Is Dr. Qadeer Guilty as Accused?

arjun_m #80 you say of urstruly

``That`s a lot of bravado from someone who doesn`t have the intestinal fortitude to leave the US, a land he blames for all his troubles.. ``

but shouldnt that be ``testicular`` rather than intestinal!

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Romair ,

``..Pakistan has had far more pressure put on it, then Libya and Iran ever did?
Pakistan did not crumble. Why did these two spineless countries crumble?``

Just wondering how you`re privy to the extent of pressure put on each of these
countries. And Pakistan was put under pressure for what - ratting out Iran and
Libya ? How do you know it didn`t provide US with relevant information in this
case.

Are you sure that Pakistan did not crumble under US pressure ? What was the
whole Afghan U-turn about, then....

Guilty, guilty, guilty!!

Romair

I am and I did not avoid your question. May be I did not understand your question. I may however, be able answer your question if you clarify one thing for me first - N.Korea is a part of which ummah?.

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Was watching press by Mushraff- reminded me of Mayawati.
The press guys were sitting like scared pigeons. Musharaff was thundering. Threatening press and others on talking about General`s involvement which is not in Pakistan`s interest. Scorning the psuedo-intellectuals in Pakistan. Telling co@k and bull stories. Churning inane explanations to school boys. The press guys were asking very mildly peneterating questions.The dictator was in his full form.

About Xerox Khan- there are some things you cannot say- in the ``covert stage`` - when you are developing something- which is your focus and if the man is delivering- you do not want to remove the man in order to hurt the program and have to overlook something. He was asked to do some thing -he did- and at that time one was not probing.
(which means admitting Army`s complicity)
Fredom fighter vs terrorism: No definition of what ``terrorism`` is, kashmir movement is by freedom fighters
UN Resolution- Pakistan`s stand on kashmir remains - there is no change- but we must have dialogue....blah blah....

Finally, he admitted- I have provided the shield for him

Urstruly #77: ``Of all I thought you had least bit of common sense ( and now I am not sure about honesty either).``

You are once again avoiding the question. I asked a question about the Ummah`s double-standards, and you have gone off on the USA and the West.

I have written more than my share of replies on the double-standards of the USA. To the point that I do not live in the USA any longer, because I did not want to be part of those double-standards. And because I felt that I would myself become a double-standard if I lived off the country that I had become so critical of.

So I do not need a lecture from you on honesty and double standards. The day you move out of the country that you are so critical of, insteading of feasting on its hot-dogs and pizzas, while simultaneously being so critical of its policies, is the day you will earn the beginings of the credibility of accusing others of dishonesty and double standards.

Now that, that is out of the way.

Back to the main topic, that you are avoiding. It should be perfectly clear to everyone that Iran and Libya thoroughly screwed Pakistan. They cannot develop nukes themselves, so they contact Pakistan. Pakistan helps them out. Then, at the slightest amount of pressure, they spill the beans.

What happened to all the nonsense about the Great Satan and standing up for Islamic principles and the Ummah? Pakistan has had far more pressure put on it, then Libya and Iran ever did? Pakistan did not crumble. Why did these two spineless countries crumble?

The answer is simple. Everyone is in it for themselves. While we, as Pakistanis, are caught in some misguided concepts of Ummah.

When was the last time Saddam ever said anything for Kashmir? Why did Yasir Arafat side with BJP, when India was about to attack Pakistan? What the hell is Iran allowing India to build Naval bases for? Why in the world is Karzai (the proud Pathan) so critical of Pakistan, after feasting on the Chappal Kabas of Quetta, for so long? Why is Osama blowing up innocent civilians in Pakistan, when he cannot get at the Americans? Why were the Taliban shaving the heads of Pakistan football players? Why do Saudis (not just the govt. but the average Muslim Saudi) treat all Pakistani construction workers and cab drivers like the dirt of the earth? Why are Pakistani comp. scientist paid a fraction of the salaries of goras in the Gulf countries? Why do the Palestinians not de-recognize India, if they want us to not recognize Israel?

Don`t you think the current actions of Iran and Libya clearly indicate that the Ummah wants to take from Pakistan, without giving back anything in return?

Romair:

Of all I thought you had least bit of common sense ( and now I am not sure about honesty either). Pakistan tests its nuclear weapons in response to India`s and what west does is to impose social boycott on Pakistan as if it has conducted those tests to attack West. The social boycott of a nuclear nation is the worst and the most stupid thing that one can ever do. Americans have learned this lesson the bitter way and now trying to negotiate with Korea and Paksitan etc.

After tests Paksitan had a technology, and it is sidelined in all economic and social forums. So what it is to do. To sell what it has to those who can pay. The naming by Lybia and Iran as Pakistan as their source is questionable. The two countries are under extreme military pressure from imperialists and want concessions. Same is the case with N.Korea. In addition, through any moral and legal point of view nuclear proliferation by Paksitan is and should be a non issue. We are under no obligation to not provide this technology to others for any set of reasons. We can and we should do it in exchange for better technology or for pure economic reasons.

A better approach for West would have been to induct India and Paksitan as the club memeber of the five. In that way both nations would have been abided by the IAEA regulations. But Unfortunately IAEA like UN provides blanket exemptions to 5 nuclear nations unjustly and immorally while one of those nations has actually used those weapons to kill hundereds of thousands of its enemies without remorse and without shame. US had no qualms about expressing its intentions to use nukes and chemical weapons on Iran during hostage crises and Iraq on several occassions. This should be just totally unacceptable for any just and honest person of this word belonging to any nation of this world. The UN and IAEA provide face saving to the law of the jungle that imperialist west is trying to impose on this world. If you want to live as the lowest link in the food chain then its your choice, I refuse to live like a cow just as any red blooded God fearing Muslim and Paksitani would.

Shaheen ka jehan aur he, kargis ka jehan aur.

Therefore, stop telling me what is right and what is wrong and what Paksitan should have done or shouldn`t have done. What Dr. Qadeer has done for Pakistan to make it strong, is beyond the capabilities of a normal human being. This great man is so selfless and honest that he had finally put his honor and reputation at stake to save Na Pak army from embarassment. And how Na Pak army has repaid him and this nation? Disgusting.

La`anat on these coward slaves.

#70 arjun_m
Tenet is a clown. How convenient it is to now claim that the CIA had known it all along? Without UN inspection of the Iranian facility and without the Libyans coming forward, the James Bonds at the CIA would have come up with nothing. As others have mentioned, the Khan labs have been advertising their wares in public for years and it took the CIA years of daring and hard work? These guys are jokers. Even now the White House is claiming that the pak govt or the military are not guilty on this issue. Is that based on what the cloak-and-dagger specialists tell them also?

I don`t think Pakistanis realize the gravity of their country`s situation given the kind of responses I am seeing from them. Consider this scenario: somehow the Al-Qaeda network manages to set off the bomb in the West, what do you think will happen? Pakistan will be obliterated by the West. No amount of medieval nutcases ranting and raving in the streets as they are doing now is going to help.

You can bet your bottom dollar that pretty soon, Pakistan`s nukes will be under American control if they are not already.

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That which does not kill me, only makes me stronger.....

Since 9/11, Pakistan has been forced to handle a lot of skeletons in its closets. I think, on the whole, it has handled them well. And has come out much stronger, then it would have had it not handled them.

This whole nuclear escapade will be worth it, if at least three out of the following, are achieved:

1. Pakistani, ``heroes`` need to keep a low profile. And not promote themselves as if they are kings. AQ Khan wasn`t the only scientist in the Atomic Energy Commission. Yet everyone thinks he built the bomb single-handedly.

A true hero (which in a sense he is) should not wear his/her, ``heroness`` on his/her sleeve. And should definitely not build mansions in Islamabad. One mansion should be enough.

2. The Ummah is a bunch of back-stabbers. Pakistan needs to re-evaluate this whole concept

3. Every country proliferates. Israel and USA being on top of the list. However, one needs to do so with some subtlety. Pakistan should only proliferate to and from, China

4. The whole structure of KRL etc. needs to be re-organized and be out in the open more. So the public can scrutinize it. Its employees are public employees. They are not heroes. At least no more of a hero than the average philanthrapist or the average doctor or soldier who stands on the border

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