Letter to an American Muslim

#206 by tahmed32 on February 3, 2004 7:01am PT
That is the point- there are loonies on both the side- if Mush was ready to act imbecile so were the Generals on this side- thankfully we had the civilian government on this side with the nuclear trigger and the command in their hands- and fortunately the civilians have a better perspective of the reults of war than the imbecile Generals from both the sides.
That is why I said Mush was plain imbecile and was putting both the civilian populations at grave risks because the military hawks on this side were also willing to have a go but were restrained by the civilian government.

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ballukhan #204 Actions speak louder than words.

As for gen. padhawhatever`s words: any individual who talks about war as being ``jolly good`` has to be an idiot. No mature man, let alone a military man who should know something about the ugly realities of war, talks about war as if it is a sunday picnic.

Stop using terms like ``brilliant move`` for Mush`s belligerency- it was plain stupid , dangerous, imbecile, callous thing- Afterall it is the civilians who bear the brunt of the nuclear exchange- any one even thinking of this in the 21st century should be incarcerated to asylum- try saying this while sitting in Karachi or Lahore where you would be sure to be incinerated by the blast. Now it is clear where the WMD is in wrong hands- it is the Paki army!!
Sick!!!

#198 by tahmed32 on February 2, 2004 7:34am PT
``....Pakistan-India: Recent imporvements in relations seem to be based on solid underlying reasons - (a) A realization among the extremists in India that pakistan cannot be bullied (I believe the turning point came last year when the million man army was neutralized by musharaff`s brilliant moves in terms of referring to the nuclear option and carrying out a few well timed missile tests)......``

I think we had some discussions on that - if it makes you feel good so be it- but remember , all this first-use posturing can be dangerously counter-productive if some one is to call the bluff- The Indians were ready to mow Mush down even with his belligerent acts- I do not think there can be a better opinion from the Indian side on your nuclear bluff than this- I would suggest you stop getting worked over the 1971 experience-
Read this-

We had Pakistan by the tail: Ex-Army chief

PTI[ MONDAY, FEBRUARY 02, 2004 07:59:13 PM ]

NEW DELHI: In a throwback to the days of Indo-Pak tensions following the terror attack on Parliament, the then Army Chief Gen S Padmanabhan today said ``favourable circumstances and tides`` were allowed to ``pass`` during the year-long full-fledged army deployment in Operation Parakram which was ``conceived for specific operational purposes``.
Strongly rebutting a suggestion that Pakistan`s nuclear deterrence had acted as a ``dampener`` to any cross border operations by India, he said, ``Pakistan`s response had been adequately studied and factored in. No, they had nothing. We had them by the tail``.

The former Army Chief was speaking to reporters about his yet-to-be-released book India Checkmates America 2017`

While refusing to go into specific war plans saying that service restrictions did not allow him to disclose them, he said that during the operation ``circumstances and tides were very favourable to India. They passed time and again``.

He said Op Parakram deployment was ``cogent`` and in place by January 8 and said whether to launch or not to launch operations was political.

Asked if US intervention had stalled the operations at the last moment, Padmanabhan said, ``I would not like to talk about it``.

For the first time, the former army chief said that during the operation even army commanders were not given the nuclear button which remained with the Chairman, Chief of Staff Committee who held it for political high command.

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Tauheed at 198:

Pak-Afghan border & Glory Days

You wrote a very detailed post on future outlook for Pakistan ;-). I would just like to add a few relevant points:

1. The most promising projects started by the current Government are those of Gwader Port and coastal highways connecting Makran coast with Karachi. There are reports that the businessmen of Dubai have already started purchasing industrial plots near the phase 1 of Gwader Post so much so that Dubai`s Government is in a bit of quandry and therefore, its offering real estate to expatriates in earnest.

2. The highways under construction that will eventually connect southern Afghanistan with Arabian Sea will make Pakistan a major beneficiary of economic development of Afghanistan.

3. Strangely enough, the projects in Afghanistan in those fields are being awarded to Pakistan where historically we have been weak. These include IT, railways, education, banking, etc.

4. The critical situation for Pakistan comes from issuance of travel advisories by the USA/UK at the very points when we need foreign visitors in Pakistan. The current advisory has been issued when there are couple of industrial exhibitions and some spring festivals, most notably Lahore`s Jashan-e-Baharan, slated to begin now.

5. But the most fundamental change that I see is in our business community. They have become very export-aware. Previously, no body thought about exporting their produce. But now every businessmen has one thing on mind - to take his product or service abroad.

However, there is one major need in the country - to take our people out of state of despair and pessimism (many Pakistanis on Chowk also tend to paint a doom and gloom picture that supports the view of resident fundoo Indoos here). People have to be given a feeling of hope and optimism. The independent TV channels are doing every bit on this front, because feeling of feeling good in itself is to their own benefit (it increases consumer spending that brings advertisements to the channels). There is a need for much more in this respect.

ballukhan at 197:

I have no problems in agreeing with your message.

Aleph Null # 177

I think i have addressed all your points in my post addressed to Ironman, as well.

ahmedzai #193 I had responded to this post but looks like it got lost in Chowk. So am re-writing my take on the three issues you mention which indeed are significant ones for pakistan today.

1. Pak-Afghan border: With pakistan forces for the first time exercising the writ of the federal government in the tribal areas, and with massive investments financed by the US and other rich countries now taking place in building roads and schools in these areas, we should see the end of al qaeda terrorists and of mullah rule in these areas. Afghan complaint of cross-border incursions should therefore diminish.
Interestingly, the Afghan economy got a jump start last year and rose by 30 percent!! Next year it is expected to grow by another 20 percent. And from all indications, the international community is in Afghanistan for the long haul. Thus, Afghanistan could very well emerge in about 10 years as another Dubai (this is a pipe dream right now, but certainly within the realm of possibility).

2. LFO: With MMA already on board LFO (per the agreement last month), it seems that this issue is resolved for the time being and the legislature can now function. And if PPP and PML(N) are not on board on this issue - that simply makes them irrelevant. The important thing is that public opinion is largely supportive of the manner in which LFO has been resolved, given that for now musharaff is the only viable leader on the pakistani political horizon.

3. Pakistan-India: Recent imporvements in relations seem to be based on solid underlying reasons - (a) A realization among the extremists in India that pakistan cannot be bullied (I believe the turning point came last year when the million man army was neutralized by musharaff`s brilliant moves in terms of referring to the nuclear option and carrying out a few well timed missile tests). (b) A strong public resentment against militarists in pakistan who are seen as using the kashmir dispute as a reason to enrich themselves. (c) A general desire for peace and friendship among people in both countries, and a realization that both countries have a joint economic stake in a peaceful and progressive South Asia.

So, things have never looked better for pakistan since the ``glory days`` of 1960-65 (for those of us who are old enough to have lived through that time) when Pakistan was considered by economists to be the model developing country.

#186 by ahmadzai on February 1, 2004 7:05am PT
``..but the problem is that when you have them on your side, there is no guarantee that they will continue to follow the route you want to take them. The ``Jihad`` begins to follow its own dynamism. The ``Jihadis`` soon tend to become independent and by refusing to listen to the State, end up becoming terrorists..``
This exacly what I have been saying all along- FORGET these Islamic theologians, Jehadis and cut the roots of these idiots by embracing SECULARISM in state matters- let Islam be confined to our religious and spiritual practices and stop this political variety of Islam from entering our lives for ever- Islam should be interpreted by Ummah as a way to spiritual fulfilment and not as a route to temporal power.

``tahmed32`` #195 I did NOT write that post.

Chowk staff to please stop trying to being funny. ;-)

MacGupta,

Thanks for explicating where I`m coming from.

Right now, I `m looking at some Composition Theory essays in which hard science profs describe how they use creative writing in assigning papers that will determine whether their students are really understanding their course work or merely parroting the text book. These kinds of intersections serve to clear up these field elitisms-the really innovative theorists/scientists/writers are those who extend themselves into many spheres of knowledge making.

malik #192 You need not be aghast: this is what you wrote ``imagine your brother`s throat is being sliced by another man...Regarding your suggestion that I did not answer the question regarding Jihad...Quran has talked about this topic in detail.`` I will agree that you did not explicitly say that 9/11 was justified, but it does seem to me that given the context of the discussion you were implying that the Quran justified 9/11. However, if now you say that you did not mean to imply this, I will take you at your word and assume that you are of the view that the killing of innocent people (as happened on 9/11) is a violation of the basic message of Islam. It would help if you wrote more explicitly, rather than making vague innuendoes. The deliberate killing of innocent people is clearly a one-way ticket to hell for the killer per our muslim belief, no ifs and buts. As bin laden and his followers and supporters are no doubt going to find out when God`s justice finally catches up with them.

I see that in order to make me understand how badly your feelings were hurt you prepared a misrapresentation of my views. :-) So let me for the record say that what you attribute to me is incorrect and indeed the opposite of what I have always said on Chowk. That is, I have always held (on the basis of the Quran) that you can be of any religion and still go to heaven or hell depending on your actions.

Tauheed at 191:

``And incidentally, the best way to get rid of an enemy is to make it a friend. In this sense I am 100 percent behind musharaff in his peace efforts with India.``

There was a good debate on GEO TV the other day, where the participants were discussing the 3 destabilizing events that were hurting Pakistan at that time. Those were:

1. Pak-Afghan border where the Afghan Government was accusing Pakistan of supporting Taliban activity from across the border.

2. LFO situation

3. Pakistan-India war of words.

The compere asked the participants what are the measures that the Government could take to stabilize the country. Mushahid Hussain had a very interesting point to make. He said that the Afghan situation would continue for a long time, therefore, the Government should try to diffuse the situation with India and opposition on matter of LFO. This was interesting, because everyone would have thought that he would pick Afghanistan and LFO situation to tackle to confront India.