Honour Killing: Understanding The Legal Background

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There`s no doubt about it. Pakistan sucks. Thanks chowk editors for bringing this fact to our attention through this series on Hudood ordinance and all its brilliant offshoots.

96 by Romair on March 2, 2004 7:21am PT
stuka #91: ``Honor Killings are not deemed illegal.``

I hope you are not serious. Do you really think that honor killings are not illegal in Pakistan? If you do, could I ask you for your source of this information?

Killings of all kinds, in Pakistan, just like in other socieities are illegal. Why wouldn`t they be?
An analogy would be to say that killing Muslims is legal in India, just because Muslims were killed in Gujrat, and their killers were not prosecuted.

The above is a post by romair, in a long line of posts supported by tahmed, ylh and other pakistanis on chowk. This represent the tragedy of pakistan, the educated not accepting the reality of pakistan and believing that it is all a question of propaganda.

The real tragedy is that even after this article, the pakistanis will continue to insist that honour killing is not legal in pakistan. May be it is time that at least some pakistanis to accept the contribution of one indian in brigning this shameful pak fact open on chowk.

Good piece.

The article holds a painful mirror to reality and every Pakistani should look at the reflection in the mirror.

Ciao

``Honour Killing: Understanding The Legal Background
Nasir Ali``

so now we are discussing the `Legal` intricacies of `Honour Killing` -- may be it`s all because -- Honor is spelled wrongly in Pakistan as Honour -- may be if they spell it correctly -- as we in do in US-- its legality will disappear -- if not the actual killing.....

There is no ``honour`` in these murders period.

Ras

Sir

I have no idea what you are saying...could you please restate what you just said. I mean there are many interesting terms such as ``hindu businessmen from Canada``, Bin laden enterprises, fake korans?...which have many interesting possibilities but at present I cant make head or tail out of them....

Pseudoliberals should stop posting such obviously anti-Islam articles.

For Islamic women, infidelity, flirting or other behavior perceived (by the ever-wise readers of quran) as ``immoral`` are unpardonable crimes. A woman who is a proud muslim should happily embrace death for her un-Islamic behavior.

Quran prescribed that women be modest. Can an immodest woman be a good Muslim? If you are not a good Muslim, why should you go on living?

Only by following quran, keeping women modest, killing immodest ones, and preventing un-Islamic corruption of men and women that you can progress.

Very good article. Although Islam does have zina laws, in Pakistan the Hadood ordinance, it is often used as an excuse to kill women. Often women are killed in violent acts committed by their husbands for money, land or other purposes and these deaths are often explained by Hadood. The law is misused and it belittles women and gives them practically no rights.

``Pseudoliberals should stop posting such obviously anti-Islam articles.``(Ralph)

agree 100% -- only good muslims named Ralphs should......:-)

CALLING TAHMED, CALLING TAHMED


`I hope you are not serious. Do you really think that honor killings are not illegal in Pakistan? If you do, could I ask you for your source of this information?

Killings of all kinds, in Pakistan, just like in other socieities are illegal. Why wouldn`t they be?
An analogy would be to say that killing Muslims is legal in India, just because Muslims were killed in Gujrat, and their killers were not prosecuted`

The above is a typical quote from pakistanis, the ilks of tahmed, ylh, romair who try to say that honour killing is some practice in tribal areas, killing is a crime in pakistan.

It is remarkable that tahmed, romair and ylh have avaoided this article like plague. If they post here it will be a tacit acceptance of their awareness of the pak laws.

tahmed, ylh accet the reality.

Mr Ali,

You drew attention to a very important issue in the Pakistani society. But are you certain that these killings are legal? Can you back up these facts with legitimate references?

If indeed these are correct, then I wonder what the educated class in your society is doing to change these laws. I had read several accounts of pakistani men`s abuse toward their women not only in their country but here in US as well. It seems that violence is a way of living there with very little regard for human life.

However, you are not alone and your society is not the only one that is suffering from the ills of man-made lust and laws. Perhaps you should do more than just write about it.

For some of the interacters:
I like to mention customs from other cultures which were equally barbaric. For instance, sati practice in hindus (where widow is burnt alive with the body of dead husband) that still goes on in remote parts of india, premadonna Scottish ritual practised hundreds of years ago (where a local lord would ``use`` a woman before returning her to her family), the polyandry in far-east asia where only one brother would buy a wife and the rest of the family would be served by her, etc etc. The very common wife beating is reported everywhere in the world, including the US. In US, a juvenile can commit a murder and then serve until reaching adulthood, then goes free on parole. Many serial killers that kill women and children escape capitol punishment by pleading guilty on basis of insanity. You see law everywhere has loopholes, because these are man-made laws.

Nowhere in the Quran or Bible or Torah it says that you are allowed to kill, or restrain your women etc. The major problem is that many men are incapable of understanding that women are just as much of an intellectual being as they are. If your wife is unfaithful, divorce her. As simple as that. If your sister is having illicit affair, well its her own business. If your daughter is 21+, its her right to decide how she lives.

In underdeveloped countries, women are perceived as burdens and thus, are devalued. Unless there is a major change in attitude and thinking of the society, there is not going to be a reduction in violence. The law as written in paper always has loopholes.
Instead of disowning your culture, it would be more productive to open channels of negotiation, especially to the younger minds.

A very good article and an eye-opener for everyone! i`m not sure whtether the two ordinances are made by taking the islamic teachings into comsideration or not but atleast what i can think of is that this is immoral. Islam certainly teach us moral values and ethically both the ordinances lead to an immoral end!
For Zina case, the condition of providing four witnesses is extremely weird because if a person would perform rape then its not necessary that he will always have people around him and if he does then those people will be the culprit`s ``chailas``.How is this possible that always the prey would have her people at the time of the happening? Hence, the female always gets to face the consequences of ``just being a female``. The statistics provided are much less than the actual count because in scare of the reputation majority of the females who fall prey to such animals never report to the police.
Hence I would request that someone should atleast take a step towards these laws and try to provide justice with JUSTICE irrespective of the gender!
rubab

it is beyond any doubt that the killings(honour or otherwise) r very painful for the society consisting of sensible/sensitive members..but at the same time declaring something `not illegal` on the basis of a repealed law s not understandable...
the problems pointed out in the article r being repeatedly pointed out ..n yes they r very serious problems..but i havent found a single person sa far who has come up with a proposed solution wich covers all the relating matters..on one hand they want death sentence for one who has committed honour killing or rape (agreed..he deserves a detrent punishment) but on the other hand they declare capital punishment inhumane like other deterent punishments n then they talk bout reforming the criminals..
i think its not that simple to give a conclusion on these issues as they involve some complex matters which have to b considered while discussing em. ``Mind making based on natural principles of criminal justice which enjoy social acceptance is v.v important``.

the article is precise and revealing........thanx