Tariq Aqil March 31, 2004
#21 Posted by flyhighkites on March 31, 2004 10:41:21 pm
(#1- #18)
Gentlemen:
Be good. Why make a poor lady who was visiting Pakistan for personal reasons the playing-out field for our emotions?
Other things that I have to say:
Why do we have to drag in the Hindu-Muslim factor in to everything? Most of Pakistan`s issues (such as entrepreneurs and corporations not reaching the $1bn mark) are independent of Islam or anything like it. And they can be dealt with by keeping religion out of the picture. I do not mean that religion/ faith system can ever be kept away from the normal business of life, but let`s focusing on issues of life by keeping religion constant. No one`s religion prevent them from being successful entrepreneurs, nor MAKES them successful entrepreneurs, so let`s put an end to those nonsensical arguments.
Second, Ms. Wadia must certainly have emotional feelings about Pakistan and her father... who are we to dictate a ruling for or against that? Everyday in life, thousands of persons take decisions that take them away from their families, the families` traditions and beliefs, and even countries of residence. There must be scores of the same on Chowk who are residing in foreign lands and marrying inter-faith, inter-culture against the wishes of their families. Should anyone go on about deciding that these persons have betrayed their countries or have no more feelings for their families?
On the other hand, it is also fair that if they ever return, not much should be expected from them. Ms. Wadia`s visit was non-committal, non-emotional at least for the public. What her personal feelings were, we do not know, and we must not decide. But as a public figure, the fact is that she gave nothing to Pakistan except revive a memory of their father. she didn`t talk to our press, she didn`t address the nation. Nothing`s in us for her, or in her for us.
So, logically: her only significance is that she is a living reminder of her father, and let`s shed a few tears when we look at her face so similar to the Quaid`s - and then leave it at that. The lady never made any committment to Pakistan, it is a fact. Let`s accept it. We will fail our own expectations if we set them wrong and high. Let`s focus ourselves elsewhere.
Good to have you over, Lady Wadia. And thank you for the glimpse of Quaid in you.
Gentlemen:
Be good. Why make a poor lady who was visiting Pakistan for personal reasons the playing-out field for our emotions?
Other things that I have to say:
Why do we have to drag in the Hindu-Muslim factor in to everything? Most of Pakistan`s issues (such as entrepreneurs and corporations not reaching the $1bn mark) are independent of Islam or anything like it. And they can be dealt with by keeping religion out of the picture. I do not mean that religion/ faith system can ever be kept away from the normal business of life, but let`s focusing on issues of life by keeping religion constant. No one`s religion prevent them from being successful entrepreneurs, nor MAKES them successful entrepreneurs, so let`s put an end to those nonsensical arguments.
Second, Ms. Wadia must certainly have emotional feelings about Pakistan and her father... who are we to dictate a ruling for or against that? Everyday in life, thousands of persons take decisions that take them away from their families, the families` traditions and beliefs, and even countries of residence. There must be scores of the same on Chowk who are residing in foreign lands and marrying inter-faith, inter-culture against the wishes of their families. Should anyone go on about deciding that these persons have betrayed their countries or have no more feelings for their families?
On the other hand, it is also fair that if they ever return, not much should be expected from them. Ms. Wadia`s visit was non-committal, non-emotional at least for the public. What her personal feelings were, we do not know, and we must not decide. But as a public figure, the fact is that she gave nothing to Pakistan except revive a memory of their father. she didn`t talk to our press, she didn`t address the nation. Nothing`s in us for her, or in her for us.
So, logically: her only significance is that she is a living reminder of her father, and let`s shed a few tears when we look at her face so similar to the Quaid`s - and then leave it at that. The lady never made any committment to Pakistan, it is a fact. Let`s accept it. We will fail our own expectations if we set them wrong and high. Let`s focus ourselves elsewhere.
Good to have you over, Lady Wadia. And thank you for the glimpse of Quaid in you.
#20 Posted by flyhighkites on March 31, 2004 10:41:21 pm
About the lamentation on the state of idealism in PK:
We are floundering in ideals and idealism. I believe the Pakistani nation`s eternal quest for identity and a need to determine the ultimate Pakistani Dream is too much of a good thing gone bad by its very excess.
It is true that we need a direction and a strategy, but it`s also infinitely better to focus on positive actions (which can be determined by common good sense) rather than remain in an eternal futile search of ideals.
Wa-Allah Aalim
We are floundering in ideals and idealism. I believe the Pakistani nation`s eternal quest for identity and a need to determine the ultimate Pakistani Dream is too much of a good thing gone bad by its very excess.
It is true that we need a direction and a strategy, but it`s also infinitely better to focus on positive actions (which can be determined by common good sense) rather than remain in an eternal futile search of ideals.
Wa-Allah Aalim
#19 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on March 31, 2004 10:00:52 pm
Romair
(But I have an in-built dislike for people who gain a certain status, through ancestory)
It is part of our South Asian culture that if the Father or Mother has done some good - we feel in gratitude to the siblings as well, in fact to the family. And like to show our emotions and good wishes for them.
Good or bad - this is how we are. It is a good cultural trait, is quite selfless and is in good faith provided it is kept within limits. This is what makes the East different from the West.
Only at times, we do go overboard and even make Prime Ministers out of them.
#18 Posted by Ras on March 31, 2004 7:56:20 pm
Dina Wadia should be welcomed by all Pakistanis.
But she cannot be used as a symbol of nationhood via genetics.
The Quaid helped to create a country but it was the people that accepted it.
It is THEIR children that need to make it work.
Nostalgia is nice but drinking water is better!
Ras
#17 Posted by plats8 on March 31, 2004 7:20:55 pm
Ahmadzai,
``Now the fundoo Indoos may be resenting her visit to Pakistan, the only fact
is that she visited her MAYKA as an Indian citizen, was treated as as a state guest,
was not glorified in any manner, returned to her Susraal``
Trust me, no Indian is resenting anything about Dina Wadia`s visit. Most people don`t
even know who she is; her only reference point in India would be Nusli`s mother.
But tell me, how does someone raised and married in Bombay think of Karachi
(or was it Lahore she visited) as her ``mayka`` ?
``Now the fundoo Indoos may be resenting her visit to Pakistan, the only fact
is that she visited her MAYKA as an Indian citizen, was treated as as a state guest,
was not glorified in any manner, returned to her Susraal``
Trust me, no Indian is resenting anything about Dina Wadia`s visit. Most people don`t
even know who she is; her only reference point in India would be Nusli`s mother.
But tell me, how does someone raised and married in Bombay think of Karachi
(or was it Lahore she visited) as her ``mayka`` ?
#16 Posted by arjun_m on March 31, 2004 7:20:54 pm
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#15 Posted by Romair on March 31, 2004 6:50:25 pm
ahmadzai #9: ``Romair please note that Pakistani Government treated her as state guest, but no more than that.``
State guest is pretty much the highest status that a state can give to a guest. It is no joke. It is a protocol reserved for visiting dignataries. It is not based on likes or dislikes. Vajpayee and Advani should be treated like state guests. Not Dina Wadia. It has nothing to do with personalities.
rozaiba #12: ``Mohar: Qaid-e-Azam opposed anything unconstitutional.``
This can be looked at in two ways. Jinnah was a Constitutional dictator, i.e. an elected dictator. Albeit a very good and very honest one. I have always argued that this is exactly what Pakistan has needed and still needs.
His govt. was a one-man show. He appointed himself the governor-general. Lived an extremely elitist life, with more in common with British aristocracy, than with a normal Pakistani. His control over his own party was tighter than Benazir`s control over her party. He was, in all practical terms, its head for life (much like Benazir).
There was no second-tier leadership to take over from him, when he died. Perhaps because the party was a one-man show. Muslim League was unfortunately not an institution. It was him and his typewriter. So, you are pushing it a bit, when you say he opposed anything Unconstitutional. He, himself was the Constitution. He could mold it, write it, turn it into anything he wanted.
Having said this, he was a great man. And a Constitutional dictator, like him (or Lee Kuan Yu), is exactly what Pakistan needs today.
His daughter never bothered much about Pakistan. Nor apparently about her own father (and I guess the feeling was mutual). That is her own personal choice and business. But, I think one needs to do something for a country, or be a foreign state dignatary to gain a state guest status. One cannot just do it through a membership of the, ``lucky sperm`` club.
Its great that she visited. But I have an in-built dislike for people who gain a certain status, through ancestory or through rhetoric, without doing anything. So I am still more interested in the visit of Sardarji Singh from Amritsar.
State guest is pretty much the highest status that a state can give to a guest. It is no joke. It is a protocol reserved for visiting dignataries. It is not based on likes or dislikes. Vajpayee and Advani should be treated like state guests. Not Dina Wadia. It has nothing to do with personalities.
rozaiba #12: ``Mohar: Qaid-e-Azam opposed anything unconstitutional.``
This can be looked at in two ways. Jinnah was a Constitutional dictator, i.e. an elected dictator. Albeit a very good and very honest one. I have always argued that this is exactly what Pakistan has needed and still needs.
His govt. was a one-man show. He appointed himself the governor-general. Lived an extremely elitist life, with more in common with British aristocracy, than with a normal Pakistani. His control over his own party was tighter than Benazir`s control over her party. He was, in all practical terms, its head for life (much like Benazir).
There was no second-tier leadership to take over from him, when he died. Perhaps because the party was a one-man show. Muslim League was unfortunately not an institution. It was him and his typewriter. So, you are pushing it a bit, when you say he opposed anything Unconstitutional. He, himself was the Constitution. He could mold it, write it, turn it into anything he wanted.
Having said this, he was a great man. And a Constitutional dictator, like him (or Lee Kuan Yu), is exactly what Pakistan needs today.
His daughter never bothered much about Pakistan. Nor apparently about her own father (and I guess the feeling was mutual). That is her own personal choice and business. But, I think one needs to do something for a country, or be a foreign state dignatary to gain a state guest status. One cannot just do it through a membership of the, ``lucky sperm`` club.
Its great that she visited. But I have an in-built dislike for people who gain a certain status, through ancestory or through rhetoric, without doing anything. So I am still more interested in the visit of Sardarji Singh from Amritsar.
#14 Posted by rsridhar on March 31, 2004 6:08:42 pm
re:#2 by Romair
``But shouldn`t someone have done something for Pakistan, to get a, ``special`` status amongst its people. ``
So, what exactly did Morarji Desai do to deserve the highest civilian award (Nishaan-e- Pak?)?
Sridhar
``But shouldn`t someone have done something for Pakistan, to get a, ``special`` status amongst its people. ``
So, what exactly did Morarji Desai do to deserve the highest civilian award (Nishaan-e- Pak?)?
Sridhar
#13 Posted by AlephNull on March 31, 2004 4:01:24 pm
rozaiba #12:
{{Qaid-e-Azam opposed anything unconstitutional.}}
How about Direct Action Day? Eh?
{{Qaid-e-Azam opposed anything unconstitutional.}}
How about Direct Action Day? Eh?
#12 Posted by rozaiba on March 31, 2004 2:45:27 pm
It doesn`t matter where Dina Wadia lives, what she does etc. She is Baba-e-Qaum`s daughter and I will worship her. You heard me! This is pure hero worship!
Mohar: Qaid-e-Azam opposed anything unconstitutional.
Mohar: Qaid-e-Azam opposed anything unconstitutional.
#11 Posted by kaurasach on March 31, 2004 1:00:40 pm
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#10 Posted by jang on March 31, 2004 12:24:41 pm
#2 by Romair on March 31, 2004 11:08am PT
Could someone explain exactly why Dina Wadia is a celeberity, or deserves to be treated as a State guest?
She is important because she came with Nusli, chief of Bombay Dyeing. It is common practice to be nice to big-shot industrialist. In any case, its more important than hosting Hawk Hunting parties with minor Saudi princelings, (did you object to that in the past).
Could someone explain exactly why Dina Wadia is a celeberity, or deserves to be treated as a State guest?
She is important because she came with Nusli, chief of Bombay Dyeing. It is common practice to be nice to big-shot industrialist. In any case, its more important than hosting Hawk Hunting parties with minor Saudi princelings, (did you object to that in the past).
#9 Posted by Ahmadzai on March 31, 2004 12:24:41 pm
Although this is a very well written and timely article, I tend to agree with Romair at # 2.
Romair please note that Pakistani Government treated her as state guest, but no more than that. Her visit to Pakistan was not projected at all. Even the newspapers and electronic media did not go overboard.
In his appearance in News Night on PTV today, President Musharraf mentioned that she called him for thanks only when a journalist mentioned to him that he had received a letter from the lady asking him to say thanks to the President on her behalf.
Now the fundoo Indoos may be resenting her visit to Pakistan, the only fact is that she visited her MAYKA as an Indian citizen, was treated as as a state guest, was not glorified in any manner, returned to her Susraal where she is expected to live happily ever after, that is about all.
Btw, Tariq, great job as mentioned in the last paragraph of your article.
Romair please note that Pakistani Government treated her as state guest, but no more than that. Her visit to Pakistan was not projected at all. Even the newspapers and electronic media did not go overboard.
In his appearance in News Night on PTV today, President Musharraf mentioned that she called him for thanks only when a journalist mentioned to him that he had received a letter from the lady asking him to say thanks to the President on her behalf.
Now the fundoo Indoos may be resenting her visit to Pakistan, the only fact is that she visited her MAYKA as an Indian citizen, was treated as as a state guest, was not glorified in any manner, returned to her Susraal where she is expected to live happily ever after, that is about all.
Btw, Tariq, great job as mentioned in the last paragraph of your article.
#8 Posted by mohar11 on March 31, 2004 12:24:41 pm
#3 by rozaiba
//...THE QAID OPPOSED THE NON-VIOLENT MOVEMENT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A POPULIST ONE. ..//
Jinnah opposed Non-violent movement? Are you sure? I mean - what exactly was his plan to get rid of the British? Or organize people to fight for their rights? I mean - for rest of the world - the non-violennce is the best way to do such things.
Boy - the more I know about this guy - the more bizzare he appears.
//...THE QAID OPPOSED THE NON-VIOLENT MOVEMENT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A POPULIST ONE. ..//
Jinnah opposed Non-violent movement? Are you sure? I mean - what exactly was his plan to get rid of the British? Or organize people to fight for their rights? I mean - for rest of the world - the non-violennce is the best way to do such things.
Boy - the more I know about this guy - the more bizzare he appears.
#7 Posted by i-am-the-cheese on March 31, 2004 12:24:40 pm
the lady has a horrifying sense of dressing and no style at all... besides that little fact, i felt it very sad that quaidooz daughter was in the country and it was all so unemotional, private and tightlipped... also, she needs to lose those leggings
#6 Posted by gujjubania on March 31, 2004 11:22:30 am
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