Dance of the Seasons / American Amavasya

Hello,
i had read that letter and i am also interested to know the lyrics of this lovely poem. if any one is having these lyrics please post me bcas i want to recite these for my daughter who is very fond of listning to stories
regards and thanks

vivek

rahul - You mean E D Galgotia was the wrong place to be looking?! Only kidding - wish I knew this when I was in Delhi ... next time .... Your book chasing adventures sound like fun! Unfortunately travelling with nazuk nri kids limits what one can do to making sure they`re ok and little else. I do treasure the book I found though. BTW the ``bahooria`` quote is awesome.

sadna, Thanks for the info.

``Have you noticed how people from the older generation often come up with an appropriate doha/saying from appropriate source (including Kabir) to make a point? ``

Oh yes ... and it didn`t come from reading books either!

sadna #25
A highly literate and prosperous society obviously creates an entrepreneurial model for the aspiring writer where s he can poistion her his writings and cater to the taste of the public. This would certainly lead to a reasonable amount of good literature being produced. I have read enough bangla translations to recognize this fact. Vimal Mitra , Asha Poorna Devi,Sunil Gangopadhyay etc. are prolific and good writers. Its like John Grisham or Sidney Sheldon would generate a lot of clones. Among the hindi heartland, a similar situation exists with regards to the the adult detective novels,which you can buy at 10 to 20 rs.
While comparing a Vimal Mitra with a Sidney Sheldon or Hindi detective novelists may be a tad unfair(to vimal mitra who has written some fantastic works for eg. sahab biwi aur ghulam) , the fact remains that visionary writers who shaped their respective eras, like saratchandra, tarashankar bandopadhyay, premchand etc. cannot be produced by any formula.
Hindi writing,IMO, has done more than a reasonable job of being politically aware. In modern times I would like to give the example of Dushyant kumar. It is said that dushyant kumars writings during the emergency in 1977 were one of the reasons that caused its withdrawal.For other important literary events that occured due to political reasons In regional languages one can cite the example of Sohan Singh pash in punjabi and Qazi Nazrul Islam in Bangla.

rahul #20
I generally agree with you, but for example the boom in English writing in the 1800s took place in context of an interested reading public. Dunno if highly literate WB and Kerala too are examples of this.

roohi#23
Guess what, I too went looking for Kabir some years ago, but down south. There were a few largish compilations - one to fulfil requirements of the university`s Hindi syllabus which contained Kabir, another a comprehensive one published by Kabir panthis(a religious sect) if I remember right. There were so many dohas I couldn`t locate the ones in common usage.

Another small book/booklet, part of a series on Indian writers/poets published by the Sahitya Akademi, was quite comprehensive in commenting on Kabir`s life, literary style, his religious philosophy/theology, his apparent misogyny. Among their choice was his observation on the Kumbh Mela of his time, on the ostentatiousness of the sadhu akhaDas - processions of chariots and firing of cannons have nothing to do with self-realisation he said :).

Another compilation is out there in the usages of the general public. Have you noticed how people from the older generation often come up with an appropriate doha/saying from appropriate source (including Kabir) to make a point?

roohi..actually I also went to Delhi in October, and did the same search..but I guess I was more succesful than you :-) next time go to Rajkamal publications 8/9 Daryaganj.You will get everything..Or if you want to order from where u are...I will try to find out if they have a catalog...My other search was far more interesting..I was looking for Manto in Nasataliq (the urdu script) for a pakistani friend..and I travelled in numerous lanes of delhi..it was a fun experience..finally i got the books and also came to know that manto is in the curricullum at the Jamia Milia Islamia New Delhi .
Normally what we read about Kabir is just the dohas.And yes even there we know only the most popular ones.But one facet of kabirs poetry that is largely been ignored by the text books is his mystic/Sufi poetry. He was not just a social commentator.He was the main poet of the nirgun kavya dhaara.I remember a first line - ``Ram more piyoo mai raam ki bahuria`` (Ram is my beloved and I am his bride)
A unique display of relationship of God and us and a fantastic gender inversion in the same line !! This from a person who believed in a form less god . There are more facets to Kabir than we would know.

Rahul,t,Sadna

... about Kabir, on my last trip to india I searched for a compilation of Kabir`s dohas in all the fancy-shmancy stores in Delhi and Gurgaon but found nothing. Then on a a train trip whistle-stop at Mughalsarai in UP I found the best compilation of Kabir ever on one of those railway platform thela bookshops. It was by Raja Pocket Books and honestly all the Kabir we know is the tip of the iceberg going by this book ... for example you know the dohas

sukh mein sumiran sab karen, dukh mein karen na koy
jo sukh mein sumiran karen dukh kahe ko hoye

and

mala pherat jug bhaya, mita na man ka pher
kar ka man ka dari de, manka manka pher

well these are only 2 dohas out of 69 (yes sixty nine!) from ONE poem called ``Sumiran ko aang`` in this book.

There are 70 poems all with titles ending with ``ko aang`` such as Guru ko aang, Prem ko aang, Saangat ko aang etc. even a Maasahari ko aang (a very stern scold of maasaharis)!

I also found a good compilation of Urdu poets in devnagri with explanations of difficult terms on one of these railway thelas, this time in Jabalpur, MP.

I think appreciation of literature is alive and well among the masses ... now if only it would trickle up we might see some of this stuff on the internet.

temporal #21
UP in general and Allahabad and Benares in particular is somehow recognized as the headquarters of Hindi literature.Many great magazines and institutions have been founded here. But, now bhopal in madhyapradesh is also a big centre of Hindi literary activity. As for the language , Hindi is the first language in the Hindi heartland of Bihar, MP ,UP and Rajasthan. As for the other states, there is a three language formula under which they read there own(vernacular) language, Hindi and English. Hindi does have a pan indian presence as far as comprehension is concerned, except in Tamil Nadu, but Hindi literature only comes from Hindi Heartland. There is another spin to this as far as language as the choice of literature is concerned. It encompasses choosing Sanskrit or Hindi over the other popular(vernacular) languages , so that a section of the society could be discredited from becoming a part of the literary canon.This is too complex an issue for me to even try and scratch the surface here.But if I do get time(and more importantly relevant reference books),I will try to write on this in future.

rahul:

bhai those are not my translations!

yes, will look forward to it...also please clear the confusion... i thought hindi had a home in india in places outside of UP too...

rgds

t

sadna #19
IMO, Quality of education is certainly reflective of the appreciation of literature, but not to the quality of literature produced itself, at least not directly. The only parameter that can affect is the blatant oppression by state. There is a school of thought that says that good literature arises not out of protectionism and affluence but out of social movements, like the socialist marxist and the dalit movement in India. Hindi poetry has done a remarkable job of always keeping up with the ethos of society and political state of the country. Where i would totally agree with you is the appreciation part. I dont think there are many people who will be able to name 5 modern hindi poets if they have not studied hindi academically at the graduation or post graduation level, though even then I am not sure.But that does not mean that good literature is not being created.
temporal #18
Your translations of Kabir are quite good.Different eras in Hindi poetry and literature mostly correspond to social trends that have been recognized by one or two of the dominant personalities of the time , and also as a reaction to some of the pratices of the preceding era.I will get back to you regarding your queries about the nature and evolution of Hindi poetry.
Later.

roohi /Nandini :) #12
I too studied that in school! Will try to find the rest of it..

rahul_capri #17
Wish someone prominent would introspect on the state of education in UP, that will give a clue as to why the state of Hindi poetry is what it is.

roohi and rahul:

Kabir’s dohas

:)

sadna #10 your use of the term chaayavad was apt, and so I wondered.I dont now if I can call myself a poetry buff, but I do enjoy reading poetry more than any other form.
roohi #12
I have certainly heard that before,and thanks for recreating it.It brought back some sweet memories of my childhood.I will see if I can find the full version.The other famous kahani, by her is of course, the one of jhansi ki rani.Funny how u say Amitabh Bachchan`s daddy :-)
temporal #13
The sites thats roohi has given are quite good.But this chasm of scripts is really frustating sometimes.To give you a general idea of Hindi poetry, lately, since probably the last 40 years, after the end of ``Chayawadi`` era, Hindi poetry has become totally introspective.Its not the sort that can be recited in mushairas or quoted in mehfils, except perhaps in the case that the mehfil is of poets only. Most of the important modern Hindi poets like Muktibodh and Dhoomil have been relative unknowns and have lived a life of poverty and struggle. I dont think there is any significant readership of modern hindi poetry currently in India.This reflects in the internet presence as well.There is far better presence of Urdu potery on net than Hindi. Though for all the other linguistic purposes I consider Hindu and Urdu to be the same, for the purpose of poetic classification there is a vast difference, both in terms of structure and meter, and subject matter.
There are some poets like Harivanshrai bachchan and Dushyant Kumar who have been popular and succesful, and you probably would find them on internet.If you would like to read anything special, I will try to get the Roman version of it.

t, nice site thanks for sharing. the hindi ones are not available in that many scripts yet, that I know of, but it will come in time (I hope) - hindinest has a lovely section on kabir that has ``roman hindi`` and english and french translations ... http://www.indianest.com/kabir/

all I can offer, sorry

nahiN behna!

... would need a site like This where you can go to AND READ Shauq her rang raqiib e sar o samaaN nikla in Urdu, Hindi or in roman Urdu… and if it is explained…all the better…but even if it is not explained as well as frances pritchett has done at least has the option to read it in ‘roman’ hindi…

later..

t

Hello t,

Have I confused you enough :) ? Yes the same ... kids are a little older, one started Kindergarten this year! I did try and get a new handle with my name but they were all taken - just figured how many will read anyway.

Hindi sites ... the ones I know are all in devnagri which would be a problem no? If not they are

http://www.hindinest.com/

http://www.manaskriti.com/kaavyaalaya

http://www.anubhuti-hindi.org/

take care

nandini, bajpai, roohi!

let me stick with roohi...the roohi of old...the ozzi mom of two hyper-active devils...right?...you still there or here now?

...also

...can you recommend a good hindi poetry site for the hindi-challenged?

lve

t

Rahul/Sadhna,

I like the chayavaadis also. Nirala, Pant, Mahadevi Verma and Jaishankar Prasad even Amitabh Bachchans Daddy. Funny after all the english poets I read the strongest influences when I started to try and write poetry were Hindi poets I probably only read in grade school textbooks!

BTW does anyone remember the name of the poem by Subhadra Kumari Chauhan that started this way ...

maa keh ek kahani
beta samajh liya kya toone
mujhko apni nani?
kehti hai mujhse leh cheti
tu meri nani ki beti
keh maa keh leti hi leti
raja tha ya rani?

tum ho hati mandhan mere
sun upvan mein bade savere
tat bhraman karte they tere
jahan surabhi manmani
jahan surabhi manmani?
han ma yahe kahani!

or something like that anyway from what I remember ... It was the story of Prince Sidhartha (Buddha) and the swan as told to son Rahul by Yashodara ... anyone remember it?

T,

Thanks … !

Nandini

bajpai:

welcome

....nice economy of words and movement...good blend

rgds

t

#9

uhoh. Not being a Hindi poetry buff, I didn`t mean chayavaad with a capital C, but a generic habit of using nature/season as a participant in/metaphor for human experience or emotion.

As in Mira Bai
``barsey boondian saawan ki
saawan ki man bhaavan ki``

Or in songs
``Phagun mahina phooli bagiya
aam jhaDey ambraai
Main khiDki sey
chup chup dekhoon
Ritu basant ki aayi``


``ghar aangan van upvan upvan
karti jyoti amrit sey sinchan``

sadna #8
``I have a soft corner for chayavaad..``
No kidding ! The only one I liked among those was Nirala.
What other hindi poets do u like?

roohi #7
Hi! Long time indeed, good to see you.

I have a soft corner for chayavaad :).

hey sadna,
long time ... glad this worked for you.

trinity, rahul,
thanks.

Ignore comments 1,2,3 and 4.

Its a beautiful read blending American and Indian seasons/festivals.

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V nice. No ABCD problem here.

I remember complaints about how in homes where both are celebrated, bright and happy decorations of Diwali clash with dark scary evocations for Halloween. You reconcile them v. neatly.

Don`t mind #2, either.

Nice effort. And if you are new, please dont mind #1.

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