Rights (un)Defined

Hafsa,
If you are indeed trying to show that Islam gives a woman more rights and elevates her to a status to a much higher degree than any feminist movement can, then I have to wonder about a few things.

You speak of a woman`s right to wear a hijab, but what of a woman`s right not to wear one? Is a woman any less of a Muslim if her spirit and actions show her to be a woman of faith but she does not wear the hijab? Does or does not a woman have the right not to wear one?

You say: ``The fact that women have a lesser share of inheritance or that two women have to give a testimony for it to be accepted is never indicative that women and their duties are inferior and should be treated as such.``

Interesting. Women are definitely not inferior, but I question the fact that it is never indicative. Where are the rights of women when it comes to them being assaulted or raped? There are those who have spoken out in favor of the Hudood here. Is the Hudood not indicative that women and their duties are inferior? If a woman clearly cannot bear witness, or other women on behalf of her that she has been sexually assaulted than it raises serious questions as to the indicativeness of the inferiority of women.

As for the principles of feminism, there are those feminists who take their faith as a starting point in terms of treating all human beings ``equally`` and with ``respect``. For whom Islam and feminism, or Christianity and feminism intermingle. I have to wonder with what is ``allowed`` and ``not allowed``. With what some want to say is the Law, or with following the spirit of such words. I wonder if I am less of a person of faith because in spite of my belief and my practice of faith, I choose not to cover my head.

You do make a good point about democracy though. Charity begins at home as well.

I was fortunate to get a copy of this at the `SAARC` writers conference held at AlHamra Lahore.

Hafsa

I am with your cause.

But if Islam has not been able to get the Muslim women their due riights in the last 1400 years - there is something to think about.

Let us first get the Muslim women rights what the rest of the world has given - after that we can move on to the more Rights of Islam.

inquilabi:
Islam is all for freedom and NO compulsion whatsoever in religion. If a Muslim woman does not want to wear Hijab, that`s between her and Allah (SWT). No third person has any right to tell her otherwise.

The crimes against women which go on is this country are definitely not sanctified by Islam. Those who say so otherwise do so out of ignorance. Islam has outlined very strict punishments for the crimes you mentioned. Unfortunately, our justice system does not work according to the Islamic principles most of the times.

For a very detailed and objective analysis of the Hudood Ordinance I suggest you get a copy of ``The Reality of Objections on Hudood Ordinance`` brought by Women Aid Trust. Hopefully it will make things more clear.


Mantolives: what conference and was it this article of mine? Can you let me know more about this? Jazakallah

Ms. Hafsa,
Don`t mind me saying this, but your piece read like a liberal`s version of Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi`s ``Bahishty Zewar.`` But I`m sure your convictions regarding the issue were noble. But usually liberalism and being noble are not always a good mixture, especially when liberals set themselves the task to offer the ``true interpretations of the Koran & Sunnah.`` All they end up producing are little, middle-class Juniad Jamsheds suddenly deciding to ditch their guitars and heading off to Riwind. Or worse, little bourgoise Imran Khan`s ditching denims (albiet only in Pakistan), replacing it with a shalwaar-kameez and accompanying assholes like JJ, Hamid Gul and Ijaz-ul-Haq to Riwind for a summer break.
Only confusion results. And of course, some good old fashioned hypocrisy.

rgds,
Nadeem F. Paracha

with friends like hafsa, muslim women don`t need any enemies .........

..........according to her, and other apologists for islam, the following hadith is an example of women`s rights as guaranteed by al-lah and his apostle:

Narrated by Abu Huraira, Allah`s Apostle said, ``A lady slave should not be given in marriage until she is consulted, and a virgin should not be given in marriage until her permission is granted.`` The people said, ``How will she express her permission?`` The Prophet said, ``By keeping silent (when asked her consent).”


.............so we are being told that silence is consent and slavery is okay as long as a lady slave is ``asked`` before she is trundled off to somone`s bed............ and only virgins can be given in marriage?......... what about non-virgins?............ are they to be stoned? ..........subhanallah!.... mashallah!............. as long as we keep on drawing inspiration from the bufoonery of seventh century bedouins, our poor women will remain third class citizens ..............


``The truth is that our religion, Islam, gives her more rights and elevates her status to a much higher degree than any feminist movement can``.............. oh, really?.......... then how come that the first thing you notice when you land in an islamic country is the absence of women?.......... i guess they are all at home burning their bras and enjoying their rights !!!! ............ it took them fourteen hundred years to get to this point !

Read this NY Times Op=Ed piece carefully, in particular those words about women`s education and empowerment. Don`t ignore it as just another article on India`s IT boom.

Then ask yourself: Are the comparisons drawn in the article fair?

Origin of Species
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Published: March 14, 2004

Nandan Nilekani, C.E.O. of the Indian software giant Infosys, gave me a tour the other day of his company`s wood-paneled global conference room in Bangalore. It looks a lot like a beautiful tiered classroom, with a massive wall-size screen at one end and cameras in the ceiling so that Infosys can hold a simultaneous global teleconference with its U.S. innovators, its Indian software designers and its Asian manufacturers. ``We can have our whole global supply chain on the screen at the same time,`` holding a virtual meeting, explained Mr. Nilekani. The room`s eight clocks tell the story: U.S. West, U.S. East, G.M.T., India, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, Australia.

As I looked at this, a thought popped into my head: Who else has such a global supply chain today? Of course: Al Qaeda. Indeed, these are the two basic responses to globalization: Infosys and Al Qaeda.

Infosys said all the walls have been blown away in the world, so now we, an Indian software company, can use the Internet, fiber optic telecommunications and e-mail to get superempowered and compete anywhere that our smarts and energy can take us. And we can be part of a global supply chain that produces profit for Indians, Americans and Asians.

Al Qaeda said all the walls have been blown away in the world, thereby threatening our Islamic culture and religious norms and humiliating some of our people, who feel left behind. But we can use the Internet, fiber optic telecommunications and e-mail to develop a global supply chain of angry people that will superempower us and allow us to hit back at the Western civilization that`s now right in our face.

``From the primordial swamps of globalization have emerged two genetic variants,`` said Mr. Nilekani. ``Our focus therefore has to be how we can encourage more of the good mutations and keep out the bad.``

Indeed, it is worth asking what are the spawning grounds for each. Infosys was spawned in India, a country with few natural resources and a terrible climate. But India has a free market, a flawed but functioning democracy and a culture that prizes education, science and rationality, where women are empowered. The Indian spawning ground rewards anyone with a good idea, which is why the richest man in India is a Muslim software innovator, Azim Premji, the thoughtful chairman of Wipro.

Al Qaeda was spawned in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan, societies where there was no democracy and where fundamentalists have often suffocated women and intellectuals who crave science, free thinking and rationality. Indeed, all three countries produced strains of Al Qaeda, despite Pakistan`s having received billions in U.S. aid and Saudi Arabia`s having earned billions from oil. But without a context encouraging freedom of thought, women`s empowerment and innovation, neither society can tap and nurture its people`s creative potential — so their biggest emotional export today is anger.

India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan each spontaneously generated centers for their young people`s energies. In India they`re called ``call centers,`` where young men and women get their first jobs and technical skills servicing the global economy and calling the world. In Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia they`re called ``madrassas,`` where young men, and only young men, spend their days memorizing the Koran and calling only God. Ironically, U.S. consumers help to finance both. We finance the madrassas by driving big cars and sending the money to Saudi Arabia, which uses it to build the madrassas that are central to Al Qaeda`s global supply chain. And we finance the call centers by consuming modern technologies that need backup support, which is the role Infosys plays in the global supply chain.

Both Infosys and Al Qaeda challenge America: Infosys by competing for U.S. jobs through outsourcing, and Al Qaeda by threatening U.S. lives through terrorism. As Michael Mandelbaum, the Johns Hopkins foreign policy professor, put it: ``Our next election will be about these two challenges — with the Republicans focused on how we respond to Al Qaeda, and the losers from globalization, and the Democrats focused on how we respond to Infosys, and the winners from globalization.``

Every once in a while the technology and terrorist supply chains intersect — like last week. Reuters quoted a Spanish official as saying after the Madrid train bombings: ``The hardest thing [for the rescue workers] was hearing mobile phones ringing in the pockets of the bodies. They couldn`t get that out of their heads.``

Hafsa,
If you are trying to convince someone that there is no compulsion in Islam then this article is not all that convincing, unfortunately. I have to agree with baaghiraja when he says that although your effort may have been noble, it just leads to more confusion.

My apologies for borrowing your board


DIL FUNDRAISER IN SAN FRANCISCO SET FOR MARCH 27


What could possibly be THE gathering of the year for the Pakistani community in Northern California is scheduled for March 27, 2004 when Developments In Literacy (affectionately known as The DIL Organization) brings its caravan of hope to the Argent Hotel in San Francisco at 50 Third Street with a reception slated for 6:30 pm followed by dinner and entertainment beginning at 7:30.
Headed locally by Sara Abbasi and her team of dedicated ladies who do our country of origin proud, it is organizations like DIL which have spearheaded the cause of fighting illiteracy in Pakistan with resources gathered from the overseas Pakistani community and their friends. And it is for this reason that this coming event should once again bring together the “Who’s who” from within Pakistanis and Pakistani-Americans. Illiteracy and ignorance is a sure path to a life of poverty in Pakistan or for that matter anywhere. The Abbasis (Sohaib and Sara) have already done more than their share towards spreading the spread of knowledge about Islam here in the US by recently funding/initiating an Islamic Studies Chair at Stanford University. Now Sara and her group of friends are back to helping people in Pakistan.
In 2001 Sara Abbasi had this to say about her first effort; “Just as importantly, DIL is working to break the ingrained social taboos that discourage female literacy. This indeed is the noblest of causes. In the words of Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him),
“the mother’s lap is the first school”. Only through such efforts will the next generation of Pakistanis improve, not just their own lives but the entire community around them”, said Mrs. Abbasi.
During the 2002 program it was mentioned that DIL is currently operating in Orangi (outside Karachi), Khairpur (Sindh), Dir (NWFP) and Mianwali (Punjab). There is also the hope that a new project in Baluchistan will be in full operation soon. Currently 200 schools are being operated by DIL with over 8000 children enrolled. What DIL is trying to do is change despair to hope and to bring a confident smile to the faces of young children and wipe away their tears that the embarrassment of illiteracy brings to their lives.
Tickets to the event are not cheap ($100 to $150) but the cause is more than worthy. So if you would like to attend or assist in any way please call (650) 323-6080 or (510) 651-3088. Please do not miss this opportunity to help some very poor in Pakistan get access to education. Corporate Sponsorship is available for $2000 & Patron Tables for $1500 (call for additional details). Please send your checks to 38 Monte Vista Avenue Atherton CA 94027.

You can also contact DIL San Francisco via email at dil_sf@yahoo.com

Islam says the woman is `half-wit`. Any discourse she makes proves this. God created Adam, the Human, to be His `Khaleefa` (Deputy) on earth. Eve, the woman, was created only to fullfil his desire for having a company. But this sub-human thing proved to be anti-human and resulted in disgraceful expulsion of Adam, the human, from the heaven. While turning them out of heaven God had said ``Get out from here and you will be enemies of each other``. But we go on repeating this mistake as we are afraid of loneliness like our Father, Adam. So we have women as wives, loundies, daashtas, etc., etc. These are the basic relations of the humans with the woman; all other relations like mother, sister, daughter, etc., being merely accidental decorative by-products. The Quran describes comprehensively the status of the woman , viz-a-viz, man, in its Sura Nissa, verse 34, which the writer, for good reasons, ignores altogether. I reproduce it here :-
``SURAH IV, verse 34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. ( Translation by Pickthall )

Islam and for that matter no religion provides for women’s right. It is unfortunate that we see this article on International Women’s week celebrated all over the world. It is also amazing that all women on chowk have “consented in silence” on the content of this demeaning article about women’s rights.

Here are a few observations:
The writer states:
1. “Right to Work: Yes, the primary importance of a woman is in taking good care of the house and its inhabitants.”

Primary Importance???

2. “We have numerous examples from history, where women at the time of the Holy Prophet used to run their businesses, keep their own shops and preach the Holy Quran.”

This is a lie! There is no such example in Islamic history at least during the time of the Prophet. Not even man preached the Quran during the prophet’s time. Actually the author is preaching women to work from home.

3. “Financial responsibilities are solely the domain of men.”

4. “We have a role model in our Prophet, who used to do his own work in the house (how many men regard this as a challenge to their manhood?)

Yet another lie! There is no evidence that the prophet routinely used to do house work for what it was worth.

5. “If hitting has to be resorted to, and that is also allowed in one circumstance only, it must not be on the face and not so that any marks appear on any part of the body.”

The author is clearly condoning women beating and quoting the Quran to support her argument.

6. “In our society, somebody who doesn’t lash out on the women, whether it be wives or sisters is actually looked down upon by others,”

Which society is the writer talking about? Lashing may be norm in her family but most of the educated middle class families in the subcontinent abhor this very idea.

7. “Right to Inheritance: …It goes on to define the different shares women have in the inheritance”

Right of inheritance is not equal in Islam and the writer does not admit that.

8. “In our society, we have widows working nine to five to support themselves and their children, which is quite contradictory to the above ayat.”

The writer is quoting Quran to say that “the “mahrims” of the widow have full responsibility to provide for her.” And the widow is not supposed to work to support her family.

9. “the husband can only expect obedience from his wife as long as his wishes are in accordance with the commands of Allah”

So if men’s’ wishes are in accordance with Islam, women is supposed to be obedient??????? Obedient as in a servant or a slave????


There is a history of women rights struggle in different parts of the world. There is still a lot to be done in that area but saying that Islam provides for women rights is a blatant lie.
Islam does no such thing. Religions in history have been used to deny women their rights and Islam is no different.

The writer quotes Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadis 9.100 as Narrated by Abu Huraira. This is a lie too. It is not a confirmed Hadith.

History does not provide for existence of any “Abu Huraira” during the prophet’s time. The Sahabis in the prophet’s close circle are well known to historian and all Muslims. There is never a mention of any body named “Abu Huraira” except in some hadith. I question the validity of this Hadith as I think it was made up by al-Bukhari almost 200 years after the Prophet’s death.

Finally, I seriously doubt that the writer is a woman as the name implies. There is somebody else in this “Purdeh-e- Zernigari”. Not that it makes a whole lot of difference.

Obviously Mr. Freedman hasn`t heard of TRG and Zia Chishti... quoted as one of the 30 most eligible bachelors by the Peoples` Magazine some time ago, Mr. Chishti is founder of one of the most successful call centers in the world, right here in Lahore, Pakistan.

.......... folks like ms. hafsa are much more dangerous than the bearded mullahs and wild-eyed jihadis because they are continually try to put a human face on a barbaric ideology instead of recognizing it for what it is and moving on to something better .................

..............to add to what tom friedman had to say, here is bbc today :

``Worlds apart

Wagah is the only road border crossing between the two countries .The differences between India and Pakistan are plain to see.

On one side men and women are segregated. On the other, families sit together. In India the watching crowd is a riot of colour. Across the border, white robes dominate. The strains of the azan, the call to prayer, compete with Bhangra beats. ``

..........hopefully, bhangra will win in the end .............

At the ned of a long day, most women hear such things from their fathers or brothers or husbands as: You don`t really do anyting, You enjoy yourself at home while I am out doing the real work, What is all this dust on on the TV Trolley? Can`t you do such a little thing? And women are expected to tolerate all this feeling all this while, that yes it is their fault and they should have done better.

I think the TV Trolley needs to be cleaned every day. Wether a lady slave does it or a virgin whose permission needs to be obtained whoever is in the house, a cordinated effort is needed to make sure that the TV Trolley does not have dust. This is a must. Together the virgin and the female slave must lift the TV while a third female who has an online job must take a quick break and wipe the Trolley surface with a wet cloth. If women cant do this after I come back from a long day of work I will lose it.

#14, #12, #10

And i was trying to be nice for once. (laughing)

Friedman is too often deluded by the way. That qualifies him to write an op-ed for one of the top papers in the US, if not the world. Try not to take everything he writes as the almighty word. Just my opinion.

My girlfriend who is cleaning the TV trolley as I type this agrees with me.

Hossp,
I don`t know if all women on Chowk have consented in silence to the content of this article. I think many women on Chowk are ignoring this as yet another justification/excuse/call it what you want to for what a woman`s place is in the land of the puree`d. Some of them just don`t care, and some of them are too engrossed in school and finals to give this the attention it deserves. You call it consent. I call it `Frankly my dear I don`t give a damn`. And who knows, it might be the same thing afterall.
Tomorrow is yet another day.

Hafsa,

Question: I like this article...but who`s your audience? The commies and westernites here are not impressed...should the rest of us really care? They`re the trees in the forest that fell and made a huge noise...but we`re not in the forest to hear it. Why are you taking us there? The intended audience is among us, in the streets...far away from the petrified forest of sardonic pines and twit oaks, and certainly not among the chowk bushes (some of which are of the g.w. kind, actually).