Declarations of Faith and The National Identity

1 by Ralph

Thank you dear for your interaction. You made very unkind remarks which were totally uncalled for. But I was not surprised when I read your Ilog in your prophile. Sorry to say that you seem to be a little unbalanced and much misinformed as appears from your remarks about the great leader MR. M.A. Jinnah. I wonder what kind of morals you believe in. You can of course criticise any religion or ideology. etc., but one should be careful when slandering some body especially when he is not there to reply.

Most religionists are self-deceived and self-deluded and the muslims are most hopelessly and idiotically so.

79 by Ralph

You are absolutely right dear Ralph. After all religion and history too, to some extent, are great myths, a make-believe world. As an ethnic Arab Pakistani I consider the `Jahilia` and `Islam` both part of my own culture and `Allah` my national god who is stated to have saved `Kahba` from the onslought of a christian Ibrah when it was a `Butkhana` with 164 or so idols being worshiped in it. Baqoul Ghalib:-

Ham mawaahid hein hamaara keish he tarke rasoom
ummatein jab mit gaeen juzwe eeman ho gaeen

How paradoxical! What Allah prevented a Habshi christian from he prompted an Arab to accomplish, i.e., to destoy the idols, except one of course, the black stone. Interesting isn`t it, eh! Without myths our life would perhaps be unbearable. What a poet has said:-

Yih khoob kia he, yih zisht kia he, jahan ki asl sarisht kia he
bara maza ho agar koi tammam chehre be naqaab kar de

tesah

``pre-Islamic Jahilia``

Couldn`t figure out the sense in which you made this reference, but the uncritical acceptance and propagation of such disastrous myths have had terrible consequences. I hope the `Islamic world` will begin to see some objective and scientific studies of the pre-Islamic times in their societies. It will reduce the amount of fanaticism that is endemic.

77 by Ayesha
Thank you dear Ayesha for the encouragement. We should all thank the `chowk` which has provided us with a forum where we can speak out the truth in this mullah-zaddah society like pre-Islamic Jahilia. A punjabi poet says:-

Sochan di mayyat lei ke mein kehre ghar jawaan
Je bolaan te mara jaawan je nah bolan te mar jawaan

I would like to have direct contact with the Chowkies who like the topic discussed.

Thanks for this article. It is always good to hear from honest individuals like yourself. Hope to read more from you.

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Isphahani Sahib,

Morons like you keep insisting that Ahmadis are a product of British conspiracy. When asked for evidence … you only air rhetoric. Urstruly here is the prime example … and now we have you …

You claim that Ahmadis are conspiring to capture all Muslim economy … and they are spying on you. Get off crack/cocaine … or whatever the hell you are smoking …

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An interesting interaction from Dr. Khurram, a friend and relative, residing in Newyork:-


``Long time no see,looks u get hooked up with other affair than internet.I ve started externship so kind of busy in that.

I read your article twice.This is awsome and beautifully written.I believe that it`s tip of an ice berg in a mullah stricken ,theocratic society like pakistan.

asking someone to declare faith in different gov forms for whatever reason is very embarrassing and exploitative for those who don`t want to discuss about it.

I recently filled an application form for my Federal state medical board exam of Connecicut board.They do have a section regarding applicants ethinicity and race but its always optional and applicats are encouraged to fill it for research purpses.Infact they have mentioned in that column that it`s not going to affect the processing of your application in any way.They don`t ask about your faith either.

I can understand your point while living in this alien society.Most of the programs I went for for my residency job has a motto that they do not discriminate on the basis of religion,caste,race,color.

That gives us (Desis living in US and striving to become a part of this alien system) a sense of hope , security and a dignity in the society which has values , customs; in short every thing totally different from eastern society.We cannot even give respect and honor to our own people whom we have been living with for centuries and they are compatible with our society and its customs. Thank God they don`t make us feel, like Qadianis in pakistan, here.

Khuda hafiz,

Khurram``

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Nooralain,

I hear you … although my unscholarly understanding has a slightly different slant.

In my view, the “hating the enemy … “ clause in Torah is somewhat contextual. In other places in Torah justice, righteousness are emphasized. Jesus being a prophet of god (in my view), had a deeper understanding of the principles of Torah, and explained that the times to be harsh are over, and one should now be kind and gentle to one’s enemies. In my view, he did not change or improve upon the Law … rather he explained the details of the Law in their proper context.


Isphahani Sahib,

Chalk up one more in favor of Issa (the second one). Here’s another parallel …that I forgot to mention. In continuation to my response to Nooralain (above) …

Just like the first Issa emphasized one aspect of Divine Law over another … in their proper contexts (kindness over harshness, as demanded by the prevailing circumstances) … the second Issa did the same. In line with this prophecy, Mirza Sahib explained that the times of fighting jihad are behind us, at least for now. In present times emphasis should be on acquisition of knowledge and establishing peace and harmony. The pre-requisites for fighting jihad, as outlined in Quran, no longer exist … and hence these are not the days of fighting jihad.

Our reluctance to engage in fighting jihad against the British earned us a bad name in the eyes of the mullah. We have practiced non-violence even when violently persecuted by the mullah. This is the true message of Islam … as explained in Quran … and as practiced by the dear Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It led Muhammad (pbuh) to success over evil … and we have full faith in Allah that He will lead us on the path to success once again … provided we remain patient and steadfast.


Nazar Sahib …

… fair enough … belief remains a personal matter … and should be treated as such.

I do think that as long as a person is sincere in his search for truth … and shows kindness and mercy to others … he will be treated mercifully by Allah Almighty … regardless of his affiliation as a sunni, wahabi, Buddhist, or atheist.

sattar#23
Do Ahmedis believe sharia to be an essential part of Islam? Thanks in anticipation!

#62 by arjun_m on June 11, 2004 10:42am PT
#60 by Urstruly on June 11, 2004 7:36am PT
``So do atheists...Just had mine yesterday....got off with a warning, a small fine and most importantly, no points.... ``

Very droll indeed. I just prey that my judgement day is not at hands of a religionist.

# 56 by nooralain

+++++
the law of Moses. .in regards to Jesus Christ. . .was improved upon
+++++

Biblical literature bears testimony to the evolution of a tribal God into an Universal Father figure. And Christ was indeed an important milestone in this evolution. There is a qualitative difference between the God of Moses and the God of Christ.

The God of Old Testament was sectarian, partisan and a firm task-master. He would rain plagues on the Egyptians and even kill their innocent first borns for the sake of the Chosen People.

Christ`s God, in stark contrast was everyone`s God - of the ``Barbarians, the circumcised, the Greeks, the Scythians, the bonded and the free``.

And as befits the pacifist in Christ, his God acts quite differently than the God of Moses. You won`t see Him smiting Pilate or even Judas. Instead we see Jesus praying, even in the throes of his death, ``Father forgive them for they know not what they do``

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The God of Old Testament was sectarian, partisan and a firm task-master. He would rain plagues on the Egyptians and even kill their innocent first borns for the sake of the Chosen People.
+++++

To be fair, God of Moses could be harsh even with Moses who wasn`t allowed to reach the Promised Land even after 40 years of wandering in the desert - apparently God remained unforgivingly displeased with Moses after his faith faltered momentarily in a moment of weakness.

Agnostics have a Day of Judgement too? That cames as a news to me today.

Sattar2 # 55

(This is a commonly misunderstood notion … in my view (… Muhammad being the last prophet)

I respect your belief. And everyone else`s personal belief.

As to who is right or wrong - Sunnis, Wahabis, Christians, Buddhist Monks, Johawa`s Witnesses, Athiests, Fire Worshippers etc, it for God to decide on the day of judgement.

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the law of Moses. .in regards to Jesus Christ. . .was improved upon (for lack of a better word right now) by this:

--Ye have heard that it hath been said. Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; that ye may be children of your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5: 43-45--

Isphahani Sahib,

The second Issa (mentioned in ahadith) is not supposed to be exactly like the first Issa. The two individuals are supposed to bear similarities. It is like calling an intelligent person, Einstein. The idea is to communicate important details by drawing parallels between the two.

Similarities between the two Issa …

- First Issa (Jesus Christ) did not bring a new law. He came 1400 years after Moses, in order to bring Jews back to the Law of Moses. He appeared in times when Jews had become corrupt and divided into 72 sects, were under the strong influence of crooked clergy, and were ruled by an outside nation (Romans).

- Similarly, according to ahadith, second Issa is not supposed to bring a new law. He is supposed to appear 14 centuries after Muhammad, with the aim to bring people back to the Law of Muhammad (Islam). He is supposed to appear when Muslims have become corrupt and divided into 72 sects, would be living under strong influence of crooked clergy, and would be ruled by an outside nation (the British, as the case turned out to be).

Are these similarities enough? Or would like to insist that the two Issa must have same height, weight, cholesterol level, shoe size etc. These are superficial details. You are overlooking the larger, meaningful similarities.

Indeed, in these ahadith, prophet Muhammad foretold the future of the ummah … how and when their downfall will come … and how Allah will raise a prophet to guide them … very much like the first Issa-ibne-Marriam.

More on ahadith …

Some ahadith also mention the region “Hind” and even the town “Qada” (original name of Qadian) in association with the second coming of Christ. All this is too much of a coincidence in my view.

And finally …

As for persecution … I guess Muhammad was really not persecuted. He left Mecca since he got tired of paying high property taxes … and did not like his daily commute. And the weather in Mecca was also a b!tch.

If you don’t think Muhammad was persecuted in Mecca … I don’t know what to tell you …

#53 by M.B.Z.Isphahani on June 10, 2004 4:20pm PT

I agree Isphahani Saheb- You have raised a very important issue regarding those who hate non-muslims and try to use violence against them than try to bring them to the muslim faith through love and patience.
Even violent provocation should not make a muslim react in violence- he should try to bring the non-believers to faith through patience and becoming an exemplar through practising all the good virtues agree to upon in Islam.
You have made a very important point which our educated jahils do not understand.

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Nazar (#43) …

This is a commonly misunderstood notion … in my view (… Muhammad being the last prophet).

Much controversy surrounds the meaning of “khattam-un-nabiyeen”. References I have indicate that such terms … “khattam-ul-auliya”, “kahattam-ul-mufasareen” etc. have been commonly used in Arabic to indicate a person’s high status. It seems that ahadith are also twisted by mullahs to fit the notion of end of prophethood. There’s a lot more … but I’ll refrain for now.

Continuation of prophethood has been accepted by some of the best-known scholars of Islam (Mohiyyiuddin ibne Arabi, Shah Waliullah, Jalaluddin Room etc.). Acceptance of “continuation” by these scholars does not necessarily prove it, agreed. What it does prove is that the issue has been debated in the past ... and it is incorrect for mullahs to insist that “continuation” view is without merit.

Such insistence from mullahs amounts to lies, aimed at erecting barriers in the way of Allah’s messengers. Such double-talk from enemies of Allah has been mentioned in several places in Quran … since this pattern is expected to repeat each time a prophet appears. Note that two Chowkies most vehemently supporting end of prophethood are … Urstruly and Naqshbandi. Enough said …

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#41 by ahmadzai & #45 by harish_hyd

Why do we always have to compete on who is worse? Both Pakistan and India have a history of gross human rights violations against minorities, which continues without any substantial signs of change. Thanks.

harish-hyd at # 45:

angggggh. Your answer is totally wrong. You get 0/100. You are out of the race. Those who killed Bengalis were not elected representatives of the people.

If ever I take a guess now, its on your IQ. I am sure it has not reached the +ive numbers yet.

Cheers.

:-)

Romair,

The debate about who is, and who is not a Muslim … reminds me of a joke ... about a blind man, in a dark room, trying to find a black cat, that isn’t there. There are several layers of ironies and counter-ironies at play here ...

This whole debate is an inconsequential one … except perhaps for folks like Urstruly, tahmed, and now, the honorable Isphahani Sahib.


Isphahani Sahib …

You keep rambling about Massih #1, 2, 3 … what’s the deal? Where are you getting this information??? I am tempted to guess you are severely misinformed. Maybe you should try to articulate simple thoughts in simple words.

Ahmadi viewpoint is that … Mirza Sahib is the Issa-ibne-Marriam and the Imam Mahdi of our age as foretold by prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and a prophet of God... Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will always remain the noblest of all prophets ... Quran is the complete, final religion from Allah. Tell me again what`s bothering you ...

Your latest comment … that Muhammad was not persecuted … is a new one. I guess all the incidents of him being stoned in streets of Taif, ridiculed and harrassed in Mecca, held in siege with attempts to kill, being forced to flee, fighting invading armies from Mecca … is all media hype! Is it CNN … or Al-Jazera that came up with all these stories? I am lost …

The point remains ... if Ahmadis follow Quran ... pray to Allah ... calim to be Muslims ... no one can justifiably declare them otherwise...

[... getting into a debate with you will probably be a bad idea ... maybe I should start smoking whatever you are on ...]

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#41 by ahmadzai

[I think sociologists and political scientists should also start studying whether there is ANY country in the world other than India where innocent minorities have been killed.......]

Sure, there is a country that went one step further. It perpetrated a genocide, the likes of which has not been seen in a while, on its own countrymen belonging to the eastern wing just because it refused to accept the language that the western wing tried to impose on it. The soldiers from the western wing massacred hundreds of thousands of Bengalis, raped thousands of Bengali women and gleefully said they were only helping purify Bengali race as they were not Muslim enough. Wanna take a guess?

#43 by nazarhayatkhan on June 10, 2004 3:18am PT

``....Does that mean that God has lost the option of changing his mind for all times; and is unable to send yet another messenger?.....``

Strictly speaking this is another cogent argument against the omnipotency of the God,-


God is powerless before his own words!! His future actions are determined by his own words said in the past.

QED

But strange are his ways.........

1400 years ago, God told his messenger that he was the last Prophet.

Does that mean that God has lost the option of changing his mind for all times; and is unable to send yet another messenger?

We do not know what is in God`s mind. Maybe, it is better to leave the ways of the Cosmic to itself; and not give final judgements based on little knowledge.

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sparchus at # 39:

I think sociologists and political scientists should also start studying whether there is ANY country in the world other than India where innocent minorities have been killed under a pogrom by people who have been voted into power by the citizens, er I mean the communal violence and killings have been made by those elected to power and who are running scotch free.

umma is a b!tch with twenty dogs chasing her and she trying to hide here and there in panic...this b!tch keeps changing faces...

Arjun sb:

The point I was trying to make was that Catholic, Baptists, etc. etc, may have different interpretation of their respective sects vis-a-vis religion, but none of these sects defy the basic principle of Christianity which is the centrality of Christ as a divine entity/God/etc. etc.

I hope this helps!

I have never suggested that I support/condone or submit to any school of thought who issue fatwas declaring anyone kaffirs. Similarly, I do not endorse, support or condone any of the laws which are in place presently that encourage ppl to persecute ppl that are considered to be non-Muslims under the so called laws.

nikki,
could not have agreed more. i think sociologists should start studying whether there is ANY nation in the world where muslims if they are not in a majority are at peace with people of other communities.

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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_31-10-2003_pg3_7

[The cruel fact behind this conversion is that ‘khatam-e-nabuwwat` gatherings in various parts of Pakistan constantly threaten the Qadianis with vigilante action while the National Assembly literally serves as the whistle-blower on low-level government employees who still happen to be Qadianis]

Daily Times, Pakistan
Friday, October 31, 2003

Convert Or Face Violence!
By Khaled Ahmed

While there is rampant sectarianism in evidence in Pakistan, there is also a subliminal pressure on the sects to convert to the mainstream. When members of other sects or religious communities convert under conditions of duress there is much jubilation among the orthodox, which is allowed to be expressed in the Urdu press. But are such conversions, whenever they happen, really genuine?

According to ‘Nawa-e-Waqt` (3 October 2003) religious leaders gathered in Chiniot- Chenabnagar for ‘khatam-e-nabuwwat` accused the government of being soft on Qadianis who were being employed in key posts (kaleedi) and even posted in the Auqaf Department. They said the Qadianis were busy conspiring against Islam and were freely violating laws enforced against them. The conference was addressed by Maulana Fazlur Rehman of JUI and Liaquat Baloch of Jama`at-e Islami in addition to dozens of other religious leaders. According to ‘Jang`, the Chenabnagar meeting warned the government that the Qadianis had become emboldened (hauslay barh gayay). They also said that behind the façade of the NGOs, the spread of Qadiani faith, Judaism and Christianity would not be tolerated and that a movement could be launched against the government on it.

There are severe disabilities imposed on the Qadianis. They were apostatised under a PPP majority in parliament and General Zia then compounded the deed by barring them from saying the ‘kalima` and calling a mosque a mosque. There is a whole annual tome of trumped up court cases against them, which shock the outside world. There are many irrational sides to the state of Pakistan of which the persecution of the Qadianis is one. The ‘khatam-e-nabuwwat` tradition in the country generally serves to rouse the common man and make him feel disgruntled against an erring state that ``gives protection to a community that is conspiring with the Jews``. The noise made about the so-called ‘kaleedi` jobs has gone on even after the virtual ouster of the Qadianis from important areas of state employment. The National Assembly in its October session (27 October 2003) went into the question of minority representation in the bureaucracy and was told that there were two Qadianis and nine Christians in the culture ministry in the federal government. There was also news in the press (daily ‘Insaf`) the same day that a dozen members of the Qadiani community in Punjab had converted to Islam amid much merrymaking on the part of the Sunni community. The cruel fact behind this conversion is that ‘khatam-e-nabuwwat` gatherings in various parts of Pakistan constantly threaten the Qadianis with vigilante action while the National Assembly literally serves as the whistle-blower on low-level government employees who still happen to be Qadianis. The message is: convert or face violence.

Punishment for Apostates in Islamic Law
By Maulana Maudoodi

..... Whenever an Islamic revolution takes place, all non-practicing Muslims should, within one year, declare their turning away from Islam and get out of Muslim society. After one year all born Muslims will be considered Muslims. All Islamic laws will be enforced upon them. They will be forced to practice all of the obligatory duties (faraid) and optional duties (wajibat) of their religion and if anyone wishes to leave Islam, he will be executed. Every effort will be made to save as many people as possible from falling into lap of disbelief (kufr). But those who cannot be saved will be reluctantly separated from society forever. .....

Between 1984 and 1997, there have been over 3,000 cases against the Ahmadiyas under the law of blasphemy - the largest number, about 750 being under Section 295B. These 750 accused have been prosecuted for displaying the Kalima - the tenet which says, ``There is none worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah``. A hundred and forty were prosecuted under the blasphemy Section 296C. In 1989, the entire population of Rabwah, the Ahmadiya headquarters in Pakistan, was charged under the Pakistan Penal Code Section 298C which is a special anti-Ahmadiya law. During 1997, three Ahmadiyas were killed because of their faith; three others were sentenced to 25-year imprisonment and Rs 50,000 fine on a charge of blasphemy which was added six years after they were initially charged with preaching Ahmadi-yat; 32 were charged under anti-Ahmadiya and blasphemy laws, and 59 cases were registered on religious grounds (Source, HRCP Annual Reports 1996 and 1997).

DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
27 June 2002 Thursday 15 Rabi-us-Saani 1423

Letter To The Editor

Religious declaration
by M. KHALIL SHEIKH, Rabwah, Pakistan

Leaders of various religious parties on the Mutahidda Majlis Amal platform gave a deadline for the reintroduction of a religious declaration by all Muslim voters. The threat worked and the very next day, the reintroduction of the religious form was announced by the government.

Now, every Muslim voter has to sign a form in which abusive language is used against the Ahmadiya sect and its founder. And if any citizen of Pakistan does not submit this religious declaration, he will not be regarded a Muslim and his name will be included in the non-Muslim list of voters.

Apart from this, Maulana Fazlur Rahman of the MMA has also called upon his followers to send him the names of Qadianis occupying `key posts`, so that he could get them removed. One may ask the Maulana Sahib as to what he means by `key posts`. Even a chowkidar can be said to be holding a sensitive post because no `sahib bahadur` can enter his office unless his peon/ chowkidar unlocks the door/ gate with the keys in his possession.

Let Maulana Sahib know that unlike his ancestors, the Ahmadiyia community had voted for the creation of a Muslim-majority independent Pakistan and since then not a single instance can be cited in which an Ahmadi was given a job on the basis of his sect or faith.

Let it also be known that ever since the Ahmadi/ Qadiani citizens were constitutionally declared `non-Muslims for the purposes of law`, not a single Ahmadi resident of Rabwah has been given any job in its town committee. Rabwah town has more than 50,000 residents, of which 95 per cent are Ahmadis, but their daily life is put to hardships of various kinds by the maulvis of other towns.

It is quite ridiculous for any State to define who does and does not belong to any religion. If this law is followed, then Sunnis will not be Muslims in Pakistan, if their population decreases to say 1% of the total population. Religion, then becomes a function of power of majority.

This does not mean that at an individual level, one must be forced to accept another reliigion or sect in a manner that is not acceptable to one. If some person does not consider Shias, or Sunnis or Ahmedis to be Muslims, it is her/his right not to do so. No one can nor should stop her/him. What she/he cannot do is enforce this outside his own personal sphere.

If you don`t consider Sunnis to be Muslims, don`t marry your daughters to them. Fine. But don`t try to get the State to declare them non-Muslims also.

I really don`t know whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not. The politically correct thing to say would be that they are. The mullah-ly correct thing to say is that they aren`t. I really don`t know. Maybe they are and maybe they aren`t. There is obviously a distinct difference in what they believe, and what I believe. But does than make them non-Muslim? Who knows, maybe it makes me non-Muslim. Then again, maybe it makes them non-Muslims.

The main point is that whether I believe or do not believe Ahmedis or anyone else to be Muslims, is my opinion. I can believe it, but I cannot dictate it on others. What if tomorrow I end up in a country filled with Ahmedis and they declare me non-Muslim? That right should be left to God. Let him decide. Why the hell should I bother about it?

If the State starts declaring people Muslims or not, then where do we stop? Urstruly and Naqshbandi both believe Ahmedis are non-Muslims. However, Urstruly believes in Shia-Sunni unity, where Naqshbandi believes Shias are a cause of trouble also. So how in the world are Urstruly and Naqshbandi going to survive together, once they get beyond their common union regarding Ahmedis?

Musharraf is the best thing that has happened to religious minorities in Pakistan, since Jinnah.......My suggestion to them would be to stick with him. The other major parties will shift with the wind, as it suits them...........

Hellbound (#18):

Root cause of persecution of Ahmadis is old-fashioned bigotry. If not, then one can also argue that Muhammad was persecuted from otherwise peaceful Meccans for downplaying the need for worshipping idols. You shouldn’t blame the Meccans … you know … Muhammad too really asked for it …

When it comes to fatwas of kuffr … mullah is only one animal. Some of the self-proclaimed educated Muslims nurture this fetish as well. This obsession is somewhat of a singularity point … where claims to tolerance breakdown … off come the gloves … and off come the masks of civility. “Only-I-got-it-right” attitude is used to launch declarations of kuffr … as one continues to decay intellectually.

As for the prophethood issue … here are my views …

1. Quran and ahadith leave no doubt in my mind about continuation of prophethood (yes, you read this right … no doubt about continuation of prophethood …)

2. More importantly, one should interpret Quran/ahadith as it makes sense to him. However, there is no room for fatwas of kuffr. As the author pointed out, Quran forbids even Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from declaring others as non-Muslims.

This is totally outrageous. Coming from a conservative Sunni family, I have been having fierce debates over this issue with many people. For me, religion can mean something different at different points of time, ranging from nothing to a certain kind of romantic spirituality to something cultural, but never a form of extremist fundamentalism. I get offended by the thing that I am forced by the state not only to declare my religious affiliations, but also to declare whether someone else is a Muslim or not. Some of my very good friends belong to the mentioned sect, and I am surprised that in spite of this nonsense, they are still very attached with Pakistan. Thanks.

DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
31 January, 2001

[The basic consideration as to who and what constitutes a real Muslim is being disputed all the time. I am a Muslim today but there is no guarantee that I shall continue to be acknowledged as one tomorrow.]

Creating new minorities
By Hafizur Rahman

..... Apart from hearing from some ulema how the mere addition of religion on a citizen`s national identity card would weld the masses together into one nation for the first time in the country`s history, we had Dr Israr Ahmed of the Tanzeem-e-Islami solving the minorities problem for ever by suggesting the imposition of jazia tax on them. There have been other outlandish ideas too but these two were truly unbeatable.

Jazia, as you will recall, was an institution of the Islamic state whereby its non-Muslim citizens paid a certain tax into the treasury to ensure their protection. They were not required to pay zakat and other dues like Muslims. I think the last time this happened in this part of the world was in the time of Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb who tried to prove
that there could be an Islamic state even if its Muslim population was in a minority.

Of course there is no such problem now. Muslims are in an overwhelming majority in Pakistan, though the way some fanatics want it, this majority may no longer remain overwhelming. The basic consideration as to who and what constitutes a real Muslim is being disputed all the time. I am a Muslim today but there is no guarantee that I shall continue to be acknowledged as one tomorrow.

Dr Israr Ahmed made the proposal about jazia more than two years ago but has not repeated it, publicly at least. Maybe he has changed his mind. Anyway, if he were to come into power somehow and did impose the jazia on non-Muslims, that would not exclude the possibility of some ulema demanding that since, for some odd reason, he was not sufficiently Muslim, he too should pay that tax.

It`s like this. The Ahmedis have already been pushed out of the pale of Islam. But they were never in large numbers anyway. Now the Anjuman Sipah-e-Sahaba insists that the Shias should be treated likewise. Moreover if you accept the contention of some members of the JUI, anyone subscribing to the views of Maulana Maudoodi is a kafir, a heretic. Many other religious parties and sects say the same about one another. After the final elimination, therefore, may be hardly anyone is left in Pakistan called Muslim by anyone except himself.

But in that case a rarity might be President/Prime Minister Israr Ahmed himself. A combination of forces, say a political-cum-clerical alliance, may then lay down that if he wants to remain the top man of the country he must start paying jazia. And, horror of horrors! the good doctor may agree to do so, under protest of course.

I don`t know how much the jazia amounts to but I`m told it isn`t much for an individual to pay. Zakat too is not much, but look at the billions the government is able to amass through its imposition via banks and savings institutions. In fact, with the majority of the population having been declared non-Muslim, jazia could become the biggest source of revenue, if the ruling regime were to give up its secular ideas about managing Pakistan.

All that the government would have to do would be to encourage the official labelling of as many sects and groups as non-Muslim as possible. This should not be difficult, considering the enthusiasm with which we are ready to declare everybody else as kafir. The result would be the generation of such a colossal amount as jazia tax that even the depredations of corrupt and rapacious collectors would be unable to make a sizable dent in it.

As an aside on the position of minorities in this country, it is interesting to imagine what might have been. Let us visualize the state of affairs that would have prevailed if mass migrations had not taken place in 1947, since they were not on the cards at all. Hindus and Sikhs would have comprised a sizable percentage of present Pakistan and almost 40 per cent of our Punjab`s population.

Lahore would still be substantially owned by Pakistani Hindus, while Lyallpur and Rawalpindi would have been economically dominated by Pakistani Sikhs. Lahore in Pakistan and Amritsar in India would have been like twin cities. Of course there would have been a host of problems - very serious and complex problems - occasioned by a large section of the people being hostile to the very idea of Pakistan, but we might have been spared the induction of new minorities into our system which sectarianism among Muslims is now promoting.

Continuing this conjecture to the political field, we might have had, once in a while, a Sikh as chief minister of Punjab. After all, a handful of anti-Muslim League legislators did sustain a Unionist ministry in the province, with the help of Hindu and Sikh members, in the years before partition. And this had happened when, for more than two years, the largest single party in the Punjab Assembly was the Muslim League. coalitions can do the strangest things.

In the event the declaration of Pakistan as an Islamic state may have been difficult, and its non-Muslims would certainly have resisted the imposition of jazia and resorted to non-payment through civil disobedience. But there was nothing to stop us Muslims from declaring one or more of our sects as kafir, thus ending in the fantastic, though not impossible, situation of leaving true Muslims as a hapless minority in Pakistan.

As we savour the trite, hackneyed and puerile messages of government and political leaders on our national days (or on any other bright day that they think is good for a message) let us also give a thought to what might have been, as detailed by me in the above paragraphs. Most of all, let us not do anything to encourage the

I cannot think of any innocent explanation for the fact that Pakistan`s ruling elite cannot live in peace with the claims of decent God-fearing Ahmadiyas to be Muslims. As far as I am concerned, a just God would rather count men like Zafrulla Khan and Prof. Abdus Salam among the faithful than scoundrels like ``Field Marshal`` Ayub Khan and Generals Tikka Khan, Yahya Khan, Zia ul-Huq and Pervez Musharraf. I`ll be wary of any human being who would indulge in theological hair-splitting in an attempt to ``prove`` the opposite.

Isphahani Sahib (#13) ...

… your proposal does not go far enough …

… while the government should take the halafnama from each person … in person … it should also stamp on the person’s forehead if he is truly on the path of righteousness, or not. This will cut down long lines and bureaucracy on judgment day. Green stamp – meet the virgins … red stamp – go suck mud.

Of course, this plan will need to be scrapped altogether if Gabriel turns out to be colorblind …

++++++

Paradox,

… your point is spot on …
… this is what Ahmadis believe … precisely … precisely …

Being a non-beleiver this issue has no emotional siginificance for me but only for the sake of argument I would like to share my review and I apologize beforehand, to anyone who is offended.
Why were prophets sent?Obviously whenever there was evil and people reached a certain threshold of evil,which only God know, the prophets were sent to warn the people and show them the right path. The question is,why stop the process? Has the evil been defeated, I would say quite conterary to that,it has grown more and at the present age it has gone out of proportion. Rationally speaking, now is the time, more than ever for God to sent as much prophets as possible. I dont see any reason or harm in that and to me that is the logical course of action. In Old testement there were maney prophets even at the same time in differnt neighbourhoods so why cant we have some in this present age.
One becomes a muslim by beliveing``There is no god but ALLAH and Mohammad is his messenger`` There is no mention of the last prophet and it was added in the mainstream after the death of the prophet to counter the so called false prophets who were tying to make claims to prophethood. As for me, there is no harm is having new prophets OR it might me that God has lost his hope in mankind and finally turned his back on us.

Being a non-beleiver this issue has no emotional siginificance for me but only for the sake of argument I would like to share my review and I apologize beforehand, to anyone who is offended.
Why were prophets sent?Obviously whenever there was evil and people reached a certain threshold of evil,which only God know, the prophets were sent to warn the people and show them the right path. The question is,why stop the process? Has the evil been defeated, I would say quite conterary to that,it has grown more and at the present age it has gone out of proportion. Rationally speaking, now is the time, more than ever for God to sent as much prophets as possible. I dont see any reason or harm in that and to me that is the logical course of action. In Old testement there were maney prophets even at the same time in differnt neighbourhoods so why cant we have some in this present age.
One becomes a muslim by beliveing``There is no god but ALLAH and Mohammad is his messenger`` There is no mention of the last prophet and it was added in the mainstream after the death of the prophet to counter the so called false prophets who were tying to make claims to prophethood. As for me, there is no harm is having new prophets OR it might me that God has lost his hope in mankind and finally turned his back on us.

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kaurasach (#11):

Main points of Ahmadi-Muslim beliefs are as follows:

Belief in Islam
We believe in Almighty Allah and all the tenets of Muslim faith. These include Muslim faith as prescribed by Quran, 5 daily prayers (plus additional prayers), paying zaakat, fasting during Ramzan, and performing Haj (pilgrimage to Mecca).

Completeness of Divine Law in the form of Quran
Islam is the complete, final religion from Allah Almighty, as revealed in Quran, through Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Continuation of prophethhood after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
Allah will raise prophets as needed to guide people back to the message of Islam. These prophets will hold Quran as their foremost guide. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib of Qadian (1835-1908) was one such prophet.

Demise of Prophet Issa (pbuh)
Prophet Issa (pbuh) was not lifted up to the skies. He was put on the cross, but survived. He recovered, migrated to India, and is buried in Kashmir (district Srinagar).

Miracles and laws of physics
No miracles mentioned in Quran were against laws of nature. Incorrect interpretation of “miracles” has led to the perception that laws of nature were violated by prophets (prophets raising the dead, parting oceans, flying above clouds, etc.).

Jihad and world peace
Jihad means to strive for peace in our lives and in our communities. Islam allows armed conflicts strictly for defensive purposes against invading, unjust armies. In this day and age, emphasis needs to be on education, understanding, and adherence to principles of peace outlined in Quran. None of this can be accomplished without harmony between different faiths and nations. Achieving this harmony is the main objective of jihad. There is absolutely no room for suicide bombings, destruction of temples and churches, harassment or persecution of people of other faiths, etc. Every individual should have full freedom to practice his faith in a peaceful manner.

``can be sentenced to death (under Section 295-C of Pakistan Penal Code) if they dare use Islamic expressions like Asslam-o-Alaikum, Bismillah and Insallah. ``

Does not the hindu cricket player danish say inshallah in public on TV? Is that an offense?

Also, can anyone clarify what is the position of Ahmedias in India (i dont think they exist anywhere else much). Are they under mulsim civil code? Are they shunned by other muslims?

#14, Nazarhayatkhan:
Yours is the only sensible statement. When will the dimwits - the most charitable interpretation for the secessionists - realize that they shall have to pay for the nefarious philosophy and obsession leading to the division of India?

I am waiting for the day when Sunnis and Shias of each town will demuslim each other!!

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with dure respect: the contemporary understanding of all religions is confusing. islam is also in the circle. every now and then we hear that islam is the religion of peace and peace is the ONLY thing that`s missing from islamic history!

i am a muslim for i was born one. what other credit do i have to claim about it. simple!

the fear of The Unseen is in my mind and heart while all that happens around me is exactly against what The Unseen has asked us to do. He sits up in heavens and smiles...and i dont know if He exists or not with all those legendary powers that He`s famous for.

today the press carried the picture of a two-and-a-half years` old baby-girl who was raped, yes raped. who should i congratulate here...ISLAMIC republic of pakistan or God Himself for he keeps his powers to use i-dont-know-when and humanity suffers!

mind boils and bubbles...

with dure respect: the contemporary understanding of all religions is confusing. islam is also in the circle. every now and then we hear that islam is the religion of peace and peace is the ONLY thing that`s missing from islamic history!

i am a muslim for i was born one. what other credit do i have to claim about it. simple!

the fear of The Unseen is in my mind and heart while all that happens around me is exactly against what The Unseen has asked us to do. He sits up in heavens and smiles...and i dont know if He exists or not with all those legendary powers that He`s famous for.

today the press carried the picture of a two-and-a-half years` old baby-girl who was raped, yes raped. who should i congratulate here...ISLAMIC republic of pakistan or God Himself for he keeps his powers to use i-dont-know-when and humanity suffers!

mind boils and bubbles...

I totally agree with Urstruly about Ahmadis` continued claim to be a Muslim, is the root cause of the so-called persecution of Ahmadis. It is not a matter of interpretation, it is a matter of fact. To be considered a Muslim you have to accept Mohammad as the last prophet, as long as you do that, you can go on calling yourself x,y,z sect of Muslims, but as long as you don`t change the fundamentals, no one has any objection to your sect, etc.

Same is true for Christianity or for Judaism for that matter the fundamentals have remained unchanged, interpretation or rituals may vary.

All this drivel about Pakistan`s creation, secularism, Bhutto, and Zia is irrelevant when applied to Ahmadis. They need to come to terms with the fact that Muslims shall not accept them as a sect and therefore they should get on with their lives as Hindus, Christians, and other miniorities do in Pakistan.

For all the Pakistani bashers, the liberal Pakistanis included, digging up odd cases to make a point is really far from reality. The reality is that most Pakistanis do not give a damn about the next person`s ethnicity, religion, or color, as most of us are too damn busy to earn a living for ourselves. It is only the Sharif and Sethis of the world that have time to indulge in such frivilous things.

Like someone said on another thread about sectarain violence, no sectarian divide exists at people to people level. It exists in the media, extremist/fundo/terrorist pockets of the socity and should not be taken as a rule but rather an exception.

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Ralph # 1

(The most charitable thing that can be said about this article is that this is a silly lament)

We need to not only keep this issue alive but criticize it again and again. Nothing less than our safety and our next generation`s safety depends on it.

Is there need to define one`s belief? There are as many variations of beliefs as there are human beings on the earth.

Wahabis and Deobandis do not hold a Certificate to define a Muslim. Justice Munir in the famous Qadiani case of the 50s failed to find a definition of a Muslim.

The code of law that a society makes for its day to day living should have no reference to one`s personal belief. It is matter between a person and his God, Allah, Bhagwan or concious.

It started with Suadi Arabia and Pakistan who first ostracized the Ahmedies.

Now there is a segment in Pakistan that calls Shias as Kaafirs.

Qazi hussain Ahmed has already hinted at the Agha Khanis not being Muslims.

Soon people like me who follow no ritual of Islam (or any other religion) will be called Kaafirs.

Finally, people who do not dress like the Arabs will be called Kaafirs. Many Mullas in Pakistan have already started wearing the Arab dress.

Hopefully, I will be dead by that time!

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http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=182

Religion and the Constitution: The Triumph of Practical Politics

`` The most sustained religious discussion in these huge volumes has to do with the line in Article VI of the Constitution that ``no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.`` Luther Martin, a fierce opponent of ratification, reported that the ``no religious test`` clause easily had passed at Philadelphia, but went on sarcastically:

``However, there were some members so unfashionable as to think that a belief of the existence of a Deity, and of a state of future rewards and punishments would be some security for the good conduct of our rulers, and that in a Christian country it would be at least decent to hold out some distinction between the professors of Christianity and downright infidelity or paganism.``

The most notable New England Baptist, Isaac Backus, opposed such a test, stating that ``no man or men can impose any religious test, without invading the essential prerogatives of our Lord Jesus Christ.`` William Williams, a Connecticut signer of the Declaration of Independence, wrote in the American Mercury that he wished the clause could have been omitted, and even would have liked to have voted for its reverse, ``to require an explicit acknowledgment of the being of a God, his perfections and his providence,`` and an italicized affirmation of God in the preamble to the Constitution. Williams says he knows that such a phrase would have produced hypocrites and have provided no security, but he wished it were there simply as a public testimony.

On the other hand, Oliver Ellsworth takes three pages to defend the Article VI clause as not being ``unfavourable to religion.`` It was designed ``to exclude persecution`` and to secure ``the important right of religious liberty.`` English law and practice show the evils that would threaten were the clause not here. ``A test in favour of any one denomination of Christians would be to the last degree absurd in the United States.`` Even a test-act that required officeholders to declare ``their belief in the being of a God, and in the divine authority of the scriptures,`` would not have satisfied, since it is easy to dissemble. ``If we mean to have those appointed to public offices who are sincere friends to religion; we the people who appoint them, must take care to choose such characters; and not rely upon such cob-web barriers as test-laws are.

``Henry Abbott and James Iredell returned to the issue in a report from the North Carolina Convention. Abbott stated that some feared that without religious tests, ``Pagans, Deists, and Mahometans might obtain offices among us,`` and that legislators might some day ``all be Pagans.`` Without religious texts, would oaths of office be taken ``by Jupiter, Juno, Minerva, Proserpine or Pluto``? Iredell responded, referring to the ``dreadful mischiefs`` and ``utmost cruelties`` that had occurred ``under the colour of religious texts`` throughout history. America had already chosen a more modest, reasonable and tolerant course. Iredell asks, ``How is it possible to exclude any set of men, without taking away that principle of religious freedom which we ourselves so warmly contend for?`` But he concludes, ``It is never to be supposed that the people of America will trust their dearest rights to persons who have no religion at all, or a religion materially different from their own.`` Let religion be permitted to take its own course; ``the divine author of our religion never wished for its support by worldly authority.``

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DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
17 January 2002 Thursday 02 Ziqa`ad 1422

Excerpt from:

The general`s speech: a US perspective
By Tahir Mirza

...In this connection, an e-mail from a young Pakistani woman living in the Gulf may be of some relevance. Writing how thrilled she was to hear of the general`s emphasis on eliminating extremism, she said: ``But I fail to understand why, when the other day, I filled in an application form at the Pakistan embassy for my passport renewal, I had to declare on this that I do not consider Ahmadis to be Muslims. I signed for the sake of obtaining my passport, but I do think it a most demeaning and shameful thing for anyone truly moderate and Muslim to do.``

Why, indeed, are we expected to make this declaration on our forms if all citizens are considered equal and we are expected to be a tolerant Muslim society?...

A lasting legacy of Bhutto`s ``Concordat`` with the religious right are the laws in Pakistan that have turned Ahmadiyyas into second class citizens. An Ahmadiyya can be prosecuted for the ``criminal offence`` of calling himself a Muslim or for referring to his place of worship as a Masjid! In fact, he can be prosecuted for pretending to be a Muslim if he dares recite the kalima!! All that is deemed blasphemy, a capital offence under Pakistan`s penal code.

The Ahmadiyyas belong to an ``unpopular`` sect within Islam. Their plight is indicative of the change that must occur for Pakistan to triumph over the politics of terror. Pakistani establishment members show very little respect and immense contempt and hatred for Ahmadiya citizens, even if they are as patriotic and as talented as Dr. Abdus Salam, the only Pakistani to date to win a Nobel Prize.

It might not be easy even for the Pakistani dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, to stem the tide against Ahmadiyas in Pakistan itself. He has failed to repeal the infamous Blasphemy Law in spite of having declared once that he intends to do so. But a strong nudge from the General`s allies abroad might just give him the courage to do the needful.

In the mean time, one might call attention to an outrage that is being perpetrated on the Ahmadiyas this minute even on American soil by the Pakistani Embassy and Consulates. I hope patriots and thoughtful Pakistanis will take the lead to do something about the outrage. I hope they can persuade the Pakistani Embassy and the Consulates to withdraw the obnoxious passport application form and introduce a new form that does not attempt to humiliate the Ahmadiyas in the name of ``purity of religion.``

Here is the application Form for new passport (Form A) that Pakistanis must fill out not only in Pakistan but even at the Pakistani embassy and the consulates in USA.

Interested readers can check the complete application form at the following website:

http://www.embassyofpakistan.org/forms/Form-A.pdf

Diplomatic immunity perhaps prevents the American government from barring the Pakistani embassy and the consulates from using such a blatantly offensive application form. However, adverse publicity and public pressure from patriotic and thoughtful Pakistanis can yet force a change on the embassy and consulates.

Item 5 in the Application Form is religion.

The choices offered to the applicant are listed as ``Islam, Christian, Hindu, Parsi etc.``

In case the applicant writes ``Muslim`` as his choice, he is required to sign or to give a thumb impression to the following Declaration in item 15:

I.......... W/D/S/O..........aged..........years, adult Muslim resident of..........hereby solemnly
declare that:

(i)I am a Muslim and believe in absolute and unqulified finality of the prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) the last of the prophets.

(ii)I do not recognize any person who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever after Muhammad (PBUH) or recognize such a claimant as prophet or a religious reformer as a Muslim.

(iii)I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Quadiani to be an impostor nabi and also consider his followers whether belonging to the Lahori or Quadiani group, to be non-Muslim.

It shows how low Pakistan`s government has been willing to stoop to spite the Ahmadiyyas.

Rabwah in Pakistani Punjab is an important center of the persecuted sect. 96% the residents of Rabwah are Ahmadiyas. But, not a single Ahmadiyya can contest the local polls because under Pakistan`s law the contestant must certify that he is not an Ahmadiya.

And of course the Ahmadiyas are barred by law from ``pretending`` to be Muslims. They can call themselves Muslims or describe their place of worship as a mosque only at the risk of being sent to prison for extended periods. Reciting the Kalima can lead to being hauled to a court of law on charges of blasphemy which is a capital offense in Pakistan.

Is it any wonder that the world has come to identify Pakistan as a haven of terrorists? It is not enough for General Musharraf to mouth pious objectives in TV speeches meant for western consumption. He will be doing a lot more for his country if he acts courageously to eliminate all Pakistani laws and government regulations that victimize citizens for their religious beliefs. Deletion of religion in National ID cards and Passports is also a must.

According to the Book of Genesis, God placed a mark on the world`s first murderer before sending him into exile. The mark of Cain proclaimed its bearer as a criminal and social outcast. For centuries, prisoners and those who broke social codes were forcibly tattooed.

Pakistan`s ruling elite has put the mark of Cain on the nation`s hapless Ahmadiyyas. In fact, it is verily the kiss of death for one`s career even to be suspected of being a closet Ahmadiyya. Not too long ago, the front-runner among candidates for the Chief Justice of Pakistan had to publicly deny rumors that he was a closet Ahmadiyya (floated around by his rivals & detractors) to keep alive his candidacy!

Difficult as it is to believe, in this day and age, there is a country where, under the law of the land, it is unlawful for members of a persecuted community to call themseves ``Muslims``. The five million members of the community in that country are not allowed into mosques and are prosecuted if they say Islamic prayers.

No, I am not talking of the ``Great Satan`` USA or even of much maligned Israel. I am talking of Pakistan where Muslims of the Ahmadiyya sect can be sentenced to death (under Section 295-C of Pakistan Penal Code) if they dare use Islamic expressions like Asslam-o-Alaikum, Bismillah and Insallah.

Sections 295-A and 298-C allow the state to put away an Ahmadiyya in prison for as long as 10 years if he dares to call himself a Muslim. And it is quite according to the laws of the land for the authorities to demolish the Ahmadiyyas` place of worship if they dare call it a mosque. Five million Ahmadiyyas in Pakistan must live under the shadow of laws undreamt of even by blacks in South Africa during their darkest hours.

In Pakistan the law of the land very specifically bars non-Muslims from the highest positions in the land. In fact, it is not enough to be a Muslim, you must be so certified by the country`s ruling elite to qualify for the positions.

Nobel Laureate Abdus Salam, for example, was not entitled to be a Presidential candidate. As an Ahmadiyya, he was a mere Kafir according to Pakistani law.

When USA recommended an alumnus of the World Bank for succeeding Nawaz Sarif after his first stint as the Prime Minister, the ablest among the alumni had to be bypassed for he, too, was an Ahmadiyya. And earlier, when Benazir Bhutto, as Pakistan`s Prime Minister, had attempted to post a Ahmadiyya as Pakistan`s top diplomat at the United Nations, she was roundedly accused of being an infidel by the press and the political establishment. The diplomat was soon found dead in a Tokyo hotel under mysterious circumstances. Benazir, herself, was dismissed by President Ishaq Khan soon after.

In Pakistan, even the mere rumor that one is an Ahmadiyya can ruin a person. Some years back, when the office of the Chief Justice for the Supreme Court of Pakistan fell vacant, the nominating process said a lot about the guiding philosophy of ``Islamic`` Pakistan:

When the office fell vacant, the senior most judge took over as the acting Chief Justice and everyone assumed that he would soon be confirmed to the post. But the judge had enemies who promptly spread the rumor that he was a closet Ahmadiyya. The acting Chief Justice denied vehemently that he had ever been an Ahmadiyya or ever will be one. But the damage was done. A junior judge was appointed the Chief Justice and the alleged Ahmadiyya was forced to resign from the Bench!!

Not even death will bring reprieve. Benazir Bhutto`s interior minister, General Naseerullah Babar, for example, came under nasty attack for merely attending the Namaz-e-Janaza of his Ahmadiyya friend, Mumtaz Ahmed Malik.

Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmed (the spiritual head of the Ahmadiyyas) used to visit India anytime he wanted to. But, understandably, he never dared to visit Pakistan.

When Najam Sethi (editor of The Friday Times) was hauled to court, accused of being a closet Ahmadiyya even after he declared himself to be a Sunni Muslim:

---

DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
1st August, 1999

Excerpt from Ardeshir Cowasjee`s Column:

..... The latest government move is a petition filed before the Chief Election Commissioner by Syed Zafar Ali Shah, a member of the National Assembly. MNA Shah is one of those who offer themselves up on a platter to Nawaz Sharif as willing tools to do his every bidding. Shah was one of the hecklers in former Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah`s courtroom the day prior to the storming of that honourable institution by the government goons.

Shah`s petition ``involves the jurisdiction of the Chief Election Commissioner for the following reliefs:

``1) Firstly, the religious status of the Respondent No.1 be determined on the touchstone of the definition of `Muslim` and `non-Muslim` given in Article 260(3).

``2) Secondly, his name be struck off from the voter list to a Muslim seat of any Assembly if he is so listed and does not fulfil the requiremnents of a Muslim as given by the Constitution.

``3) Thirdly, his name be struck off from the electoral rolls to a non-Muslim seat as well since he has violated Article 63(1)(g) and Article 62(h). ``

Absurd, said many of us, including my senior counsel, Jadoogar of Jeddah, Syed Sharifuddin Pirzada: the Chief Election Commissioner, an independent-minded man, will throw the petition out in limine. The CEC ruled otherwise and held a hearing on July 28. Present in Islamabad before him that day were not just members of the press and public but representatives of the diplomatic corps of First World countries who believe that religion is solely a matter between a man and his God, who were keen to observe how God is invoked in the courts of Pakistan and how the seeds of a religious inquisition are being sown. .....

..... Sharifuddin`s opinion is that the CEC has no jurisdiction to go into the question as to whether Sethi is a Muslim or not, particularly after Sethi`s public pronouncement that he is a Sunni Muslim. He told me how, when he was law minister a question arose about the elevation of a judge to the Supreme Court as an allegation had been made that he was an Ahmadi. The judge concerned wrote a letter to the law minister stating that he was a practising Muslim and the matter ended there. All concerned were satisfied and the judge was duly elevated to the Supreme Court.

Sethi is also being savaged by the hounds of the income tax department. His home has been attached and some 90 old settled cases have been reopened and queries raised and charges levied. I sympathize with him. .....

---

The HINDU
Thursday, July 29, 1999

Najam Sethi`s status as Muslim challenged

ISLAMABAD, JULY 28. The Pakistani Chief Election Commissioner, Mr. Justice Abdul Qadeer Chaudhury (retd.), adjourned till October 6 an application filed by Mr. Syed Zafar Ali Shah, a ruling party MP, challenging the status of The Friday Times editor, Mr. Najam Sethi, as a Muslim.

Mr. Sethi, who has been the target of vendetta and found himself incarcerated for a month in May for making a ``seditious speech`` in India, defended himself in person before the CEC.

The challenge to Mr. Sethi`s status as a Muslim comes at a time when he has been charged with all manner of income tax violations. Though all charges were dropped against the editor after he was illegally arrested, it is obvious that influential circles continue to harass him. The application wants that Mr. Sethi`s name be deleted from the list of Muslim voters in Pakistan.

During the hearing today, Mr. Sethi said he had filled in forms for his passport and national identity card declaring himself to be a Muslim. He wanted to know whether the status of 130 million Pakistanis as Muslims could be individually challenged before the CEC. The editor asked the CEC to dismiss the application.

Mr. Justice Chaudhury, however, stated that he would like to settle the issue of jurisdiction once and for all and then consider the merits of the present case.For this, Mr. Sethi will now appear through counsel on October 6.

In an editorial entitled ``Why this vendetta?``, the newspaper Dawn said today: ``The petition filed by a member of the ruling party raising issues of such a sensitive nature and accusing Mr. Sethi of being a non-Muslim will be seen as proof that the Government has not given up its hostile attitude towards him and is determined to punish him for his dissenting role as a journalist.``

The Harvard Human Rights Journal (Volume 16, Spring 2003)

``Persecution of the Ahmadiyya Community in Pakistan: An Analysis Under International Law and International Relations`` by Amjad Mahmood Khan.

Urstruly (#2) …

Simple explanation … we call ourselves Muslims, since that is the name given to us by Allah Almighty in Quran.

As for you mullahs … you get hurt over the oddest issues. You get hurt, nay seriously offended and fuming mad, if someone decides to leave your religion. This obviously is your problem … and not others’.

Also … in my view, the shocking and sudden deaths of Bhutto and Zia (and that of Shah Faisal) are further signs of divine support …that enhance my faith in Allah and Islam.

The author has raised valid issues … that Islam cannot be copyrighted … that the term Muslim cannot be trademarked. Forcing a label on faiths of others amounts to an insult to God, to Islam, to humanity ... and leads people down the path of corruption and moral decay.

All of these problem can go away instantaneously if Quadianis stopped calling themselves `Muslims` and `Ahmadis`. I never understand why they are so ashamed of calling themseves Quadianis, Mirzais, or Lahori-Mirzais. Why they insist on hurting the feelings of millions of Muslims by calling themselves Muslims. Why they are so intolerant and apathetic towards the feelings of their fellow human beings? why?

The most charitable thing that can be said about this article is that this is a silly lament. You should not be surprised over any of this.