The Case for Sonia Gandhi!

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Mullah Urstruly#28,

``As a matter of fact 24000 roits in 30 years where about 17,000 Muslims lost their lives``

That`s an average of 0.7083 Muslim lives lost per riot. What was the comparative figure in Pakistan during the same period? Maybe your friend Romair can help you out.

it does not matter if sonia gandhia deserves to be PM or not...the indian voter does not want her...period...everything else is just noise...if people liked her, congress wouldn`t be in the $hitter that it is in right now...

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``and BJP is unstoppable `` (Nazar )......

it is NOT....

India is `shining` thru the Blackenedly Modified Mirror -- of that Blackcapped, Black heartted -- Baby-Burner.....Guj rat`s Blacksheep Modi.....

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re: Romair`s comment
`` Why did West Pakistani Muslims end up being the most upwardly socially mobile group in South Asia, from 47 to 90``
I had posted statistics in another forum how Indian muslims have benefitted mainly in the urban areas over the years but are still worse off than the hindus. In rural areas, the contrast was stark. One of the reasons given was that muslim women, even in urban areas, preferred not to go out and work and thus did not contribute to the family income.
Paki muslims are perhaps better than Indian muslims but is that something to be proud considering Pak`s literacy rate is abysmal (perhaps the lowest in South Asia) and Pak, in 1947, had inherited the muslim elite?
Re: this article
My vote is for BJP even though i do not like its muslim-bashing. I think that very cleverly ABV has placed the emphasis on economic peformance and taken the electoral politics away from religion. This is a good thing happening. BJP`s good point is its economic performance and there is nothing wrong in capitalising on it electorally. By making peace with China and Pak, ABV has made sure that trade is set to grow in future, bringing in more prosperity.
I am however disappointed that BJP does not talk about corruption as an issue anymore. Perhaps, like other parties, it too has become corrupt and has quietly buried the issue. If there is one thing that will prevent India from realizing its potentials, it is widespread corruption.
Sridhar

re: Romair idiot`s rantings
``Bangladesh, even after its freedom, is still extremely poor. Perphaps as poor as it had been with Pakistan. Many Pakistanis (including me) think it is good for both countries that it separated (I actually think it should have been a separate country from 47).``
Let me clarify and put to rest some misgivings that Pakis have vis-a-vis Bangladesh.
http://www.economicmiracles.com/bangladesh.htm
http://www.econimicmiracles.com/pakistan.htm


Bangladesh

Development index: 3%

Population: 132m

Absolute GDP: $ 203bn

Potential GDP: $6,500bn

GDP per head: $ 1,500 (117th out of 155)

Life expectancy: 58.9 years

Literacy: 40.8%

Human development index: 47.0 (132nd out of 162)

Economic grade: G2 to G3: Impoverished to very poor

Pakistan

Development index: 3.9%

Population: 144.6m

GDP at PPP: $ 282bn

Potential GDP: $ 7,230bn

GDP per head: $1,950 (105th out of 155)

Life expectancy: 59.6 years

Literacy: 45.0%

Human Development Index: 49.8 (127th out of 162)

Economic grade: G3: Very poor

So, Pak is a little better. The following article (from Url http://www.amherst.edu/~bamalik/docs/bangdadesh-frames.html) clarifies why Pak is a little better than Bangladesh:

``Under Pakistani regime, Bangladesh suffered both neglect and exploitation. As Fig. 11 suggests, there was a huge disparity between Pakistan and Bangladesh in terms of public spending (Dutta 23). Though the population of Bangladesh was greater than that of (West) Pakistan, only 28. 5% of the total of development expenditure was spent in Bangladesh. In addition, revenue collected in Bangladesh was also spent in Pakistan (Dutta 33). The fact that Pakistan’s Gross Provincial Product per capita in 1970 was 1.7 times higher than Bangladesh’s (as compared to 1. 17 times higher initially), also shows the growing disparity between the two wings (Dutta 55). Thus, the poverty and underdevelopment that Bangladesh was confronted with at the time of independence can be attributed partly to the slow growth in the 25 years during which Bangladesh was part of Pakistan. Bangladesh had ended up with a food deficit of 1. 5 million tons in the late 1960`s and investments in infrastructure, transport and communications had remained inadequate. Although Bangladesh had more cotton textile mills than Pakistan initially, by the 1970`s it ended up being the largest importer of finished textiles from Pakistan. The destruction during war of independence worsened the already underdeveloped economy``
So, is it then surprising that Bangladesh has taken sometime to develop and is lagging behind Pak a little. The difference is not much. Pakis have nothing to gloat about.
Sridhar

re:#8 by Romair
Romair the idiot has one desire. That is to see a civil war between Indian muslims and hindus and see India break up. This has been his favorite topic: Indian muslims are far behind Paki muslims and so there is going to be a friction.
The reality is: Indian muslims live a ghettoed existence and need to come out of it and be part of the mainstream. There are umpteen number of opportunites in India as sikhs, parsees, christians would testify. There is however no place for whiners.
Indian muslims have a lot to blame Paki muslims for their state of affair. The best muslim elite went for greener pastures (that is what one thought Pak was in 1947), leaving the poor and helpless mass of humanity behind to fend for themselves. Still, as Sadna showed in her post, the Indian muslims, given the situation they face, have not done badly.
``I must have come across three to five hundred or more Indias here in IT. I can count on my fingertips the number that were Muslims. Perhaps five to eight.``
So, out of ~ 500 Indian IT workers, you can count 5-8 muslims. How many Pakis were there? Do not tell me that Paki IT workers are doing better than muslim IT workers from India. Given the size and opportunities (no hindus to compete!), Pak is surely doing better than Indian muslims. Gosh, what has the Pakis come to now. They are now content to compete with their own counterparts from India!
Lest we forget, IT in Pak means ``International Terrorism``, which is what Pakis are now famous for.
Indian muslims are not in Guantanama Bay. Not even one. They are not being branded as terrorists. They are up against a ``hindu monolith`` called BJP but they still have a fighting chance due to constitutonal protection and fair legal system. The same cannot be said of Pak where Shias and Sunnis unleashed violence on each other recently. Let us not compare Indian and Paki muslims. Former score over the latter by leaps and bounds.
Sridhar

``The Indian constitution explicitly does not admit any discrimination on the basis of race or country of birth and Sonia Gandhi has the same rights as any other Indian citizen. If anything, she proved her allegiance to India by consciously choosing to become its citizen instead of moving to the safety of foreign shores despite the very real dangers to her life and the life of her children. Having made the decision, she has done everything to adopt the language, food, dress and culture of the land of her choice and to serve what she believes to be her family legacy.

So, if I had a vote, it would go to Sonia! (Dost-mitter)

it is the ONLY honest, fair and just statement -- coming out of the pen of an Indian Canadian -- who does NOT want to be discriminated against becoming -- the Canadian Prime Minister one day -- because he has no...... ``Canadian Roots``......

congratulations to my friend dost sahib -- for believing and then daring to state that golden aphorism -- that I often like to remind my Muslim brethren with -- do NOT DO unto others what you do NOT want OTHERS to DO unto YOU.......

where were you dost sahib....baRee der kee mehrbaaN aatay ataay......good to see your great post...

Dost-Mitter

I would also vote for Sonia - but for a very uncomplicated reason.
She does not carry the Saffron colour.

I have seen the Greenization process of Pakistan - from parrot green, to olive green and now the religious pundits chanting for dark Green. Once you let the religious camel in, there is no stopping.

But the Indian mood is presently riding high on the horse of `hope` - and BJP is unstoppable as was evident by the Ashis Sharma`s interacters on another board recently. (I buy you arguement that now India has picked up its momentum - and parties do not matter)

I guess India has to go through this cycle of Saffronization, old glory stuff - and get it out of its system - before it reverts back to its stable non-religious state permanent identity.

Few months back, I heard Advani saying on TV that now that Pakistan has been made - the Muslims have gone. Sadly, he was proving that TNT was right, something I still find not very convincing (being a silent admirer of Jay).

Anyway, this time it is BJP. The Congress will return - and with a thumping majority some time in the future.

#23 by AlephNull on March 8, 2004 9:54am PT

I think Mulayam makes a better PM when it comes to addressing our fears- although we are as safe/unsafe in PAkistan (or any other part of the world) as in India. But that is not what muslim political choices should be about. We need to get out of this mindset when it comes to making political choices- we need more space for our making choices- we need to articulate better to the political parties- ask them not to consider the mualavis and mullahs as our representatives of our weill- our aspirations. We need to articulate all the issues to them and then ask them to address in their manifestoes- this way we can get out of the mandir/masjid rut which BJP has forced on us since last decade. We have fallen into their trap and now Dost Mittar wants us to fall into the same communal trap.
Sonia is a front for her coterie- which is of the worst sort- Guys! You have no idea how she thinks. She is completely DUMB. It is her coterie that is controlling her and you have no idea that women like Ambika Soni are capable of.!! I would not vote for BJP , but certainly not Sonia`s Congress.

Romair # 8:

Good Analysis. Some fresh inputs!

Indian Muslims after the painful partition lost valuble leadership to Pakisthan. Now the people left behind are from lower middle class onwards. So if you would like equate performnace of Indian Muslims, you may have to do it with OBC ( Other backward Class ) Indians. Similar economic backgrounds and profiles. OBC`s could progress because of help from reservations etc.. Indian governament could not/can not enact reservations for other religions because - reseravtions are for the historical backwards/untoucables of Hindu society. Now if they permit reservations to Muslims/Christians then it presents a constitutional crisis. Muslims lost of there.

I know lot of muslim friends who could not afford professional colleges because of money/college fees etc..

Second problem - political leaders. I am from Hyderabad, India - and the local MP for last 7 terms ( 35 years ) is Salahuddin Owaisi. He represents the old city part of Hyderabad. There is no evidence that he ever spents any time on constructive issues like Infrastructure, Roads, Educations, Medical Facility for the city of Hyderabad. The only issue I have seen him spending time on was stoking communal feelings ( vote bank politics ), buildng Engineering colleges & Mediacal colleges where seats gets sold for higest bidders. Being an undisputed leader to Old City of Hyderabad - 80% Muslim population - he could have done wonders to community/Muslims in particular. Now he is into dynastic politics - promoting his son. Sad..

bye for now

Kalyan

I apologize to Dost but the case he has made against BJP and Hindutva is as flimsy as it could get. The fact of the matter is that the violence against Muslims in India is a norm and not an exception. Anti-Muslim Roits happened during the congress rule as well. As a matter of fact 24000 roits in 30 years where about 17,000 Muslims lost their lives. These are India`s own ministry of interior`s figures, which are grossly deflated. Only during Babri Masjid carnage about 6000 muslims were killed whereas government of India puts this figure to less than 1000.

Dost-Mittar,
The problem with the Congress Party is not that of ideology, but that of leadership. Congress has always been slightly left of center, but it is not beyond the tolerance limit for Indians. The real issue is the weak, uncharismatic leadership of Sonia which has guaranteed that Congress will remain the opposition party for the next several years. Her foreign origin is an issue, although it should not be under ideal circumstances. However, Indians are gaining self-confidence after a 1000 years of imperial rule. They have no stomach for another spell of rule by someone of foreign origin.
In any other organization, repeated failure leads to heads rolling with the top leadership getting replaced. However, the Congress is so obsessed with the Gandhi-Nehru last name that they just cannot bear to dump Sonia, in spite of repeated failure at the electorate. You have senior leaders like Pranab Mukherjee, Arjun Singh et al, slavishly licking her feet year after year, even though they know that she cannot lead the party to success. If this is not stupidity at its extreme, I don`t know what is.

I admit I do not know much about Sonia, but she is really not suitable to run India. My indian friends do not speak highly about her and it seems that she is actually a puppet of the INC. She also does not know the alanuage and raeds que cards in ger speeches. How can someone like her rule india.

maybe, she could migrate to Pakistan? where she might try her hand there. But she`d probably have to convert to Islam first.