Jehad and The Curriculum
Beena Sarwar April 2, 2004
#97 Posted by tahmed32 on April 7, 2004 12:35:40 pm
mantolives #90 Thanks. I was just surprised at the large percentage. I also checked out the pakistani christian website, which is nice and colorful and full of things of interest to pakistani christians.
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#98 Posted by echoboom on April 7, 2004 12:35:40 pm
#99 Posted by vertex on April 7, 2004 12:35:40 pm
94,
How do cultures change? Does change come from below, or from above, or from outside? Who is responsible for the change?
The tide may come, but smart people build so the tide won`t destroy their homes. Cultural preservation is the mantra of all people, even the Americans. To suggest that any other culture has remained fixed in time is simply a lie.
Digestion of new ideas need not lead to radical cultural/value shifts. Problem occurs when we have outside forces, with insider minority who support these outsiders, demanding incorporation of new ideas be followed by shift in culture or values. This is when we have repression, and knee-jerk defense of culture...because it is under attack. Wartime mentality is always like that, weather by fundos in Pakistan or neo-cons in America.
This is not about free-flow of new ideas. If that were the case, then ideas would be left to stand on their own merits. There is clear-cut forcing of ideas, no greater example than the ``democratization`` experiment underway in Iraq.
#100 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on April 7, 2004 1:40:13 pm
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#101 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on April 7, 2004 5:13:52 pm
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#102 Posted by ferozk on April 8, 2004 7:49:06 am
re: echoboom # 95
The correct spelling for ``Vana`` is Wana.
Jinnah hated the British? Where did you learn this gem of misinformation? The local madrassa for the intellectually and mentally challenged? lol
Jinnah spoke in a British accent; had his clothes hand tailor made at Savaille Row; Jinnah gave up his Sindhi robes for British tailored suits and lived like a British lord; mimicked Joseph Camberlain as his role model and borrowed the idea of the monocule from him and borrowed the Asterkhan cap as an idea from Kemal Ataturk. Jinnah went into a self imposed exile in England when he wanted to leave Indian politics. All of Jinnah`s speeches were in English, spoken with a British accent. Jinnah married a Parsi girl.
There was nothing about Jinnah, his personality or mannerism, which was not British influenced and he politically disagreed with the British politics, but be never hated the English. Jinnah was so English in his manners that he never ever experienced the hospitality of His Britannanic Majesty in any Indian jail; he was more at ease in the dining halls of the Empire than he was in the villages of India. Jinnah the champion of Muslim rights, as you claim, drank wine with relish and each friday religiously avoided the mosque. lol
Everything you ridcule in others, was present in Jinnah! lol If you want to truly blame us for for being more foreign than native; blame Jinnah becaus he was, and remains, our orginal role model! :) lol
As to the neo-cons, they will cleansed by the Americans in the elections of 2004 and not by Muslims ``working from the inside for the greater glory of Islam``. :) The only Muslims working inside for the greater glory of Islam are inmates cleaning the cages in Gitmo under the supervision of the United States Marine Corps! lol
Ciao
The correct spelling for ``Vana`` is Wana.
Jinnah hated the British? Where did you learn this gem of misinformation? The local madrassa for the intellectually and mentally challenged? lol
Jinnah spoke in a British accent; had his clothes hand tailor made at Savaille Row; Jinnah gave up his Sindhi robes for British tailored suits and lived like a British lord; mimicked Joseph Camberlain as his role model and borrowed the idea of the monocule from him and borrowed the Asterkhan cap as an idea from Kemal Ataturk. Jinnah went into a self imposed exile in England when he wanted to leave Indian politics. All of Jinnah`s speeches were in English, spoken with a British accent. Jinnah married a Parsi girl.
There was nothing about Jinnah, his personality or mannerism, which was not British influenced and he politically disagreed with the British politics, but be never hated the English. Jinnah was so English in his manners that he never ever experienced the hospitality of His Britannanic Majesty in any Indian jail; he was more at ease in the dining halls of the Empire than he was in the villages of India. Jinnah the champion of Muslim rights, as you claim, drank wine with relish and each friday religiously avoided the mosque. lol
Everything you ridcule in others, was present in Jinnah! lol If you want to truly blame us for for being more foreign than native; blame Jinnah becaus he was, and remains, our orginal role model! :) lol
As to the neo-cons, they will cleansed by the Americans in the elections of 2004 and not by Muslims ``working from the inside for the greater glory of Islam``. :) The only Muslims working inside for the greater glory of Islam are inmates cleaning the cages in Gitmo under the supervision of the United States Marine Corps! lol
Ciao
#103 Posted by vertex on April 8, 2004 9:02:30 am
ferozk,
You don`t get it. I like echoboom`s Jinnah better than the two-faced Jinnah (who DID bandy about Islam and Islamic rhetoric, and KNEW that the disctinction between muslim state and Islamic state was not at all understood by the masses who supported him) you talk about. For a mythic national father figure, echboom`s Jinnah is the winner. You`re Jinnah deserves to be given the boot out of the nation.
Echoboom`s Jinnah fought for a cause, and a people. Your Jinnah was a paranoid anti-India twit with strange notions on why Pakistan had to be.
The real Jinnah does not matter. It`s the myth is what matters...
You don`t get it. I like echoboom`s Jinnah better than the two-faced Jinnah (who DID bandy about Islam and Islamic rhetoric, and KNEW that the disctinction between muslim state and Islamic state was not at all understood by the masses who supported him) you talk about. For a mythic national father figure, echboom`s Jinnah is the winner. You`re Jinnah deserves to be given the boot out of the nation.
Echoboom`s Jinnah fought for a cause, and a people. Your Jinnah was a paranoid anti-India twit with strange notions on why Pakistan had to be.
The real Jinnah does not matter. It`s the myth is what matters...
#104 Posted by echoboom on April 8, 2004 9:02:30 am
O jahil:
That was before independence. Did Jinnah not adopt sherwani and shalwaar post-47? Did he not give speech in Urdu, which incidentally was NOT his mother tongue. And at that age was it not commendible that he was at least trying? Ditto for Zulfikkar Ali Bhutto. If you don`t understand the hate they had for the pigs & the baboons then you surely never ever learned anything--but that exactly IS my point. You have a slave mind. You can only parrot what you read. You are incapable of rebelling. You want a safe job and lifestyle. You always be on the winners side or sit on the fence when times are tough. You work for the enemy.
You lurk in the grey areas, you jerk in twilight zones, you crawl between the lines.
The question you have been running away from: Answer this so that you can sleep easy. Face the truth so that you can visit CHOWK again with whatever dignity you can muster.
Again Name ONE , just one, person throughout Indian, Pakistani, or Muslim HISTORY produced by these cocka-mamie schools which promise to turn your child into a parrot and mynah. I claim that ALL of them were from Madressas or urdu-mediums
Creed of the Parrot-Mynah schools:
1) We teach more english ACCENT than english language
2) We teach american-culture so these Parrot-Mynahs appear imported
3) We fine them if they are discovered conversing in their mother tongues.
4) We take them on trips to McDs, Pizzahuts etc for cultural immersion
5) Islam, Muslim, Umma etc are taboos--only practised in urdu-medium types.
6) Chinese, Indian, and Muslims philosophers are not worth studying: Must know greek roman mythologies instead.
7) To get high --paying jobs we turn out actors and imitation artists. Inteviews by faarin-type corp. are in english. This way maulvi look-alikes cannot get in there--no matter how learned [ what the ignorants do not know that it is only the maulvi look-alikes [yes with shalvaars & puGrees!] who have made a name for themselves in ALL multi-nationals when outside Totaa-mynaah systems]
O jaahil:
I am very much interested in this thuggery being carried out in Paki-land. The purpose is to prevent the sipahi`s, the clerk`s`, the domestic`s , and the hari`s son & daughter to boss over your own son and daughter. I would very much like to see the sons & daughters of army & civilians sweeping the streets, replace bengali domestics, and thus work in Pakistan like they work outside Pakistan [suddenly burger flipping, at McDonald Halvaaee, becomes very glamorous!]. Instead of being called Ayaa and anaa-buaas they suddenly try to acquire status as daycare and baby sitters. Hajjaams & naaens become hairstylists and boutique-oppressors. What a laugh. How pathetic can you get O jaahil.
O jaahil! Do not quote Jinnah. He lived during slave-days. Are you implying that even after kicking out the british baboons you still are deluded to think that you are a foreigner? Do you have a single quality in you other than being a parrot, an ape or a bleached-crow?
That was before independence. Did Jinnah not adopt sherwani and shalwaar post-47? Did he not give speech in Urdu, which incidentally was NOT his mother tongue. And at that age was it not commendible that he was at least trying? Ditto for Zulfikkar Ali Bhutto. If you don`t understand the hate they had for the pigs & the baboons then you surely never ever learned anything--but that exactly IS my point. You have a slave mind. You can only parrot what you read. You are incapable of rebelling. You want a safe job and lifestyle. You always be on the winners side or sit on the fence when times are tough. You work for the enemy.
You lurk in the grey areas, you jerk in twilight zones, you crawl between the lines.
The question you have been running away from: Answer this so that you can sleep easy. Face the truth so that you can visit CHOWK again with whatever dignity you can muster.
Again Name ONE , just one, person throughout Indian, Pakistani, or Muslim HISTORY produced by these cocka-mamie schools which promise to turn your child into a parrot and mynah. I claim that ALL of them were from Madressas or urdu-mediums
Creed of the Parrot-Mynah schools:
1) We teach more english ACCENT than english language
2) We teach american-culture so these Parrot-Mynahs appear imported
3) We fine them if they are discovered conversing in their mother tongues.
4) We take them on trips to McDs, Pizzahuts etc for cultural immersion
5) Islam, Muslim, Umma etc are taboos--only practised in urdu-medium types.
6) Chinese, Indian, and Muslims philosophers are not worth studying: Must know greek roman mythologies instead.
7) To get high --paying jobs we turn out actors and imitation artists. Inteviews by faarin-type corp. are in english. This way maulvi look-alikes cannot get in there--no matter how learned [ what the ignorants do not know that it is only the maulvi look-alikes [yes with shalvaars & puGrees!] who have made a name for themselves in ALL multi-nationals when outside Totaa-mynaah systems]
O jaahil:
I am very much interested in this thuggery being carried out in Paki-land. The purpose is to prevent the sipahi`s, the clerk`s`, the domestic`s , and the hari`s son & daughter to boss over your own son and daughter. I would very much like to see the sons & daughters of army & civilians sweeping the streets, replace bengali domestics, and thus work in Pakistan like they work outside Pakistan [suddenly burger flipping, at McDonald Halvaaee, becomes very glamorous!]. Instead of being called Ayaa and anaa-buaas they suddenly try to acquire status as daycare and baby sitters. Hajjaams & naaens become hairstylists and boutique-oppressors. What a laugh. How pathetic can you get O jaahil.
O jaahil! Do not quote Jinnah. He lived during slave-days. Are you implying that even after kicking out the british baboons you still are deluded to think that you are a foreigner? Do you have a single quality in you other than being a parrot, an ape or a bleached-crow?
#105 Posted by mumbaikar on April 8, 2004 9:02:46 am
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#106 Posted by ballukhan on April 8, 2004 9:03:07 am
reg #94 by ferozk on April 7, 2004 7:35am PT
Sheer pleasure! Great words of wisdom. Feroz Saheb I would love to have a detailed exposition on these thoughts from you.
``...Culture is an evolving process and a culture cannot be frozen in time or in a mannerism. A culture is a process of fusion and it will never remain the same over a period of time. A culture, which is prevented from changing or evolving along side with new ideas becomes repressive and reactionary. Such a culture is marked by characteristics of intolerance, xenophobia and segregation of ideas. A culture is the embodiment of human experience and human experience cannot be caged and if it is; it will seek to break its chains and grow beyond its limitations.
A person trying to preserve their culture is a like a person attempting to forbid the waves of the ocean from washing onto the shore. It cannot be done and those who use force to attempt the impossible only end by destroying their societies. ``
Awesome! Lovely!!
Sheer pleasure! Great words of wisdom. Feroz Saheb I would love to have a detailed exposition on these thoughts from you.
``...Culture is an evolving process and a culture cannot be frozen in time or in a mannerism. A culture is a process of fusion and it will never remain the same over a period of time. A culture, which is prevented from changing or evolving along side with new ideas becomes repressive and reactionary. Such a culture is marked by characteristics of intolerance, xenophobia and segregation of ideas. A culture is the embodiment of human experience and human experience cannot be caged and if it is; it will seek to break its chains and grow beyond its limitations.
A person trying to preserve their culture is a like a person attempting to forbid the waves of the ocean from washing onto the shore. It cannot be done and those who use force to attempt the impossible only end by destroying their societies. ``
Awesome! Lovely!!
#107 Posted by echoboom on April 8, 2004 9:03:08 am
jang:99
Thank you for your post.
In India it is no different, but perhaps not to the same extent. Vajpaee looks, walks, and talks like a Hindustanee but look at our buffoon. Musharraf, the perfoming monkey on his masters leach , horror of horrors, takes pride in his uniform. Since when has a uniformed guy has been considered intelligent, respectable, and fit to be invited to a civilised gathering?--ah! but only in Pakiland. These retd. bufoons, listen to this, take pride in telling Pakistanis that they have been looting and robbing the country, by not hiding the fact that they once wore uniform.
Pathetic indeed!
Then there is a species a little less respectable than a dog who was not allowed into the masters clubs ( Dogs & Indians not allowed). What the masters did not know that these lesser-than-dogs always nursed a desire to drink pissfroth and to fornicate so that they could be mistaken by muslims to be baboon-like.
Such buDDhaa grand-uncles visit chowk as well and trying to copy-cat westerners, dislike when addressed with the traditional salutations. How low can they get. Amazing!
Thank you for your post.
In India it is no different, but perhaps not to the same extent. Vajpaee looks, walks, and talks like a Hindustanee but look at our buffoon. Musharraf, the perfoming monkey on his masters leach , horror of horrors, takes pride in his uniform. Since when has a uniformed guy has been considered intelligent, respectable, and fit to be invited to a civilised gathering?--ah! but only in Pakiland. These retd. bufoons, listen to this, take pride in telling Pakistanis that they have been looting and robbing the country, by not hiding the fact that they once wore uniform.
Pathetic indeed!
Then there is a species a little less respectable than a dog who was not allowed into the masters clubs ( Dogs & Indians not allowed). What the masters did not know that these lesser-than-dogs always nursed a desire to drink pissfroth and to fornicate so that they could be mistaken by muslims to be baboon-like.
Such buDDhaa grand-uncles visit chowk as well and trying to copy-cat westerners, dislike when addressed with the traditional salutations. How low can they get. Amazing!
#108 Posted by rsridhar on April 8, 2004 9:03:08 am
re:#85 by harimau
Talking about teacher-student jokes, a similar one comes to mind (not related to this topic though but i found it impossible to resist).
Teacher: What is that organ in the human body, which when stimulated in the dark, grows to 10 times its normal size?
Amidst giggles and smiles from the girl section of the class room, one boy finally gives the correct answer: pupil (of the eye)
``Correct``, replies the teacher and turning to the girls in the class, remarks `` you people not only have a wicked mind but you will all most certainly be disappointed on your wedding nights``!
Sridhar
Talking about teacher-student jokes, a similar one comes to mind (not related to this topic though but i found it impossible to resist).
Teacher: What is that organ in the human body, which when stimulated in the dark, grows to 10 times its normal size?
Amidst giggles and smiles from the girl section of the class room, one boy finally gives the correct answer: pupil (of the eye)
``Correct``, replies the teacher and turning to the girls in the class, remarks `` you people not only have a wicked mind but you will all most certainly be disappointed on your wedding nights``!
Sridhar
#109 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on April 8, 2004 9:03:08 am
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#110 Posted by echoboom on April 8, 2004 9:03:24 am
The coalition of the willing.
Paanch choohay ghar sey niklay, krnay chalay shikaar
Eik chooha peechhay reh gayaa, baaqui reh gaey chaar
Chaaron choohay khush ho ho kar lagay bjanay been
aik choohay ko aa-gaee khaansi, baaqui reh gaey teeen
teeenon choohay d`r kr bolay ghar ko bhaag chalo
eik choohay nay baat naa maanee, baqui reh gaey dO
Do choohay jo baaqui reh gaey doNon hee thhay naik
Eik choohay ko billi khaa gaee, baaqui reh gaya eik
eik chooha jo baaqui reh gaya uss nay kr lee shaadi
beevee uss ko mili larraka. Khoob huee brbaadi.
If you are not an illiterate, you`ll be able to read this:
Paanch choohay ghar sey niklay, krnay chalay shikaar
Eik chooha peechhay reh gayaa, baaqui reh gaey chaar
Chaaron choohay khush ho ho kar lagay bjanay been
aik choohay ko aa-gaee khaansi, baaqui reh gaey teeen
teeenon choohay d`r kr bolay ghar ko bhaag chalo
eik choohay nay baat naa maanee, baqui reh gaey dO
Do choohay jo baaqui reh gaey doNon hee thhay naik
Eik choohay ko billi khaa gaee, baaqui reh gaya eik
eik chooha jo baaqui reh gaya uss nay kr lee shaadi
beevee uss ko mili larraka. Khoob huee brbaadi.
If you are not an illiterate, you`ll be able to read this:
#111 Posted by MantoLives on April 8, 2004 10:16:08 am
Vertex...
A very clever statement ..
However... even that mythical Jinnah, single mindedly devoted to the cause of Pakistan, bent on the creation of separate state, believer in the Muslim state, etc etc, never advocated an Islamic theocracy. Even that Mythical Jinnah ofcourse believed that his muslim nation would be the most magnanimous of the world...
Nonetheless ... Ferozk`s Jinnah was the real Jinnah ...he was a remarkable politician , and a man of calculation... but things could and did go wrong for him... while the mythical conquering Saladin like Jinnah might be more impressive for some people, to the saner and more reasonable people, the real Jinnah is more appealing... for he is human, frail, yet remarkable for his will power and strength of character.
#112 Posted by mohar11 on April 8, 2004 10:16:08 am
//but let it not conceal the fact that Pakistanis harbour serious misperceptions about India, bordering on Indophobia......Lest their current silence be misunderstood for a change of heart, it must be said that our Indophobes have only made a tactical retreat....//
I told you so.
I told you so.
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