The Nuclear Noose Around Pakistan’s Neck

ferozk #183 ``I still stand by my judgement that ummah and Islam have caused more harm to Pakistan`s interests than all its enemies could hope. ``

Fully agreed. And Zia returned the favor (at least to Afghanistan) by foisting the taliban morons upon them. It is interesting how quickly the Great Arab Hero Ghaddafi learnt to sing once he saw Grounhog Hussein emerge from the hole. And the Iranian mullahs had no problem in handing their ``muslim brother`` Qadeer once they realized the game was up. Interesting how one little invasion of Iraq can generate such enthusiasm for singing in the middle east.

#176 by tahmed32 and many other posts by you.

``the damage they have done to the sacred cause of the defence of pakistan is far more, i think, than people realize.`` -tahmed

I think that’s where lies the crux of this issue. The shortsightedness and behaviors such as what we saw by the Army and the Scientists come from the lack of accountability. I doubt that anything can top this but we need to start looking beyond this saga. I doubt that there is an angle that has not been covered by you or many other people.

As you have correctly pointed out the defense of Pakistan is damaged to a great extent. I would go a step further and say that now nukes have no deterrent value for Pakistan.
While considering your point vis a vis Indian regional position and Pakistani nuke. Wouldn’t it be better if Pakistan continues to press for better relations with India and concentrate more on economic uplift of Pakistan rather than military enhancement? It is not likely that India will take over Pakistan ever, the only thing India can do is put Pakistan a little bit back in international arena but then that has happened already.

tahmed32 - why are you whinning like this. Hey if you feel so darn bad about it all why not just give up being a pakistani and become an Indian. That way you too can start crowing and maybe grow up.

As some one said - everything in pakistan is for sale. the pakistani will sell anything for a few dollars - Xerox Khan has just shown it to be true....but there is a long of illustrocious people who come before him though - mush-e-ruff, the jarnails, etc.

Rsridhar # 189,

What you mention about India is true as well for china, but for the communist perood which i see as an anamoly in chinese history. You are right that today`s china under communism is a threat to a good extent. Tahmed gave china`s example so that india should not be scared of it. The same applies to pakistan vis a vis india. Even today`s india has never been the aggressor with pak. All four wars were initiated by pak. China initiated the war in 62 as well. Seeing these facts i believe that india still maintains its old ethos, whiule china is set with an anamoly.
Given these facts i find it difficult to digest that anyone should parrot india`s hegemonistic designs. If they had any, it would have been clear during 71 and 74 after exploding the bomb.

Adios

In Bombay würden viel Burschen es fertig bringen, irgendeinen alten Stoff zu verkaufen, als Schlange Öl zu den Araber. Oder alte whores als Jungfrauen.

Aber in Kahuta, scheint, daß die Pakistaner es fertig gebracht hat, die Araber eine Bombe zu verkaufen, die nicht existiert hat! Glückwünsche.

Dies ist sehr gut.

. . . or . . .

In Bombay, it would bring much fellows ready to sell any old material, when snake oil to the Arabians. Or old whores as virgins.

But in Kahuta, seems that the Pakistanis brought it ready to sell the Arabians a bomb, that did not exist! Congratulations.

This is very good.

AlephNull #178 you write ``India is already the ‘regional heavy’ ``
Quite right. All the more reason for Pakistanis not to let down their guard even as we seek peace. Thank you for unintentionally providing evidence to support my contention.

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Like all clouds, this unfortunate episode may also have a silver lining:

One benign fallout is already evident. Nuclear policy, the last remaing TABOO subject in Pakistan, is no more TABOO. TV channels & media are thrashing it out & a common man seems to be understanding some of it for the first time.

This should also logically lead towards fomulation of an effective Defence Committee in Parliament - and the policy making shifted under its domain rather than in the hands of few uniformed Heads.

The Army should realize its follies, take a step back & leave the higher national issues with the people. The people (parliament) invariably make more balanced long term decisions.

Finally, it may seep in somewhere that national security is not the function of only bombs, tanks, aircraft & submarines. There are many other important factors which contribute towards the national security i.e. political stability, strong economy, effective diplomacy, industrialization, high quality human resources and so on.

(Compare Japan with North Korea - Which country is more secure?)

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AlephNull #178 you write ``India is already the ‘regional heavy’ ``
Quite right. Thank you for unintentionally providing evidence to support my contention that Pakistanis should not let their guard down with India until the Indian government becomes more mature and stops trying to be what it can never be - a latter day Great Power in the 19th century mold. The Age of Great Powers is over. Pax Americana is a transitional phase, and the UN/NATO will no doubt replace Pax Americana some years from now.

On Vikrant: I am well aware of that. And what exactly has India achieved with Vikrant other than waste money? Did anyone ask that question before spending $1.5 billion to buy the new aircraft carrier? Thank you again for unintentionally strengtheing my argument that the purchase of the gorshkov is a monument to stupidity and arrogance. On``the expected acquisition of Akula class nuclear submarines and Tu-22 Backfire long-range strategic bombers``, what is the purpose of these? I think these are simply a reflection of that same dumb goal of making India a Great Power.

On Financing the Great Power: If you seriously think that India can afford to seek a deep sea navy that has no clear aim, then I think India has more resources to spare than not just the Soviet Union but the US as well. This is the same monumental blunder India is now making that was made when the Indian government blew the first nuclear bomb back in 1973 I think: there was no clear aim for that bomb, and the net result has been to achieve what we Pakistanis could never have achieved - a military stalemate in south asia.

But what do I know. I am just a dumb Pakistani, a citizen of an enemy country. Go ahead and buy what you like and pretend that India is a wealthy country while your people starve. But just remember what I have written when you look back 20 years from now. You wont be so upset with me then.

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re: #184 by Urstruly
I am moved by Ursltruly`s concern for his Nuclear Hero. As i write this post, my eyes are in tears. Read the following about how much sacrifice Abdul ``Xerox`` Khan had done for Pak:
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040130-121842-5941r.htm

``Pakistani exiles in London claim that Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, the ``father`` of Pakistan`s nuclear program, received a Caspian seaside villa and fishing rights for caviar-bearing sturgeon in exchange for his covert assistance to Iran`s nuclear program.``
Sridhar

Urstruly #184 If qadeer khan had any concern for the Pakitani people, he would not have enriched himself by engaging in nuclear proliferation, thereby seriously jeopardizing the sacred cause of national defense. And if you cared about corruption in pakistan, you would not be saluting this abuser of the sacred trust the nation placed in him. I could go on, but will stop here.

Go ahead and salute the traitor.

fountainheader #181 I already mentioned Tibet as being part of the one time China moved aggressively (in the two decades following Mao). That does not change things if one takes a longer view of CHinese history as well as a broader view of the CHinese value systems. While Vietname and China have indeed been at loggerheads over the centuries, the fact remains that China has never produced a ``world conqueror`` of the kind that Europe and Central Asia have done.

China and India are natural allies and potential forces for peace and stability in the world, not enemies (in India I think it will take a few more years before they get over this Great Power Trip that I refer to in my post to AlephNull - but it has to happen sooner or later). And I think even Vajpayee is beginning to recognize that.

re:#181 by fountainheader
Even during the zenith of his powers (during the 1971 war), Indian COAS Sam Manekshaw did not usurp civilian power when he could easily have done so. This came out in the interview with him years later. Indira Gandhi had asked him what his intensions were during the 1971 war and he had made it clear then that he did not covet power and he would respect civilian authority. This is something that Indians can feel very proud of. Few nations have military leaders of this caliber who bow to the popular support that civilian leaders enjoy. In Pak, military leaders have nothing but contempt for civilian leadership accusing the latter of corruption while forgetting that Pak Army is the most corrupt monolithic institution in that country. I do not have to repost articles on land grabbing and the number of dollar billionaires that Army has to prove my point.
Indians can also justifiably feel proud that India went nuclear after much of public debate and that its nuclear assets are in tight civilian control (read George Perkovich`s book on Indian nuclear quest to know what i am talking about). I recently read a news report that a former cabinet minister of India (in the 70s) H.N. Bahuguna had gone to Libya and was offered millions of dollars for nuclear knowhow. Not realizing the consequences, the clown agreed to the barter only to be put on a frying pan when he returned to India. India has never bartered its nuclear secrets even during the worst of times. That is also something that Indians can be proud of.
Sridhar

re: arjun_m # 187

Arjun, you are an intelligent person and so, I am assuming that your question was rhetorical and you already know the answer.

Ciao