Jehad and The Curriculum

re: echoboom # 95

The correct spelling for ``Vana`` is Wana.

Jinnah hated the British? Where did you learn this gem of misinformation? The local madrassa for the intellectually and mentally challenged? lol

Jinnah spoke in a British accent; had his clothes hand tailor made at Savaille Row; Jinnah gave up his Sindhi robes for British tailored suits and lived like a British lord; mimicked Joseph Camberlain as his role model and borrowed the idea of the monocule from him and borrowed the Asterkhan cap as an idea from Kemal Ataturk. Jinnah went into a self imposed exile in England when he wanted to leave Indian politics. All of Jinnah`s speeches were in English, spoken with a British accent. Jinnah married a Parsi girl.

There was nothing about Jinnah, his personality or mannerism, which was not British influenced and he politically disagreed with the British politics, but be never hated the English. Jinnah was so English in his manners that he never ever experienced the hospitality of His Britannanic Majesty in any Indian jail; he was more at ease in the dining halls of the Empire than he was in the villages of India. Jinnah the champion of Muslim rights, as you claim, drank wine with relish and each friday religiously avoided the mosque. lol

Everything you ridcule in others, was present in Jinnah! lol If you want to truly blame us for for being more foreign than native; blame Jinnah becaus he was, and remains, our orginal role model! :) lol

As to the neo-cons, they will cleansed by the Americans in the elections of 2004 and not by Muslims ``working from the inside for the greater glory of Islam``. :) The only Muslims working inside for the greater glory of Islam are inmates cleaning the cages in Gitmo under the supervision of the United States Marine Corps! lol

Ciao

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94,

How do cultures change? Does change come from below, or from above, or from outside? Who is responsible for the change?

The tide may come, but smart people build so the tide won`t destroy their homes. Cultural preservation is the mantra of all people, even the Americans. To suggest that any other culture has remained fixed in time is simply a lie.

Digestion of new ideas need not lead to radical cultural/value shifts. Problem occurs when we have outside forces, with insider minority who support these outsiders, demanding incorporation of new ideas be followed by shift in culture or values. This is when we have repression, and knee-jerk defense of culture...because it is under attack. Wartime mentality is always like that, weather by fundos in Pakistan or neo-cons in America.

This is not about free-flow of new ideas. If that were the case, then ideas would be left to stand on their own merits. There is clear-cut forcing of ideas, no greater example than the ``democratization`` experiment underway in Iraq.

Mujahid Margolis writes

mantolives #90 Thanks. I was just surprised at the large percentage. I also checked out the pakistani christian website, which is nice and colorful and full of things of interest to pakistani christians.

In India, no schools teach religion as a course. However, some schools may have extra-curricular activities such as Saraswati Pooja, since saraswati is a goddess of learning. All other religious festivals are not celebrated in schools.

Unfortunately, Indian epics and other ancient works are also given a wide birth, and that is a big shame. So, some kids (from more elite schools) may learn more about Greek Mythology in school, but not about any ancient Indian literature.

It is so amusing (and tragic at the same time) that the goraagoochaaters thoroughly relish their ability to contort their faces to preserve faarin accent and mismatched lifestyle. What tops it all is that these terrorists consider themselves not-ignorants and even yearn to teach & get paid to maintain their ``culture``.

A Vana is indeed waiting in the wings for these Paki goraagoochaaters. As Amanpour found out, those who would undo such scum would be from the same institutions where this art of goraagoochaating is drilled and instilled.

HaroonElahi is a great example: Fiercely & fearlessly muslim--a proud Pakistani.

Just as Jinnah hated the British and used the knowledge he acquired to belittle and ridicule them so will those who get the ``inside`` of the US and British thugs will use it to cleanse Pakistan & muslim world of neo-colonialism.

---

Culture clash sours American dream
Sunday 04 April 2004, 22:57 Makka Time, 19:57 GMT

Common practice in Asia may not be so in the United States


From a Mexican sued for sexual harassment over a friendly pat he gave a colleague to a Chinese arrested for selling live chickens, millions of US immigrants are not free to practise their native traditions.

``Touching or kissing a kid may be something natural in Latin America. Here in the States, it can be seen as sexual abuse,`` said Alison Renteln, author of The Cultural Defence.

Her book recounts hundred of stories of immigrants who violated US laws by practicing their own customs.

``For many immigrants, living in America is a cultural balancing act,`` the associate professor of political science at the University of Southern California told AFP.

``Touching or kissing a kid may be something natural in Latin America. Here in the States it can be seen as sexual abuse``

Alison Renteln,
author

``They struggle to preserve their native customs while conforming to laws of this country.``

``The owner of the Chinese live-animal food shop doesn`t get it. Why was she cited for selling live chickens when the Italian restaurant across the street boils dozens of live lobsters every day?``

Growing diversity

The Cultural Defence says Asians get into trouble most frequently, followed by Latinos. It just happens that Latinos and Asians are expected to triple their numbers here by 2050, while the numbers of Americans of European descent could be halved, according to the most recent US census.


In Yemen, qat is legal; in the US,it is a controlled substance

That is, Latinos are expected to increase from 35 million to 103 million. The 11 million Asians in the United States today will grow to 33 million.

Yet in a country that prides itself on the richness and diversity of its immigration, there is no legal framework for addressing the problem, Renteln said. She gives hundreds of examples in her book of the unexpected rigidity of US laws, especially when it comes to drugs.

``A man from Yemen is equally mystified. He was arrested for chewing qat leaves, which yield an effect comparable to drinking three espressos,`` Renteln said. ``Qat leaves, which are chewed like tobacco, are considered a controlled substance by the US Drug Enforcement Administration.``

She said a number of immigrants have been arrested for using the same leaves, which back home are culturally required for social gatherings and celebrations.

``In many instances, defendants coming from Kenya, Somalia and Yemen are astonished to find that the leaves are regarded as illegal drugs.``

Basic rights

Then, there is cockfighting, a pastime for many Latinos, but illegal in most US states, a felony in many.


Cockfighting is illegal in most US states and a felony in many

``The right to your culture is a basic human right,`` she said. ``Courts should be open to hear these kind of arguments.

``People may act in ways that seem totally out of line but make sense when you understand their customs and background.

``Although there is no official `cultural defence` in any legal system, courts often are left to decide whether a person`s culture can offer an explanation of behavior,`` said Renteln.

``Yet it is rare that a judge takes one`s customs and beliefs into account in criminal cases.``

re: malik99 # 80

I was not refering to ``you`` specifically in that post.

re: echoboom

I wish you all the luck in preserving your culture.

Culture is an evolving process and a culture cannot be frozen in time or in a mannerism. A culture is a process of fusion and it will never remain the same over a period of time. A culture, which is prevented from changing or evolving along side with new ideas becomes repressive and reactionary. Such a culture is marked by characteristics of intolerance, xenophobia and segregation of ideas. A culture is the embodiment of human experience and human experience cannot be caged and if it is; it will seek to break its chains and grow beyond its limitations.

A person trying to preserve their culture is a like a person attempting to forbid the waves of the ocean from washing onto the shore. It cannot be done and those who use force to attempt the impossible only end by destroying their societies.

Ciao

Re: teaching religion in school, nope, not in my school (yes yes convent and all, but sirf naam ka, the only thing missionary about it was the positions the fathers preferred)

we had religion mandatory for the catholics, bloody fanatics they were didn`t even allow the protestants in :)), abrahams and mathews used to come with us for something called moral science. might explain how we grew up all skoolar and voting for the congress...

...then of course ninth standard (grade to you phirangees) or so came Ramayana on TV, and then BJP in power, mandir wahee banayengay, and life was never the same again...

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Arjunm

Come to Pakistan... it will shatter the mythology that you have built about Pakistan. Sadly I doubt that you have the courage to do that. How else will you live, if the object of your hate turns out to be something quite different?


tahmed,

The Pakistan Christian Congress (http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com) actually projects 15 million plus christians alone in Pakistan. While I can`t comment on the veracity of this information ... I am aware that in Punjab alone there are over 5 million or so christians.... this is the view that the majority of the christian elders take. Near Lahore, there are towns like Yohannaabad have majority Christian populations... In Yohannaabad, the registered christian voters alone are 30000... in my area `Faisal Town` there are atleast 10 000 or so Christians ... most of them live in a village called `Yusufabad` which is now completely engulfed by Faisal Town... virtually indistinguishable from the rest. A number of villages that dot the canal into the south Lahore and onwards to Okara are Christian... Okara you might already know has a huge christian population... during my mother`s posting in Vehari, I came across a number of churches with congregations in that city... Multan is well known for its christian population. Sargodha, the other city I am associated with, is home to the head quarters of the Presbyterian Church USA of Pakistan... Peshawar and Quetta also have significant christian populations. The number of Christians in Karachi is higher than any other city and more apparent. According to the official estimates the Hindus in Pakistan are about 1.4 million or so. However it is a well known fact that Sukkur District of Sindh is majority Hindu... Similarly there is a very large population of Hindus in Karachi ... they belong to all walks of life.... If Ahmadis are also non-muslims as per the amendment... then ofcourse add another 5 to 6 million at the very least to this total. An estimated 3 million Ahmadi votes are there in the country... so the number might be even more.


In my opinion the total number of religious minorities is close to 15 or so million.... make them close to 10% of the total population.... no wonder the census figures were never really made public... that would have meant more reserved seats for minorities in the legislature... some 34 or so under the current counting. Imagine that? Figures used by international websites like CNN World fact book are taken from the Pakistan Government`s original figures... and are not based on actual research.

#76 by arjun_m on April 5, 2004 8:50am PT

``Actually India doesn`t have religion as a course in school``

You are a liar!!!! They are still teaching Hanuman in primary schools or that is your picture in the books???
Isn’t that monkey your god????

#59 by Urstruly on April 4, 2004 5:28pm PT

`` The imperialist thugs, who have had monopoly on violence for the past 400 years, are like those thieves who got caught with their pants halfway down on 9/11. For 400 years they have been stealing our natural resources, corrupting our people, and running our nations through puppets. And now when Muslim is awakening they try to remind us how peaceful our religion is? Islam is not a religion of peace; it is the religion of justice. Peace without justice is impossible. Islam doesn’t teach us to present the other cheek; it teaches us to stop the hand of aggressor who torments the weak and helpless. They may ban our religion; they may corrupt our religion; they may play one masquerade or the other, but they cannot steal the sense of justice and equity from human beings. Religion or no religion – justice is the destiny of human beings – and religion Islam is just one way to get to that destiny. ``


Similarly, it will also be the will of god oneday for uncle Sam to wakeup and deal with muslims the hardest way possible. For example, uncle Sam can threaten Osama Bin Laden and his other cave dwelling buddies that one more terror attack and Uncle Sam will begin parking a nuclear submarine outside of every frikking muslim country. One more terror attack and uncle Sam will order all it`s submarine fleet to take out whole frikking muslim world and reduce it in to ashes. After that it will all be a happy story in the world.

Actually, this makes me think that muslims are not all that macho at all. The brain dead jehadis might pose like that but really.... whoever they are fighting with in the world, they are the ones getting humiliated finally. In fact, if uncle Sam really uses his full power, looks like he can get away with beating the pulp out of Jehadis. In fact, Uncle sam can easily make the Jehadis wear fine hyderabadi bangles and create a freak show in Las vegas.