Jehad and The Curriculum

malik #13 Perhaps it is time to sharpen that (intellectual, hopefully) sword you promised to cut me with next time you got your chance. So, en garde, my young friend, and read my response to your question:

``Is religious fundamentalism the ONLY problem emanating from Pakistani curriculum? ``

The answer is no. Fine.

But your question is stupid. It is stupid because in asking that question you imply that just because the rest of the curriculum could be strengthened we should do nothing to take such abominations as the insertion of half-baked mullah ideology (which incidentally violates not only common sense but the fundamental message of the Quran as well) into biology and physics textbooks?

You question is also immoral. How dare you, having benefitted from a proper education in the US, deny the same thing to those less fortunate than you in Pakistan?

I am now ready for your response. I would advise you to stay focussed on what I have written and not try to play games and parry around. Since if you do, I shall cut through your arguments like a knife goes through butter. intellectually speaking, as always.

kaurasach #2 you write ``This article reaffirms what sane people already know, and what most muslims either support or refuse to confront. ``

You are right for once, I will say. The only solution to the jehadis is to give them a taste of the jehad they seek - blasting them to hell with daisy cutters as the US military did in afghanistan, or flushing them out from the tribal areas as the Pakistan military is now (finally!) getting around to doing. Note that in Wana these scoundrels did not ``die fighting`` or anything glorious like their big talk - they quietly surrendered to save their skins.

As for urstruly quoting from the Quran, I think it is monstrous that he should drag the Quran into his own mischievous way of thinking. The Quranic message is one of peace - the jehadis message is that of the devil.

you cannot put lipstick on a pig and pass it off as a horse .............

............ people like malik99 and urstruly show why it wouldn`t make any difference if you edited the text books.......... the cancer has spread to every part of the body and radical surgery is required ...........there is no point in removing the word jihad from the text books if the children continue to be fed the nonsense about badr, khandaq and the conquest of mecca ...........as long as they continue to draw inspiraiton from the warrior prophet and continue to believe in the unedited version of the book, they will continue to grow up to be potential jihadis hell-bent on getting to heaven and their seventy virgins .............there is no hope ............. in every age there were barbarians that threatened civilization..........so be it - eventually they were defeated and mankind moved on ..............

Its Muslims who need to be reformed...not Islam.

And on the subject of distorted history lessons in our curriculum...yes there is an urgent need to get rid of narrow minded and shallow ideas that are being spoonfed to our school goers...
Although we cram up most of what is written in the books without giving a thought but these things stay stuck in our sub-conscious...and distort our ability to think clearly...and to accept mistakes that we have made...we only learn to glorify ourselves...or to belittle others...
thats what is being taught in our school books.

They shud also remove this from basic text books of religious school in Pakistan

ali say allah
bay say bandook (gun)
tai say tank
jeem say jehad
kaaf say kalishankov

etc etc

I have seen it with my own eyes

Plus there were stories of valour of people fighting in Afganistan ........ there was a picture of small guy (pashtoon) standing on destroyed tank with USSR sign and yelling allah o akabar ........... come on ......... these things are way more visible ........... stop them first

Yoda, Star Wars Trilogy

``You must unlearn what you have learned.`` ``Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will...``

``Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight.``

Yoda, Star Wars Trilogy

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try....

``Ohhh! Great warrior! [laughs and shakes his head]
Wars not make one great!``

``Always in motion is the future.``

Yoda, Star Wars Trilogy

``Size matters not! Judge me by my size, do you?``

And well you should not. For my ally in the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It`s energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we...( pinches Luke`s shoulder)...not this crude matter. (a sweeping gesture) You must feel the Force around you. (gesturing) Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that ship!

Concentrate...feel the Force flow. Yes. Good. Calm, yes. Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future...the past. Old friends long gone.

Yoda, Star Wars Trilogy

``You will know (the good from the bad) when you are calm, at peace. Passive.`` A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

``A Jedi`s strength flows from the Force.``

``Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight.``

tahmed 32 # 16 - I am all for improving our curriculum. ALL of it. On terms and conditions which suit OUR culture, OUR beliefs, and OUR heritage. NOT on west`s pleasure.

Why has removing certain verses from text become the biggest priority in a country where 75% of the population NEVER goes to school? Why is the West (and its slaves) not asking us to address THAT problem and set up more schools on the HIGHEST priority bases? Why isn`t this dangerously low literacy rate in 21st centrury a FAR bigger problem than a few verses? Why is the West (and its slaves) not asking us to revamp the aparthied divide of Urdu/English medium schools which produces generations void of purpose and goals? Why is the west not asking us to set up more research labs so that our children not only learn by rote but also see the practical implication of knwoledge?

Admit the fact that in 2004 your sudden awakening to the need to revamp religious part of texts stinks of slavery. You have woken up to fulfill west`s timeline.

As always, your second question arises out of ignorance. I DID study in Pakistan until 12th grade.

Malik99 #26,

Obviously, the west has no interest except its own.

It is upto Pakistanis to revamp their curriculum. It shouldn`t be at the behest of the west that Jihad should be removed the biology texts (biology and Jihad, oh my God!!!).

It was Pakistan`s mistake that it allowed itself to be manipulated so by the US. There is no point in blaming the west when one doesn`t recognize his own good.

#23 by hamidm2 on April 3, 2004 7:05am PT
you cannot put lipstick on a pig and pass it off as a horse .............

---

Hah haa haa:
That is exactly what muslims are trying to drill into your pig-head. You ignorant pimp. You are that pig who is trying desperately to look different with the goraa-hipstick.

Such is the existence of goraa-goo-chaaters. Now go and drink pissfroth, watch baseball in you trailer trash, and look evolved, lest they find out.

malik #26 You make a number of points, so let me tackle them one at at time.

1. I am glad that we both agree that removing mullah ideology from textbooks will improve their quality. That narrows down our difference to one of means, not one of goals. Your view (i.e. one of opposition to eliminating mullah ideology from our textbooks) is because this move is due to western pressure. My view (i.e. one of support) is based on the fact that these children will get a better education as a result, will be better able to get make a life for themselves in future. In other words, your view is based on a focus on appearances of Pakistan vis a vis the west, while my view is based on a focus on the realities that the next generation of Pakistanis will have to face. I hope you will agree, seen in light of the realities the next generation of pakistanis will face, we should all out oppose this messing with their education by mullahs.

2. You correctly note the vast illiteracy in Pakistan. The solution to that is to invest more in education. Not to mess up the education of those who DO go to school.

3. The primary responsibility for their education is with Pakistanis, not the west as you incorrectly imply. What does this looking towards the west for help say about your own attitude when it comes to the question of having a slavish rather than an independent mind?

4. You betray ignorance of what is being done by the `slaves` (as you incorrectly call those who agree with the west) in Pakistan. There are many Pakistani organizations as I have discussed before on chowk, that are engaged in providing proper education. These include organizations like DIL and SOS and Agha Khan foundation and MBTMT and others - I could give you their web links if you wish to put your money where your mouth is and contribute to this cause. You can also visit these NGO run schools and orphanages in Pakistan and satisfy yourself (as I did) that your money is being properly used. And indeed, there are westerners engaged in such education as well - one of them was even reported on in a cover story of the Parade magazine. He put his whole life into where your mouth is, left his wife and children in the US to start girls schools in the northern areas.

And there are other ways in which you can help. My nephew, who was born and raised in Germany, did that when he convinced the authorities that as an alternative to German military service he would work for ILO in Pakistan, and spent an entire hot summer going from one factory to another, from one town in rural panjab to another, convincing factory workers to participate in a program to pay for part-time education of their child workers. And rest assured that my nephew, who is a tall, strapping young chap with flair for basketball and other sports, and a great sense of humor, is a slave to no man. But neither does he allow his views to be shaped around this anti-west ideology that pervades too many muslim intellectuals.

5. Thanks for correcting my assumption that you were born and raised in the US. I may sometimes make the wrong assumption, but dont mind being corrected. My basic point remains unchanged - you chose to benefit from western college education, and you are now benefitting in the job market as a result. Our children in Pakistan will have to compete in a global labor market - and the only way they will get jobs is if the education system of Pakistan is known to be sound.

6. As for my awakening in 2004 to the west`s timeline on education as you say - you are wrong. I have been contributing to the SOS for example since before you were born (if you were born after 1980). There are many other Pakistanis, much more dedicated than I am, who have been doing this for years. You are merely being presumptuous here.

I saw the programme that the article refers to... it was a pathetic performance by the Minister, Qasmi and Dushka Syed... Zubaida Jalal`s comment `I am a fundamentalist` was just stupid.... as it was not relevant to the debate.Dushka Syed was playing to the gallery ... her profession of jehad, and her declaration `I am proud to be the descendant of Mohd. Ghori` really made her lose the arguments. A H Nayyer came out convincingly on top and he is a true patriot no doubt. Thank God for his report...


Najma Babar`s article, Khalil Jabran`s works, and Dina Wadia`s article about her father should be included in the textbooks... the message that they propound is much more important to Pakistan than the imagined ideology of the state that it guardians keep spouting.

#26 by malik99
//...Admit the fact that in 2004 your sudden awakening to the need to revamp religious part of texts stinks of slavery. You have woken up to fulfill west`s timeline...//

You are right. But why are you complaining now? This is how it has always been in pakistan. Paki Army and their progenies have been carrying out their master`s orders since the beginning. Master needed jihadis to fight communists .... Lo and Behold ... Pakis opened up a whole assembly line to churn out the Zombies....fitted with a whole range of software(islamic ideology) and hardware. Did you complain then ... of course not?

Then master changed his mind - called off the game.... jihad is out of fashion ....Jihadis would have to go. Pakis have jumped to the order ... trying hard to meet the master`s demand .... textbooks are dirty, must be washed clean ... madrassas are bad - must be reformed ... a whole range of ideologies developed for the earlier war are going to get a make over. Not because pakis themselves are convinced this is a good thing - but since the master says so.

If tomorrow - for some reason US comes around and wants jihadis once again - you bet your a## - the assembly line would be rebuilt immediately.

Whenever Master says Jump - Pakis say how high. That`s the way it has always been. Why complain now?

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts