Ashura: Atonement, Mourning and Return

I don`t think the eating of bitter herbs on Passover, or any of the Passover rituals, can be taken lightly. Eating really dry, dusty bread for eight days is pretty serious. It doesn`t bleed you, but it`s not to be taken lightly.

And why should it matter to me that Jews eat bitter herbs or drink four cups of horrendously sweet wine for Passover? What goes of my father, as my father says. It`s harder to say that when watching self-flagellating adults and children in the streets - but in the end, I have to back off from judgement of that. I don`t judge the value of the act in the eyes of God because that`s so not my job; I don`t judge its value as mourning, except to say it must do something for the soul, or people wouldn`t do it again and again; I don`t judge people for mourning the death of Imam Hussein centuries on, except to say I mourn too. I don`t know why.

And I really don`t know what to say about the children. It seems wrong to me, and this is just dead honesty. It`s hard to be PC-aloof-sabkuch-chalta-hai in the face of that. But I think it`s far more complext than the way it`s being portrayed on this board.

#15 - nazar: I would ammend that to say all ideologies have the ability to make people do reprehensible things.

:) And thank you for the compliment. I`ll tell my mama.

#13 - freesoul: -with all due respet- I think your logic matches the logic of fundamentalist protestants I know who say that AIDS is God`s punishment for homosexuality. I don`t think it makes any sense. And I don`t think it naturally follows that if a group of people do something morally wrong (and I``m not saying either homosexuality or bloodletting is morally wrong, don`t misread me), violence or tragedy will befall the larger society. I think that`s faulty logic, and very dangerous.

Hey Midi: Yar I think it`s all about fear in the end. Fear that your way of life is threatened, fear that who you are and what you believe is wrong, or might be proved wrong, fear that the other guy might go to hell and take you with him, fear that They are taking all the resources and leaving Us with beans. Fear manifests in anger, which manifests in violence, which manifests in fear, which manifests in anger...

Though I think that might actually be to pat.

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We can condemn each other to death and cry our throats dry but fact on the ground remains that only people who have benefited from the carnage in Paksitan and Iraq are the imperialist Americans. Americans are in process of preparing case against Iran, so they are preparing the ground work in the surrounding countries - especially in Paksitan, when the would launch their offensive against Iran they would not want any voices of opposition (as it happened in case of Afghansitan)

The shiites in Iraq know this fact very well that as soon as the Americans get a breathing room in Iraq, they will turn against Iran so they support struggle for freedom which has its basis in what is called Sunni triangle. Americans on the other hand would like to weeken the shia sunni informal alliance and even start a civil war among them so that they could divide Iraq in three parts - Kurdish North, Sunni Triangle; and Shiite South. This is an open secrets which is openly discussed in the corridors of power in Washington. The only problem is that the people of Iraq has proven themselves way smarter than the Impeialists thought that they would be. The only way the peace can return in Muslim lands is if imeprialists are thrown out of all occupied territories in Arab world, Afghansitan and Paksitan - otherwise we should brace ourselves for many such incidents to come. It is sad that in this danse macabre of greed and anti-Muslim hatred of the west, shiites are mostly on the receiving end but other Muslims are also the victims of an agression just like them.

God has given man exponetially diminishing memory for a purpose.. so that you forget and then move on. Ashura style un-natuaral in that they keep the feelings of vengence fresh and cause enmity. Naturally, these should have been extinguished over a couple of generations. Remebrance of opression etc is fine .. just eat some bitter herbs like for passover and get over it.

........... as soon as they decide ``who is a muslim`` on the other board we will know whether the ``twelve imamers`` deserved to die ............sunnis and shias, both can`t be right, so someone has to pay............ and if someone has to pay for murdering hussain why don`t we just blame it on the jews - after al they do have a record of crucifying people ............. and what exactly are the shias guilty of?.........whatever it is lets blame it on the jews - they can handle it ............ so instead of murdering shias and sunnis, let`s focus on qadianis, hindoos, christians, animists, pervaizis, bahais and other riff raff ..............

Did some one noticed.....Both on CNN repeatedly ........and on BBC....BBC later some what rectified it and used a different language...


CNN reported...... Ashura ...as a Shite FESTIVAL.....

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Kyla:

You may recall how in The Master and Margarita, Pontius Pilate has incessant headaches after his mindless acquiescence to the crowd wanting to murder Jesus. Of course theological interpretations make it a fact that Jesus was meant to be crucified- wanted to be crucified- ie it was a foregone conclusion and his sacrifice would be the well springs of faith (though I believe in the book, Jesus did not really want to die- and thus the unending agony of Pilate).

Someone said something to the extent that history is always revisionist. We settle for the accounts that are most comforting to us that explain to us meanings in the ways we want them to be explained. Naturally truth will be a casualty in such cases. But who’s to say there is ‘one’ truth? It’s what we derive out of our historical interpretations that matter.

And much can be and has been derived out of Ashura. There are lessons to be learned in recounting and ‘reliving’ these tales of the supreme sacrifice. And most importantly because it is in such stories and tales that human history is best captured. I don’t see much difference in the ritual of praying or that of matam. They are or have the potential to both be an act of faith.

Now, people can argue that there is reverse psychology at work- since we cannot ‘sacrifice’ or stand up to principals today, we take solace in the past or that some want to secure their identity in a different way just for the sake of being different etc. But such cynicism is unfair. Because no matter what a person’s motivations and reasons for belief, in the larger scheme of things, it helps brings about diversity in faith which in turn helps keep a faith alive.

In the gross acts of injustices and massacres going on, the perpetrators are not acting because of any inspiration. It is because they cannot stand this diversity possible within a faith. The tragic irony would be that these perpetrators are only strengthening the symbolisms of Ashura- that one should be willing to die for faith.

``If a civilization is so dumb that it enacts a historical incident by bleeding small children, then no wonder this kind of tragedies would happen``

freesoul

According to your logic, the 2 million + shias all deserved to be `annihilated` since some thousands (possibly hundreds) were practicing bloodletting - sounds like collective punishment to me.

our `civilization` might appear dumb to you but it has been extremely smart to have survived cycles of oppression in every age, the latest being the age of Saddam. So no matter what any freesoul preaches, we are SURVIVORS and we are here to stay! and we`ll reenact karbala in your face every Year , no matter how many suicide bombers are dispatched by your ilk!

kyla

All formal religions do have this inherent capability of making their believers believe in the most illogical things & and make them carry out the most reprensible acts.

Kyla is a good name.

If a civilization is so dumb that it enacts a historical incident by bleeding small children, then no wonder this kind of tragedies would happen.

I am not supporting persecution of shiites or anyone else, but come on, stupid ppl deserve this kind of annihilation, be they in Iraq of Pakistan.

And I am not singling out Shiites. Just watched `passion of christ`. The abhorable way in which violence is portrayed to evoke sympathy for a foolish man, is kinda reminder for us that religion in all extreme forms r worst than cocaine. West might have succeded by subduing its religous biggots and idiots, but the danger is still there.

good article, kyla.

the extreme on the shia somehow consider all sunnis to be responsible for the death of hussain and sunnis extreme or otherwise seem to be in complete denial of one of the greatest tragedy in islamic history.

Kyla,

Thank you for writing your piece. It was thought provoking and sensitive. Bhittai has a valid point wrt the hadith.

The universality of Imam Hussain cannot be emphasized enough. Dickens, Gibbons, Gandhi, Premchand, Iqbal , Chishti amongst others acknowledged his impact on what it takes to make a stand. Gandhi as a symbolic gesture to that Supreme sacrifice, took 72 people in his Salt March (protesting British Colonialism).

As per some reports, Imam Hussain`s band included one Hindu pundit (Hussaini brahmins also actively commemorate Ashura in India) As per all accounts, his band also included a Christain, Wahab-e-Kalbi.

Hussain and his sister Zainab left Humanity with the best example of taking a PRINCPLED stand against oppression.

Your piece was a balm to a fresh wound.

To my simple little mind it`s utterly incomprehensible.

If someone slaps you - fine, slap back, if you must.
If someone robs you - fine, punish them.
If someone insults your parents - fine, give them a `gaali` back, if you must.

But to go on a bloody rampage against someone for having differing beliefs??? I would laugh out loud at the absurdity and idiocy of it if it weren`t so bloody tragic.

asraf-ul-makhlooqat my eye.