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Declarations of Faith and The National Identity

talawat bokhari June 8, 2004

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#34 Posted by nakhok on June 9, 2004 8:38:07 pm
Punishment for Apostates in Islamic Law
By Maulana Maudoodi

..... Whenever an Islamic revolution takes place, all non-practicing Muslims should, within one year, declare their turning away from Islam and get out of Muslim society. After one year all born Muslims will be considered Muslims. All Islamic laws will be enforced upon them. They will be forced to practice all of the obligatory duties (faraid) and optional duties (wajibat) of their religion and if anyone wishes to leave Islam, he will be executed. Every effort will be made to save as many people as possible from falling into lap of disbelief (kufr). But those who cannot be saved will be reluctantly separated from society forever. .....
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#33 Posted by nakhok on June 9, 2004 8:38:07 pm
Between 1984 and 1997, there have been over 3,000 cases against the Ahmadiyas under the law of blasphemy - the largest number, about 750 being under Section 295B. These 750 accused have been prosecuted for displaying the Kalima - the tenet which says, ``There is none worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah``. A hundred and forty were prosecuted under the blasphemy Section 296C. In 1989, the entire population of Rabwah, the Ahmadiya headquarters in Pakistan, was charged under the Pakistan Penal Code Section 298C which is a special anti-Ahmadiya law. During 1997, three Ahmadiyas were killed because of their faith; three others were sentenced to 25-year imprisonment and Rs 50,000 fine on a charge of blasphemy which was added six years after they were initially charged with preaching Ahmadi-yat; 32 were charged under anti-Ahmadiya and blasphemy laws, and 59 cases were registered on religious grounds (Source, HRCP Annual Reports 1996 and 1997).
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#32 Posted by nakhok on June 9, 2004 8:38:07 pm
DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
27 June 2002 Thursday 15 Rabi-us-Saani 1423

Letter To The Editor

Religious declaration
by M. KHALIL SHEIKH, Rabwah, Pakistan

Leaders of various religious parties on the Mutahidda Majlis Amal platform gave a deadline for the reintroduction of a religious declaration by all Muslim voters. The threat worked and the very next day, the reintroduction of the religious form was announced by the government.

Now, every Muslim voter has to sign a form in which abusive language is used against the Ahmadiya sect and its founder. And if any citizen of Pakistan does not submit this religious declaration, he will not be regarded a Muslim and his name will be included in the non-Muslim list of voters.

Apart from this, Maulana Fazlur Rahman of the MMA has also called upon his followers to send him the names of Qadianis occupying `key posts`, so that he could get them removed. One may ask the Maulana Sahib as to what he means by `key posts`. Even a chowkidar can be said to be holding a sensitive post because no `sahib bahadur` can enter his office unless his peon/ chowkidar unlocks the door/ gate with the keys in his possession.

Let Maulana Sahib know that unlike his ancestors, the Ahmadiyia community had voted for the creation of a Muslim-majority independent Pakistan and since then not a single instance can be cited in which an Ahmadi was given a job on the basis of his sect or faith.

Let it also be known that ever since the Ahmadi/ Qadiani citizens were constitutionally declared `non-Muslims for the purposes of law`, not a single Ahmadi resident of Rabwah has been given any job in its town committee. Rabwah town has more than 50,000 residents, of which 95 per cent are Ahmadis, but their daily life is put to hardships of various kinds by the maulvis of other towns.
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#31 Posted by Romair on June 9, 2004 8:33:45 pm
It is quite ridiculous for any State to define who does and does not belong to any religion. If this law is followed, then Sunnis will not be Muslims in Pakistan, if their population decreases to say 1% of the total population. Religion, then becomes a function of power of majority.

This does not mean that at an individual level, one must be forced to accept another reliigion or sect in a manner that is not acceptable to one. If some person does not consider Shias, or Sunnis or Ahmedis to be Muslims, it is her/his right not to do so. No one can nor should stop her/him. What she/he cannot do is enforce this outside his own personal sphere.

If you don`t consider Sunnis to be Muslims, don`t marry your daughters to them. Fine. But don`t try to get the State to declare them non-Muslims also.

I really don`t know whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not. The politically correct thing to say would be that they are. The mullah-ly correct thing to say is that they aren`t. I really don`t know. Maybe they are and maybe they aren`t. There is obviously a distinct difference in what they believe, and what I believe. But does than make them non-Muslim? Who knows, maybe it makes me non-Muslim. Then again, maybe it makes them non-Muslims.

The main point is that whether I believe or do not believe Ahmedis or anyone else to be Muslims, is my opinion. I can believe it, but I cannot dictate it on others. What if tomorrow I end up in a country filled with Ahmedis and they declare me non-Muslim? That right should be left to God. Let him decide. Why the hell should I bother about it?

If the State starts declaring people Muslims or not, then where do we stop? Urstruly and Naqshbandi both believe Ahmedis are non-Muslims. However, Urstruly believes in Shia-Sunni unity, where Naqshbandi believes Shias are a cause of trouble also. So how in the world are Urstruly and Naqshbandi going to survive together, once they get beyond their common union regarding Ahmedis?

Musharraf is the best thing that has happened to religious minorities in Pakistan, since Jinnah.......My suggestion to them would be to stick with him. The other major parties will shift with the wind, as it suits them...........
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#30 Posted by sattar2 on June 9, 2004 4:00:10 pm

Hellbound (#18):

Root cause of persecution of Ahmadis is old-fashioned bigotry. If not, then one can also argue that Muhammad was persecuted from otherwise peaceful Meccans for downplaying the need for worshipping idols. You shouldn’t blame the Meccans … you know … Muhammad too really asked for it …

When it comes to fatwas of kuffr … mullah is only one animal. Some of the self-proclaimed educated Muslims nurture this fetish as well. This obsession is somewhat of a singularity point … where claims to tolerance breakdown … off come the gloves … and off come the masks of civility. “Only-I-got-it-right” attitude is used to launch declarations of kuffr … as one continues to decay intellectually.

As for the prophethood issue … here are my views …

1. Quran and ahadith leave no doubt in my mind about continuation of prophethood (yes, you read this right … no doubt about continuation of prophethood …)

2. More importantly, one should interpret Quran/ahadith as it makes sense to him. However, there is no room for fatwas of kuffr. As the author pointed out, Quran forbids even Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from declaring others as non-Muslims.
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#29 Posted by AhmadBilal on June 9, 2004 3:36:22 pm
This is totally outrageous. Coming from a conservative Sunni family, I have been having fierce debates over this issue with many people. For me, religion can mean something different at different points of time, ranging from nothing to a certain kind of romantic spirituality to something cultural, but never a form of extremist fundamentalism. I get offended by the thing that I am forced by the state not only to declare my religious affiliations, but also to declare whether someone else is a Muslim or not. Some of my very good friends belong to the mentioned sect, and I am surprised that in spite of this nonsense, they are still very attached with Pakistan. Thanks.
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#28 Posted by nakhok on June 9, 2004 2:53:40 pm
DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
31 January, 2001

[The basic consideration as to who and what constitutes a real Muslim is being disputed all the time. I am a Muslim today but there is no guarantee that I shall continue to be acknowledged as one tomorrow.]

Creating new minorities
By Hafizur Rahman

..... Apart from hearing from some ulema how the mere addition of religion on a citizen`s national identity card would weld the masses together into one nation for the first time in the country`s history, we had Dr Israr Ahmed of the Tanzeem-e-Islami solving the minorities problem for ever by suggesting the imposition of jazia tax on them. There have been other outlandish ideas too but these two were truly unbeatable.

Jazia, as you will recall, was an institution of the Islamic state whereby its non-Muslim citizens paid a certain tax into the treasury to ensure their protection. They were not required to pay zakat and other dues like Muslims. I think the last time this happened in this part of the world was in the time of Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb who tried to prove
that there could be an Islamic state even if its Muslim population was in a minority.

Of course there is no such problem now. Muslims are in an overwhelming majority in Pakistan, though the way some fanatics want it, this majority may no longer remain overwhelming. The basic consideration as to who and what constitutes a real Muslim is being disputed all the time. I am a Muslim today but there is no guarantee that I shall continue to be acknowledged as one tomorrow.

Dr Israr Ahmed made the proposal about jazia more than two years ago but has not repeated it, publicly at least. Maybe he has changed his mind. Anyway, if he were to come into power somehow and did impose the jazia on non-Muslims, that would not exclude the possibility of some ulema demanding that since, for some odd reason, he was not sufficiently Muslim, he too should pay that tax.

It`s like this. The Ahmedis have already been pushed out of the pale of Islam. But they were never in large numbers anyway. Now the Anjuman Sipah-e-Sahaba insists that the Shias should be treated likewise. Moreover if you accept the contention of some members of the JUI, anyone subscribing to the views of Maulana Maudoodi is a kafir, a heretic. Many other religious parties and sects say the same about one another. After the final elimination, therefore, may be hardly anyone is left in Pakistan called Muslim by anyone except himself.

But in that case a rarity might be President/Prime Minister Israr Ahmed himself. A combination of forces, say a political-cum-clerical alliance, may then lay down that if he wants to remain the top man of the country he must start paying jazia. And, horror of horrors! the good doctor may agree to do so, under protest of course.

I don`t know how much the jazia amounts to but I`m told it isn`t much for an individual to pay. Zakat too is not much, but look at the billions the government is able to amass through its imposition via banks and savings institutions. In fact, with the majority of the population having been declared non-Muslim, jazia could become the biggest source of revenue, if the ruling regime were to give up its secular ideas about managing Pakistan.

All that the government would have to do would be to encourage the official labelling of as many sects and groups as non-Muslim as possible. This should not be difficult, considering the enthusiasm with which we are ready to declare everybody else as kafir. The result would be the generation of such a colossal amount as jazia tax that even the depredations of corrupt and rapacious collectors would be unable to make a sizable dent in it.

As an aside on the position of minorities in this country, it is interesting to imagine what might have been. Let us visualize the state of affairs that would have prevailed if mass migrations had not taken place in 1947, since they were not on the cards at all. Hindus and Sikhs would have comprised a sizable percentage of present Pakistan and almost 40 per cent of our Punjab`s population.

Lahore would still be substantially owned by Pakistani Hindus, while Lyallpur and Rawalpindi would have been economically dominated by Pakistani Sikhs. Lahore in Pakistan and Amritsar in India would have been like twin cities. Of course there would have been a host of problems - very serious and complex problems - occasioned by a large section of the people being hostile to the very idea of Pakistan, but we might have been spared the induction of new minorities into our system which sectarianism among Muslims is now promoting.

Continuing this conjecture to the political field, we might have had, once in a while, a Sikh as chief minister of Punjab. After all, a handful of anti-Muslim League legislators did sustain a Unionist ministry in the province, with the help of Hindu and Sikh members, in the years before partition. And this had happened when, for more than two years, the largest single party in the Punjab Assembly was the Muslim League. coalitions can do the strangest things.

In the event the declaration of Pakistan as an Islamic state may have been difficult, and its non-Muslims would certainly have resisted the imposition of jazia and resorted to non-payment through civil disobedience. But there was nothing to stop us Muslims from declaring one or more of our sects as kafir, thus ending in the fantastic, though not impossible, situation of leaving true Muslims as a hapless minority in Pakistan.

As we savour the trite, hackneyed and puerile messages of government and political leaders on our national days (or on any other bright day that they think is good for a message) let us also give a thought to what might have been, as detailed by me in the above paragraphs. Most of all, let us not do anything to encourage the
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#27 Posted by nakhok on June 9, 2004 2:53:39 pm
I cannot think of any innocent explanation for the fact that Pakistan`s ruling elite cannot live in peace with the claims of decent God-fearing Ahmadiyas to be Muslims. As far as I am concerned, a just God would rather count men like Zafrulla Khan and Prof. Abdus Salam among the faithful than scoundrels like ``Field Marshal`` Ayub Khan and Generals Tikka Khan, Yahya Khan, Zia ul-Huq and Pervez Musharraf. I`ll be wary of any human being who would indulge in theological hair-splitting in an attempt to ``prove`` the opposite.
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#26 Posted by sattar2 on June 9, 2004 2:53:39 pm

Isphahani Sahib (#13) ...

… your proposal does not go far enough …

… while the government should take the halafnama from each person … in person … it should also stamp on the person’s forehead if he is truly on the path of righteousness, or not. This will cut down long lines and bureaucracy on judgment day. Green stamp – meet the virgins … red stamp – go suck mud.

Of course, this plan will need to be scrapped altogether if Gabriel turns out to be colorblind …

++++++

Paradox,

… your point is spot on …
… this is what Ahmadis believe … precisely … precisely …

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#25 Posted by paradox on June 9, 2004 11:48:36 am
Being a non-beleiver this issue has no emotional siginificance for me but only for the sake of argument I would like to share my review and I apologize beforehand, to anyone who is offended.
Why were prophets sent?Obviously whenever there was evil and people reached a certain threshold of evil,which only God know, the prophets were sent to warn the people and show them the right path. The question is,why stop the process? Has the evil been defeated, I would say quite conterary to that,it has grown more and at the present age it has gone out of proportion. Rationally speaking, now is the time, more than ever for God to sent as much prophets as possible. I dont see any reason or harm in that and to me that is the logical course of action. In Old testement there were maney prophets even at the same time in differnt neighbourhoods so why cant we have some in this present age.
One becomes a muslim by beliveing``There is no god but ALLAH and Mohammad is his messenger`` There is no mention of the last prophet and it was added in the mainstream after the death of the prophet to counter the so called false prophets who were tying to make claims to prophethood. As for me, there is no harm is having new prophets OR it might me that God has lost his hope in mankind and finally turned his back on us.
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#24 Posted by paradox on June 9, 2004 10:41:46 am
Being a non-beleiver this issue has no emotional siginificance for me but only for the sake of argument I would like to share my review and I apologize beforehand, to anyone who is offended.
Why were prophets sent?Obviously whenever there was evil and people reached a certain threshold of evil,which only God know, the prophets were sent to warn the people and show them the right path. The question is,why stop the process? Has the evil been defeated, I would say quite conterary to that,it has grown more and at the present age it has gone out of proportion. Rationally speaking, now is the time, more than ever for God to sent as much prophets as possible. I dont see any reason or harm in that and to me that is the logical course of action. In Old testement there were maney prophets even at the same time in differnt neighbourhoods so why cant we have some in this present age.
One becomes a muslim by beliveing``There is no god but ALLAH and Mohammad is his messenger`` There is no mention of the last prophet and it was added in the mainstream after the death of the prophet to counter the so called false prophets who were tying to make claims to prophethood. As for me, there is no harm is having new prophets OR it might me that God has lost his hope in mankind and finally turned his back on us.
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#23 Posted by arjun_m on June 9, 2004 10:23:33 am
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#22 Posted by sattar2 on June 9, 2004 10:23:33 am

kaurasach (#11):

Main points of Ahmadi-Muslim beliefs are as follows:

Belief in Islam
We believe in Almighty Allah and all the tenets of Muslim faith. These include Muslim faith as prescribed by Quran, 5 daily prayers (plus additional prayers), paying zaakat, fasting during Ramzan, and performing Haj (pilgrimage to Mecca).

Completeness of Divine Law in the form of Quran
Islam is the complete, final religion from Allah Almighty, as revealed in Quran, through Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Continuation of prophethhood after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
Allah will raise prophets as needed to guide people back to the message of Islam. These prophets will hold Quran as their foremost guide. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib of Qadian (1835-1908) was one such prophet.

Demise of Prophet Issa (pbuh)
Prophet Issa (pbuh) was not lifted up to the skies. He was put on the cross, but survived. He recovered, migrated to India, and is buried in Kashmir (district Srinagar).

Miracles and laws of physics
No miracles mentioned in Quran were against laws of nature. Incorrect interpretation of “miracles” has led to the perception that laws of nature were violated by prophets (prophets raising the dead, parting oceans, flying above clouds, etc.).

Jihad and world peace
Jihad means to strive for peace in our lives and in our communities. Islam allows armed conflicts strictly for defensive purposes against invading, unjust armies. In this day and age, emphasis needs to be on education, understanding, and adherence to principles of peace outlined in Quran. None of this can be accomplished without harmony between different faiths and nations. Achieving this harmony is the main objective of jihad. There is absolutely no room for suicide bombings, destruction of temples and churches, harassment or persecution of people of other faiths, etc. Every individual should have full freedom to practice his faith in a peaceful manner.
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#21 Posted by jang on June 9, 2004 9:11:56 am
``can be sentenced to death (under Section 295-C of Pakistan Penal Code) if they dare use Islamic expressions like Asslam-o-Alaikum, Bismillah and Insallah. ``

Does not the hindu cricket player danish say inshallah in public on TV? Is that an offense?

Also, can anyone clarify what is the position of Ahmedias in India (i dont think they exist anywhere else much). Are they under mulsim civil code? Are they shunned by other muslims?
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#20 Posted by Inquirer on June 9, 2004 9:03:50 am
#14, Nazarhayatkhan:
Yours is the only sensible statement. When will the dimwits - the most charitable interpretation for the secessionists - realize that they shall have to pay for the nefarious philosophy and obsession leading to the division of India?

I am waiting for the day when Sunnis and Shias of each town will demuslim each other!!
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#19 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on June 9, 2004 7:31:17 am
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    #82 teshah
    #81 Inquirer
    #80 teshah
    #79 Ralph
    #78 teshah
    #77 AyeshaIjazKhan
    #76 M.B.Z.Isphahani
    #75 M.B.Z.Isphahani
    #74 M.B.Z.Isphahani
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    #64 jang
    #63 nakhok
    #62 arjun_m
    #61 nakhok
    #60 Urstruly
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    #58 M.B.Z.Isphahani
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    #39 hellbound
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    #36 nikki7777
    #35 nakhok
    #34 nakhok
    #33 nakhok
    #32 nakhok
    #31 Romair
    #30 sattar2
    #29 AhmadBilal
    #28 nakhok
    #27 nakhok
    #26 sattar2
    #25 paradox
    #24 paradox
    #23 arjun_m
    #22 sattar2
    #21 jang
    #20 Inquirer
    #19 M.B.Z.Isphahani
    #18 mubakr
    #17 mubakr
    #16 hellbound
    #15 arjun_m
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    #10 M.B.Z.Isphahani
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    #8 nakhok
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