Let Cricket Inspire India and Pakistan

re:#38 by amit
The bonhomie seen on cricket ground and among the spectators has nothing to do with the ideological differences that have plagued India and Pak for decades. Pak wants to change the status quo in J and k and went to every extent to do that but failed in the end. Meanwhile, India overtook Pak in economic development. So, how did all this bonhomie come about all of a sudden? Only months ago, India and Pak were facing each other in the border. How could they start talking about peace?
It is all a well thought out plan by politicians in India and Mushy. BJP thinks it can capitalize on peace with Pak and splitt the muslim votes going to opposition in the coming elections.
And what does Pak think?
Pak has decided that its image is tarnished by jehad and it needs to employ other means. Meanwhile, making peace with the Indoos is a good idea. Once the economy starts to improve, there is always time to renew the jehad. After all, the jehadis are still there, the apparatus is still there (only it is hidden now) and the commitement for jehad still exists among the Army elite. US also has been pushing Pak to make peace with India in order to facilitate hunt for Alqaida.
In short, nothing much has changed. If cricket can bring in peace, i suggest that the 2 countries should play a ODI in Srinagar. Let us see how long the bonhomie lasts!
Sridhar

re:#35 by gujjubania
``I have reached the conclusion after some rather deep and cool analysis that Pakistan is not really our enemy... ``
Looks like the JEE entrance exam has affected you deeply. What happened? Did you flunk the exam?
Sridhar

gujjubania alias shamsul (now deceased, alas) #47 That`s right. Please nobody should read my post #46. As gb advises us, it is really very boring. It talks of boring things like the brainwashed dimwits from India who come to chowk for purposes of exchanging insults (no resemblance to gujjubania of course, nor to his many wise colleagues). So please dont read it. It talks (in very dull prose, not worthy of reading by anyone) that these brainwashed dimwits represent only themselves - the losers in the Indian community. Very, very, dull stuff.

Please no one read it my post #46. It will put you to sleep, and you will have nightmares of half-brained zombies walking behind Uncle Jay Thakeray (who needs no brainwashing, having been naturally gifted with his pakistan obsession) chanting ``pakis are bad people....pakistan is doomed....yes....doomed....``

So, dont anyone bother to read my exceedingly dull post #46, as gb thoughtfully points out.

gb: hope you are grateful I reinforced your message.

#42 by satyamvada on March 25, 2004 1:21pm PT

You can be real blunt!!!

Yes! It is the mullahs and their spewing religious conspiracy theories complete with its violent resolution that remains the main problem for Pureland. The stupidity behind the theocratic bearings of their pureland is the `root cause` of their current miseries.

tahmed420

You lack the basic intelligence to comprehend Jay`s posts. So please don`t even try to comment on them, you just reveal your own stupidity.

Your immaturity is revealed through your post #46:
``Not to worry! I have known Indians in real life, and have lifelong friends among them - and all this before some of these turkeys who show up spouting their hatred for Pakistanis were even born.``

You are making the same mistake that a lot of educated peace-loving liberal-thinking people make, irrespective of where they are born or where they live, mistaking People Like Us (PLUs) for the real thing. The fact is that you will PLUs wherever you look, if you look hard enough- in India, Pakistan, US, Azerbaijan, Sudan even. That don`t mean sh1t. I won`t even try to explain, what with only half a brain at my disposal, the intricacies of international relations and realpolitik to an enlightened intellectual such as yourself.

I would only humbly request that you stop editorialising and making sweeping self-serving generalisations. If you have anything specific to comment on my post #8 please do so. Otherwise you`re wasting your time and mine.


Have a nice day.

soundmeister #52 Not only am I too stupid to comprehend the brilliance and wit of Jay Thakeray, I am too stupid to make head or tail of your post too. It all reads like gibberish to me. But thats just me. I am sure what you have written is some kind of code, and it only SEEMS gibberish.

But dont let me ruin your day. I see no Pakistanis wasting their time anymore with you losers on this board, and so you are end up talking to one another about what a bad country Pakistan is.

So dont let me interrupt your zombie talk about Pakistan and Kashmir and what not. And be sure to shuffle behind Uncle Thakeray, moaning about ``Pakistan is dooomed...India`s GNP is bigger than Pakistan....Pakistanis is doooooooomed....``

There could be a simple barometer to gauge the extent to which pakis(the govt and the common man) have turned a leaf vis-a-vis their hostility towards India.

1. Number of jihad donation boxes and amount of money they generate for Jihad against India.

2. Crowd size at the jihad camps where likes of Massod Azhar and others openly propagate hate against India.

3. Terrorist activity in Kashmir after snow melts.

Any decrease in any/all of these activities would signal a positive change. Otherwise - it doesn`t matter much cricket you play.

Re:rshirdhar#49
The dynamics of Indo-Pak relations is not a top-down phenomena in either country. Irrespective of what the BJP wants or the Pak army wants, no one can force the common people of both the countries to be nice to each other. The underlying strong chemistry between Indians and Pakistanis was always well-known. This natural chemistry was suppressed by the governments as well as fundos on both sides. You add the insecurities related to jihad, nukes, military strength etc. and you had the feelings converted to extreme hatred. It is no different from the extreme hatred that you witness in a divorced couple that once had a very intense relationship.
So what has changed ? For starters, thanks to the nukes, there is a military stalmete in the subcontinent. Neither side can change the status quo by force. Covert operations and militancy won`t work either because at the end of the day it has to culminate in a military loss and that is impossible with nukes. The flip side to this is that both sides feel secure about what they possess. Secondly India`s brilliant performance in the economic area is acting as a motivation for Pakistan. They want to catch up. Everyone admires a winner and Pakistanis are admiring the fact that Indians can get their act together and perform. Thirdly Pakistan`s own policies have boomeranged on them with devastating effect especially on the jihadi front. Fourthly India wants to become a superpower and is eager to rise above the squabbling with Pakistan. So the elite on each side is interested in better relations. Once the elite has stepped aside, the dividing issues are disappearing and the common man is interacting with each other based on pure chemistry. Why would the ordinary Pakistani refuse to take payment from an Indian tourist ? Do they do it with any other country`s visitors ? I don`t think so.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

amit #56 One more thing: I wonder if the warmth and hospitality of these matches has left the warmongerers on both sides wondering if the peace process has gotten out of hand. After all, it is going to be a bit hard to continue demonizing Pakistanis in India (and Indians in Pakistan) once these matches are over.

But lets keep our fingers crossed - the show aint over till the fat lady sings. And the fat lady isnt singing until the test matches are over.

amit #56 This is the first insightful analysis of the situation I have seen on this board. I fully agree on the reasons you indicate. These are indeed the underlying factors that provide momentum to this peace process.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Now that everybody is so lovey-dovey, I will do my share.

Here is a little story as it appeared in
http://www.goodnewsindia.com/Pages/content/memoryspeaks/story/173_0_12_0_C/

Feb 04, 04 -- MemorySpeaks: UP
A `family` that was Hindu and Muslim

Dr S D Sharma, now 80, is in retirement. He reminisces about a `brother` who went away to Pakistan but stayed in touch till he died.
“I grew up in Kanpur, where my father was a doctor. Ours was a large family, and my mother was known for her strict ways with children. We were nevertheless, a merry band of 10 children -- siblings and cousins--, that lived in the rambling house. Mummy, as we all called her, showered us with love, but could be a real tyrant if we did not study. For her it was imperative that we do well in school, as she intuitively knew that learning was the key to the greater things in life. And what was even more remarkable was that she had the same view for both boys and girls
“One of my father’s good friends was a Muslim trader. We knew him as Khalid Chacha. He was an imposing man, with a long beard and we were always in awe of him. One day, Khalid Chacha came, holding the hand of a young boy, maybe 10 years old.
``That is when I first met Umar. Umar was Khalid Chacha`s son, and was, as we learnt later, a naughty boy who hated studies. My father and Khalid Chacha had decided that only Mummy could get him to study, so Umar would come and live with us, in our home.
“Umar turned out to be a lovely boy and he became my best friend. He lived with us for over 10 years, till he passed his BA. Initially it was hard to get him to study, but later it was Umar who decided that he preferred living with us, even though he had to work hard at his books.
“In 1947, Umar’s family left for Pakistan. We were bewildered, hurt, sad and also a little bit angry at their decision to leave. But we did not know the power of love. We all thought we would never see him again.
“Umar Bhai died in Rawalpindi in 1990. Each and every year till then, political conditions and regulations permitting, Umar made his ‘pilgrimage’ to India. As the rules demanded, he had to fill in the names of people he would visit. And the names would be those of my family, all Hindu names. This surprised the authorities so much that once they asked him why he came every year to meet Hindus.
“His answer was the simple: “They are the only family I have”. ``The heart has its reasons that reason cannot understand,`` said a French poet. Well Umar Bhai proved it in a remarkable way.”
Dr Sharma now lives a quiet retired life in Delhi. He wonders what became of Umar`s children. Do Hindu and Muslim children grow up in the same household now? Or has the Partition put paid to all that?
--Anuradha Bakshi

Maybe you`re just getting over excited, but it`s ironic you should say that, considering that in 1971 Pakistan was not aggressing against India.

tahmed/amit,

The li,itations of your analysis and the cricket bonhomie is that it does not find the indo-pak issues in the context of the basic value systems and the world view of the people who inhabit the two countries. Indian pak friendhip as one can see on chowk is limited as long as the talk is about cricket and other pleasentries. No one wants to talk about the impact of k for kafir education or the other realities of pak social values, the fountain springs of ino-pak paroblems.

No tahmed talks about the k for kafir education, he does not even want to admit that identifying a hindu is a curriculum requirement, and no amit wants to ask the imploication of this. The lotus eating amit cannot find its link to jihad, killing of kafirs and no tahmed will dare to post even on chowk that ``jihad is not killing of kafirs`` and thus take on the dominant pak view. The great tahmed will say only that he is against all killings, he will not mention jihad the key worl that molds pak minds.

The so called peace and anti terror actrions of pakistanis are not the out come of any change in fundemental perception or a vision of pak future, it is only an expedient action to get the money from the US, it is pure prostitution by the pak military. There are no efforts what so ever to change the k for kafir education. There is no attempt what so ever to change honour killing laws, as I said on the board on legal aspects of honour killing, tahmed and YLH were very noticeable by their absence.

Cricket will make no difference as can be seen on chowk, tahmed is there on this board, he was not there on the honour killing board. If he were to be there, it would have implied that he has read the article that sya that killing is legal inh pakistan. That is why there can be no indo pak peace, pakistanis never accept the reality

............kashmir runs in our blood and it is an integral part of pakistan!

.............. i just wanted to go on record and say it before we get too carried away with this lovey-dovey nonsense of hand holding, back slapping, hugging, kissing and generally disgusting behaviour which puts richard simmons to shame ..............

.......... what the heck has changed?......... why, all of a sudden, are the pathetic pakis so willing to bend over to please the bania who has killed, raped and pillaged the kashmiris for three generations?............ or was it just our imagination?.............. is the heeng-eating horrible hindoo simply a figment of our islam-dulled imagination or does he really exist ?.......... and what about the poor kashmiris?......... are we going to abandon them now that they have finally decided to do something instead of putting their guns in the sun and waiting for them to go off by themselves?........... we used to laugh at these poor miserable creatures , taunting them with cries of ``tupsi tey thus karsi !``............ finally, they threw off their silly blankets and discarded their little built-in space heaters and took on hanuman`s horde .............but now we are willing to abandon them to the blood thirsty followers of kali ma (of indiana jones fame) just because we want to play cricket .........what!......... what happened to ``kashmir is in our blood`` ?

.............. before i jump on this tanga, with all the other peaceniks, i want to see: an official statement from the foreign office in islamabad reversing pakistan`s position; an apology to the kashmiri people for screwing them for fifty plus years; disarming of the army - which doesn`t serve any purpose other than running the cricket board; an admission from the mullahs that hindooism is a better religion than islam (since it won); and, finally, i want to see a formal surrender at the race course in pindi with musharraf bending over to touch veggiepie`s feet .............

.............untill all this happens, i am sticking to the ``official`` position and will continue to call my friend jay a horrible hindoo ............sorry, but unlike the tahmeds of the world i am a man of principle..............