The Yearning for Peace

yeah baby!!!
pakistan a country of mutherfuckers,opening more and more terrorist camps funded by paki `tanashah` govt. to spread terrorism in INDIA.
the terrorist who carried out varanasi bomb blasts have been arrested and they revealed that they have been trained in pakistan.

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adaab arz hai, i am new. i am lurker, i am a jerker... I`m a joker, I`m a smoker, I`m a midnight toker. I sure don`t want to hurt no one.

The DA prosecuting Mir Aimal Kansi for shooting and killing 2 FBI agents outside J. Edgar Hoover Center in Washington DC said Pakistanis will sell their own mother for few dollars. Was he right? You be the judge-

From todays Dawn-

http://www.dawn.com/2004/02/13/fea.htm

Violence against women

By Syed Shahid Husain

We are a violent society and recourse to violence is quite commonplace. In spite of our adherence to the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women, 1979, we continue to regard women as lesser creation of God. Violence takes various forms.

---

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There was yet another brazenly monstrous case. About four decades ago, a friend of this writer was posted at Wana, South Waziristan. One of his Pathan employees tried to sell his widowed mother in marriage.

He had no other use for her. She begged her son but his greed for money was far stronger.

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Abay, yeh to Peace wala thread thaa!! HAHA!!

Gadhon, kuch to sharam karo.

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hrrehman:

..bankrupt countries like pakistan run by dicktators and known internationally to be thieves and smugglers of nukes have nothing to be zindabad about...

#29 by gujjubania

admit it man, you guys can`t fight, having your forces
on the border for a year and spewing hollow threats
for war and then retreating back to your holes.
shame on you. Your Hindu leadership always knew
they can`t afford to fight mighty Pakistanis.

Also please please feed your soldiers, they look like they
are dying of hunger. Your so called ``Jawans`` look pretty
pathetic, I saw a documentry on BBC about your commandoes
it was so funny, after seeing the shape your commandoes are
in I know Pakistan has nothing to worry about:) Pakistan Zindabad

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wahi_to:

``dont you know that banias/brahmins/sudras were not meant to be fighters. kshatriyas is the warring class and rest are not. ``

You are right. And yet you wannabe Arabs make such pathetic fighters that even our Banias, Brahmins, Sudras, Muslims and Christians kick your ass.

Oh, and to make it even sweeter, the operational commander in the 1971 war was Gen Jacob, a Jew!! HAHAHAHA!!

Sridhar # 26

You are right on dot. Mushy and Pakistan`s ass is on fire. All you need to listen to CNN, NBC and ABC and see today`s NYTimes, WP etc. Their ass is on fire and they are still talking about Kashmir. Pakistanis, Beware they are coming after you!! Mushy and all these editorial writers in Dawn, Jang are telling lies to their people that worst is over. NO, Not so Fast. This is just the beginning. Yesterday Bush and White House spokesman were grilled by the media on Pak. Plus there are elections now.

re: It is now Official: Pakis are the greatest jokers in the world
This is from an Australian daily newspaper ``The Australian``:
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=326858
``Pakistan`s chilling sense of humour

February 07, 2004

YOU`VE got to love the Pakistanis, they`re the world`s greatest jokers.

This week, their top nuclear scientist, Dr AQ Khan, told the nation that he had sent nuclear weapons secrets to Iran, Libya and North Korea, but that he had done it on his own. He was deeply sorry for this, but he acted entirely on his own and, get this, entirely in good faith, whatever that means.

Pakistan`s dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, made another broadcast confirming that Khan had acted alone and that no one from the army had helped him.

This is pure farce and a grim theatre designed to offer the flimsiest fig leaf to what is probably the single greatest act of nuclear proliferation in the world`s history.

Stopping the spread of nuclear weapons has always been one of Australia`s very highest foreign policy aims. It was one of the main reasons we participated in the war in Iraq.

It is worth reflecting that Australia is, for a country of our size, uniquely incapable of withstanding any nuclear strike, as virtually all of our population is clustered in six isolated coastal cities.

Six missiles and the Australian story is more or less over. That utter doom scenario has been made substantially more possible by the grotesque actions of Pakistan, which has engaged in some of the worst rogue state behaviour of any nation in our time. Musharraf, of course, immediately pardoned Khan.

I don`t think there is a single person anywhere in the world who believes that Khan proliferated nuclear technology without the complete connivance of the Pakistani military. And the key man in the military for a long, long time has been Musharraf himself.

Khan`s statement: ``I also wish to clarify that there was never any kind of authorisation for these activities by the Government`` is literally an insult to our intelligence.

If for a single second anyone took the statement seriously it would mean that the Pakistani military and Government are the most incompetent in history, manifestly unfit to be near any nuclear weapon under any circumstances.

But, of course, the Pakistani military is nothing like that incompetent. The Government knew exactly what he was doing at all times.

Within Australia, we have not generally realised just what a profound crisis the world faces in Pakistan. On the face of this week`s revelations, Pakistan has engaged in far worse nuclear proliferation than North Korea has ever dreamed of. Yet the US, under both Clinton and Bush, has kept the prospect of military action against North Korea on the table to deter it from actually going into full scale nuclear weapon production and possibly exporting this to other nations. We know now that Pakistan has actually done what the US, and the rest of us, only fear what the North Koreans might do.

But this is not a historical crisis, something entirely in the past.

Musharraf has recently survived two assassination attempts. In New Delhi, where I`ve spent the past week, there was some serious speculation that the first assassination attempt was perhaps a fake, designed to impress on the Americans the depth of domestic opposition Musharraf faces and his indispensability. But no one thinks the second assassination attempt, in which the bomb missed Musharraf`s car by seconds, was a fake and there is widespread suspicion of involvement by dissident factions of the army.

The whole future of Pakistan is truly in play. Musharraf, despite the shocking revelations of this week, is probably the least bad alternative as a leader for Pakistan at the moment. But no one knows whether his recent willingness to compromise and make peace with India, much less his promise to co-operate in preventing nuclear proliferation in the future, are a genuine strategic change of heart by Pakistan or just another tactical feint.

This is one of the most important questions the world needs to answer today. Under American pressure, the Pakistani military has isolated its most extreme leaders and put in place a chain of command in which secular officers, allegedly committed to the new Musharraf doctrines, are the next several in line after Musharraf. But if Musharraf were killed there would be chaos in Pakistan and any new general would know Musharraf was killed because of opposition to his new policies.

The future of the world`s second largest Islamic nation, filled with extremist groups, with a long history of supporting the Taliban and exporting terrorism, and with we now know the world`s worst history in spreading nuclear weapons technology, and most important of all with 30 to 40 of its own nuclear warheads, is truly in play.

The Americans bear a fair degree of indirect responsibility for this state of affairs. They pioneered the jihad technique for attacking the Soviets in Afghanistan, which Pakistan now uses against India in Kashmir and which has become an uncontrollable, worldwide movement.

Now the US, and Australia, are caught in a horrible bind. Musharraf, for all his appalling baggage, nonetheless is probably preferable to the chaos and risk that would follow if he were gone. I heard an American this week describe Pakistan as the scariest place on Earth. He was right about that. ``

Pakis lost in Kargil but think they won. Pakis lost the 1971 war but were told they put a spin even to that. Abdul Xerox Khan proliferated nuclear technology to rogue states with the active connivance of the Army but Pakis are being told Army did not know anything about it. During the Kargil war, when Paki Army lost, Nawaz Sharief was the fall guy. He had to go to beg and plead with Bill Clinton for a ceasefire on LOC. He rescued the Paki Army but latter put the blame on him for a sellout!
Today, their won hero has become a fall guy just to save the Army. That very army is under the tight noose of US.
One wonders if most Pakis (the kind interacting in chowk) are not ``chootias`` of the highest order. Nobody seems to debate if this army should be blamed or not. If Pak had a functioning democrazy and if army were not controlling civilians, Pak would not face this kind of humiliation the world over. Only yesterday, George Bush spelled Pak`s name clearly when he talked about his concerns with nuclear proliferation. But nobody in this chowk seems to care about that. Nobody is angry the way army has lied to them about everything and controlled their lives. All they care is how they look vis-a-vis India. It is really pathetic.
Sridhar

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gujjubania,

checked out the website you mentioned. that photograph could very well be of indian soldiers suurendering to chinese when china whipped india`s ass in 62.

also on the website`s homepage, there is this pretty indian officer saluting me, is there any way i can get her contact details....

dont you know that banias/brahmins/sudras were not meant to be fighters. kshatriyas is the warring class and rest are not.

Hey, is this Shamsul guy real? Doesn`t seem so ...

If he is, then Pakistan must be on some other planet.

Arjun_M # 17

This is how we never go beyond step one.

First step is to begin living like normal neighbours - the way rest of the world lives.
Then let us have some economic cooperation for mutual benefit.
Then begin to have a common regional worldview.
Then begin to have colloboration on security issues. And have open safe borders.

By this time, if you still have Kashmir issue pending, please give me call.

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#13
Guruji, this is Beena Sarwar not Bina Shah.

we want ferzana`s reportage of this WSF leftist jamboree (including the alleged rape scandal).

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Hi Beena, as reportage of an event, thank you. So this is apparently what we, mainly the English speaking and Anglo influenced middle class think, in both countries.

Now, I wonder when we are going to see some reports on:-

1) what the Hindi/Urdu speaking and reading, non-Anglo influenced people think.

2) what those who are already into benefitting from Indo-Pak strife have to say, too.

That would be the litmus test, right?

Or we can all pretend that they don`t exist.

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Bina shas of the pakistan can talk and may be even take isolated words of thousands of pakistanis and indians and make a facade of peace. Peace is the outcome of converging social values and aspirations of the people.
In the last 50 years pakistan has steadfastly tried to differentiate itself from india. The curriculum in schools, the selection of gaznavis as heros, the madrassas, the bomb and trade restrictions are all intended for this purpose. There is no move what so ever to change any of this fundamental premises. The improved visa and contacts are only one way, it is the pakistanis who wants to come to visit their relatives in india and is simply an opportunity for ISI to push sleepers into india. No indians, other than a few of the likes of dost mitter and stuka who from the hindi belt share arragant values of pakistan care to go there.
No educated pakistani wants to take on the jinnaism of the madrassa and say that jihad is not killing of kafirs. Even the tahmed could say is that he is against the killing of another human. Does not dare to question the foundation of madrassas by telling that jihad is not.... Tahmed even on the anonymity of chowk does not dare to go against the madrassa, but hides behind generalisations, not to offend the mullah, or may be finds it against his own beliefs about islam. There can be no peace till the basic values of pakillstan is changed, only when killing is removed from the values of pak society, from killing of animals in the family homes, to honour killings, to jihadic killings, and finally the greatest killer of all, gaznavi and ghoris replaced as pak heros.
Killing and peace can never go together what ever Bina sha may write.

stuka...
check out #2...

Khammy:

Who is Arab half breed? I read all the posts and the article, don`t see the mention of any Arab??

No matter how much we try to be objective, the Chowkies are also politicised by default. And Chowk represents a very small percentage of the views of both countries.

The main stream majorities do have a genuine urge for peace. And it was for the simple reasons of forces of history and cultural affinity. These forces can not be artificially subdued for long espeicially with the spread of education and better economic conditions.

And the leaders on both sides have been behind times. While the Indian leaders did have some arrogance and did not wish to be seen as compromising to a small country; the Pakistani leaders were mostly trying to prove their own distinct different identity; and use the anti-India stance so as to deny the natural forces of co-habitation.

Gradually, the influence exerted by the ordinary people on both sides is becoming stronger - and the leaders will have to accept the logical peace option - in a spirit of give & take.

one must be careful to not read too much into this present ``peace`` overtures by both parties. how come two parties that were at each other throats months back are suddenly friends. this is all media hyped crap that will settle down once masters of public opinion want it to.

agenda based and big brother owned media is selling us this ``peace`` story for whatever reasons. dont buy much into it. BJP wants it to sell its fake ``feel good`` factor to dumb indians and musharraf cant say no to his masters.

I am distrustful of Pakistan, but I feel these mombattiwalas from Pakistan serve a purpose, as they highlight the value of peace to the Pakistani common man.
But they should concentrate on working on their government, and make it realise that attaining Kashmir is only possible in their dreams, or on a tourist visa.

...do we need arab half-breeds to sort our affairs...buzz off...

We can forget about India and Pakistan merging, anytime in the near future or any time at all. Even though the BJP types talk about an `Akhand Bharat`, it is more in nostalgic terms or to use as a threat. Why would any sane Hindu in India, particularly a sangh parivar type, want more Muslims in India, by an union with Pakistan? It would only dilute the political and economic power that the Hindus have in India, due to a 82% majority. This power has come only through democracy of numbers, after centuries of slavery under the colonial and Islamic invaders.
I dont think any sane Pakistani Muslim would want Pakistan to merge with India, either. Even though there might be economic benefits (doubtful), why would you want to submerge in an ocean of 800 million Hindus, when you have your own Islamic haven with near zero minorities?
In fact, the only significant group that might want an Indo-Pak merger would be Indian Muslims, as the increase in Muslim population would increase their political power and standing within the country.

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Shamsul:

``I hope the Indian government will see the light and give us back this land. ``

Give us back??? When did you have it in the first place?

``This is the feeling of all in Pakistan because kashmir is in our blood and soul. ``

Simply amazing how you have survived 50 years without your blood and soul complete. I am sure if you can manage 50, you can manage 50,000 years as well.

Anyways, if peace was upto Sabziwalas and time pass people like us, we still would not have achieved it.

#2

kashmir is in our blood and soul.

It`s a shame you can`t live in peace until you lose your blood and soul too. Hope you will change your mind.

Interesting perspective from a peacenik. Can`t wait for Jay to enter this particular china shop. The sentiments you heard expressed by a handful of people, i have heard from a hyderabadi pakistani who believed that the two countries should simply merge and that would get rid of all the acrimony!

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