Junk-Urdu Phenomenon

I have few concerns too:
can we have one word instead of the whole story...

Fridge = pani thunda karnay ki machine...oops err err ..make it pani aur khana thunda karnay ka bara saa dubba...

generator = bijli chalee jaayay tau aap ki zindagi asaan karnay wala aala

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Hi Kabir,

There is no point in being a purist in language, because any language is a dynamic evolving entity. As our life becoms more and more sophisticated, the language also changes to keep pace with it. I still remember desperate attempts by hindi purists to come up with a desi phrase to describe lawn tennis - ``Hari ghas pe le danadan, de danadan`` referring to the back and forth movement of a ball on a grass court :-)

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Well, I agree with the author to some extent, but I think normally the people who mix urdu and english words are the ones with limited vocabulary of either language, and their inability to communicate effectively neither in english nor in urdu, hence the crude mixture. These people are often the ones going to average pakistani schools where education standards are not that good, but they want to sound educated, modern and fashionable by speaking whatever english they know.

On the other hand the well educated people in pakistan also mix urdu and english but they mix whole sentences and not just words, which shows that they have enough command on both the languages but they choose whichever language serves their meaning better. For Example:

`Main nai aap ki khidmat main eik guzarish arz ki thi, but I doubt that it had the desired effect`

So i think there is nothing wrong with using such language as instanced above.

One more thing, Urdu is nothing but a mixture of different languages itself, there are hardly any words in urdu which are not taken from other languages. As far as my knowledge goes, the reason why it is called the lashkari language is that it was invented by the efforts of soldiers of different linguistic backgrounds trying to communicate to each other, so it is not a language but a name given to a mixture of different languages. Even in our National Anthem, all the words except `KA` are taken from persian, and this word `KA` is also used in hindi, so we can say that our national anthem is not in urdu.

But I may be wrong!

Urdu`s homage to Panjabis:

Mirza Rafi-Sauda:
Sunaya raat jo qissa voh HeerRanjha ka
To ahl - dard ko Punjabiyon ne loot liya

If anyone remembers the beautiful and loving jokes about the Lahore-Lucknow cultural colorfulness. This IS the time and opportunity. In true Lahoree spirit, let us mutti-pao on this dry-boring subject and enjoy and celebrate our appreciation for each other.

In true cricket-fashion I say.

``Kul univer--sity meiN kissi suit-posh sey
poochha yeh mein Nein ``aap haiN kya koee seargent``?
kehnay lagay ke ``aap ko yeh bhhee nahee putaa!
I`m am the head of the Urdu department``

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dilavar figaar

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#1,amit:
``Hari ghas pe le danadan, de danadan`` - I thought that would be sex!

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Kabir:

ah another purist:)

don`t worry...urdu is resilient...

adaptation is another name of urdu...

rgds,

t

Get in line after the French Ministry of Permitted English Words

Traffic Signal [English] = [Hindi] `Aavak Jaavak Soochak Danda`

but last thing from Kbir reminded me...

Urdu hey jis ka naam, hamee`n jaantey hei`n Daagh~~~
Saaarey jeha`n mei`n dhoom, hamari zubaa`n ki hey!!!!!!


I salute to all those persons who worked/working for Urdu.
esp. friends in MicroSoft who managed Urdu support in next comming versions of MS Windows.

I agree with the author. Urdu still holds the charm in speaking and writing.
But it has many environmental effecting it is absorbing...
Talking about Poetry...
Urdu Poetry is still holding some words, synomns and phrases which
donot have any direct relationship with the people, culture and there
ways of living and communication. Taking the example of Pakistan
inheritance of Sub-continent`s richness. Therefore it doesn`t look
appealing when a person living in planes, a city habitant uses words
like:

Munjh-dhar (I passed by Ravi n Chenab, and opened my eyes wide to
see a clue of deep waters but failed to have any, so how come
a munjh-dhar can originate from waterless rivers.)

Dasht-
Sehra (Talking about Dasht is also beyond imagination as
man has now civilized enough not be a wanderer but settled
down nd gone are the days Majnoo Calling Laila in Dasht
and words circling Qabilas and Camels.)

Bulbul (If you ask from any child residing in main cities to know
or seen any bulbul, fakhta, maina in real than kid will
blast a cracker in your mind.)


Mehtaab (I think these words have been tired of glowing as there meanings objects have)
Khursheed

Kaleeja
Jigar (There were times when people were aware of sentiments associated with thm
Now people have a mind filled with the diseases they carry to stimulate health
hazards.)


Majnoo (Replacements have come but they are not given much praise)
Laila


I am not criticizing some obseleteness but fresh urdu words must replace urdu
rather injecting english and making it junk.

Kabir

Urdu is already a laskhari lanuguage. Let the original words from other languages mix in.

Let Missile be missile in Urdu. Let atom be atom in Urdu.

If you try to Urduize Missile through Persian or Arabic, you end up with the most unconvincing and a difficult word.

Enrich Urdu directly by the local South Asian languages - Punjabi, Sindhi, Hindi, Sansikrat etc. Eventually aim to have Urdu/Hindi just one language.

The films & media have already done it.

Dear Kabir saahib:

I fully endorse your views on the corruption of Urdu by the media. By the way, have you ever listened to FM radio channels? I guess they are worse culprits of them all. Not only they use a ridiculously slangish Urdu-English amalgam, they also *speak* in a mock English accent! Can anybody believe this? Can anybody imagine a Spanish speaking his/her native/national language in, say, the Japanese accent? Isn`t this border on lunacy?

And what`s more, they don`t even know proper English either. Just ask them them to stop using Urdu words and speak plain English ... and our ``presenters`` would start babbling the next sentence!

However, I`m not convinced with your following assertion:

``From a historical perspective, Urdu is a Lashkari language; therefore, we are led to believe that the pasting in of English words and phrases into Urdu is acceptable.``

I think it`s a myth that has acquired the shape of a gospel that Urdu is a mixture of various languages. Sometime back I wrote an article on the subject ... an excerpt here:

THE ORIGINS OF URDU:
Everybody and his neighbor knows that Urdu is a hybrid language and
was *born* after the invasion of the Perso-Arabic-speaking Muslims
when they had to interact with the native population.

Right? Wrong! On many accounts.

We see that Urdu is a totally independent language and apart from many
loan-words, it has nothing to do with Persian. The grammar has
remained almost entirely intact. The Persian izaafat can be easily
regarded of as borrowed phrase and not
grammatical rule.

Some people also mention the method of pluralization of some
Perso-Arabic words in Urdu, like kitaab --> kutub; masjid -->
masaajid; manzil --> manaazil, etc. are a testimony that Urdu grammar
is influenced by Persian. But the argument is ditto: the
local ``Urdu`` words are not allowed to be pluralized using this rule.
Just imagine bandar --> banaadir or mandir --> manaadir :)

But leaving grammar aside, Persian also could not affect some
fundamental nouns of Urdu like basic relationships (maaN, baap, beTaa,
beTee, bhaa`ee, behn, maamooN, naanaa, daadaa, chachaa and, even,
saas!), basic numbers (aik, do, teen, chaar, paanch, das, bees, sau,
etc.), important organs (aankh, naak, kaan, moonh, honT, haath,
Taang), and so on.

Also, according to Martynyuk`s statistical article (published in Urdustudies.com),
the 20 most frequent words in ``written`` Urdu language (which
-- according to my limited mathematical ``skills`` -- constitute about
38.4% of the entire Urdu corpus) do not contain a single Perso-Arabic
word!

This is sufficient to prove that Urdu was not *invented* by Muslims
and was already present in Delhi and adjoining areas at the time of
Qutubuddin Aybak`s conquest of Delhi in 1193.

---

The question is -- according to the popular belief -- if Urdu was
really created by the interaction of Muslims and the locals, why no
new language was produced in other parts of India - for example,
Punjab, Sindh and Bengal -- where similar interactions had taken
place? Why not in the NWFP province, where the entire
Pashtu-speaking population converted to Islam?

The theory that Urdu is a mishmash of several languages has been
rebuked by many linguists, both Western and native,
but none more expressively than Dr. Shaukat Sabzwari in his book,
Daastaan e Urdu:

aik nazariya (theory) jise maiN Ghair-sanjeeda (non-serious) samajhtaa
hooN ye hai k Urdu khichRee hai: chiRiyaa laa`yee chaaval kaa daana,
chiRaa laayaa mong kaa daana, donoN ne mil kar khichRee pakaa`yee.
(1987)

The fact is that no living language of the world can be immune to
outside influences. Look at English: it has borrowed extensively from
languages from around the world -- including Urdu -- but nobody calls
it an amalgam of those languages. This borrowing occurred in many
other Indian languages as well.

Zaf

SOmeone told me that Urdu Academy of Letters actually translates english words in Urdu, and they came up with this translation for Car Indicators.

Barqi Qumquma barai tabdeeliye Rukh

Can anyone say that the Urdu spoken by the PAkilanders is the `CORRECT` one and that spoken by the Indian Hyderabadi Muslims `INCORRECT`= the choice between UK English and the American English is again a matter of Political positioning of your preference.