Declarations of Faith and The National Identity

Nooralain,

I hear you … although my unscholarly understanding has a slightly different slant.

In my view, the “hating the enemy … “ clause in Torah is somewhat contextual. In other places in Torah justice, righteousness are emphasized. Jesus being a prophet of god (in my view), had a deeper understanding of the principles of Torah, and explained that the times to be harsh are over, and one should now be kind and gentle to one’s enemies. In my view, he did not change or improve upon the Law … rather he explained the details of the Law in their proper context.


Isphahani Sahib,

Chalk up one more in favor of Issa (the second one). Here’s another parallel …that I forgot to mention. In continuation to my response to Nooralain (above) …

Just like the first Issa emphasized one aspect of Divine Law over another … in their proper contexts (kindness over harshness, as demanded by the prevailing circumstances) … the second Issa did the same. In line with this prophecy, Mirza Sahib explained that the times of fighting jihad are behind us, at least for now. In present times emphasis should be on acquisition of knowledge and establishing peace and harmony. The pre-requisites for fighting jihad, as outlined in Quran, no longer exist … and hence these are not the days of fighting jihad.

Our reluctance to engage in fighting jihad against the British earned us a bad name in the eyes of the mullah. We have practiced non-violence even when violently persecuted by the mullah. This is the true message of Islam … as explained in Quran … and as practiced by the dear Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It led Muhammad (pbuh) to success over evil … and we have full faith in Allah that He will lead us on the path to success once again … provided we remain patient and steadfast.


Nazar Sahib …

… fair enough … belief remains a personal matter … and should be treated as such.

I do think that as long as a person is sincere in his search for truth … and shows kindness and mercy to others … he will be treated mercifully by Allah Almighty … regardless of his affiliation as a sunni, wahabi, Buddhist, or atheist.

sattar#23
Do Ahmedis believe sharia to be an essential part of Islam? Thanks in anticipation!

#62 by arjun_m on June 11, 2004 10:42am PT
#60 by Urstruly on June 11, 2004 7:36am PT
``So do atheists...Just had mine yesterday....got off with a warning, a small fine and most importantly, no points.... ``

Very droll indeed. I just prey that my judgement day is not at hands of a religionist.

# 56 by nooralain

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the law of Moses. .in regards to Jesus Christ. . .was improved upon
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Biblical literature bears testimony to the evolution of a tribal God into an Universal Father figure. And Christ was indeed an important milestone in this evolution. There is a qualitative difference between the God of Moses and the God of Christ.

The God of Old Testament was sectarian, partisan and a firm task-master. He would rain plagues on the Egyptians and even kill their innocent first borns for the sake of the Chosen People.

Christ`s God, in stark contrast was everyone`s God - of the ``Barbarians, the circumcised, the Greeks, the Scythians, the bonded and the free``.

And as befits the pacifist in Christ, his God acts quite differently than the God of Moses. You won`t see Him smiting Pilate or even Judas. Instead we see Jesus praying, even in the throes of his death, ``Father forgive them for they know not what they do``

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The God of Old Testament was sectarian, partisan and a firm task-master. He would rain plagues on the Egyptians and even kill their innocent first borns for the sake of the Chosen People.
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To be fair, God of Moses could be harsh even with Moses who wasn`t allowed to reach the Promised Land even after 40 years of wandering in the desert - apparently God remained unforgivingly displeased with Moses after his faith faltered momentarily in a moment of weakness.

Agnostics have a Day of Judgement too? That cames as a news to me today.

Sattar2 # 55

(This is a commonly misunderstood notion … in my view (… Muhammad being the last prophet)

I respect your belief. And everyone else`s personal belief.

As to who is right or wrong - Sunnis, Wahabis, Christians, Buddhist Monks, Johawa`s Witnesses, Athiests, Fire Worshippers etc, it for God to decide on the day of judgement.

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the law of Moses. .in regards to Jesus Christ. . .was improved upon (for lack of a better word right now) by this:

--Ye have heard that it hath been said. Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; that ye may be children of your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5: 43-45--

Isphahani Sahib,

The second Issa (mentioned in ahadith) is not supposed to be exactly like the first Issa. The two individuals are supposed to bear similarities. It is like calling an intelligent person, Einstein. The idea is to communicate important details by drawing parallels between the two.

Similarities between the two Issa …

- First Issa (Jesus Christ) did not bring a new law. He came 1400 years after Moses, in order to bring Jews back to the Law of Moses. He appeared in times when Jews had become corrupt and divided into 72 sects, were under the strong influence of crooked clergy, and were ruled by an outside nation (Romans).

- Similarly, according to ahadith, second Issa is not supposed to bring a new law. He is supposed to appear 14 centuries after Muhammad, with the aim to bring people back to the Law of Muhammad (Islam). He is supposed to appear when Muslims have become corrupt and divided into 72 sects, would be living under strong influence of crooked clergy, and would be ruled by an outside nation (the British, as the case turned out to be).

Are these similarities enough? Or would like to insist that the two Issa must have same height, weight, cholesterol level, shoe size etc. These are superficial details. You are overlooking the larger, meaningful similarities.

Indeed, in these ahadith, prophet Muhammad foretold the future of the ummah … how and when their downfall will come … and how Allah will raise a prophet to guide them … very much like the first Issa-ibne-Marriam.

More on ahadith …

Some ahadith also mention the region “Hind” and even the town “Qada” (original name of Qadian) in association with the second coming of Christ. All this is too much of a coincidence in my view.

And finally …

As for persecution … I guess Muhammad was really not persecuted. He left Mecca since he got tired of paying high property taxes … and did not like his daily commute. And the weather in Mecca was also a b!tch.

If you don’t think Muhammad was persecuted in Mecca … I don’t know what to tell you …

#53 by M.B.Z.Isphahani on June 10, 2004 4:20pm PT

I agree Isphahani Saheb- You have raised a very important issue regarding those who hate non-muslims and try to use violence against them than try to bring them to the muslim faith through love and patience.
Even violent provocation should not make a muslim react in violence- he should try to bring the non-believers to faith through patience and becoming an exemplar through practising all the good virtues agree to upon in Islam.
You have made a very important point which our educated jahils do not understand.

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Nazar (#43) …

This is a commonly misunderstood notion … in my view (… Muhammad being the last prophet).

Much controversy surrounds the meaning of “khattam-un-nabiyeen”. References I have indicate that such terms … “khattam-ul-auliya”, “kahattam-ul-mufasareen” etc. have been commonly used in Arabic to indicate a person’s high status. It seems that ahadith are also twisted by mullahs to fit the notion of end of prophethood. There’s a lot more … but I’ll refrain for now.

Continuation of prophethood has been accepted by some of the best-known scholars of Islam (Mohiyyiuddin ibne Arabi, Shah Waliullah, Jalaluddin Room etc.). Acceptance of “continuation” by these scholars does not necessarily prove it, agreed. What it does prove is that the issue has been debated in the past ... and it is incorrect for mullahs to insist that “continuation” view is without merit.

Such insistence from mullahs amounts to lies, aimed at erecting barriers in the way of Allah’s messengers. Such double-talk from enemies of Allah has been mentioned in several places in Quran … since this pattern is expected to repeat each time a prophet appears. Note that two Chowkies most vehemently supporting end of prophethood are … Urstruly and Naqshbandi. Enough said …

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