Letter to an American Muslim

tahmed32 #185 - You wrote:

``I will not let you hide behind the cover of the Quran to justify the evil deeds of 9/11``.

I am aghast. How did you ever come up with that kind of accusation! Nowhere in my postings did i ever justify 9/11 or even suugested that it is Jihad. Infact I purposefuly did not even mention the ``Jihad with sword`` because there is a long list of circumstances, and pre-conditions (including self defense) that need to be in place before you take that Jihad.

Let me try to get even. Mr Tahmed32, I am surprised at your posting that anyone who is not a muslim will burn in hell.

You see what i mean?

EID MUBARAK to all chowkies.


Ahmedzai #186 I agree with most of what you write. However, on the question of Pakistan`s defense, I would like to add to what you say as being my view (or, to be more accurate, my two cents worth): namely, a small, well equipped army. That is, by small I mean about 150,000 and not 400,000. With a far higher tooth-to-tail ratio (i.e. more soldiers and junior officers in the battlefield, fewer generals and staff positions). AND (very importantly) this military would supported by a nuclear weapons with multiple delivery capacity that we already have: medium range missiles, plus nuclear submarines, plus tactical use in the battlefield to wipe out conventional military attacks.

A professional military that is focussed on the defense of pakistan (and not on adminstering coup d`etat`s and in enriching generals) would restore the pride we pakistanis once rightly had in our military. If you were around when we had the outpouring of patriotism and pride that pakistanis displayed for our military in 1965 - when the nation stood as one in the defense of Pakistan - you will know what i mean.

And incidentally, the best way to get rid of an enemy is to make it a friend. In this sense I am 100 percent behind musharaff in his peace efforts with India.

Peace with strength is the only long term guarantee of the rights and dignity of the Pakistani people.

why is hamidm waging a lonely battle against the urstrulys and romairs here

OK I don`t know whether this qualifies as a step towards maintaining positive attitude towards America or not, but I would just like to tell Chowkies living in Pakistan to avail the chance of winning many gifts while eating at Pizza Hut. The franchise is celebrating its 10th anniversary of operations in the country.

And this reminds me to remind Pakistanis living in the country to educate extremists amongst our folds against boycotting American franchise products and services. You tend to run into a couple of them in a gathering of 300 to 400 (usually) at marriage ceremonies advocating boycott of American products. These brainless soules need to be told that if Pakistani products are boycotted by Americans, then our paltry exports will crumble to almost zilch.

HisExcellency at # 155:

``Let`s give Masud due credit for his role in the Jehad. But let`s not deprecate the larger role played by Hekmatyar, Sayyaf, Dostum, Rabbani, Khalis, Qazi and Fazlur Rehman by calling Masud the ``leading figure in the anti-soviet struggle``. ``

You are right when you said that the main Jihad was waged by the Pakhtoons and Hazaras. Where I beg to differ is that Masud was a Commander. Many Mujahideens had reported that he was a goon who was charging the real fighters hefty sums of money for crossing his Panjshir Valley to strike against Soviet interests in Northern Afghanistan.

malik #183 While I had said earlier that I had no wish to interact with you, I shall waive that for now and am writing this post since I will not let you hide behind the cover of the Quran to justify the evil deeds of 9/11. The only time violence is acceptable in Quran is in self defense. This is precisely what is reflected in the criminal laws of every civilized country on earth today. The Quran calls for living in harmony and affection with all communities - muslim and nonmuslim - a call that falls on deaf ears on the followers of Iblis (which is exactly what the 19 suicide hijackers were, as they no doubt are learning as the roast in hell today, and as no doubt their apologists will learn in due course).

If you disagree that you have just distorted the peaceful message of the Quran by seeking religious cover for these criminals you seek to defend, then I challenge you to cut and paste from the Quran where it says that jihad is anything other than self defense of the kind I mention above.

HE at 157:

``Like it or not, the Islamists are an integral part of Pakistan. In the event of a war, only these Islamists will sacrifice their lives for Pakistan, whereas America will suddenly develop dyslexia (like it did in 1971). Spurning our true friends for the sake of an unreliable ally is not really a good policy in the longer run. A better policy would be to embrace both.``

This is a debate that I had with Tauheed sometime ago on another topic and I was of the same opinion as suggested by you, till the time I had a very good discussion with my younger brother one day and I concluded the following:

1. Its good to have Islamists on our side, but the problem is that when you have them on your side, there is no guarantee that they will continue to follow the route you want to take them. The ``Jihad`` begins to follow its own dynamism. The ``Jihadis`` soon tend to become independent and by refusing to listen to the State, end up becoming terrorists.

2. Tauheed is adamant on keeping the defense of the country with a well trained and highly motivated army of few in numbers. But a highly disciplined army cannot fight its enemies without the backing of its people. And like you said,we have a nation divided on many issues.

3. Therefore, I tend to agree with President Musharraf when he says that Pakistanis have to be aware of the great vision about ourselves. Army can only do that much. We have to develop ourselves economically and socially too. Mullas have to be kept in check for this development (example: Turkey, Malaysia, UAE, etc.). I clearly saw the point that was made my younger brother, who is employed with Jang group, that the very message of austerity that the Mullas preach is against economic development, where you need certain amount of consumption spending to boost it. It is therefore, useless to keep our hopes pinned on few Islamists, because when the situation desires, that role should be played by Tauheeds, His Excellencies, romairs, nazarhayatkhans, echobooms, urstrulies, ahmadzais, Binas, Sameenas, etc. If the time comes and we are not ready to fight the enemy with core competencies that Allah has blessed each of us with, then that would be useless. In that extreme case, it would be better for all of us to cease to exist as individuals and as nation.

.............jihad is what it is

............ all this camel kaka about jihad being some kind of benign exercise in meditation is a putrid exercise in clintonesque obfuscation - it is an attempt to white wash something that is fundamental to the spirit of islam and has been around since the first jihadis in medina started raiding the meccan caravans ............ every muslim child knows what jihad is from the time he is old enough to mutter innanities in arabic and just because malik sahib says it is something else does not make it so ..............

............. now, i am all for changing the definition of jihad, but some authority (gabriel?) has to step up, admit the wrong-doings of the past and say that from today this is what jihad means ....... short of that we will continue to follow the classic definition as established by the conquerer of mecca, khalid bin walid, tariq bin ziad and muhammad bin qasim ..................

............ and as long as the concept of jihad exists the god-crazed jihadis will continue to fly planes into tall buildings and their supporters like urstruly and malik will continue to cheer them on ..............

Ironman

I beg to differ with the basic premise of your thesis. I agree, however, that the plane would have been flying very low at low speed before it penetrated lateral side of the building and as the photographs suggest in my #118 that it penetrated the lower couple of floors of the building; since the pictures show that the roof of couple of top floors were intact initially after impact. If we keep this scenario in mind even then it doesn`t explain the smaller hole. as a matter of fact it would have made a bigger hole with its wings since there would have been a structural damage of the pattern of wings before the wings broke at the junction of fuselage and buckled into fuselage like a bird that folds its wings when stops flying..

Another point is regarding jet fuel (not petroleum or kerosene as you suggest). The boiling point of JP is somewhere between 130-150 deg C, which is not at all very high. So unlike the JP in the elevator shaft of wtc, the JP over here had open atmosphere to escape after the temps rose up. Meaning that certain amount of fuel would have escaped without being combusted. In addition the fire retardant that fire brigade would have started spraying over the fire with in 5-15 minutes of the impact would have reduced the temperatures further from the “evaporation” point of any metal.

Alephnull you have some good points that I would like to discuss further.

hossp #182 -

Regarding your assertion about my alleged ``admission that the US is not basically wrong in going after these Jihadi`` and that the US is acting in its best interest, is not even close to what I was trying to communicate. For example, imagine your brother`s throat is being sliced by another man. Now just because I can rationalize for you why he is being slaughtered (maybe he owed him the money etc etc) does not mean that a cruelty is not in the process of occuring. To put another way, just because the murderer is acting in his best self interest, does not lessen the impact of murder on your brother, you, or your family.

Regarding your suggestion that I did not answer the question regarding Jihad, I believe i did as much justice with it as is possible in the limited space and time here. There are scholars who have written books and volumes over centuries on this topic. Quran has talked about this topic in detail. So surely it would not have been humanly possible for me to cover it from every angle, not to mention that I do not claim to be an Islamic scholar. I wrote in a few lines what I truly believe in, and in the time that i had.

If you are genuinly interested in this topic, please let me know and i can suggest some books to you.

#172 Malik99, #181 bullukhan


I thought this malik guy must have something up his sleeve that Trudy baby and the bum were running after each other to own the whole thing up.
Let us look at this.

In reply to No.1, He very coyly shows admiration for Jews. See the use of words ``influence, controlling, rational and admirable``. So now we know and it is good thing that these jehadi are now in love with Jews and admire the way Jews handle themselves. This is actually called Screenshot effect.

No.2, This guy contrary to his friends in Tora bora and several post by Trudy about America, now is claiming that the US is not wrong after all and it is has a right to protect its interests.
“I believe America is doing what is in its best interest. Whether they are right or wrong, they have a rationale for their actions.” Read this carefully another admission that the US is not basically wrong in going after these Jihadi. As it is in the US interest to find the masterminds behind the 9/11 attacks before they do anything crazy. Another Screenshot moment.
No. 3, This has to be the most wishy-washy, cockamamie, perverse explanation of Jehad.
Read the questions again:
do you believe in the notion of Jehad as having the following goals and objectives:
• Establishing the rule of God on earth. where is the answer for this question?
• Attaining martyrdom in the cause of God. Where is the answer for this question?
• Purification of the ranks of Islam from the elements of depravity. Where is the answer for this question?
He goes on and talks about Jihad every day and some more baloney but never actually answers the questions posed. Read his answer again.
“, i believe every human being (muslim or not) should engage in Jihad every single day of their lives. Jihad means struggle. Struggle to establish justice in their home, their street, their town, their city, their country. Struggle to do good in life; to fulfil obligations to other human beings; to respect others rights; to fight corruption; to abstain from vices.” Another screenshot classic.
Do you make out any thing from this dense answer? He just can’t even put the spin correctly.
Trudy and the bum are really proud. It is just that they did not read what malik actually wrote.

Thanks for answering these questions.

These are actually some of the beliefs and stated objectives of the members of the Al-Qaeda group (without exception).

hosp

You can take the screenshots of these replies as well.

Urstruly is our chowk freedom fighter: Just like a few thousand jehadi boys tied down 700,000 indian troops in kashmir, so does urstruly (with a bit of help from our zombie jehadi echoboom who terrorizes chowk with his meaningless mumbo jumbo) tie down the indian posters trying to explain to him why it wasnt a truck that hit the pentagon and why it wasnt the US that brought down WTC.

Against fools, the gods themselves struggle in vain. What to talk of ordinary mortals, yaar (this last sentence is written in pakistani english for which there is no equivalent in any other form of english.)

Ha! Ha!

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#172 by malik99 on January 31, 2004 11:15am PT

Thank you mujahid Malik99.

Right from the Qur`an!

And never again would jihad be a dirty word on CHOWK.

Your post has honoured the much maligned and cursed word /jihad and I hope and pray that , henceforth, all will use it with the same respect and relish.

shukrun.