Let Cricket Inspire India and Pakistan

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soundmeister: I read from your ilog a few days ago after I wrote my earlier post where I referred to geniuses like as as being ``half brain``. I also happened to glance at the ilogs and noticed that you felt irritated at being included among the ``half brains``.

I now see that it took you several days (!!) to come back with a retort (``twinky brain``). Ha! Ha! 7 damned days to get back!! That proves that even ``half brain`` was an stretch in your case.

As for the rest of your post: there are two types of posters on chowk - those with chips on their shoulders (aka morons, the ones who post ethnic, religious, personal insults of the kind they would never dare to do in real life) and the normal people. I dont enter into discussions with your kind (i.e. the moron kind). Only with normal people. I am happy to exchange insults (if I have the time) with your kind, or to ignore you. But I dont engage in discussions with you. So dont expect me to respond to the rest of your post.

I had no answer when my nine-year-old daughter asked the other day why all those soldiers were standing guard on a roadside near our home in Islamabad.

``Is there going to be a war?`` she asked. I didn’t have any answer to that either. But the kind of security that is being mobilised and military muscle that is being shown off must have some reason. It couldn’t just be a show of power to subdue the masses, as they have sort of reconciled with the idea of living under the shadow of the gun. But this movement of troops and their positioning well within the city limits is something new, especially when there is no emergency situation declared by the government. Is it for SAF games? Is it linked to the WANA operation? What is it?

There are many questions, but no answers. The powers there-be seem to be in a panic. They are doing a good job at panicking the people too. Why do the guns that should be pointing at the ``enemy`` are pointing at

//////tahmed,

The above is from jang of today. The sense of fear in that little girl is what the pak society has created, bit by bit, by people like you, you tahmed by asserting that honour killing is a practice by the tribal with no sanction by the pak legal system, by ylh by repeating that there are streets every where in pakistan named after abdus salam and there is no discriminations against ahmadias, by romair through his views that kashmir killings are by the locals with no invilvement by the pak jihadists.
tahmed the fear expressed in the above quote is a reflection of the pak society, so are my posts, may be they are reflections on a distorting mirror, but you cannot deny the fact that it is a reflection of the reality.
Personnel attacks on me will help no one, it will only hurt, not me, but the millions of pakistanis, the poor and the uneducated, who expects the educated to tell the truth, who expect the elite to make a small move, a small step in the right direction.
Write a post about abdus salam, show an act of defiance, grow a spine, stand up from the permanent stupine, throw down the burden of TNT, smash a picture, may be in private to make a beginning.

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tahmed

``Aside from that, they had nothing but good memories of growing up in pre-partition days. ``

This is so very interesting..I have heard this from almost 100% of the survivors including my parents (both about Karachi and Lahore). They however were witness to bad stuff even in Karachi ... apparently there was something called idgah maidan, and a lot of netas were calling for violence and getting it done.

So, if memories were good before partition, bad during, bad after, ergo partition was stupid or just plain criminal?

#94:

That is EXACTLY what I have been thinking. The Army no longer needs an external threat to justify its predominance. It can stay in power bybeing the provider of stability and security.

Re: gujjubania#100
Instead of trading insults, let`s have a healthy debate. My thought process is similar to that of Vajpayee, unless you think that Vajpayee is an idiot. I want India to be a global power in every sphere. That can only happen if we rise above the squabbling with Pakistan. It seems that the environment is changing in Pakistan and it is a great opportunity for India to resolve outstanding issues and forge a new relationship.
We have got to come up with some kind of compromise solution on Kashmir. That need not include any transfer of territory but it can involve some kind of power sharing arrangement along the lines of the Good Friday agreement in Northern Ireland. We can allow free flow of people and goods in Kashmir, as well as provide large scale autonomy. The federal items like defence etc. can involve some liaison with Pakistan. Also we need to consolidate the gains of the peace process so that it becomes irreversible. As time goes by, Indo-Pak relations can become similar to that of US-Canada or Germany-France type relation. The ideologues on both sides will cringe and try to derail the process but I think both sides do want to settle the dispute and move forward.

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Pakistan is an ``ideological` state - so that means the ideology is paramount. The
state is only a means for the upkeep of ideology. Who are the enforcers of the
ideology - Pak Army (which includes the Mullahs).
What is the ideology - glory of Islam by eliminating kafirs and taking back of all
land usurped by the hindoos.
The Pak Army and the MMA are the same - they are two sides of the same coin.
The ideology of the PPP and PML are not different either. A large number of the
islamic related laws were introduced by PPP or PML. Why did they do it ? because
their constituents demanded it.
There is no such thing as a ``secular`` party in Pakistan.

hossp and stuka seem to regard the Army as just being interested in power.
The problem is that they have an ideology to further also.

Musharraf again recently in the India-Today summit raked up the Kashmir issue.

There is nothing that has happened till now that is substantially positive which shows
that the Pakistani-state has changed its ideology. Until that happens there can be
no peace between India and Pakistan,.

jay/arjun: I see you have posts addressed to me. I didnt bother to read them other than a quick glance at Arjuns post. I have read enough of your one-string (``Pakistan is nothing, India is Everything``) posts on chowk to waste more time with you.

btw: Your claims of pakistan is nothing are belied by your obsession with Pakistan in virtually every single post you write. Another example of your self-contradictions that come with dishonesty and lies.

You two dont need a discussion - you need a shrink.

Plats at # 85:

``Do us a favor and decouple maligning Pakistan from maligning Islam. Pakistan
is not the sole torch bearer of Islam, nor should it pretend to be. ``

I never said that Pakistan is a torch bearer of Islam. All I said is that Indians malign Pakistan and Islam as mutually exclusive events.

Indians, the ones I highlighted, would malign Pakistan on supporting terrorism all over the world on one interactive board/topic. As a mutually exclusive event, they will criticise Indians Muslims on another topic. And as another mutually exclusive event, they will criticise, Islam for allowing 4 wives, 72 hoories, slaughtering the animals, etc. on another topic. However, sometimes all these events do become mutually inclusive, like ``Indian Muslims are backward lot, inclined to terrorise the society under Jihadi influence from Pakistani ISI, their Salfi (now whatever that is?) Islam promising the dead 72 hoories in Jannat``.

nazarhayatkhan at # 82:

``The South Indians have been quite aloof in the past and were never deeply involved in the Indo-Pak affairs. They seem be more critical about the normalization of relations between the two countries. ``

I regret this delayed notice of your post to which I would definitely add:

My interaction with South Indians during international travels suggest that they are indifferent to India-Pakistan relations. As Hindus and Muslims too, they have intermingled. Religion plays little role.

Therefore, the characteristics shown by those claiming to be south Indians on this website are very unusual. Except for Harimau, who is definitely a proud traditionalist, the remaining seem to be too tied up with anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam posts. Some of them like Dr. rsridhar`s Hindi is too good for a south Indian.

Too many south Indians may have `appeared` on the site perhaps when some Pakistani was posting ``break-India`` posts in the past and in the process was highlighting the divide between north Indians and South Indians (somebody once mentioned to me it was YLH). Since in virtual world, people have no idenities and they are faceless, some posters assumed the role of south Indians to show that there is no hatred between the two communities. The same may be true with Indian Christians on this site. I bet if someone consistently posts messages on Dalits being anti-India, we will definitely see few Dalits on this site.

The only Indians who can, and definitely have, anti-Pakistan and to some extent anti-Islam feelings (because Islam in a way was the cause of it), would be those whose forefathers had to leave Pakistan at the time of our independence under threats, leaving all their goodies behind. Chiefly amongst them would be Sindhis, because they became ``landless``, followed by Hindus of Punjabi origin and then other north Indians. Advani is a prime example of this category.

jang #101 I am glad to read that your parents reciprocated the same views as mine did, even as our respective parents had to go in opposite directions. I would certainly agree that the half-million lives lost on both sides was too heavy a cost to pay for the partition. All three governments involved at that time - the departing Brits, India and Pakistan - are accountable for the mess they made out of partition. They had no business doing this without having a well designed and rehearsed plan to ensure law and order during the interregnum. If the partition had been like that of the Czech and Slovak Republics (i.e. civilized, without any ill will), only then would it have any justification.

In any case, the entire question of partition is becoming irrelevant as the concept of statehood itself is eroded by powerful economic and technological forces that are beyond the control of any national government. In other words to globalization. So, all this chowk chatter about India-Pakistan politics has no relevance to the real life changes that are taking place even as we speak, imho. We will in future see local self-governments and global ``quasi-governments`` (some mixture of coalitions, UN, regional communities as in EU) becoming more influential.

By the way, as a Pakistani I think I owe your parents an apology for the trouble they had to go through on account of Pakistan. And, here is something you might want to let them know if you wish: After reaching Pakistan, my family received a house in exchange for the one we left behind. My grandparents lived in that house, and we enjoyed visiting it, sleeping on the rooftop under the stars, playing in the backyard with flowers lovingly maintained by my grandmother. When I grew older, I sometimes thought sadly of the hindu family that had been forced to leave that house and all the memories associated with it - just as my family had been forced to leave our house behind in India. Now that our grandparents are long gone, last year we (the grandchildren who inherited it) finally all agreed to sell the house. Each of us grandchildren received about Rs. 90,000 each. I dont know about my cousins, but all of us (self, brothers and sisters) gave ours to a medical charity since we did not feel this was just any old property.

#103 by amit
//.. We can allow free flow of people and goods in Kashmir, as well as provide large scale autonomy. The federal items like defence etc. can involve some liaison with Pakistan. ...//

You are going overboard here. You just had a good cricket series - nothing more. So take a cold shower and think. You are dealing with Jihadis here - in uniform or out of it - it don`t matter. You don`t do give-and-take thing with Jihadis. Any concession, even if symbolic will put fire up their a## and they would want more.

Kashmir has enough autonomy for their own good. Their economics are well-taken care of and down the road they would benefit more from a booming nation-wide economy. Their much-vaunted cultural identity is well-protected, much better than their counterparts on the other side of border.

They have all they need to have successful existence. More autonomy wouldn`t bring anything more - in fact it might even work against it. ( latest bill on womens rights is case in point)

Any liasion with pakis on anything is out-of-question. Paki regimes are unstable and undemocratic.It is wise to keep them out.

Tauheed at # 105:

``btw: Your claims of pakistan is nothing are belied by your obsession with Pakistan in virtually every single post you write. Another example of your self-contradictions that come with dishonesty and lies. ``

If these two (?) idiots think that Pakistan is much inferior a country to India, then they should leave this website and spend time on American, French, Russian, Japanese and Chinese discussion boards, since India is perhaps more at par with them :-)

Yet, I bet they do participate in those boards, but posing as extremist, Jihadi Pakistanis (the terrorist variety who can never show up on virtual world), like gujjo or some other moron had once claimed that he does it too, to malign Pakistan and Islam.

A poster on Chowk viz. Faisal Uno had once posted, after he noticed too many Indian posters with surnames as Khan on Chowk, that Pakistanis had discovered an Indian faking as Pathan and posting messages to malign Pakistan on another website, that he was caught red-handed and given a shut up call. So the conspiracy is happening. I wonder how can Pakistanis combat that?

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