Pakistan: Inside The Nuclear Closet

What does PUKESTAN stand to gain by having a bum.
A Bum which lays dismantled, by the orders of ``Dollar-Data-Bush``!

Instead:
The world should be scared of the ``tender loving care`` as dispensed by Pukistani Police force : Responsible for the death of 2 girls (8 & 5 years old), -Raped, Sodomized, Tortutred and finally killed for the pleasure of ``Madadgar``.

The world should be scared of the interpretation of Quran, whre a rape victim is expected to produce four good men as witness to the rape. Considering the statistics of convictions, it would either seem that Pukistani women are never subjected to rape, or that Pukistqan lacks four good men!.

The world should also be afraid of the debucherous and nefarious nature of Pukistani women, who are routinely beaten, maimed, disfigured, -before being brutally hacked down for bringing ``shame to the family``. JIYE! mere Pakistani Mard Bachche! for saving the world from the ``Beghairats``.

The world should be afraid of the ``Madrasah Graduate`` who is proficient in reciting Quran, Hating Jew, Christian and Hindoo, ready to mow down the enemy of Islam (which is always in danger!) with is AK47 (supplied by the Arab Patrons). He is also good at strapping C-14 to his body and detonating it, when ever he wants to hook up with seventy two virgins.

Do you want me to continue....

# 71

That`s a disgusting remark. You should realize that no one except you is getting devalued by saying that.

I may not agree with Dr. Hoodbhoy on the emotional level but one has to give

him credit for thinking logically when many others have been lost in sentiment.

We need more Pervez Hoodbhoy`s in Pakistan.

Ras

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kas #67 What you do in real life, sir, is your business (even if you were being serious in what you wrote). My concern is only with the interesting question you raised concerning what is Pakistani culture, and I am glad you found my views on it to be worth some further thought.

The next question you put (``But what makes us (Pakistanis) distinct?``) is an interesting one too. And I will venture to toss in my two cents worth here as well. I think the short answer is: Nothing. Differences between people (based on race, nationality, religion etc.) are vastly overplayed as a result of the undue emphasis on the ``secondary`` aspects I mentioned in my previous post. And no doubt with globalization differences based on nationality (along with stereotypes etc.) will dissolve as well. As a friend of mine in college said when we were discussing this question of identity that there are two kinds of people on earth: Men and Women. The only other distinction that makes sense I think is the one based on values we live by (i.e. honest vs. dishonest people; forgiving vs. hate-filled people; and so on).

You asked about reading material. I cant think of any from the top of my head. After all, on chowk we teach stuff they dont teach at Harvard (just kidding).

kas #67 And one more thing: I will indeed look forward to what you think of the idea that the only aspect of culture that is important is values, and all other aspects (customs, dress) are secondary albeit overrated. And thanks also for the courteous nature of your posts.

Tahmed sahib. Bahut shukriya.
You have given me a sinsible answere to my question. I need to digest your comments before I can respond to it. But, I still do not know what is pakistani Culture. I understand what you are saying but those things apply to all good societies of the world. Even to the Indians. I agree that we must all maintain certain basic, universally accepted values. But what makes us distinct? I have been reacting to the secondary cultural aspects but that is superfissial, I think and you correctly point out. What about philosophy? That should be a primary cultural quality that Pakistanis should be proud of. But what is our philosophy? Surely, it is not the propogation of carnage towards india, or else where in the world. I feel that I have no philisophy to hold on to. Can you recommend any recommended reading that will put me on a even keel. I feel that I am lost and totally useless sometimes. I work in the adult entertainment industry and participate in act that to some may lok immoral. Believe me although I enjoy it, I am doing it for the money only. I feel that once I become rich I can live a decent life somewhere else where no one knows me from Adam.
Right now I fel torn and often go through phases where i become pro Pakistan and then go the other way. I need some direction. So far on chowk I have found neither, except for some people, like you who have guided me a bit. I respect you sir for your advice. But I think I am a hopleless case who will just go down the toilet. The only thing i have going for me at this time is my health and good looks. That is why I am hired for the movies and also my part time work as an escort. My part time job as an escort is quite rewarding but it is not lasting. In the end I am paid for my sex and then away I go for the next trick. I want to become normal like you guys. But I am torn because of the good money I make. My family does not know this and I am ashamed to admit my failings to them. Please advise me. I will be gone for several weeks but will log in now and then to see your responses. I hope to be back on a regular basis in a few months, but I will be very busy with my next movie which will be shooting in Florida next weekend.
Sorry for using you as a sympathesized. You are a very kind hearted person. I hope I will meet you some day in person, but I am ashamed to do it now.

wajahat #59 On Japan and Germany my point was NOT what led to WWII (as you seem to think) but what happened AFTER the war ended: i.e. that 50 years after WWII ended, Japan and Germany still permit US forces in their country. Nor is there any public pressure against continued US military presence in these countries.

GIVEN the above, and given that the Japanese and Germans are by no means stupid, the obvious conclusion is that the Japanese and Germans consider US military presence to be benign - i.e. to their advantage. They do NOT equate US military presence with imperialism or anything like that.

My point is simply that we in the muslim world need to bring ourselves up-to-date (as the Japanese and Germans already are) and realize that the Colonial Era is over. It was over the day WWII ended. Thus, as I said earlier, if Iraqis were as knowledgable as the Japanese and Germans, they would see this as a golden opportunity to build a civilized society based on laws under the umbrella of the US military. They way the Japanese and Germans did after WWII.

I fear though that the Iraqis could easily miss this bus because their society is segmented along ethnic and religious lines, and abstract concepts like rule of law are not generally understood. As such, I will tend to agree with you that Iraq could easily collapse into a bloody (and ultimately pointless) civil war. That wont happen as long as the US military is present in Iraq. But if for some reason the US leaves before Iraq has had the chance to evolve democratic traditions, then it could happen.

Then there is this joker of a woman; Dr. Shireen Mazari``. Apparantly she heads some institute that looks after, and justifies the Pakistan Army/Rightwing agenda. She is shrill, vociferous, argumentative, and a liar; highly desirable traits, especially to prop up the present regime of Mr. Mush. She is expert in twisting the facts to please Musharraf (god knows where both of them would end-up after the Dems recover the Whitehouse?). In the article published in ``Nation``, she is lamenting the audacity of Nayyar report on the state of education (ha!) in Pakistan.

http://www.jang-group.com/thenews/mar2004-daily/10-03-2004/oped/o3.htm

It seems that Prof Nayyar has stepped on her tail. she has been coming out and swinging like a ``Cheap Ladakoo Bazari Laundiya``. I doubt whether she reads the garbage that is being spewed out by her. She is definitely in need of a thorough colonoscopy to check her brain functions.
I have ``googled`` her name and have come across the the lies she is spreading, her hatered for democratic values, compassion toward humanity in general; and poor Pakistanis in particular. She wants to keep the madrassah curriculum intact -may be she is on the take of petrodollars, may be she is in cahoots with Usama, Al Qayda, and Taleban. What ever it is, she is bad for Pakistan.
Dont you all agree?

Well said

kas #63 you ask ``What is Pakistani culture anyway?``

Easy. :-) The short answer is: Whatever you want it to be.

More seriously, I would phrase this question differently as follows: What aspects of culture is worth preserving? I submit that the only aspect of culture that is important are values (honesty, hard-work, learning, and so on). Everything else - language, dress, customs - is superficial and unimportant and as such of only secondary importance.

One may thus accept or reject these secondary aspects as appropriate without feeling compelled to do so. One may thus appreciate and enjoy good music and good food from any and all cultures (hindu, muslim, arab, european, chinese, japanese, african, whatever). And one may appreciate human achievements in various fields in all cultures (and in this way claim inheritance to past human achievements, regardless of which part of the world they were made in). And conversely, one may ditch what doesnt make sense in any culture (e.g. the various way in which women are suppressed in virtually all traditional societies; or the accordance of ``respect`` based on wealth).

Given this distinction between values vs. secondary aspects of culture, I think one can live a very comfortable and unconfused life in any corner of the world. You dont need to flaunt your Pakistani culture to anyone, but you can maintain an interest in it for your own personal reasons (that is, because your parents are from Pakistan). The fact that Pakistan has been at the cross-roads of history and a mixing bowl of civilizations dating back to the dawn of civilization 4,000 years ago of course makes it a rich country in terms of customs, archaeology, battlefields, history and so on. The fact that it has a people who are poor but proud and decent and hardworking, makes it that much rewarding to stay in touch with Pakistan and do what you can to help out.

Thus, I dont see anything confusing or contradictory in the rich history of Pakistan. I think it is something to enjoy and appreciate, while keeping in mind that ultimately all that really matters is maintaining certain basic, universally accepted values. Hope you agree.

#60 by tahmed32

I am going to refrain from recommending ideal treatment for Jay at Chowk, if I did I could be up for a ban.

You know, your comment regarding recommended therapy reminded of this picture someone sent me sometime ago, where this guy`s sack was nailed to the board and the look on this guy`s face said it all.

This sounds good while he seeks professional help.

Tahmed,
What is Pakistani culture anyway? Is it muslim culture? or is it Indian (Hindu) culture, since there was no such thing as Pakistan about 50 years ago. Is it Persian culture or Arab culture? Since we are a mix of these groups of people. Does Pakistani culture have any distinct features unique to Pakistan. You seem to be quite well read about these issues. I once asked my Dad about this but he could not define it. He said that we are actually Indians (not Persian or Arabs) who have focused themselves on Muslim idealogy. If we are really indians then why are we fighting with our neighbors like they are our lifelong enemies. At this time (I do not know before) there are many in our country who are more worse enemies of Pakistan than Indians!! So, are we fighting about land (kashmir) or are we fighting about idealogy (Muslim vs Hindu)? Having lived outside pakistan for more that half my life I do not know what the real issues are any more. Maybe you and the other smarter people on this forum can satisfy my anxiety. Am I the only one confused or are you guys also confused.

ferozk #50 Agreed that ``Peaceful transfers of power, and not elections, are bedrock of democracy. `` Actually, the fact is that in Pakistan all three military coups have been basically bloodless (although ZAB was hanged, even here Zia had to go through the motions of a judicial process where ZAB was charged with specific murder). This puts Pakistan a bit ahead of other countries where changes in government are often accompanied by widespread riots. The average Pakistani is also much more tolerant than is generally realized I think - in 1971 I remember Bengalis were openly celebrating their liberation in Rawalpindi and Islamabad, and there were no mob attacks or anything like that. Add to this the growing middle class, and I think the writing is on the wall - Pakistan provides fertile soil for democracy, and very poor soil for extremism. This is counter to conventional wisdom, I realize, in light of the jehadi lashkars spawned by Zia and tolerated for too long by musharaff - but nevertheless it is a fact.

This is the basic decency of the Pakistani people and the Pakistani culture that gives one confidence in the future of Pakistan.

pardaisi #51 You may be right in what you say. What treatment do you suggest for tripolar then? Extra-Strength Lithium, perhaps, with two pills taken after each electric shock treatment perhaps. What say you, doctor??

#40 tahmed

I do not really understand the relevance of the German and Japanese examples in the respect to the Middle East. Two points on that ground.

No Arab country as such has declared or have taken an aggressive war to the the western states. Both Japan and Germany did so. Most arab states are a client of the US, the problem with Saddam was the case of a valuable American Asset/dictator who became too ambitious for his boots and whose removal was aptly required for the mobilisation of the Imperialist agenda in the Middle East and to provide the comfort factor to Israel.

There is already evidence that the US is going to plan a strike or an invasion in Syria, this will in time be justified by whatever media brainwashing that goes on in the west. I strongly believe that resistance in Iraq will gain force and will become as potent as was the case in Afghanistan against the russians. I dont think that this saga will end in the Iraqis walking away with democracy tatoed on their foreheads and the Americans walking away with the oil. Signs are that something really terrible will eventually come out of this, a violent civil war and the ultimate heaven for the terrorist organisations. I recommend that your read ``Discourse on Colonialism By Aime Cesaire`` which talks about the occupied nations and the development of the resistance. I know that as individuals peace is all we desire, but we forget the intricate complexities of this world. The complexities are currently in play in Iraq, the kurd, sunni arabs ad shias and the occupiers all pushing for their vested interests. The devil is in the detail.

On Swords

I visit the London Museam of History from time to time, which contains a sword that was supposedly captured from Tipu Sultan, (recently moved to Windsor), and on seeing it, the blood of the repressed freedom Fighter in me starts boiling. On various occasions I have had some interesting chats with the curator about that particular sword and its maintainence. And as Kas points out, it is oiled from time to time. But again you are right too, it is sharpened normally when it is intended to be used. Unfortunately our swords like our teeth, our dikhanay kay aur and khanay kay aur.