic defenses for forcing other to comply with their standards.

muslims all through have exploited the freedom offered in secular countries. There were so many posts on chowk claiming that islam is the fastest growing religion, but no one dares to mention that religious conversion is not permitted in islamic countries. Hence death is the only factor that can reduce thye number of muslims.
So many quote from monica lewinsky to mahatma gandhi to show that how great islam is. But not even a single muslim including tahmed never admitted that any other religion is at par with islam. Islam closes the minds of its followers.

The Islamic world itself represses those who don`t belong to it. What of the Christians targeted in Pakistan, and the age old buddhist idols that were destroyed at Bamiyan, Afghanistan - what could be a more notorious example than the constant bloody feud between the shiites and sunnis?

And yet we have the audacity to protest in the name of ``religious freedom``? I don`t support Chiraq`s decision, but the Muslim world has not quite maintained the reputation whereby it could protest against such a thing.

Yes, all are in the same boat.

Saudis are a**-holes period. The reason no muslim country has ever objected to their repression of women by the veil, is becaus they probably think Saudis know best. Muslim countries say, since the Saudis are from the land of Islam where Islam was born they probably know what we don`t. When i am not in a good mood, i say if these protesters are so fond of the scarves, why don`t they go to Saudi Arabia, . (Though deep down, i think the French action, against scarves was a bit too much. But on the other hand i can`t really blame them because the separation of church and state has been intertwined in French constitution since 1919 or 1921. i don`t the exact date). So i guess a six million muslim population is not gonna do much now to chnage any minds. Well if sraf-lovers really really and i mean really hate it, then pick up your veil, book a flight to Saudi Arabia, and leave. By the way you also can`t drive in Saudi Arabia unless you agree get a penis.

Tarek,

I agree in principle that there may be a bit of a duplicitous stance on the part of Muslims. I personally think conservative Muslims should feel vindicated by a secular, western nation behaving much like a Muslim state in the enforcement of dress codes. Note, though, that both Muslims and the French are for the most part making this something other than an issue of personal freedom - although the latter makes a nice stick to beat France with.

It seems that both Muslims and the French each view the other`s action as an attack on core values. Muslims see the French stance as an attack on Islam, and are questioning the French legislation along these lines. The French view the Hijab as an attack on Frances secularism. Neither see it as an issue involving `choice`. From this perspective, Muslims are not at all being duplicitous in their opposition to France, and simultaneous support for the enforcement of Hijab in some Muslim countries.

I personally think the Muslim position, duplicity aside, is stronger than the French. France`s claim that they are doing this to defend ``secularism`` is dubious. The fact that the very act of banning the Hijab on religious grounds implies that the government is not indifferent to religion...it is hostile to it. That is not what secularism advocates. Second, France is known to support and fund religious organizations. Ooops. So much for secularism. So what’s the deal?

There is an understanding that the ban on religious symbols (specifically and most importantly the Hijab - the Kippa was worn in France for the longest while without a peep from the ``defenders`` of secularism) is an attempt at integrating a large minority community with which the majority population is feeling rather anxious about. If this is indeed about making immigrants ``French``-like, then one has to question what is so un-French about the Hijab? Alas, that’s for the French to decide.

In principle, I must make it known that I have no problem with the ban. I would simply like a much better explanation for it than “we’re defending our secularism”, when clearly that’s not the case.

my friend your are rigt to some extent

yes because everyone has right to undress but no one has right to dress in fundamentalist style..

it is right for chiristan nuns to wear hijab ....... its modesty and purity

but it is wrong for a muslim women to wear hijab as per her own sweet will...... its fundo


oh dotnt be carried away by mighty media of,...........

``argument well put. muslims should not give apologetic defenses for forcing other to comply with their standards.`` Rozaiba #2

Are you suggesting that it is acceptable for Muslims to force others to comply with their standards. Have I misunderstood what you have said. Where does Islam condone force to ensure compliance.

``This fundamental asymmetry flows through the arteries and veins, nay the very soul of Islam. Extract the benefits of liberality of other` religion followers but coerce them if you can at every step! `` Inquirer #4

I`m sure it is very easy and satisfying to make this sweeping judgement, Sir. Are you speaking of the liberality of the Catholic Church, or jewish orthodoxy or perhaps the followers of Hindutva?

Yes, a large percentage of the muslim world fails to recognise women`s rights (amongst others) and it is about time things changed.

A French muslim girl, marching in Paris for her right to wear the Hijab is not responsible for the treatment of a woman in Saudi Arabia. By doing so she is not (if I may paraphrase you) ``...extracting the benefits of liberality of other religion`s followers but coercing them if she can at every step``. She is extracting the benefits of a so called secular society.

Such black and white arguments as you make are more fitting of appearing as a tabloid headline.

Yeah #6 right on the money. One my professors said, ``You can`t deny others what you seek for yourself.`` That`s all you need to know about Saudis. Now that the French have taken a bold decision it seems as if a fire has been lit under their ass. Hypcocrites, hypocrites, Saudis are hyppocrites.

``I think most muslims need to reevaluate and re-interpret the treatment of women in Islam generally. Islam`s treatment of women is quoted as being fair and progressive by most Muslims. While this may be true for the seventh century, it no longer applies to modern times`` (87msa)

Good job #3 I am all for re-interpretation. Not just women`s treatment but koran, law, mullahs, sharia as well. Rather thann going backwards muslims must reform Islam as a whole and move forward. Let me chime in with another comment, why don`t they understand that christians, jews et all scuceeded by reforming their respective religions. So they better move fast.

Come on #1 Jay. Muslims are allowed to be hypocrites, you know. All you really really need to know about Islam is to know its definition, which is submission. So even the stupidest person, in my opinion, would know that when you can convert other people and not allow others to convert your people, it is unfair. But pf course the muslims would say: we don`t allow conversion of muslims becasue our religiopn is the true religion. To which i will say f***k you. We are talking about fairness, but some wicked notion about truth.

The following doesnot apply to Indians who are Muslims.

``Why then are we not questioning the hijab laws of Saudi Arabia and Iran? ``

1. Because noone will question those who give them funds.
2. Because when the objective is worldwide rule of Sharia, it makes NO sense to protest the Sharia already in force in Saudi Arabia and Iran.
3. Because Muslims and nonMuslims must be judged by different standards, Muslims being the chosen people.
4. Because Muslim sovereignty is the basic human right. Where it is already in force, where is the question of human right violations?
5. Because of Palestine, Kashmir and Chechnya and other places where nonMuslims refuse to hand over sovereignty for Muslims to implement Sharia. France is one such frontier, Saudi Arabia and Iran are not.
6. The primary mobilizer among Pakistanis and certain Arabs is the Muslim-nonMuslim divide, `Muslim-nonMuslim frontier politics` being the only politics in operation in their countries. Saudi Arabia and Iran have no `Muslim-nonMuslim` frontier, the nonMuslims left long ago, and apostates are killed.
7. Its the power which the West wields which is the issue, a Caliphate should be wielding this power for Islam, not the infidel West, Jews, Hindus. This ban offers opportunity for yet another battle toward whittling down the power of the infidels, toward winning the final war against nonMuslims which Mahathir spoke about at the OIC summit. Meanwhile Saudi Arabia and Iran are already confessionally Caliphate-inclined, integrating them into the global Caliphate is matter of mere technicality in the end, so what is there to protest?

In fact, all of the above.

I agree #9 that it is very difficult to ascertain if a girl in hijab/burqa walking down the street is wearing hijab/burqa by her own choice or if some one has forced her to do it. But you see the problem is the IMAGE of ass-hole Taliban and ass-hole Saudis. This image has been engraved in the world`s psyche that they get very very and i mean very irritated when they see hijab/burqa in a staunchly secular coutnry such as France. They don`t want to give that girl in hijab/burqa a benefit of the doubt that she might be wearing the hijab/burqa by her own choice. See that`s the problem. I always put forward one solution: make hijab/burqa volunatry in all muslim countries and let`s see how many women choose to wear it.

Thi post is goood.