A Shameless Polemic Against the Nehru-Gandhi Dynasty
Ashish Sharma March 3, 2004
#82 Posted by yogiraj on March 7, 2004 9:54:31 am
harimau.
I am not an idiologue. I am just an Amar/Akbar/Anthon...A street urchin.
What I hate most... and may be real ones should answer.
The economic future of India is like ``Sailed boat``. You know where a Sailed boat goes.... The direction wind takes... globali.... WTO.... free trade...
Worst. It is judiciary that has to and does decides well being of citizens. No. It was not Ms. Dixit that had anything to do with pollution in Delhi. No. It was not Balasaheb or Sushilkumar who worries about slums in Mumbai. No. it was not any missionary, so loved by a shrink, that takes care of morals. They all.. simply forced to follow.
Now tell me economically... it is a sail. Well Being (barring shrink who likes to licks) it is Judiciary...
Welll
Yogiraj Patil
I am not an idiologue. I am just an Amar/Akbar/Anthon...A street urchin.
What I hate most... and may be real ones should answer.
The economic future of India is like ``Sailed boat``. You know where a Sailed boat goes.... The direction wind takes... globali.... WTO.... free trade...
Worst. It is judiciary that has to and does decides well being of citizens. No. It was not Ms. Dixit that had anything to do with pollution in Delhi. No. It was not Balasaheb or Sushilkumar who worries about slums in Mumbai. No. it was not any missionary, so loved by a shrink, that takes care of morals. They all.. simply forced to follow.
Now tell me economically... it is a sail. Well Being (barring shrink who likes to licks) it is Judiciary...
Welll
Yogiraj Patil
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#81 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2004 7:38:40 am
Ref pmishra2 #13
[The only way out is the development of a deeper democracy which will throw up more sheila dikshits, chandrababu naidus, CM of Goa, Budhadeb of Bengal etc.]
Sheila Dikshit claimed credit for Federal government projects (such as the Delhi Metro) and judicial initiatives (such as use of CNG in buses and taxis and enforcement of Euro 2000 Clean Air Standards which she was against) for the cleaner air in New Delhi. She is just another arse-licker of Antonia Mano aka Sonia Gandhi. She can be fired at will by Sonia.
As to Buddhadeb Bose of West Bengal, it doesn`t take a genius to recognize what a fcuk-up West Bengal had become under 35 years of Communism. He is now trying to learn the Beijing Model of Capitalism which Jyoti Basu resisted to his last day in office. The fact that the Beijing Model happens to be participation in globalization is irrelevant to him. To him, all wisdom emanates from Beijing. So it did for Jyoti Basu except that for him the Fount of Knowledge was Mao Zedong and Deng Xiao-ping was a Revisionist.
[The only way out is the development of a deeper democracy which will throw up more sheila dikshits, chandrababu naidus, CM of Goa, Budhadeb of Bengal etc.]
Sheila Dikshit claimed credit for Federal government projects (such as the Delhi Metro) and judicial initiatives (such as use of CNG in buses and taxis and enforcement of Euro 2000 Clean Air Standards which she was against) for the cleaner air in New Delhi. She is just another arse-licker of Antonia Mano aka Sonia Gandhi. She can be fired at will by Sonia.
As to Buddhadeb Bose of West Bengal, it doesn`t take a genius to recognize what a fcuk-up West Bengal had become under 35 years of Communism. He is now trying to learn the Beijing Model of Capitalism which Jyoti Basu resisted to his last day in office. The fact that the Beijing Model happens to be participation in globalization is irrelevant to him. To him, all wisdom emanates from Beijing. So it did for Jyoti Basu except that for him the Fount of Knowledge was Mao Zedong and Deng Xiao-ping was a Revisionist.
#80 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2004 7:38:40 am
Ref halur_rasho #19
[There is an economic issue, which most pakistanis entirely miss. That is, the BJP is to a large extent pro-business. In fact, the Jan Sangh from which it evolved was primarily a party of small businessmen and professionals. A lot of middle / upper middle class folk are anti-Congress rather than pro-BJP. The Congress, until very recently was contemptous of the indian middle class.]
Let me give you just one example why the middle class is happy. Under Congress misrule, India produced 35,000 Ambassador cars (beloved only by the Headshrinker on Chowk) a year and you paid a down payment and waited 7 years for the car. You waited even longer for a Lambretta scooter. When a company in Chennai (Standard Motors) successfully copied without needing a license agreement the advanced engine of the Rover 2000 and then entered into an agreement with Rover to produce that car in India, that car costing an unprecedented Rs. 200,000 at that time was sold out for the next 7 years before the first car even rolled out. (This was when the Maruti 800 sold for Rs. 80,000 and there were no other alternatives to the Ambassador). The Government took several of the Rover cars to the Emissions Testing Center in Ahmedabad (because they were paid off by Hindustan Motors), used the vehicles as personal vehicles of the lab officials and never certified the engine and Standard Motors went into bankruptcy. (By the way, the car`s styling was so good that a Canadian company planned to import the vehicle minus the engine and stick a Ford engine in it so that it could be easily serviced in Canada).
Today, there are some 15 or so marques being sold in India, most of them being assembled here. Instead of waiting for a car, you get accosted by car salesmen when you go for a walk on the beach in Chennai who offer fantastic credit terms. If you want a two-wheeler, India churns out close to a couple of million a year and there are monthly price cuts on them. Hyundai plans to expand capacity to 280,000 cars a year in India. Tata just bought the truck unit of Daewoo Motors in South Korea!
The middle class is able to buy real-estate with low-interest loans, buy consumer goods such as refrigerators, TVs, Hi-Fi entertainment systems, cell phones without even a down payment (my brother paid US$3,000 15 years back under the Own Your Line scheme of the Indian Telephones...after he paid the money, he was told by an employee of the telephone system that such a scheme did not exist, despite it being documented in the Telephone Directory...and he was told that once paid, the process to get the money back (in Indian rupees not US dollars) would take forever...he just lost the money...). You find today college girls and guys chatting with each other over the cell phone and sending each other SMS messages.
Life is easier today because Congress is NOT in power. India would only get better under the BJP... there is enough support from the middle class so that the Swadeshi crapola of some of the lunatic fringe of the BJP would be completely ignored.
[There is an economic issue, which most pakistanis entirely miss. That is, the BJP is to a large extent pro-business. In fact, the Jan Sangh from which it evolved was primarily a party of small businessmen and professionals. A lot of middle / upper middle class folk are anti-Congress rather than pro-BJP. The Congress, until very recently was contemptous of the indian middle class.]
Let me give you just one example why the middle class is happy. Under Congress misrule, India produced 35,000 Ambassador cars (beloved only by the Headshrinker on Chowk) a year and you paid a down payment and waited 7 years for the car. You waited even longer for a Lambretta scooter. When a company in Chennai (Standard Motors) successfully copied without needing a license agreement the advanced engine of the Rover 2000 and then entered into an agreement with Rover to produce that car in India, that car costing an unprecedented Rs. 200,000 at that time was sold out for the next 7 years before the first car even rolled out. (This was when the Maruti 800 sold for Rs. 80,000 and there were no other alternatives to the Ambassador). The Government took several of the Rover cars to the Emissions Testing Center in Ahmedabad (because they were paid off by Hindustan Motors), used the vehicles as personal vehicles of the lab officials and never certified the engine and Standard Motors went into bankruptcy. (By the way, the car`s styling was so good that a Canadian company planned to import the vehicle minus the engine and stick a Ford engine in it so that it could be easily serviced in Canada).
Today, there are some 15 or so marques being sold in India, most of them being assembled here. Instead of waiting for a car, you get accosted by car salesmen when you go for a walk on the beach in Chennai who offer fantastic credit terms. If you want a two-wheeler, India churns out close to a couple of million a year and there are monthly price cuts on them. Hyundai plans to expand capacity to 280,000 cars a year in India. Tata just bought the truck unit of Daewoo Motors in South Korea!
The middle class is able to buy real-estate with low-interest loans, buy consumer goods such as refrigerators, TVs, Hi-Fi entertainment systems, cell phones without even a down payment (my brother paid US$3,000 15 years back under the Own Your Line scheme of the Indian Telephones...after he paid the money, he was told by an employee of the telephone system that such a scheme did not exist, despite it being documented in the Telephone Directory...and he was told that once paid, the process to get the money back (in Indian rupees not US dollars) would take forever...he just lost the money...). You find today college girls and guys chatting with each other over the cell phone and sending each other SMS messages.
Life is easier today because Congress is NOT in power. India would only get better under the BJP... there is enough support from the middle class so that the Swadeshi crapola of some of the lunatic fringe of the BJP would be completely ignored.
#79 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2004 7:38:40 am
Ref nazarhayatkhan #17
[Congress is a declared Secular Party. Whereas the BJP coalition does have a Saffron touch.
I am a little confused about the long run implications of BJP on the Indian politics. Pakistan`s experience of religious-politics has not been a pleasant one.
I hope the Indian interacters are factoring this element in their assessment.]
Dear Khan Sahib,
With due respect, the difference is that your religious parties look back to 1400 years ago whereas our religious parties would happily dump all the baggage except the label ``Hindu``. As the people have mostly done.
[Congress is a declared Secular Party. Whereas the BJP coalition does have a Saffron touch.
I am a little confused about the long run implications of BJP on the Indian politics. Pakistan`s experience of religious-politics has not been a pleasant one.
I hope the Indian interacters are factoring this element in their assessment.]
Dear Khan Sahib,
With due respect, the difference is that your religious parties look back to 1400 years ago whereas our religious parties would happily dump all the baggage except the label ``Hindu``. As the people have mostly done.
#78 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2004 7:38:39 am
Ref HisExcellency #174
[Congress and BJP are not the only alternatives in India. There are a lot of ``third`` options as well such as Janata Dal, DMK, AIMDK, TDP, Samajwadi, BSP, etc. At one point, BJP too was a small party with very few seats in parliament. Who knows one of these parties may grow into national movements in another 10 years!!]
The DMK? Ha, ha, ha... that is good for a laugh! Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion has anointed his son Stalin as his successor in Tamil Nadu and his nephew Murasoli Maran`s son Dayanidhi (Fund of Compassion, again!) as his representative in Delhi. He sold MP tickets for the coming elections at the rate of Rs. 6 million to Rs. 10 million. His only hope is that he doesn`t die when Jayalalitha is in power so that he could be buried on Marina Beach next to The Great Intellectual because if Jayalalitha is in power she will make sure that no space is made available on public beach-front property to bury his rotten carcass.
[Congress and BJP are not the only alternatives in India. There are a lot of ``third`` options as well such as Janata Dal, DMK, AIMDK, TDP, Samajwadi, BSP, etc. At one point, BJP too was a small party with very few seats in parliament. Who knows one of these parties may grow into national movements in another 10 years!!]
The DMK? Ha, ha, ha... that is good for a laugh! Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion has anointed his son Stalin as his successor in Tamil Nadu and his nephew Murasoli Maran`s son Dayanidhi (Fund of Compassion, again!) as his representative in Delhi. He sold MP tickets for the coming elections at the rate of Rs. 6 million to Rs. 10 million. His only hope is that he doesn`t die when Jayalalitha is in power so that he could be buried on Marina Beach next to The Great Intellectual because if Jayalalitha is in power she will make sure that no space is made available on public beach-front property to bury his rotten carcass.
#77 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2004 7:38:39 am
Ref Lord_Dirtier #7
[Where was Indra Gandhi and Rajev Gandhi educated, can someone please let me know?]
They both flunked out of school/college in England. Indira Gandhi was sent off to Switzerland to study at a finishing school. Must have flunked out there too, looking at the amount of charm she oozed!
[Where was Indra Gandhi and Rajev Gandhi educated, can someone please let me know?]
They both flunked out of school/college in England. Indira Gandhi was sent off to Switzerland to study at a finishing school. Must have flunked out there too, looking at the amount of charm she oozed!
#76 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2004 7:38:27 am
Ref sunlight #52
[Rajiv Gandhi wanted to jump-start India`s growth in software and telecom. In telecom, he picked Sam Pitroda and set up CDOT to develop telecom equipment.]
Pitroda OFFERED his services to the Indian government. Rajeev Gandhi wouldn`t have known his arse from a telephone switch. There is no question of Rajeev Gandhi making an informed decision about Pitroda. Pitroda had demonstrated his abilities by becoming a VP at Rockwell and a multi-millionaire.
[Rajiv Gandhi wanted to jump-start India`s growth in software and telecom. In telecom, he picked Sam Pitroda and set up CDOT to develop telecom equipment.]
Pitroda OFFERED his services to the Indian government. Rajeev Gandhi wouldn`t have known his arse from a telephone switch. There is no question of Rajeev Gandhi making an informed decision about Pitroda. Pitroda had demonstrated his abilities by becoming a VP at Rockwell and a multi-millionaire.
#75 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2004 7:38:27 am
Ref sunlight #53
[Rajiv Gandhi`s problem was that he was too bhola-bhala (as one says in Hindi). A completely innocent person, he could not protect himself against the Bofors scandal in which many of the people who were making allegations against him were extremely corrupt. In Sri Lanka as well, he was deceived and discarded by both sides to the conflict.]
Rajiv Gandhi said about the anti-Sikh riots following his mother`s death, ``When a great tree falls, the earth shakes``. He didn`t do squat to curb the riots. If this a$$hole was a bhola-bhala (whatever that means), I am the Pope.
Bofors has admitted paying bribes to get the contract. If Rajiv and his widow Antonia are so interested in clearing his name, why is the middleman Quattrachi hiding in Kuala Lumpur?
[Rajiv Gandhi`s problem was that he was too bhola-bhala (as one says in Hindi). A completely innocent person, he could not protect himself against the Bofors scandal in which many of the people who were making allegations against him were extremely corrupt. In Sri Lanka as well, he was deceived and discarded by both sides to the conflict.]
Rajiv Gandhi said about the anti-Sikh riots following his mother`s death, ``When a great tree falls, the earth shakes``. He didn`t do squat to curb the riots. If this a$$hole was a bhola-bhala (whatever that means), I am the Pope.
Bofors has admitted paying bribes to get the contract. If Rajiv and his widow Antonia are so interested in clearing his name, why is the middleman Quattrachi hiding in Kuala Lumpur?
#74 Posted by yogiraj on March 7, 2004 7:38:27 am
``#71 by jang on March 6, 2004 3:55pm PT
#70 yogiraj
You dont like dynasties. What do you make of Bal/Uddhav/Smita Thakre inc? Is that just plain mafia?``
If you know ``political`` history of Shiv Sena, you would know the answer. Shiv Sena was for formed by Balasaheb as an organisation for locals against south Indians...Hindooo south Indians.. (not muslims/Italians). It worked upto a time. Then he knew formula works... find some one or some group to...
Yogiraj Patil
#70 yogiraj
You dont like dynasties. What do you make of Bal/Uddhav/Smita Thakre inc? Is that just plain mafia?``
If you know ``political`` history of Shiv Sena, you would know the answer. Shiv Sena was for formed by Balasaheb as an organisation for locals against south Indians...Hindooo south Indians.. (not muslims/Italians). It worked upto a time. Then he knew formula works... find some one or some group to...
Yogiraj Patil
#73 Posted by yogiraj on March 7, 2004 7:38:26 am
``#72 by stuka on March 6, 2004 10:08pm PT
Jang:
You give the Thakerays undeserved credit by calling it a political dynasty. It is most certainly a mafia. And the Shiv Sena BJP combine is a major reason I want a strong Congress. Today BJP kicked out DP Yadav because a man like ABV is at the helm. Afyer he is gone, they will happily take someone like him. India has at best a few years for a legitimate politcal system to emerge that is federalist in nature. ``
Gosh Stuka... Congess has taken so many DPs....Congressmen today will sell their souls to devil to be in power.....
Yogiraj
Jang:
You give the Thakerays undeserved credit by calling it a political dynasty. It is most certainly a mafia. And the Shiv Sena BJP combine is a major reason I want a strong Congress. Today BJP kicked out DP Yadav because a man like ABV is at the helm. Afyer he is gone, they will happily take someone like him. India has at best a few years for a legitimate politcal system to emerge that is federalist in nature. ``
Gosh Stuka... Congess has taken so many DPs....Congressmen today will sell their souls to devil to be in power.....
Yogiraj
#72 Posted by stuka on March 6, 2004 10:08:47 pm
Jang:
You give the Thakerays undeserved credit by calling it a political dynasty. It is most certainly a mafia. And the Shiv Sena BJP combine is a major reason I want a strong Congress. Today BJP kicked out DP Yadav because a man like ABV is at the helm. Afyer he is gone, they will happily take someone like him. India has at best a few years for a legitimate politcal system to emerge that is federalist in nature.
You give the Thakerays undeserved credit by calling it a political dynasty. It is most certainly a mafia. And the Shiv Sena BJP combine is a major reason I want a strong Congress. Today BJP kicked out DP Yadav because a man like ABV is at the helm. Afyer he is gone, they will happily take someone like him. India has at best a few years for a legitimate politcal system to emerge that is federalist in nature.
#71 Posted by jang on March 6, 2004 3:55:50 pm
#70 yogiraj
You dont like dynasties. What do you make of Bal/Uddhav/Smita Thakre inc? Is that just plain mafia?
You dont like dynasties. What do you make of Bal/Uddhav/Smita Thakre inc? Is that just plain mafia?
#70 Posted by yogiraj on March 6, 2004 7:13:51 am
Ashish,
Loved this one. However started asking questions to meself
I am an open bigot. So you know whom I will vote for. However, while voting, there are so many factors you have think about. I will still vote for one congress candidate, who I can assure you, will be get elected from Mumbai. The guy simply stands out.
Also, please...please, Pandit Nehru, Indira and Rajeev did lot of good along with bad.
I agree with you.. dynasty is bad.
My question is who allowed it to happen? Nehru? Indira? Rajeev? We do not take responsibility of our own destiny and start blaming what ...Italy? Spain?
Oh come on ....let me give myself a break.
Yogiraj
Loved this one. However started asking questions to meself
I am an open bigot. So you know whom I will vote for. However, while voting, there are so many factors you have think about. I will still vote for one congress candidate, who I can assure you, will be get elected from Mumbai. The guy simply stands out.
Also, please...please, Pandit Nehru, Indira and Rajeev did lot of good along with bad.
I agree with you.. dynasty is bad.
My question is who allowed it to happen? Nehru? Indira? Rajeev? We do not take responsibility of our own destiny and start blaming what ...Italy? Spain?
Oh come on ....let me give myself a break.
Yogiraj
#69 Posted by plats8 on March 5, 2004 6:43:24 pm
The bankruptcy of the Congress leadership is transparent in the manner
Narasimha Rao has been treated lately. The sole reason behind the senior
leadership avioding him is to not incur Madame`s wrath. Pitiful !! It would
be one thing if the sidelining was done based on a principled stand of some
sort - given the scandals and all. This is being done with the sole purpose
of sabotaging an alternative power center within the party.
Narasimha Rao has been treated lately. The sole reason behind the senior
leadership avioding him is to not incur Madame`s wrath. Pitiful !! It would
be one thing if the sidelining was done based on a principled stand of some
sort - given the scandals and all. This is being done with the sole purpose
of sabotaging an alternative power center within the party.
#68 Posted by sadna on March 5, 2004 12:52:51 pm
Correction
``the conclusion was that until a country`s GDP rises to a certain level``
``the conclusion was that until a country`s per-capita GDP rises to a certain level``
``the conclusion was that until a country`s GDP rises to a certain level``
``the conclusion was that until a country`s per-capita GDP rises to a certain level``
#67 Posted by sadna on March 5, 2004 12:42:46 pm
stuka #65
Someone once posted a New Scientist article on sulekha about a British? study on the relation between corruption, GDP and opening up of markets.
If I remember right, the conclusion was that until a country`s GDP rises to a certain level, globalization/opening of markets is counterproductive, ie doesnot help the economy, doesnot benefit average citizen etc because only increased corruption results from more money being available via globalization/FI.
That article in now in archive, but I have the link to a couple of graphs that went with it:
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/9999/99994247F1.JPG
Someone once posted a New Scientist article on sulekha about a British? study on the relation between corruption, GDP and opening up of markets.
If I remember right, the conclusion was that until a country`s GDP rises to a certain level, globalization/opening of markets is counterproductive, ie doesnot help the economy, doesnot benefit average citizen etc because only increased corruption results from more money being available via globalization/FI.
That article in now in archive, but I have the link to a couple of graphs that went with it:
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/9999/99994247F1.JPG
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