The Secularity of India

Harimau

I acknowledge having seen/read your post.

tahmed32

Quote:

`` I am not suprised by your great desire to have India compared with the US and UK - I am quite familiar by now with the delusions of Indians. Anyway, enjoy your delusions. ``

Guess there is some misunderstanding or misreading here. Neither there is any desire or any want on my part to compare UK, US with India in this context. I merely pointed out that when it comes to apples and oranges, the thing that is common between them is, both are fruit. Comparing apples and oranges will not serve any purpose as there hardly is any comparison. Only thing I have done is pointed out/reminded of the fundamental difference in that particular context. And that does not constitute any desire or want on my part. One may like/accept this or not (no comparison between India and Pakistan in the given context)but that is the reality.

As to the delusions part, well, whatever pleases you, Sir!

Ref Mullah32 #358

[harimau: Still the same fu!cked up little man, I see.]

Can`t handle the truth, can you?

[Go kiss Modi`s butt.]

Just because you all kiss Jinnah`s butt doesn`t mean I have to kiss Modi`s.

harimau: Still the same fu!cked up little man, I see. Go kiss Modi`s butt.

rajasingh: Thanks for your views. I have no wish to beat this dead horse again. I am not suprised by your great desire to have India compared with the US and UK - I am quite familiar by now with the delusions of Indians. Anyway, enjoy your delusions.

Ref rajsinghi1 #356

If one looks at the situation carefully, one could see that the only sentiment that moves people in South Asia is ``Islam is in danger.``

That statement is used in Pakistan and Bangladesh to start riots in which minorities are killed, their women are raped and their property is stolen.

In India, the same meaning can be found in a slightly different slogan: ``Secularism is in danger.``

There is no danger to secularism if 60 Hindus are burnt to death in Godhra.

There is no danger to to secularism if 3000 Sikhs are lynched in New Delhi.

There is no danger to secularism if Christian missionaries are killed or converts to Christianity are attacked.

But touch a single hair of a single Muslim and we have the secularists crying ``Secularism is in danger.``

What they really mean is ``Islam is in danger.``

Think about that! Is there any other place on earth where people could be so brainwashed as to behave like robots?

Plats8, get an ice pack for your head as you read this.

Tahmed32

Post#348

Quote:

`` religion is far more mixed up in politics in pakistan than in india. ``

Pakistan itself was created in the name of religion.

Merely a reminder.

India, by choice, chose Secularism. So if there is a comparison between say, UK or US and India in this context, one can understand. But, when the foundations of a country had been laid in name of religion then comparisons like these could be on the surface and not substance, it would seem.

wonder what the paki-bashers will say about this:

BJP stands by Modi

NEW DELHI, June 20: India`s opposition Hindu nationalists on Sunday shot down renewed calls to dismiss Gujarat`s hardline leader, who is accused of abetting anti-Muslim violence in the western state.

``There is no proposal to change the leadership of Gujarat at this juncture,`` Venkaiah Naidu, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), told reporters after a meeting of top party leaders in New Delhi.

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had come under fresh scrutiny after police said they gunned down four Muslims, including a 19-year-old woman, last Tuesday because they allegedly plotted to assassinate the state leader.

India`s ruling Congress party has suggested that the shootout was a set-up to build sympathy for Modi and demanded an impartial probe. Former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, breaking with his party`s longstanding backing of Modi, said last week that a BJP national meeting set to start on Tuesday in Mumbai would consider replacing the Gujarat leader.

Vajpayee also said for the first time that anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat, which left 2,000 people dead in 2002, contributed to the BJP`s upset election defeat in April-May elections.

But Vajpayee`s remarks led hardliners to rally around Modi, who had been facing calls for his resignation even from some BJP lawmakers in Gujarat. Vajpayee took part in Sunday`s BJP meeting, which was seen as an attempt to clear up intra-party disputes instead of airing them publicly at the Mumbai convention. -AFP

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=32648&headline=In~the~name~of~love,~Pranesh~Pillai~became~Javed~Shaikh

In name of love, Pranesh became Javed Shaikh

Express News Service
Posted online: Thursday , June 17, 2004 at 0406 hours IST

Pune, June 17: Pranesh Kumar Gopinath Pillai came to Pune from Kochi with his parents when he was a child. Like other kids of his age, he grew up in this peaceful city. While in his early 20s, he fell in love and realised soon enough that if he was to marry his lady love, he had to convert.



And so Pranesh Pillai became Javed Gulam Mohammed Shaikh.

On Tuesday, the 30-year-old was among the four Lashkar-e-Toiba militants who were killed in a shootout with Gujarat police who claimed the gang was planning to assassinate chief minister Narendra Modi.

During the last 24 hours, the Pune police have been working overtime to find out more about Javed and his family. And how he came to be associated with the Lashkar.

Scriptures and books say many things. Life only becomes nightmarish for muslims and others if they start referring to their book for every issue under the sun. Nothing but for the natural laws are universal. What is written in the scriptures might be true in a window of time and space, not forever. Don`t the muslims know this ? Or is it their stubbornness that is clouding their thinking ? Dispassionately saying, whatever was native and common to the people in south asia is now being pushed and limited to the present-day boundaries of India. All this in the name of religion.

Harimau #351,

Don`t wish to continue this any further, but what delusions are your specialty ?
Delusions of humility, perhaps.

Ref plats8 #247

Thank God that you have delusions of adequacy only. It could have been far worse: you could have had delusions of grandeur.

sparchus: ``Musims with hindus.India has been ravaged by their rampant population explosion, backwardness and a rigidity to change.`` -- yes of course sparchus -- they were quite `rigid` when it came to telling their hindu attackers to let them (the muslims that is) live -- i believe that is a flaw that they had, the muslims of gujarat that is, in the year of our lord 2002 -- in the time of modi the malevolent .... :)

harish #343 slowly, slowly, (to translate directly from urdu) we pakistanis will surely dance along the yellow brick road to find the holy grail of democracy at the end of the rainbow (to completely screw up metaphors)

:-)

dost mittar #345 Your facts are of course quite accurate - religion is far more mixed up in politics in pakistan than in india.

However, it is also a fact that most of this mixing has been done not based on popular demand: ahmedis were in fact doing very well in pakistan until bhutto, in an attempt to please the jamaatiyas, callously had them declared nonmuslims. zia was responsible for the remaining mixing of politics and religion. and I will agree that many in the middle class (like the writer of this stupid article) are responsible for allowing this mixing to continue.

Having said all this, the fact remains that the driving force behind islamazation, or ``maudoodiization`` to be more accurate, has been the religious parties and not the general public. Bhutto merely greased the sqeuaky wheel (i.e. the mullah parties that made noise vastly out of proportion to their showing in elections).

This distinction becomes important when one seeks a solution for religious extremism in pakistan: if one trusts the people of pakistan, then mullahs dont stand a chance.

niki #346 trust me, the general public in pakistan knows what it wants. in fact, it doesnt even want the cake you referred to. the only time the general public of pakistan got really energized (and i am old enough to remember all this) is when bhutto waved the roti, kapra aur makaan slogan before them. poor abdul in pakistan is no different from poor nathu ram india: both these boys are more concerned about their next meal, and if that is given, then about education for their kids. it is only the hindutva ideologues in india and the militarist ideologues in pakistan who have managed to spread lies in an effort to prolong this stupid india-pakistan confrontation. 15,000 indian cricket fans hardly recognized the pakistanis they ran into a couple of months back as you may recall.

as for the middle class, trust me that pakistan has roughly the same middle class (taking into account population differences) as in india. the best pakistani public schools match anything you will find in the US, if you go by SAT scores e.g. (I know fellows scoring in the 1500s after an all pakistan education). while we surely have enormous problems, i think people in india tend to routinely underestimate pakistanis (as poor Advani learnt to his horror in 1998, but dont let me get into this since a lot of your countrymen are sensitive on this point and get annoyed when i bring this up :-)

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