Pakistan’s Hudood Laws: Extremely Misused

Jay,
have a shot at this, a dream come true topic for you..ins`nt it

I hope we live to see a day when the Ordinance is no longer part of our Constitution.

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(If the military government can`t change this law in ~5 years, what good is it for? )

Absolutely nothing.

Arjun said:
If the military government can`t change this law in ~5 years, what good is it for?


Come on Arjun, dont tell me you are going all mushy ?
The laws have not been repealed because it was the Army`s idea in the
first place. Who do you think put the laws into force in the first place ?

What did you expect from the Pak Army ? Turkey style secularism ?

These laws are directly from ``the book``. Nobody in Pak dares to
question them. Notice how the author states that the laws are being misused ,
as if it is some well intentioned modern law being badly applied.

The so called ``laws`` are clearly 7th century arab-desert code and is encouraging violent
behavior and revenge.

You are right on one thing though, we will now have the apologists blame the
feudals, poverty etc etc...

What to say? Just when you think there`s some hope for Pakistan, someone writes an article like this and we`re back where we started.

I can`t believe there is actually a debate on whether these fukkin laws are Islamic or un-Islamic, used or misused, can`t you morons see they`re just plain fukkin wrong?

``Some such high profile cases of the 1980s include 13-year old Jehan Mina, raped and made pregnant by an uncle and his son, and sentenced to a hundred lashes, reduced to 15 in view of her tender age. The blind maid servant Safia Bibi was sentenced to a similar punishment. In both cases, the fact that the raped girls had become pregnant was used against them, as proof of the sex act having been committed. The men were acquitted on benefit of doubt in both cases. ``

May God forgive you all.... cuz you have no fukkin cloo what you do...

Ms. Sarwar,

You are doing a disservice to your gender and to humankind by calling these laws un-Islamic. How are you doing this? you are making Islam look like what it is not. Islam is sexist and misogynist scripturally and historically.

Let me try to understand why you are doing this because we both have the same goals : to emancipate women and to end the Hudood Ordinance. Right?

We just have different methods of approaching this same goal. Right?

One method (1): To criticize Islam and the Shariah directly for being responsible for crimes against women.

Another method (your approach) (2): To absolve Islam of any culpability and hope that by saying ``Islam does not REALLY say testimony of women is half that of men`` you re-invent and re-interpret Islam.

Perhaps you dislike approach (1) because its aggressive, perhaps you think that it will only turn people off, perhaps you have revised your religion enough to truly BELIEVE that Islam is perfect and the one TRUE religion, perhaps you are surrounded by people who support Islam and constantly remind you of your heritage and beginnings and your race, perhaps you really love some patriarch in your life (perhaps a father figure).

Here is the thing though, static societies and cultures (progress resistant cultures and cultures that are filled with hatred) often take the approach you have taken which is : to re interpret old truths. To take something from the 6th century and say ``this really is not the right way of interpreting Islam, the prophet was really just to women he gave all of his 13 wives + the concubines one night each... ``. The trait of writing interpretations and commentaries and super commentaries is really the way of primitive societies.

Modern societies invent new truths. Truths that are relevant to their time. They don`t say ``Islam REALLY meant this ...``, they say ``The ways of the past were so and so dictated by such a religion but for today we will come together believing in a new value``.

You are young and not hardened in your ways. Please take the courage to cut the chord and break free and create a new foundation.

At last it heartening to see an article to tell the truth that honour killing is legal in pakistan and once and for to shut up the romairs, tahmeds and ylhs of chowk. The tragedy of education in pakistan is exemplified by the tahmeds ahere the education has only given them a vocabulary to hide the truth.

Tahmed is a classic example, a crude jihadist trying to be a moderate by attacking every criticism of pakistan as hate mongoring. By this relentless attack on me tahmed believes that he is a moderate. The fact is that with such a conviction in hois beliefs on what is right and wrong, tahmed is no different from a jihadist crossing the loc to kill the kafirs who are in the wrong.

96 by Romair on March 2, 2004 7:21am PT
stuka #91: ``Honor Killings are not deemed illegal.``

I hope you are not serious. Do you really think that honor killings are not illegal in Pakistan? If you do, could I ask you for your source of this information?

Killings of all kinds, in Pakistan, just like in other socieities are illegal. Why wouldn`t they be?
An analogy would be to say that killing Muslims is legal in India, just because Muslims were killed in Gujrat, and their killers were not prosecuted.

The above is a post by romair, in a long line of posts supported by tahmed, ylh and other pakistanis on chowk. This represent the tragedy of pakistan, the educated not accepting the reality of pakistan and believing that it is all a question of propaganda.

The real tragedy is that even after this article, the pakistanis will continue to insist that honour killing is not legal in pakistan. May be it is time that at least some pakistanis to accept the contribution of one indian in brigning this shameful pak fact open on chowk.

Who are the members of the MMA? Are they publically visible? (i.e. having spokespeople, etc)

re: Beena Sarwar

What is the point of this article?

If it is a paean to some misguided form of liberal conscience in Pakistan, it is misplaced. You and I can disagree with the nature of Hudood Ordinances all we wish and we will still be ignored and our pleas will fall on deaf ears.

The reality is that there is no tangible political will to repeal these ordinances and the Musharraf government needs the political support of MMA and it will not irk MMA. Musharraf government is presently seeking MMAs concurance on the issue of the national security council, as an act of parliament. In return, it will offer to maintain the Hudood Ordinances as a sop for MMA for sweetening its political resistence towards the national security council.

I personally disagree with the intent and the selective interpretation of the hudood laws, but I also understand that these laws will exist, because the political costs of repealing them outweigh the social cost of voiding them. The laws are a reflection of a patriarchal society, which is regressive and dehumanizing not only towards women, but also towards less previleged. There is no honor in these honor killings and the state of Pakistan is complict in the legality of murder, which these laws ordain. Women in Pakistan are not considered as citizens, worthy of the law`s protection, but as minorities with their own separate electorates and reserved constituencies and political representation. When a nation demonizes women legally and ignores their concerns about their own fate, it blurs the distinction between gender genocide and hate crimes.

The hudood ordinances are not a crime against women of Pakistan but they are, in reality, a crime against humanity and if Pakistani state will not stop them, there will come a time, when people, with a conscience from outside will end this inhuman and barbaric practice. The sands of time are already running out and either Pakistan abolishes these laws itself, or Pakistan will once more captiulate to international norms of behavior.

I agree with your anger and I second your concerns, but till these laws are ended, both you and I will have the consolation of being part of a murder and we will stand guilty by our inactions and silence, while the crime was being committed. The fact that our voices have no meaning in Pakistan and will be ignored, will not lessen the burden on our conscience and one day, not to a Pakistani court and not to an international court, but we will beanswerable to the Court of Allah for our deeds and misdeeds as our religion tell us. You and I and all Pakistanis are already accused and it is only a matter of time, before we serve our punishment.

Ciao

The recommendations of the National commission of the status of women should be taken up immediately... Hudood ordinance should be repealed, and legislation against honor killing should be brought out immediately.

Murder under sudden provocation is considered less liable because of the absence of Mens rea... as if the person wouldn`t do it if in a different state of mind... this position might be correct, but I think the principle of Equity which as much part of our British legal tradition as the rest of jurisprudence requires a different approach to the issue of Honor killing...

Looking superficially, the Pakistani women do not fare better than the ``Baqra``. Bought, consumed, and soon replaced. No wonder Muslim Men had to raid other civilizations to replenish the supply of ``Baqras``. Off late they have not been successful in their pursuit of fresh Baqras.
Often raped (incest could play a major role), she has nowhere to turn to. Her life is worthless. As soon as the girl attains maturity to bear children, she is married off to cousins (sometimes forst cousins). Such a segregation of genepool should result in a massive outbreak of genetic disorders. Surprisingly it is not so, The Pakistani population is hale and hearty! This could only mean one of the two things.
1) Laws of genetics do not apply to Pakistanis (Allah Be Parised), or
2) Pakistani women have found a way to avenge their honour by producing BA$TARDS.

I would recommend a DNA analysis of a sample population to acertain the true paternity.
what do you all think?

#13 by XeroxKhan

Nice (sarcastically speaking) you prove the quality of your upbringing and education with your post, congrats!

That`s what I think.....

What this article misses are stats about the social classes of the society that are impacted by the Hudood Ordinance. By the description of the use of the ordinance it is clear that lowest of the low classes or the poorest sections of the society are impacted mostly. That is one reason that this law would notbe changed/revoked or repealed unless there is a democratic govt. in place in Pakistan. Even then it would depend on the make up of the political outfit that comes to the stage.

If the middleclass or the upperclass were going to be impacted by these laws it would have been repealed a long time ago. At this time this law does not even find consistent and vocal opposition to it. Simply because the people impacted are not a factor in the social layers of Pakistani society.

This may appear to be a sort of left wing rhetoric but is there a better explanation of this law than saying that this law is as Islamic as the ban against the multiple marriages (Aaily Qanoon) is un-islamic? The law against multiple marriages would stay as it has strong support from the vocal middleclass and the upper middleclass. MMA or the religious parties have been making a huge noise about the repeal of that law for a long time or from the time it is in effect but nobody pays attention to it.

The Hudood or Zina ordinances are not likely to affect the middle class or the upper middle class and these laws will stay on the books and would be used or misused by the interested parties.

We must not also discount the police factor or the police station itself. Once this law is applied by the munshi(clerk) of the police station the burden of the proof is on the aggrieved party and in most likelihood that party, a poor girl has no means to beat this law. The Thanedar(police officer) likes the law as it saves him/her from making the effort to stick the crime to the alleged. These law are easy to stick and hard to defend.

How big is the impact of this law? The figures presented show that this law has been applied to women more often but it does not show whether the number of women accused of different crime has changed by that numbers. If the number of the accused women has not increased in proportion than it is safe to assume that this law is being used by the police itself for the simple reason that it saves them from additional work.

{{{In 1979, there were only 70 women in prisons all over Pakistan. By 1988, this figure was an astounding 6,000 (six thousand).
In three years (1994-96), the Women Police Station Karachi South, registered 113 cases against women, 94 out of which ((80 %), were registered under the Zina Ordinance. In 1988, 47 per cent of the women in Punjab prisons had been charged with zina.}}}

These are isolated numbers and there is no way to compare these numbers. The author has not provided complete stats. 6000 cases in 1988 all over the country do not look to be huge numbers. Neither are 94 cases from one police station in two years (1994-96) period.
The number of women in Jail in Pakistan at comparable time period and or accused of other crime has to be higher in a population of almost 150 million. If the base numbers are low then the percentages are going to look higher and that is not an accurate way of measuring the impact of a law over a period.

If these are the numbers, than it is a low impact law and likelihood of any govt. repealing it for political purpose diminish drastically.