The Third Pasture

Dear Nadeem,

It`s great to have you back. I see that you`ve stuck true to the old themes from Instep circa 1993 (any way you can publish your Simon and Garfunkel review on the web?).

Agree with all you have to say, would claim to have been brain-washed by you at an impressionable age, so will simply proceed to drop links:

www.monbiot.com
the sections on corporate power and economic justice are relevant; the mailing list can be pretty interesting too

http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles1.htm
one of the most honest articles from the days after the World Trade Center bombings; of course, I hope this prompts you to read the others at the site

http://pilger.carlton.com/
Australian war correspondent and human rights campaigner

on the truly academic side, there`s Chomsky and even Naomi Klein (yes yes, one can contest that classification).

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/newyork/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=2160&ixReplies=17 interesting, knowledgeable, opinionated discussion on software off-shoring, which is just another symptom of the general trend towards using 3rd world labour

http://www.globaljusticemovement.org/subpages_thirdway/intro_be.htm
bad design, some good articles, still haven`t explored it properly

plus, a concise leftist revisionist post-independence history of Pakistan by Tariq Ali:
http://www.newleftreview.net/NLR25301.shtml
Please note the second footnote on Zia`s surprisingly well-documented involvement in Black September

best

p.s. never understood why `anal retentive` always beats out `constipated`... is it just me?

dear mr. catfischblues,
all economic activity is generated by wants. and if you want something and are willing to and able to pray a price for it, there will be someone willing to produce it or you. simple demand and supply. if you didnt want a computer, you wudnt be willing to pay a price to aquire it and hence no one would pay for it. so when i say that without wants we would be in the stone ages, i mean exactly that. i mean that if the people didnt want better clothes, we`d be wearing bear skin today. if we didnt want a toilet nobody would have put the effort to make it and produce it and market it because there would not be any profit. this is the realoty we live in. just because something is right or good or hygenic is not reason enuf for production and economic process. it needs to produce a profit.
and when i said that you would be `dragging your female by the hair into your cave. And where would you answer natures call` i was speaking of a generality. the point was that we would still be in the stone ages. it is true that people still answer natures call in the roads, but its only because the cannot afford what the want.
so my point, which is stated earlier is that, without want(which is desire for something `plus` the willingness and ability to pay for something) their would be no incentive to produce the products we take for granted and we would still be living in the same conditions as our prehistoric cousins.
and people drag their women in their castles but its only to torture or abuse. it used to be that dragging women was a norm and it wasnt torture or abuse. then women started wanting to not be dragged and thus we are here. generally women are not dragged.
thanks

mr trashman.
you are studying currently at lse. why?
is it because you want to be enlightened or to be a better thinker. if so then you have every right to call me a capitalistic pig.
but if you are studying in one of the most prestigious and i think expensive schools in the world to be able to have a better financial position in life... well you and me both are the same. both just trying to get a degree and make something of ourselves to be able to buy the things we want. and thus perpetuating the cycle.
the only way you can escape it is by becoming amish.
bye

>>>If there was not any `want` you`d be in the stone age, wearing bear skin, dragging your female by the hair into your cave. And where would you answer natures call?<<

well, you really need to rethink that one as in your free market economy showered in wants... we still witness men publically displaying their natures call, and women are still being dragged by their hair-fair enough not into caves-but into their huge houses spread across the country.

whats your point?

#37 by ahmedmk

Capitalist Pig!

ahmedmk :~And lastly, if it werent for us yuppies and mindless drones of the elite, and because of our narcissism and our unquenching thirst for material things, you wouldnt have the convinience of writing this piece in you airconditioned home, sitting in front of your `personal computer`, because it is the very `want` of things that drives our economies.
If there was not any `want` you`d be in the stone age, wearing bear skin, dragging your female by the hair into your cave. And where would you answer natures call?~

Thank you for a desperate lesson in anal retentive economics, ahmedmk. In future I promise to be a bit more sympathetic to the ``mindless drones of yuppies.`` Have a nice day. :)

First of all, if it were not for the extremely annoying fragmented sentences, this piece would have been barely readable.
Second of all, what crazy notions you have about big brother and the economy. If you look at the history of man, this is how it has always been in the best of economies. The British Empire, the American Empire (which it was for a while) and many others only had, and still have, a small ruling class and a huge working class. And trust me, if you were one of the elite, you would call us workers `sick`.
And what with all the bad things you say about todays youth, and the MBA`s and yuppies following the ruling class mindlessly, you are not saying anything new. Nor is it appealing philosophically.
And lastly, if it werent for us yuppies and mindless drones of the elite, and because of our narcissism and our unquenching thirst for material things, you wouldnt have the convinience of writing this piece in you airconditioned home, sitting in front of your `personal computer`, because it is the very `want` of things that drives our economies.
If there was not any `want` you`d be in the stone age, wearing bear skin, dragging your female by the hair into your cave. And where would you answer natures call?

Thats whats sick.

ZaraJ # 26, NVP2003 # 18

I agree with you both. Your points about culture well taken.

At times, I also feel like migrating to Newzealand & live a peaceful unevenful existance. The pressure of being simply a sensitive Pakistani is getting too much.

Quite a strange effect, after seeing this piece on different places, every place came up with their own cynicism. Starting and ending on ilog, contemplating against ilogs, hmm sounds interesting. But on a non-personal note, I would say, lets misuse the word “I”.

#32
~n a more personal note, do you think that some of us who write ilogs are part of this pathetic `me` generation? is it not possible to be creative and individualistic when writing about ourselves, or the issues that affect us? ~

The ``I`` this piece was suggesting is the ``I`` either peddled in young minds by corporate advertising and ``ethics``, the relegious cults, etc. The one which writes I logs IS most probably YOU, and/or it is the `I` which most capitalists, traditionalists and relegious crusaders consider ``useless`` and ``impracticle.`` Keep loging.

NFP
Reminds me of that old Simon & garfunkel song, ``Still crazy after all these years.`` Or should I say, ``Still angery after all these years?`` 34 years old and still raging your wars against the ``powers that be.`` Agree with yellow3, impressive.

nadeem,
this article captured my attention from the moment i read it, but my first instinct was to question you on certain issues because of the lumping that tends to occur when you write something like this.

i agree with a lot of what you`ve said. and it makes me wonder, who are the youth of today. . .and who are some of their parents? and if this article is about the youth in pakistan, then yes, atrophy continues in pakistani society, and atrophy has been going on for such a long time that the mind numbs just thinking about it.

the `old` in pakistan have not been a roaring success in pakistan for quite a while now. . .there are exceptions of course. but i agree leadership for the youth has to come from within the youth. how many of our elders felt the same way we did as youth about what our ideals were. . .and understood our passion and fire?

some of us have all that we want, the hell with the rest. the `let them eat cake` attitude has been prevalent not just among pakistanis, but in other `great` lands of freedom and democracy as well. some of us are indeed numbed, unable to look at anything outside of our own daira, unappreciative of the social revolutions (which will still not be televised by the way) in front of them. and it`s amazing how so many of us are and have been unaware, not necessarily deliberately on our part, but just unaware of continuing revolutions, or even past ones for that matter.

so your critique is valid to some extent yes. but it leaves open a whole lot of questions. the thing is, who`s doing the questioning. are the youth reading this?

on a more personal note, do you think that some of us who write ilogs are part of this pathetic `me` generation? is it not possible to be creative and individualistic when writing about ourselves, or the issues that affect us?

******

yellow3,
for some. . .once a militant, always a militant! thirtysomethings still have plenty of fire, anger and passion. perhaps you should ask him this question thirty years from now. . .if it is possible to look that far ahead. : ) why wait that long? ask him again next year.

Excellent point, rozaiba. ye fauji hazraat aur mullah quam sub bigaar dey thi hai.

Paracha,
Wow! Your reply (#27) should`ve been part of the article. The funny thing is you still seem to have more anger, fire and passion as a thirtysomething former militant than a twentysomething man of this generation. How do you do it?

Nice hard-hitting piece.

The point I liked most was the ‘disconnect’ shown between the ‘current’ individuals desire to change and trash-talk the system on one side versus the complete inability to somehow start the wheels of change from turning.

However, this disconnect is mostly apparent in the posh areas of cities. There are plenty of aspiring youth in the non-posh areas who want to throw themselves in the thick of things but usually the only option they have is to do it through the very system which they cannot stand as they have not the material financial or security strengths to take everything on. Thus they settle for limited successes.

I’ve felt that only a continuous process for allowing some form of system to work will be the best option. Military rulers disrupt any form of process to take shape. There was a time when I really was duped by the ‘devolution plan’ as it brought in so many menial laborers who made less than 4000 rupees per month into the political system. Partially for entertainment partially for just feeling ‘part’ of and ‘involved’ in a system, we’d go around posting flyers and posters of our candidates. But as usual the manipulative and conniving faujiz combined with the menace of provincialism has ruined this opportunity as well.

#28...
Thanks but no thanks for the solace. There is something else that needs to be either further explored or studied. And, at no stage we can say that we have seen everything in life. In spite of the fact that we may claim to have been there and seen that there is a lot more to it....It all depends on how open you wanted to keep your mind to absorb, grasp and then interpret.

Nazar:
Also, the close family units have nothing to do with our culture. I love my parents not because they are Pakistanis or Muslims. I would have loved them equally if not more had I been a Ugandan or Timbuktooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon. This wasn`t a very convincing argument by you. Please come forth with a more convincing argument and I will love to be enlightened. Probably my own senses of observation and analysis are picking wrong signals. And, I need to charge my neurons...But that should be a frequent process. Thanks for the reminder. I will capture that on my ongoing things to do list.

Regards.

#24
~perhaps what is missing from your scenario is the older generation has failed and continues to fail to provide sustainable leadership...) ~


The youth rise when the old fail. But why isn`t it rising today? The old aren`t such a roaring success today, are they? But then maybe they are (a success) ONLY in finally managing to keep their young comfortably numb.
Leadership for the youth comes from among the youth. From within its own minds, ideals and passions.

#25
The youth movements were systematically polersied, then demonized. One way the old finally managed to keep the present generation numb.

ZaraJ, nice to see you`re finally all awake.

Dear Nazar,

Thank you for a wake up call. I guess I am at a stage where I am unable to appreciate anything in the culture. As far as close family unit is concerned, all cultures have that in them in their own way. Kangaroos like to keep their babies close to them as well and have a loving family unit. By the way, Kangaroos are not Punj-abis by birth. Since I do not find anything worth appreciating, I guess I better start learning both German and Spanish inside out.

We are too stuck up in the historical values and stuff. I was just having a heated discussion with the famous Akbar Ahmed. And, I was very disappointed on how much our scholars rely on the historical sequence of events. There is no such thing as looking ahead. There is no path well paved to even step on...

I agree with you that one cannot break the ties with one`s roots. I only think if you do not appreciate something then you should not let yourself multiply in that culture and that`s what my outlook has been. I am not saying that I am right. I am just sharing a very personal perspective.

mr.nadeem,
i observed the same two things `temporal` has:
.u are considering only a part of the whole population
.there is no proper/good leadership for the youth.
in khi univ the student org.s ARE active -but those leading these groups are doing it for theri own personal agenda, which we all know what is. these are the brain-washed urban youth who fit neither of the two categories described, ofcourse another tiny fraction of the whole. these youths are ready to kill each other bcos of different political views. and they just did too. and have been doing in the past.

#23:

(from #19
2: each generation has its share of angry young men, teddy boys, the me-generation...perhaps what is missing from your scenario is the older generation has failed and continues to fail to provide sustainable leadership...)

#22 by temporal on February 6, 2004 9:29am PT
~#21:

facetious

and

evasive~

Kindly elaborate.

#21:

facetious

and

evasive

:)

Today`s ``angry young man`` has been regulated as a ``disturbed`` young man who needs to learn to ``enjoy the joys of modern living`` by quiting smoking and getting on a healthy diet regime of skimmed milk, Diet Coke, Friday prayers, fresh Pringles, gym workouts and one Prozac a day right after a lovely pill of Centrum Multivitamins. What`s there to be angry about, son?

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Nadeem:

two observations:

1: you speak of the plight of urban youth only...(what is their percentage as compared with the rural youth?)

2: each generation has its share of angry young men, teddy boys, the me-generation...perhaps what is missing from your scenario is the older generation has failed and continue to fail to provide sustainable leadership...

rgds,

t

NFP, tusi chah gai ho again, sir. These yuppie punks and their relegious counterparts need to be kicked real hard in the butt for them to finally wake up and smell the shit they live in.

nazarhai`
you said: ``But this is all that we have - good or bad - and we have to continue to strive to search for our inherent high cultural values - a close family unit being its primary focus & asset.

We can not just dump it and walk away - we are inexorably linked with it.

I know it is easier said than done. ``

Hey Indians and Pakistanis have being doing so for years and years, but it`s been a failure to combat the warped corporate and myopic fundo culture that has invaded our counteries and what NFP seems so sick about. Sorry your solution is too simple and weak.

#13 by kaurasach
``like Bandar they hath ch ustra``

Lol, that`s a great and accurate way of describing middle & upper class youth culture of India and Pakistan today. Bohath khoob.

NFP, with your radical background in the late eighties and starting of nineties, I can imagine the frustration you go through looking at today`s young Pakistanis work like mindless monkeys.

Good piece, but I would like to ask you NFP, what can be done? Do you have any solutions or are you just there to abuse and accuse a generation which , unfortunately, refuses to think like you did as a student?

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ZaraJ # 8

(The culture has enough d.e.f.e.c.t.s that some refuse to acknowledge)

You have raised a very pertinent question. What is our culture? What are the essential ingrediants of a culture? How does a culture flourish? Has education system, state and the political system have something to do with it?

In my opinion, all the above, in some way, have contributed towards suffocation of our inherent cultural values. One may even say that our culture has been denied to us - and the gap has been filled by the materialistic urges, religious cocophony and outside influence. In most cases, the effect has been in the negative sense - except for the benign effects of the international corporate culture which again emphasizes too heavily on production.

But this is all that we have - good or bad - and we have to continue to strive to search for our inherent high cultural values - a close family unit being its primary focus & asset.

We can not just dump it and walk away - we are inexorably linked with it.

I know it is easier said than done.

I totally agree with ZaraJ. Chowk was chaoking with Dr.Qadeer and hijab articles. This sure is a breath of fresh air, something many of us have come to expect from Paracha. As usual passionate and sardonic, I too will like to ask Paracha as to what should the young be doing if not sucking up to their corporate jobs or finding salvation in relegious groups? Student power and protest died with the sixties or may be seventies, and now young people hardly reach their twinties when they are offered lovely perks by multinationals. This numbs them, but as you have mentioned, those who start feeling this numbness see no other alternative but to join equally numbing relegious cults. It`s become a vicious circle. Don`t know if it can ever be broken now. The thought sure is depressing.

#5 by kaurasach ~I hope (i know it is false hope) that somehow the `me` generation doesn`t ruin India and her thousand year old culture. They are being taught by both the media, captialists, and yes even parents that happiness=materialism=me=.... and image and reality are the same. ~

My sentiments exactly. I think we in India are facing a bigger `me` onslaught.

Ref:#7 saminasha
Yes the 70s were also about women`s lib, black power and all but these were usually the climaxing of what was in essence the work of the ``We generation`` in the 60s. The ``me`` generation Paracha is hinting at was about stuff which eventually gave us the yuppiefied ``Gimme generation`` of the 80s and what has now evolved into this numb consumerist gen Paracha is talking about.

Just when I thought Chowk is publishing repetitive themes, old thoughts with new cosmetic outlook, boring nonsense....I found something interesting. I just skimmed through this article and I must mention I liked it.

Thank You.
This is nice.
It needed to be more caustic.
It`s way too mild for what it`s trying to convey.

On a similar note, after many many years something hit me very hard on my recent trip to Pakistan. How and where does the youth utilize its energies and ideas? What are the extra-curricular? Constructive Activities? Since this was the 1st time after almost 5-6 years that I have gone back to Pakistan not to attend any wedding shedding therefore I was just asking all the spontaneous questions to myself and the people in my surroundings. My dilemma: I could neither eat all the time...could not stand shopping...could not be on the same roads that I have seen upside down and inside out throughout my childhood. So what`s new? I questioned one of my male cousins who is in his mid 20s and his response was amazing. ``Can you believe that we have to work from 9-6?`` He complained. ``What are your extracurriculars?`` I asked. ``I play squash every day`` He told me very proudly. ``But if you won`t work what would keep you productive?`` I cross-questioned. ``Still, 9-6 is a killing routine`` he commented. Now I am hoping a GIK graduate would not like to sit idle. But still talking to him and a very few other younger cousins who are still in Pakistan, it was evident that there was no desire to initiate anything that may be outside of their realm of duties.

``Who/where/how do you bounce off your creative ideas(provided you have any)? How do you change your current job if you are not happy with where you are ? Where do you meet like minded people or people who can serve as your mentors/industry peers or someone you can discuss an idea with and take it to fruition? ...`` I further questioned. Apparently, this very smart cousin of mine had no answers to the above questions. To top it all, some of the mailing lists he is a member of include nothing but Bush Jokes, How the west is ready to kill all the Muslims and a number of other ool jalool. I have requested anyone I know of to Allah Kae Wastae take me off such lists. What purpose do they serve? Probably, it`s my own m.y.o.p.i.c view on how I evaluated the above scenario. But talking to a few others, my arguments were not way off.

On a completely different stride, how the hell can the mindset upgrade when the whole conversation about someone who comes back from Pakistan revolves around the Food Street. The view from Cuckoo`s Nest/Cave. Then there is this unlimited obsession about Indian Film Acrobats. Urmila was in Pakistan at the time I was visiting. I guess every Lahore`s Party had Urmila in it. All the newspaper had devoted a section to Urmila and her findings about Pakistan. I understand the desire to redevelop and harmonize the communication links but there is no need to completely dullo-fy on the showbiz figures. Had it been someone from IIT visiting Pakistan then it would have made sense to give him/her a decent coverage. But Pakistanis as a nation are not appreciative of men and women who have anything to contribute in business, technology, sciences and other professional fields. Don`t be surprised if tomorrow you hear all the weird things about Dr Khan like he had two horns or 6 legs that were in hiding. Professional courtesy is the last thing that Pakistani Nation is capable of displaying. The best example is Pervez Hoodbhoy`s comment about Dr. Khan a metallurgist vs. a scientist or technologist (on those lines). There was a different technique used and it may be intentional vs. inadvertent. Still it was derogatory.

On a different note: While attending a dinner for the polo players at the Forte, I exchanged a few observations with one of the Australians. The very interesting part was that he was taken to the hub of Pakistani Culture. The famous place with a special view. Turned out no where else but the ``Cuckoo`s Nest/Cave - Whatever.`` ``The food was just ok. I could not digest what I was eating, but I guess it was the view that the place is famous for.`` He added. ``Unfortunately/Fortunately I have not had the honor of going near the vicinity but I have read a few things here and there.`` I remarked.

What is there to take pride in?

Excuse my language, what a $%^&*nation that takes pride in the view from that window on the one end and demolishes anything with a face of a woman on the other end. Extremes...Extremes...Extremes. How damn disgusting!

Now, if someone comes forth blaming TNT and other after effects of Islam on this nation, with due respect that fellow and his cohorts deserve proper spanking. The culture has enough d.e.f.e.c.t.s that some refuse to acknowledge. The culture itself creates hinderances...

Before I continue further with my flow of thoughts or laundry list of things that really ticked me off this time and drove me to many conclusions and reaffirmed many things that I had made decision on almost a decade or so back...I will stop my train of thoughts.

#5:

The ``Me`` Generation in the US may have been about finding your own bliss, but it was also about empowering Black Americans, people of color, women and the working poor. Just look at all the grassroots, union and academic movements that emerged from that time.

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Dear Mr. Paracha,
What`s wrong with being selfish? Human beings are selfish. If you cannot understand that i don`t what can you. Tried socialism, communism, but didn`t work. When all work for thier own needs and desires the society as whole benefits. All the criticism, regarding what one works for is beyond me.

I, generally, agree with what NFP has to say. Having said that, I would like to pose a question to him: Do you expect the youth to take to the streets and start protesting against the perks/priviliges provided by the corporate sector? In Pakistan where we have the super rich and super poor, considering that the middle-class would virtually non-existent in the next few years, everyone wants to feel safe and secure because everything depends on stablility, prosperity etc. Although I appreciate your spirit and the fact that you were very active as a youth, in standing up to an oppressive regime, but the disparity makes one wonder whether we have the guts left to actually do that now. In a dog-eat-dog world everyone wants to be at the `protected end` rather than being vulnerable just because they have certain beliefs. I guess we as a nation have learnt very well how to suppress our true feelings and desires and to follow the lead to perks and privilieges and becoming a babu jee and looking down upon these supposed underclasses. Atleast inside we know that we are not one of them. Blame the system not the youth. Indeed it is upon the youth if they want to maintain the status quo or not but in the absence of something attractive optionl to the contrary nobody would like to risk their life just because they feel that it is morally or intellectually unsustainable.

The prob with NFP is he`s always spot on in pin-pointing the problems, and does it with great rethorical flourish, but never bothers to offer solutions. Okay this generation is clueless and being brainwashed by the multinationals and relegious freaks, but how to change all that?

Paracha is addressing youth in both Pakistan & India. And I being an Indian sure feel that ``taunt`` as well, inspite the fact I`m in my early thirtees. I see todays Indian youth and all I can see is that ideological aimlessness Paracha is talking about. And yes most of them are also full of ``me``, a ``me`` which is not the real them.

Makes a young Pakistani like me quite helpless. This piece stings me like a taunting bee.