Train to Pakistan 2004: The Tribute

Nazar Hayat Khan said
``The problem is with the entrenched establishments (Security, ISI, Raw, Intelligence) on BOTH sides. It will take some time before they get mellowed down to accept each other without mistrust. They are the ones who create this aura of discomfort.``

NHK, you fall into the same old game of playing ``equivalency``.
There is a difference between - India and Pak - The Security, RAW are not in
control of Indian Govt affairs.

Most pakistanis play the equivalencey game - they try to equate MMA with BJP,
PPP with Congress etc. All this is nothing but Pakistani delusion. All the
parties in Pakistan are ``Islamic`` .

The institutionalized bigotry that exists in Pakistan is because, the Pakistani public
wants it and sees it as a way to become the ideal ``Islamic state and be rid of all
problems.

So dont equate India and Pakistan.

The thought of 3000 Sikhs running around in Rawalpindi is very intensely moving, for some reason.
i agree :)

hey veeresh, i left a msg for u on unplugged, asking if you would by any chance be dropping in to lahore, but i guess u didn`t read it, nor did u make it to lahore. In any case, this is a very interesting read, please do write the rest soon!

Hi Veeresh,
Good one. a perfect blend of reality and feelings

Veeresh, enjoyed the account so far. Looking forward to the rest.

Veeresh

Mine # 14

(since some of the fundamental issues of the state have not yet been fully settled)

Yours # 17

(everything always comes back to Kashmir . .)

I did not mean Kashmir. Kashmir is no more a burning topic in Pakistan since some years. You may have noticed this in your interactions here. The unsettled issues in the society that get hotly debated are the issues like the role of army, role of politicians, role of religion, democracy, progress. And this debate is all tied up in many unresovable knots - TNT, Constitution, provincial autonomy etc.

And there is a near 100% consensus of all parties on normalization of relations with India. Actually, by normalization, Pakistan would be killing many birds with one stone. The society fully understands it through its instincts and is all for the CBMs, which need to be extended to many other areas of civil society.

But the wooden statues of the establishment are neither clear-headed nor open-minded nor flexible to grasp this and this oppurtunity. And they continue to press on within their own fixated perceptions unmidful of the general mood of the masses. The elected Assembly and the elected Prime minister are as good as nothing.

# 11

please give us a break Romair

I have been an avid reader of articles and interacts on chowk, though I rarely post.

But you are again trying to spoil interacts on an excellent article into a pow-pow, jhow-jhow. Please desist, it is my earnest request

Veeresh:

Your account is touching without being overly emotional...``My son is fast asleep on the upper berth, the innocence of youth heading for the joys of adulthood, for him and me, it is about bonding on a trip back to the land we have only heard about, a foreign land of my fore-fathers? I pat my Indian passport reassuringly, wrapped in polythene and secured``...this says it all. Of course, I look forward to the rest with a few observations of Raghu, that would be interesting.

PS: and I missed meeting you in Delhi...was there around then...

---

Romair:

[I think Indians came with such apprehension, with a fearful picture of Pakistanis, that even if someone said, ``Hi`` to them or smiled at them, they would have been overwhelmed. Imagine a person coming in, fearing for his life, getting a free tea in a teashop. I guess he would be overwhelmed..... ]

So true. But this is what stereotypes are made of.

[Both of us are looking forward to meeting normal friendly people (with no horns on their heads). We will not be ``overwhelmed,`` if an Indian smiles at us. We will be expecting it.]

Indians will not only smile, we shake our heads in all directions, sometimes rotate them 360 degrees -- either because WE are overwhelmed or because we like to know what is behind us and before us at the same time. If you visit the N.East some people wear head gear with horns, and they are very friendly. And as the cow is almost human in our country...you gets horns again.

But seriously, do let us know when you visit. Veeresh is more likely to be a help since he lives in Delhi, and no one bothers to come to my Mumbai :( But if you do (Jinnah`s house!), get in touch at farzanavee@yahoo.com.

Veeresh: exhilarating read. More please!

I would have placed a ``real-time`` travelogue while on the move, but:-

a) Did not carry a camera and laptop for a variety of reasons, mainly it would reduce the observational note taking abilities, and also mark me as Joe-Tourist in the unreserved railway compartments/buses I was looking at travelling on.

b) In the 125 hours or so Delhi-to-Delhi, I slept for a total of 15 hours, the rest was spent in looking and talking and EATING. I used to be slim and trim . . .

Even taking a spiral-bound book out and writing in it got me more than a few queries . . . on both sides.

Yes, NHK Sirji, you are correct. the Government machinery on both sides, but more so in Pakistan, has the most to lose if things change (improve) in Pakistan. The answer lies in a lot of things, and exposure to the Indian middle class may just be the aspirational catalyst required for Pakistanis in Pakistan, I think. But this exposure to middle-class Indians needs to be put into extreme fast forward, and not just by route of movies/videos either.

But then everything always comes back to Kashmir . . . and don`t Pakistanis realise that increasingly Kashmir is the millstone/albatross around their necks, not so much India`s neck, anymore?

Now, this is a real time, pleasant surprise by VEERESH. I read about his being in ISLAMABAD on unplugged but was not exptecting a `traveloque` so soon. thought that since he is also from MITTAR`s land and will make us wait the same as mittar saab did. :)

now, its way to cool to hear from both. I am anxiously waiting for the next episodes.. make them real looooooooooooong ones.

#11
``Interestingly, I will be going to India this year, hopefully``

I dont know about others here, but this is one travelogue I keenly await, ROmair never fails to deliver! :-)

veeresh

I agree. It is a long way to go. The problem is not with the ordinary people.

The problem is with the entrenched establishments (Security, ISI, Raw, Intelligence) on BOTH sides. It will take some time before they get mellowed down to accept each other without mistrust. They are the ones who create this aura of discomfort.

Customs, immigration, police have same psyche on both sides - but this more towards the normal inefficiency and human failings.

As you said, the answer lies on more traffic on both sides - and frankly, more time. The Government machineries established in the last 30-40 years, geared to work against each other, need time to unwind.

Here I must give credit to the common folks, who despite the years of brain washing, have been the first to come out of that delibrately conditioned mind set. However, since some of the fundamental issues of the state have not yet been fully settled, a certain small segment of the society will display muddled perceptions and use the hackneyed phrases.

A great beginning Veeresh.

Did you try the kebabs?

Our kebabs are better then......


Hope to hear more about your trip.


Ras

Thank you all around for the condolences, as I mentioned, my father led a full life and we celebrate his evolution. There are aspects of what he did for people that I can not touch on this website, but suffice it to say that he always sought for and lived his truths.

I am going to try my best to keep the articles on pure observations. I shall also try to write as I speak, which is rapidly.

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Romair 11 . . . first of all, please send me an email at veeresh@chowk.com towards any back-up or logistical support required in India before/during your trip . . .

The ``warnings`` about going to Pakistan come from well meaning people, not just in India, who also read travel advisories as well as have probably reduced their risk taking capabilities. It is not as though they or we are scared as ``Indians``. It is just that Pakistan is perceived to be a dangerous place for everybody, period, including local Pakistanis.

Frankly, I have not seen so many guns displayed so openly, as in Pindi/Islamabad. So, there has to be a reason for the guns and subsequent worry, right? Moreover, I know ex-pat Pakistanis who think it is dangerous to go back to Pakistan, too, and I am not saying that to score points, please. (Not my style, you will accept?)

From what I understand from some of the diplomats and page-3 people I met at the Islamabad Club, the situation as regards safety of families in Islamabad and environs has improved over the past 12-18 months. Again, these were not Indians.

What do Indians think of Pakistanis? For that, sorry, you will have to watch PTV. In large doses. And see Pakistani plays. I think most of us think that you are very serious, sombre and formal people, given to large doses of pre and post function speeches. With Kashmir, religion and military on your minds to the exclusion of everything else. Now THAT can be dangerous for anybody, right?

Please also accept that we have had a few stereotype Pakistanis in India so far:-

a) The very very poor, who travel by train, the same train I took. More on that in my articles.

b) The very rich, very connected, very military and very educated creme-de-la-creme, who also seem to make the media all the time.

If anybody forms impressions in India, it is these two groups. What we now need is larger numbers of middle class tourists from both countries, regardless of religion.

Aside:- how many Indians know that the previous Chief Secretary/Punjab and current Chairman/Bank of Punjab is a Muslim man called ``Randhawa``? (Did you read the news reports on him slaping his junior, the current CS/Punjab, in public? I had a Sikh Signals Instructor called Randhawa, in India, and presumably the genes are the same, I can still hear my ears ringing . . . )


As for the food, I don`t want to eat anything but khichdi and curd-rice with black pepper and salt for the next two weeks. I have not been force fed like this in a while, including by the spooks, most of whom melted because the concept of a father and son traveling was just too humane and close to their own lives, I think. I can`t even talk about some of the places I went to, unless we meet up front, I guess.

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Ally 10 . . . yes we speak Jhangi Punjabi at home, but I am now married to a South Indian lady for the past 24 years (not her fault!) so the children speak about 4 Indian languages at home, plus English. But at weddings, which I don`t like to attend, the terrible jokes are still in Jhangvi. No, I did not visit Jhung, I am going to do that in regal style some day soon. With my mother.

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Vereesh: Looking forward to the rest of your write-up. All of you deserve a lot of credit for making the effort to visit Pakistan.

Did you get a chance to get to Jhang? Jhang (or Jhung, as you called it), is famous for three things: Heer, Abdus-Salam, and the center of sectarian violence in Pakistan. Pakistan`s main Sunni terrorist organization is called Jhangvi, and its parent political party wins its only seat from Jhang.

Jhang is (was) a small place. So if your father grew up there, maybe he know Dr. Salam?

Everything in this artlcle makes sense, except the following line: ``Many people, I would say around 90%, are ``warning`` me against going.``

What exactly would Indians be afraid of, when they toured Pakistan? Did they think people were going to shoot at them? Be rude to them? Try to physically harm them?

I just cannot understand what kind of picture Indians have of Pakistanis? What exactly has your government and media been feeding them? And why do they believe it? Is there a website that has an Indian version of what a, ``Pakistani,`` is presumed to look like? Does he have horns and tail and gun in his hand? :-)

I was initially unable to understand why so many Indians were, ``overwhelmed`` by Pakistanis. I mean the average Pakistani on the street is a friendly guy. But overwhelmingly nice?. Give me a break. Now, I know why Indians were overwhelmed. I think Indians came with such apprehension, with a fearful picture of Pakistanis, that even if someone said, ``Hi`` to them or smiled at them, they would have been overwhelmed. Imagine a person coming in, fearing for his life, getting a free tea in a teashop. I guess he would be overwhelmed.....

An Indian collegue of mine kept telling me that he was afraid the Indian team would get blown up. And he is someone who is big on peace, and has taken the time to get to know a lot of Pakistanis. So, one of the more informed Indians. Yet it took me a while to convince him that no one in Pakistan would do anything to harm the Indian team. And people would be friendly towards them.

A friend of mine told me that his nephew was informed that the nephew`s roommate, when he arrived in a North American university to study, would be a student from India. He said a few days before the kid left Pakistan, the father of his roommate-to-be contacted the nephew`s from India. He sounded extremely concerned and worried for his son. And kept trying to convince my friend`s nephew that Indians were friendly people, and that they did not hate Muslims, and that they would be able to get along. Apparently, he was concerned that the nephew may try to harm his son.

I heard this story with a group of teenaged Pakistanis, and we could not stop from laughing, out loud.

Interestingly, I will be going to India this year, hopefully. Not a single Pakistani has tried to stop me. In fact, they have been quite nonchalant about it, as if I were visiting any other country. My father, now in Pakistan, grew up in Indian cities, but hasn`t been back since. So he said he will accompany me, as he wants to visit the places where he lived. We have no fear, no apprehensions, no nothing, about Indians. Both of us are looking forward to meeting normal friendly people (with no horns on their heads). We will not be ``overwhelmed,`` if an Indian smiles at us. We will be expecting it.

Infact I am starting to think the Indians there will be surprised to find out that we don`t have horns on our head. :-)

I think the Indians really need to challege their govt. and their media on why they have tried to brainwash the population, so much, about Pakistan and Pakistanis. And start to question themselves about why 90% are scared to visit the place, when the reality of Pakistan, is so obviously different. Such misconceptions are usually the biggest barriers to peace.......

Anyways, good to see you enjoyed yourself in Pakistan. Did you try Phajjay Day Payee, Benazir Kulfa, Anarkali ki chaat, and Liberty ka paan in Lahore? As well as Karim kay somosay, Akbar kay somosay in Pindi. If not, then I am afraid, you didn`t really get a chance to see Pakistan. You will need to make another trip...........